IT career

[Ggg]

Anyone have a child who obtained an IT job with an IT Associate degree and certificates? 

Or tell me about the IT path your child is pursuing....

DS just threw this at us...he would like to attend college his Sr. Yr of high school as a DE student to obtain his Associates in IT, this would put him one semester over his normal high school graduation date.  Do I just scrape his Sr. Yr classes and let him?

Thank you 

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What does he mean by IT?

There's IT which usually is about either Networking or CyberSecurity which includes a minimal amount of math and programming and is more practical for doing exactly one type of job.  

and then there is Computer Science (which may or may not be in the engineering department or Letters and Sciences) which includes a TON of math and computer programming and has to do with really being able to design, implement, and architect whole new systems...

And then there is Computer Engineering which also includes a TON of math and is usually having to do with hardware....

While somewhat limited and not 100% perfect this info-graph can help your son start thinking about it:

https://www.rasmussen.edu/degrees/technology/blog/it-vs-computer-science-degree-infographic/

Either way, even with the first option, a certificate in IT will not get you very far nowadays and is pretty worthless. If your son is motivated, and bright  and technical, and can handle the long haul he should get an ABET accredited IT degree from a public four year university.  

If he wants to start the process early, sure- skip senior year but just have him start on college maths and physics so that he can continue deciding whether he wants a more math-oriented and versatile degree or a more specific degree in IT/CyberSecurity/Networking. If it turns out he really hates all the math and doesn't love the creative aspect of programming and designing systems or hardware, then an IT degree would be better than Computer Science or Computer Engineering.  

I mean yes, on the easy coast and midwest, a certificate might get him an entry level job somewhere if he's bent on not going to a four year school and wants to work his way up the ladder, and budget well and purchase home in low COL area, this could be a possibility.  But it's not really a good goal if he can hang in there to get a four years or master's degree he should skip the certificate and just take some good DE classes and apply to a four year university.

 

Edited May 18, 2019 by Calming Tea

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also please note the college I pulled the link from, while may be good in other respects or circumstances is not ABET accredited and therefore not a good goal.  But the infographic is still pretty good.

[Lanny]

OP good advice above from Calming Tea.  If he does decide to go for a C.S. or other Major that is in the School/College of Engineering, that's a tough road. Not as hard as Medical School, but very tough.   If he does that, I echo the suggestion, strongly, that it be ABET accredited. 

[...................]

I just wanted to add, that he should definitely take Calculus and Physics DE and see how he does.  If he is completely sweating the both courses and scraping by with a C and feeling like he hates it, it'll give you guys an idea whether to go towards a four year IT degree or towards a four year CompSci/Engineering degree....

Even once he gets to the university if he is admitted for Comp Sci or Comp Engineering he will still have some "weed out" math classes freshman year and have to take a lot of math and keep up a high GPA to continue into the Junior year of CompSci/CompEngineering...usually after the "weed out" classes advisors will talk turkey with the students after freshman year and start them on the path of deciding whether their grades were low due to the adjustment to college life or if their abilities really aren't up to the task of Linear Algebra and Calc 3 and all.  Some students switch majors after freshman year and some during sophomore year and a LOT of students will switch from the CompSci/Eng track to the IT track....

But taking some Calculus and Physics at the college his senior year will help him decide 

[G5052]

I'm a professor of information technology and computer science at a state community college.

In my metropolitan area, indeed networks and cybersecurity are the only two-year degrees that are really employable. Certificates are for people who already have a degree and are adding in more capabilities. They really aren't stand-alone options because most employers in the tech industry here want at least a two-year degree. Some areas of the country are OK without the degree if you have certifications like Network+, Security+, etc., but not here.

I always tell parents to investigate a possible four-year before even enrolling at the two-year so that you can line things up so they transfer. Even if the kid says they don't plan it, do as much of that as you can.

My state has wonderful guaranteed admission agreements with nationally-ranked four-years. Both of my kids did that, and we saved a ton of money. One of mine had to take a few classes at a neighboring college as part of his two-year, but he went right into a selective program as a junior. My other one was able to take everything at the local community college and then transfer. The tuition at the community college is about 1/2 of the four year, and mine liked the smaller classes and being close to home. They live at home and take a commuter bus to the four-year.

In my area, computer science is the most employable degree, but it is a very rigorous program with a lot of math. I actually added a math major (double degree) when I realized that it was only three classes more. I had to take that much math. My undergraduate and graduate schools are ABET accredited. Very important if you are going to apply to national/international companies. It may not matter if you are just going to work for county government or a local business. 

The school my kids attend as a more tech-oriented information technology degree that is well thought of, and then they have a business information technology degree. Those are not as in demand as computer science but are still very strong degrees. 

[AEC]

<for context, I'm a hiring manager and tech lead at a big cloud computing company. That makes me somewhat biassed, but it also provides a glimpse into the IT/tech departments of my customers.>

I will strongly 2nd Calming Tea's advice.  Companies, even banks, health care, and government, are rapidly moving to the cloud which amounts to outsourcing and consolidating much of what was traditionally considered IT (networking, storage, backup, security, DBA, and similar).  The part of IT that looks like 'sysadmin' for individual users still exists, but can also be outsourced and has become less relevant over the past decade or two.

The job prospects for CS/ CSE in pretty much any sub-domain (networking, databases, storage systems, distributed computing, cad, ML, web programming, etc) are the best I've ever seen. It does generally take a 4-year degree and you do want it to be from an accredited university. There are of course exceptions, but where you get your degree and the grades you get while there will materially impact your job offers out of the gate.  After the first job, it matters quite a lot less.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, AEC said:

<for context, I'm a hiring manager and tech lead at a big cloud computing company. That makes me somewhat biassed, but it also provides a glimpse into the IT/tech departments of my customers.>

I will strongly 2nd Calming Tea's advice.  Companies, even banks, health care, and government, are rapidly moving to the cloud which amounts to outsourcing and consolidating much of what was traditionally considered IT (networking, storage, backup, security, DBA, and similar).  The part of IT that looks like 'sysadmin' for individual users still exists, but can also be outsourced and has become less relevant over the past decade or two.

The job prospects for CS/ CSE in pretty much any sub-domain (networking, databases, storage systems, distributed computing, cad, ML, web programming, etc) are the best I've ever seen. It does generally take a 4-year degree and you do want it to be from an accredited university. There are of course exceptions, but where you get your degree and the grades you get while there will materially impact your job offers out of the gate.  After the first job, it matters quite a lot less.

 

 

 

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding that all of this outsourcing also means, that if you DO get an IT job in say, Cybersecurity, you will be working your tail off and feel like a factory worker for a huge corporation that does exactly that one thing, and not likely to be involved in a lot of creative projects and launches, like you would with programming/engineering....I asked my son about it once and he laughed a maniacal laugh and said only if he wanted to lose his soul would he consider that...

It's a good paying job, but the facts are that it is generally not where you'll see employees getting free lunch, celebrating exciting launches and colorful hats and tee shirts...  that's where engineering and programming will take you. 🙂

If you want to be hands on in the field, your son could consider networking which is kind of cool because then at least you get to travel a lot and physically do stuff. 🙂 And not much math like CS/CS Eng...

[deerforest]

Lots of small companies still have need for IT folks. My husband works for a local food co-op. They have multiple locations locally and have 3 IT people. (He's worked for bigger companies in Silicon Valley and much prefers where he is now.) I'm a content manager for one of the largest networking companies so I work with people in all different types of roles.

There are tons of tech jobs that are between traditional IT person and computer programmer. Big companies always have a need for people like TMEs (technical marketing engineers) and trial engineers. Those folks tend to know a lot about technology like security, networking, etc. and aren't likely to be outsourced. 

Engineers at my company know their one piece of the product really well. They're not involved in making creative product decisions. That's product marketing or product management. Engineers can tell you how their one little piece of something is so important but they don't have the big picture. 

You don't have to be one of the software engineers to get free lunches, SWAG, etc. Good companies realize that folks in many different roles are critical to a successful product. I work from home full time so I miss out on all the free snacks, but even my on-site writers get them. 🙂 

[AEC]

I think that's a balanced prospective.  I don't want to paint an overly negative picture of 'IT' roles, and of course there's a broad spectrum across industries and locations.  But it's worth understanding the distinctions between those career paths and, say, software engineering.

If we're looking forward 10-30 years a lot of things will change due to consolidation (cloud is likely to become ubiquitous, even for small non-tech companies), commodification, and impact of ML.  I expect that much of marketing, SW test, and even SW development is going to end up automated by AI/ML.  Which mostly means that anyone considering a tech-adjacent field should expect to be continuously training and upgrading their skills for the duration of their career.

[katilac]

On 5/18/2019 at 8:22 AM, Ggg said:

Do I just scrape his Sr. Yr classes and let him?

Personally, I would not. Is there a reason he can't start part-time?