Video says:Breast is best research is faulty

[Ausmumof3]

On 5/12/2019 at 8:00 AM, Mergath said:

 

Citing sources when asked is silly? If you're going to make an outlandish argument like "Formula feeding causes harm to babies," you'd better have some sources to back it up if you expect anyone to take you seriously. Because I've never seen a single health organization say that formula is hurting babies in the developed world. Science isn't decided on the gut feelings of homeschooling moms.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2812877/

this one?

to be honest I’m somewhat reluctant to share because I don’t want to make anyone feel bad about their way of feeding their baby but it seems like there’s a whole discussion around how this topic is presented currently.

[mumto2]

4 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

And not even wealth is needed to make a difference in IQ.  Cause there are plenty of people with high IQ whose families were poor or like my husband's lower working class. But the differences that I have noticed is that the parents are highly intelligent ( though may have other personality aspects or circumstances that keep them from better employment, like my in-laws.)

I always laughed at those claims about breastfeeding and IQ.  We are plenty happy with the IQs we ended up with.

Immunity and gut bacteria are the real issues.   I do not know and no one knows if my family's fantastic awful luck w autoimmune issues have to do w/ no breastfeeding or maybe intergenerational curse of extreme hardships( yes, there are a number of good studies that are seeming to statistically making a connection) or overuse of antibiotics or too many infections or little green men or ,,,,,,,

 

Regarding the gut issues.......the program I volunteered for had frequent Saturday lunch lectures for the moms who worked for them.  This was 19 years ago, so no notes, but we had a specialist on gut issues in infants speaking and what I took away was how important waiting to introduce any sort of solid was.  Full term baby’s gut was probably developmentally ready at five months which was the standard recommendation at that time.  When my nieces (40ish, 2 out of 3 with gut issues) were little the recommendation was three months which the specialist was very clear was not old enough for solids in most.  My mom gave me baby cereal as soon as she could and was thrilled to be able to buy proper formula.  And yes, I have some gut issues, so does hubby whose mom also fed cereal ASAP.  

The specialist did advocate BF in general.  At that time I wondered if it was because in meant you wouldn’t feed your baby that magic formula with just a bit of cereal mixed in so your baby sleeps.......I know everyone told me that I was totally missing out.  It was the big mom tip among my friends. Hubby actually came home from a client meeting carrying a can of the “magic” formula that he wondered if we should try just once. No!!!!!

 At the time I listened to this lecture my preemie Ds hadn’t started solids yet and I held off as long as I could (til 9 months) just to be safe with the full support of my pediatrician.  My supply was huge so it wasn’t a big deal except in terms of sleep for me.

I have no idea what research on this topic recommends currently but it is something your daughters should look into when they are preparing to feed their babies.

 

[Ausmumof3]

9 hours ago, mumto2 said:

Regarding the gut issues.......the program I volunteered for had frequent Saturday lunch lectures for the moms who worked for them.  This was 19 years ago, so no notes, but we had a specialist on gut issues in infants speaking and what I took away was how important waiting to introduce any sort of solid was.  Full term baby’s gut was probably developmentally ready at five months which was the standard recommendation at that time.  When my nieces (40ish, 2 out of 3 with gut issues) were little the recommendation was three months which the specialist was very clear was not old enough for solids in most.  My mom gave me baby cereal as soon as she could and was thrilled to be able to buy proper formula.  And yes, I have some gut issues, so does hubby whose mom also fed cereal ASAP.  

The specialist did advocate BF in general.  At that time I wondered if it was because in meant you wouldn’t feed your baby that magic formula with just a bit of cereal mixed in so your baby sleeps.......I know everyone told me that I was totally missing out.  It was the big mom tip among my friends. Hubby actually came home from a client meeting carrying a can of the “magic” formula that he wondered if we should try just once. No!!!!!

 At the time I listened to this lecture my preemie Ds hadn’t started solids yet and I held off as long as I could (til 9 months) just to be safe with the full support of my pediatrician.  My supply was huge so it wasn’t a big deal except in terms of sleep for me.

I have no idea what research on this topic recommends currently but it is something your daughters should look into when they are preparing to feed their babies.

 

When I had ds the recommendation was to hold off till 6months but actually we had major issues moving to solids and in hindsight I think he would have done better with some food exposure earlier.  Most bubs start reaching for the spoon around 5 months or so and it’s like the sign to mum.

with my others I did baby led weaning and had much less trouble (though a tonne!!! Of mess)

when I think about it really if the food requires a blender it can’t have been the natural solution for humans through the rest of history.  A mush with a fork or something maybe.  But if the baby is so young they need it blended to a perfectly smooth texture they probably aren’t ready for food. 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Ausmumof3

[mumto2]

9 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

When I had ds the recommendation was to hold off till 6months but actually we had major issues moving to solids and in hindsight I think he would have done better with some food exposure earlier.  Most bubs start reaching for the spoon around 5 months or so and it’s like the sign to mum.

with my others I did baby led weaning and had much less trouble (though a tonne!!! Of mess)

when I think about it really if the food requires a blender it can’t have been the natural solution for humans through the rest of history.  A mush with a fork or something maybe.  But if the baby is so young they need it blended to a perfectly smooth texture they probably aren’t ready for food. 

Ds never showed any interest until 9 months and then he wanted everything and fed himself.   It was actually really easy because he went right to soft foods....as in mushed with a fork.  He first reached for the pumpkin pie at Thanksgiving and still loves pretty much anything pumpkin.  I’ll be honest and say I skipped the slow introduction for allergies because he never reacted to anything I ate in breast milk and Dd had reacted to the same foods in breast milk as in solids.

[maize]

3 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

 

with my others I did baby led weaning and had much less trouble (though a tonne!!! Of mess)

Did your babies actually wean themselves?

Mine start reaching for food around 4 months and I just let them have whatever table food they can manage, but they have zero desire to wean. Ever.

I have to wean them at some point; the one who nursed until age four kept telling me for years they wished they could still nurse.

My older (verbal) nurslings all told me my milk tastes like ice cream so I sorta get it. What kid would want to give up access to an ice cream milkshake anytime they want? 

I've always been a bit amused by those moms who diligently avoid ever giving their babies anything sweet to prevent them from developing a taste for sweet things. Breast milk is plenty sweet, babies are born to like the taste of sweet.

Edited May 14, 2019 by maize

[Ausmumof3]

8 minutes ago, maize said:

Did your babies actually wean themselves?

Mine start reaching for food around 4 months and I just let them have whatever table food they can manage, but they have zero desire to wean. Ever.

I have to wean them at some point; the one who nursed until age four kept telling me for years they wished they could still nurse.

My older (verbal) nurslings all told me my milk tastes like ice cream so I sorta get it. What kid would want to give up access to an ice cream milkshake anytime they want? 

I've always been a bit amused by those moms who diligently avoid ever giving their babies anything sweet to prevent them from developing a taste for sweet things. Breast milk is plenty sweet, babies are born to like the taste of sweet.

Lol no.  They “weaned” in that they ate significant amounts of solid food but dd weaned pretty easily when I was pregnant and youngest was almost 3.  It was a painless process compared to my first though.  Baby led feeding would be a better word.

and yes I have a friend who weaned around 3 and her verbal kid woke her up in the middle of the night asking for ice cream.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Ausmumof3

[Reefgazer]

On ‎5‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 10:48 PM, Mergath said:

From the studies and information I've read, if you're comparing modern formula prepared with clean, lead-free water to breastmilk, I don't think there's any significant difference. And I say this as someone who is still breastfeeding a twenty-month-old, so I'm not bitter or jealous or whatever breastfeeding proponents like to claim. I agree with the video that it's all the other factors that make a difference, not the breastmilk itself. And the argument that, "My breastmilk changes colors so it must be better!" is the silliest thing I've ever heard. It changes color depending on diet, just like how raw cow's milk or chicken eggs look or taste different depending on the animal's diet. That doesn't make it superior to modern formula. I mean, my pee turns pink if I eat beets but I'm not going to squirt it in my kid's ear if she gets an ear infection. 🤣

Yup, every word of this.  There are absolutely *zero* controlled studies that show breast milk is superior to formula; it's all correlation.

[shawthorne44]

 

The thing about breast milk is that we don't understand it.  It isn't because it changes, which it does.  Scientists don't understand everything that is in it.  According to what we know, formula should be MUCH sweeter than breast milk.  I think I read 7X sweeter.  But it isn't.  So, there are some big things about breast milk that we don't understand. 

Without understanding what is in breast milk, we can't know that formula replaces every important aspect. 

That isn't to say that anyone should feel guilty for using formula.  A friend of mine due at the same time, couldn't produce ANY milk.  She'd had a brain tumor that was removed. 

 

[Arcadia]

On 5/13/2019 at 1:34 AM, TravelingChris said:

 My daughter's both will have health and medications issues that probably will preclude breastfeeding too.

 

My husband has to stand his ground against anyone who overstepped. My MIL is pro breastfeeding but she was shocked at how aggressive some people were about formula being evil. My obgyn was supportive but my kids pediatrician wasn’t happy so we switched pediatricians. We want open minded medical professionals, not a one size fit all medical professionals for our family. Complementary medicine has been so helpful for my extended family. 

On 5/13/2019 at 1:59 AM, TravelingChris said:

I always laughed at those claims about breastfeeding and IQ.  We are plenty happy with the IQs we ended up with.

Immunity and gut bacteria are the real issues.   I do not know and no one knows if my family's fantastic awful luck w autoimmune issues have to do w/ no breastfeeding or maybe intergenerational curse of extreme hardships( yes, there are a number of good studies that are seeming to statistically making a connection) or overuse of antibiotics or too many infections or little green men or ,,,,,,,

 

I have been asked too many times what I feed my kids (no I didn’t feed them any IQ enhancing food nor did I take any IQ enhancing prenatal diet 😒 ). While malnutrition might be why my dad has learning difficulties, it doesn’t explain why my brother has similar learning difficulties other than genetics from my dad’s malnutrition.  

My nephew and I who have red streaks in our hair as kids have the worse case of eczema. We think there is a genetic link. None of my grandnephews and grandnieces has red streaks so far. 

[BeachGal]

Human milk oligosaccharides differ from bovine milk from which many formulas are produced. Formulas are now adding HMOs which they are hoping will improve formula.

https://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/452818

Oligosaccharides help to establish a healthy microbiome in the infant which in turn reduce inflammation and help to build a strong immune system.

Quote

It turns out the oligosaccharides are there to nourish not the baby but one particular gut bacterium called Bifidobacterium infantis, which is uniquely well-suited to break down and make use of the specific oligosaccharides present in mother's milk.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/19/magazine/say-hello-to-the-100-trillion-bacteria-that-make-up-your-microbiome.html

I'm in the camp that believes parents shouldn't feel guilty if they can't breastfeed. Sometimes you have to do the alternatives.

[Arcadia]

I do think postpartum care has much to be desired in the US system. It was easy to give the “correct” answers to the postpartum survey. My mom has nurse visits to help postpartum. It was probably a legacy of the British colonial days and all moms are eligible.

US has postpartum visits but the coverage is specific and not for every mom.

“Families are not charged for PPNBHVs or NICU Pre-discharge Home Visits. Medicaid is billed for eligible families. Funding from the Maternal and Child Health Block Grant helps support home visits to families of newborns weighing less than 5 pounds, 8 ounces at birth, infants born at less than or equal to 37 weeks gestation, and to mothers who are 17 years old or younger at the time of delivery.” https://scdhec.gov/health/family-planning/pregnancy/postpartum-newborn-home-visits

[ktgrok]

I think it comes down to the idea that it should be the mother's choice, but we as a society owe it to moms and babies to make sure it is an informed choice, and that there IS a choice, ideally. By that I mean, making sure women and doctors know the facts about feeding, and making sure our society supports women if they do choose to breastfeed. not support as in slogans, I mean support as in help available, work policies that make sense, etc etc. I am still surprised how many doctors and nurses don't know some basic things, like how to find out which medications are safe for nursing mothers, etc. 

How many moms weaned because they were told they had to due to medications, when those medications actually were very safe? Sure, she might still choose to wean, but she should be given the information so she can make a choice. When I had surgery I had multiple doctors/nurses who had no clue that it was safe to nurse after anesthesia, they didn't know which meds were safe for pain, etc. I had to do all the research on that. Two told me I'd need to wean or postpone surgery - how many other women did they tell that to who trusted them and did wean? 

[maize]

38 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I think it comes down to the idea that it should be the mother's choice, but we as a society owe it to moms and babies to make sure it is an informed choice, and that there IS a choice, ideally. By that I mean, making sure women and doctors know the facts about feeding, and making sure our society supports women if they do choose to breastfeed. not support as in slogans, I mean support as in help available, work policies that make sense, etc etc. I am still surprised how many doctors and nurses don't know some basic things, like how to find out which medications are safe for nursing mothers, etc. 

How many moms weaned because they were told they had to due to medications, when those medications actually were very safe? Sure, she might still choose to wean, but she should be given the information so she can make a choice. When I had surgery I had multiple doctors/nurses who had no clue that it was safe to nurse after anesthesia, they didn't know which meds were safe for pain, etc. I had to do all the research on that. Two told me I'd need to wean or postpone surgery - how many other women did they tell that to who trusted them and did wean? 

Yes to all of this.

And...if no one could breastfeed following a surgery no mom who delivered via C-section could ever breastfeed. Surely a doctor could think that through?

Sigh.