Severe Dyslexia

[Rebecca]

Well, Hive-

My seven year old daughter was diagnosed with developmental dyslexia that is severe.

We have an appointment coming up at a reputable place called Kennedy Krieger which will do a full assessment/evaluation and speech therapy (to start).

She was evaluated and diagnosed by a licensed psychologist.

One thing on my brain is purchasing the pre-Barton-

Foundation in Sounds for her.

I felt completely way-laid- as in almost hit by a truck- when I investigated the cost of Lindamood- Bell- which was potentially recommended for her if we cannot get sufficient therapy through another avenue. In addition, I felt the same when I studied dyslexic schools in my state. Thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars.

I am a long time homeschooler. Can I do this? How can I do this?

I posted on this board a couple months ago- because I also have a daughter with a language learning disability/disorder who is also heading to Kennedy Krieger (next week, actually) but her learning issues are completely different.

Entering a whole new world here in my fourteenth/fifteenth year of homeschooling.  How do I know if she needs a dyslexic school? 

 

 

[PeterPan]

I can understand why you're worried, seeing all the costs for these things! What will your insurance cover and do you have disability scholarships in your state?

If a dc has significant language disability issues *and* the phonological processing, sometimes a dyslexia school is not the best option. I think I would not assume you have to go that route. Around here that kind of school is $40k and it could be even more in your area. Yes, KK is a big name! I think someone else here on the board may have used them, and I would think you'll get helpful evals there.

As far as the speech therapy, what's going on? See here's the thing. My ds started off with a dyslexia diagnosis from a bigwig, super popular psych in town who is well-liked for dyslexia, co-authored an ADHD diagnostic tool. He just happened to suck at listening and didn't listen to any of the stuff I was saying that indicated ASD. My ds now has an ASD2 diagnosis and is considered to have a language disability. 

My ds does have a dyslexia gene, yes, but he also has ASD. And for him, the language delay from the ASD affected how his brain was learning language. He learned it WHOLE TO PARTS instead of PARTS TO WHOLE like a more typically developing dc. That is more than a learning style issue. What it meant is he was memorizing paragraphs out of audiobooks and *sounded* like he had a lot of language. However when his brain tried to break it down from paragraphs to sentences to words to bits of words (spelling, morphemes, the smallest components like sounds, prefixes, plurals, etc.) he was toast.

So if you have a sibling with known language issues and you're getting speech therapy, that's something to hone in on. The way we found it in him was the SPELT (=structured photographic expressive language test). 

I've posted a link in the past to some research on genetics. There were like 12 genes involved in that particular study and yes the more genes you ticked the more severe the dyslexia would be. Each gene affected a slightly different component in the phonological processing.

How far are you driving to get to KK? For us, there's always this toggle between driving farther to get high quality care and saying ok if I have good materials we can do this ourselves. There's nothing LMB would do that you can't do. Seriously. Just chalk that one up. Do you have other students you're teaching?

I think tell us more about the language issues and what you think is going on and we'll see what we can throw at you. In general, LIPS is going to be a strong tool for kids who have articulation issues. It includes pictures of the mouth faces and allows you to connect their speech therapy to their spelling. I have not seen FIS nor has anyone here, but they have not been forthcoming on the qualifications of the developers. LMB was developed by SLPs and is pretty powerful once you wrap your brain around it. FIS is scripted and definitely appropriate for the run of the mill, typical dyslexic. Once you start interjecting complications (like my ds' apraxia, a motor planning problem of speech that required significant merging of his speech therapy methodology and the phonological processing materials to get it to click), I don't see FIS getting the person there. And FIS is dramatically more expensive than LIPS. 

With my ds I used a simple workbook Attention Good Listeners that has unique exercises using minimal difference pairs for discrimination. This was very powerful for him. And I used LIPS because it allowed me to merge his specialized speech therapy and the reading instruction. 

If a dc has a language disability, language delay, etc., you want to make sure that their brains are even working at the word and sound level yet. We worked at the sound level with my ds before we did our language work, but it always felt wrong, like he was memorizing jibberish and didn't really GET it. I have a whole thread I made on language where I've detailed what we did. Basically I used one workbook as a spine (a book that was freely available as a pdf at that time) and fleshed out each chapter. As *words* began to have meaning, then he started, on his own, noticing the parts of words (spellings, endings. etc.). So if you have any indication of language disability like that, that's what you'd be doing I would think. But you can have dyslexia without that, absolutely. I'm just noticing you mentioned for the other dc. Sometimes issues unfold with time.

So what evals have you had so far? Who diagnosed the dyslexia? SLP, tutor, psych? And what evals will they be doing next? Hearing? More SLP? If you can push for thorough language testing, including something like that SPELT and something for narrative language, that would give you important data. 

I think on materials, go with your gut for what you think is most important. If it's more important to have the program scripted, get FIS. If it's more important to save money or have a very flexible tool for unique speech production issues, go with LIPS. You're probably going to have some mistakes. At least we're talking $100-200, not $5-10k. A LMB center can be astonishingly expensive, and you CAN do this. It will take some work, but absolutely you can do this! 

What I found with my ds was that the things I could do at home made the in-office speech therapy go better. I would not discount yourself as a therapist for them, as someone contributing and bringing great value to the process. What you lack in experience you make up for with tenacity and time available to work with them. We were doing 2 hours of speech therapy a week with a 2 1/2 hour drive each way, which seems like a lot but was a drop in the bucket because of the extent of my ds' needs. I could do therapy with him every day then, and when I would fade his progress would slow. You are a valuable part of the TEAM. 

When we finally got really good materials for phonological processing, it was rocket fuel for our speech therapy. They're going to go hand in hand, with the work you do making the speech therapy go better. Anything you can do to improve sound discrimination, working memory, etc. will be amazing. 

We've had some people here on the boards work with severe dyslexia, and basically they worked 2-3 hours a day on it. It wasn't pretty. And they did that like year round, for a year or two and they made astonishing progress. My ds is considered to have severe apraxia and a language delay, and when we work on language we work 2-3 hours a day, yes. There is no denying we're talking big tasks, lots of work, sigh. But yes it's stuff you can do. 

Are these bio children? Do you pass the Barton tutor screening? It's just something to check. If you do not, you'll want a game plan there. Even if you're not planning to use Barton, it would give you good information to do the tutor screening and see what happens. https://bartonreading.com/tutors/

Have you had the dc's hearing checked? Our university can run audiology and do the SCAN screening portion to screen for APD for free. Given that both involve issues with sound discrimination and language, it's just something to get checked, just to make sure it's not part of the issue. 

*I* think, and this is just my opinion, that much of the time the *amount* of time we have outweighs what a professional can do in a shorter time. I think you'll find that balance for yourself. I look for people who are doing something I *couldn't* do for myself or for people who do it better for whatever reason. Sometimes doing it with a therapist lets us work on other soft skills (compliance, behaviors, conversation, whatever). There can be good reasons for doing in-office something you theoretically could do yourself! But it's not necessary to run yourself ragged IF you are able to give them focused attention at a therapy level of intervention several hours a day to work. It's ok to drive while you're getting these evals, but then definitely stop and say ok what can we do ourselves, what can we do closer, and reign that in to a level that works for your family.

As far as finding practitioners, the other thing you could do is look for an SLP who specializes in literacy. These people do exist, and they're usually trained in OG, Wilson, something in that vein. They'll also have the ability to run language testing and bring more skills together than you could with say a straight Barton-trained tutor or something. And maybe you can get your insurance to cover it. It's just something to look for.

Take deep breaths. You've got this, you're gonna figure it out, and you'll make a plan that works. 

[PeterPan]

6 hours ago, Rebecca said:

How do I know if she needs a dyslexic school? 

We have some people here with dc in a dyslexia school, so they can speak. I'll just say, having walked up to the door on some of these options (autism school, dyslexia school), that the reason is not *only* intervention. If it were just intervention you'd hire a tutor to come in every day or work 2-3 hours a day and be done with it. I think it's because they're looking at the whole child and how the whole child is functioning. 

The dyslexia school in our area is a beautiful place on so many levels:

-integration of social skills and self-regulation programs

-teaching them to use tech and self-advocate

-developing a positive sense of self and how they function as learners

-developing other areas that weren't maybe getting attention (art, drama, creativity, technology)

-availability of many services under one roof (SLP, reading, etc.)

I've also heard stories of kids whose dyslexia was so severe that this wasn't really the right environment for them. it was't really solving their problem, because they really needed 1:1, super intense, more hours than they would get even in a dyslexia school. So look at what problem it's solving, rather than just oh it's for dyslexia. You might do one year with her of very intense intervention to get things clicking and then enroll her for another 2-3 years in the dyslexia school to get it brought into that larger context of function. You would have options like that. But yeah, wicked expensive. Not something you HAVE to do. Those kids are not only in because of severity. Like I don't know every single child, but I'm saying their focus seemed to be on helping the dc function as a whole. I would think in stages and think about what your biggest goal is. It's not like a right/wrong. I mean, nuts, I'm not trying to enroll my ds, and he's been on the super slow path even to picking up a book, lol. There are reasons it's great but they might not be what you need right now. It's ok either way, truly.

6 hours ago, Rebecca said:

I felt completely way-laid- as in almost hit by a truck

Just my advice, but take your time to grieve, talk with a friend, get the spouse onboard, whatever. Take care of yourself emotionally, because YOU being fresh and on the ball and calm and confident will make a big difference. Taking care of YOURSELF is what will make all the rest work. 

You might like to pursue some evidence-based strategies for calming, like mindfulness and body scans. It will be good for your dd's and good for you to help deal with this stress. They're about to do HARD THINGS and it's very emotional. Like I said, the dyslexia school around here uses Zones of Regulation with all these kids. They need ways to talk about their emotions, use calming strategies, and have it acknowledged that it's hard and that they feel whatever they feel. You might be able to learn enough on pinterest to make something happen for Zones of Regulation. Anything in this vein, like 10 minutes of a body scan every morning and then check-ins would be really valuable to you. Ten minutes of mindfulness bumps EF (executive function, what they need to do the Barton/FIS/whatever and stay calm and hold their thoughts and keep track of everything) by 30%!!!!! That's a big deal. 

So take care of yourself and take steps to keep it healthy and calm. When you're happy, everybody's gonna be happy, lol. Maybe not, but still. 

Do you walk each day or do some form of exercise? Now would be a good time. You're going to have a lot of stress.

When I first started with my ds, I was SO stressed about his diagnosis (moderate to severe apraxia, which can lead to not being able to speak and being unintelligible) that I was just on edge all the time. I felt guilty if I wasn't constantly working with him, constantly reinforcing something. We spent 6-9 months literally just picking up his jaw so he could learn to close his mouth. Those were dark days! Now I bring in workers to clone myself, go to the gym, etc. You have to do things that keep you fresh so you can go back at it renewed each day. And your dc, to renew, needs things that keep them fresh. They don't want to do ONLY intervention, even though they need a lot of intervention. It's hard to find that balance. I have to work on it continually, adding things and making sure life feels good. 

I go to the gym and use an 18 pound slam ball when I feel angry at people. We went through the IEP process, wow what a fight. And I'd go in and SLAM that ball so hard, lol. 

Edited April 28, 2019 by PeterPan

[Lecka]

My older son had speech therapy for “phonological processes” (and articulation and cluttering) and they covered the same material as Lips or FIS would cover.  I think you can ask that about speech therapy.  

I have read very good things about homeschooling while doing dyslexia remediation, on the Barton website and the Yale website.  I will see if I can link.  

 

[Lecka]

http://dyslexia.yale.edu/resources/parents/stories-from-parents/a-home-schooling-experience/

https://susanbartondyslexiastories.com/2014/09/09/homeschooling-with-the-barton-system/

[TheReader]

I'm running out the door to church, but my youngest was dx'ed with severe dyslexia at age 7 as well (he had both auditory & visual) and a host of other things. Short story - spent time on phonological awareness (we used Earobics with great success) and then Barton and he's now on grade level at age 14. 

I'll come write more later, but it can be done. ((((Hugs))))

[Lecka]

I am back from church myself 😉. There was no Lindamood Bell Center or dyslexia school anywhere nearby.  I actually looked into moving for a summer for a Lindamood Bell Center.  It was really truly impractical in every way, though.  

My 14-year-old is a great reader now.  He has been reading “on grade level” since 4th grade and he has been hooked on a series since late 6th grade.  Before that he was very picky and it was very hard to find books he would want to read, and I was requiring him to spend time reading when I wished he were more independent and cared about finding his own books.  

His handwriting is still problematic but he is good at typing now.  

His speech is great now.  

I think you have a big advantage with being an experienced homeschooler.  Also keep in mind, for some people they could more easily pay for things than do it themselves, because they need to work.  I don’t think one thing is overall better or worse.  At the time when I was researching the Lindamood Bell center where my ILs lived, they were doing 4 hours a day and hiring college students for the summer.  

Well — this is a good model for people who *have* to do their remediation over the summer and really can’t do much at home (this really is reality for some people for various reasons). 

But 4 hours a day is really a lot, and I think it is too much.  I think if it is the only option then it is a good option, and it is the right option for some people, but I do question it being “the best option” because — it really is just one model and there are other models!

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, TheReader said:

we used Earobics with great success

If op ends up wanting this, I have it around somewhere to sell... It was something our SLP had everyone go through, yes. 

[PeterPan]

36 minutes ago, Lecka said:

4 hours a day is really a lot

You mean the long sessions at LMB? They have strategies for that, like changing the worker every hour, etc. etc. To me the point is you don't need it. Everything they're doing, you can do too, and almost none of what they're doing intensively would solve the dc's real problems. Like V/V is nice, but you have to be able to decode. 

[Lecka]

Yes, they do have strategies, but still they are doing 4 hours a day during summer because it is scheduled around public school schedules and not having time in the school year.

I am sure they have after-school too, but I was looking at their summer stuff because we would have had to move for the summer to do it.  Since — we did not have it available locally, but I could have theoretically commuted to one for a summer while living with my ILs, and been able to have my son go to a Lindamood Bell center.  

I agree it’s not necessary, but I did look into it.  I think they do have good results and are very nice programs, but it’s definitely not the only model.  

I turned out to be pleasantly surprised by some options in my community, too.  

[TheReader]

Okay, coming back to this....

PeterPan has (unsurprisingly) shared very good advice, suggestions, etc., so firstly, "yes, what she said." 

And, yes, you *can* do this at home. I wish we'd found Barton sooner. We couldn't have started right away -- DS needed a year of phonemic awareness stuff, honestly; when he tested at age 7.5, he fell around a 4 yr old level, and that was *after* we'd attempted Explode the Code (Ready, Get Set, & Go...) three times over the 2 years leading up to being tested. But I wish we'd known about it early on to get and try and start as soon as he was ready. We didn't start it until he was.....10? I think? It all blurs together for me, sorry....We started it recently-ish, though. He may even have been older. 

BUT, what I found when we did start Barton.....we could do it. And it works. Even though, when he was seen (oh, huh, it must have been around age 11 actually) for a different evaluation (we thought also autism) they said it was the worst dyslexia they'd seen in a kid his age. Even though at the time, we'd made HUGE progress at that point (he was by then reading on a late 1st grade level). I mean, we'd originally been told things like "IF he learns to read...." and that he'd always have to rely on speech to text and text to speech for everything. Yet, here he is now, reading the Warriors series (cat books), on his own, and at a relatively astonishing pace. Able to read his school textbooks and answer comprehension questions from the text (find the answers) on his own (he's using America the Beautiful, and Bob Jones Science 6). Typed a story, with dialogue, with few errors. A two page story that he made up, on his own.  I mean, when he was diagnosed, I had no idea what to expect. And then when we were still struggling so much, so greatly, we honestly wondered if he'd ever have enough literacy to grocery shop, or drive, or navigate cities, or anything. But here we are. 

So. How do you know if he needs a school for dyslexic students? Well, for us, it came down to cost. Maybe it would have been better, I have no idea, but we just flat couldn't afford it. I mean, it was so far out of the realm of possibility that the question was answered before we even really asked it, ya know? And while at times I really lamented that fact, the more I read about the ones near us, the more I realized something.....part of what makes them wonderful is that they cater each student's learning to his style, his needs, curriculum is adjusted around what fits him, etc.  And I realized.....gee, that's a lot like homeschooling. Which I can do. If I can get my hands on the right tools for him (which for him was the Earobics we used, then the Barton), then we can do this. I had to figure out different maths for him because he learns so.very.differently. in everything, and we had to go slower on his other subjects, and we had to leave my beloved Sonlight because back then he really struggled with following dialogue and fiction books in general when read to him, and......yes, it's looked a lot different than teaching his brothers ever looked. But, we did it. We're doing it. 

He also got speech therapy for other stuff, and then worked with someone for "anxiety" (the autism eval said anxiety, the therapist said no, this is not anxiety, but she worked with him on social skills and speaking up and making eye contact and such), and he's just come so far. We use a few once/week outside classes and next year, for the first time, he's going to go to a literature/writing class, and all his other classes will be on grade level. I'm insanely excited about this. We're still doing (not as diligently as we should be) Barton, so that more & more becomes automatic and his spelling/writing catch up to the reading part, but he's doing really well. I'm starting to think college may, perhaps, actually be an option for him one day. He's starting to work more & more independently in his other school work, and.....it's just mind blowing. 

If you have questions, I'm happy to chat about what we did, what worked, what didn't, etc. Mainly: the Earobics (or any similar phonological awareness stuff) and then the Barton, those were the key for us. Tried a lot of other "cobble this together" programs that were all Orton Gillingham based, but.....Barton took all of the stress off. You can probably search my posts from back then and see all the info, I shared in a lot of detail and got a lot of great answers/input. 

Bottom line: grieve this, because it is a grief-worthy thing, and then, yes, you can do this. Your kiddo will be okay. It's a marathon, so pace yourself, but you'll get there. 

[PeterPan]

5 minutes ago, TheReader said:

I wish we'd found Barton sooner.

Just as a total aside, there's this funny thing in our area where they give up hope on autism readers. I think it's because it IS so profound and hard, like you're saying. For reading all the components have to come together (language comprehension, decoding, ability to attend, etc. etc.). I don't think one should necessarily feel bad about a "later" progression in that sense (especially when we're only talking age 10), because truthfully it probably allowed a lot of that to come together. I mean, you could do like I did and get him reading at age 6 but have him completely hyperlexic, having no comprehension of what he read at all, lol. Seriously, when I got my ds reading, through a stellar implementation of LIPS + Barton, he couldn't understand "a frog sat on a log." But he had passed the stupid CELF, so we couldn't figure it out. I would come on the boards saying he was a hyperlexic dyslexic, but it sounded pretty whack at the time, lol. Now I have the tests to show it happened and we were able to intervene. But yeah, earlier is not *necessarily* better for all kids. All the pieces have to come together.

6 minutes ago, TheReader said:

Yet, here he is now, reading the Warriors series (cat books), on his own, and at a relatively astonishing pace. Able to read his school textbooks and answer comprehension questions from the text (find the answers) on his own (he's using America the Beautiful, and Bob Jones Science 6). Typed a story, with dialogue, with few errors. A two page story that he made up, on his own. 

This is wonderful!!! I had one dc for whom those were not hard tasks and my ds for whom those are BIG accomplishments!!! Reading to learn (vs learning to read) is an amazing shift. We *just* started that this year. It was this whole step up, wow. How is he enjoying America the Beautiful, btw? I remember looking at it at a convention and liking it. We do a lot of workbooks right now, things that are brief. (read a page, answer some questions, interact, rinse repeat) What age/stage is your ds now? Are you using the BJU 6 on-level or off? I very much like the BJU science too, good stuff!!

9 minutes ago, TheReader said:

gee, that's a lot like homeschooling.

So true!! Around here they have a beautiful new building, and it's literally set up with school rooms and a sort of living room in the (very wide) hall with couches, etc. It's LITERALLY like homeschooling, lol!!! And touring it made me realize what we were doing well, if that makes sense. We're able to use evidence-based practices and high quality materials, whether it's at home or at a specialized school. It's not like they had access to something we don't.

12 minutes ago, TheReader said:

we had to leave my beloved Sonlight because back then he really struggled with following dialogue and fiction books in general when read to him

Yes, sigh, that's us. Blew my mind. He just didn't have the language comprehension, still doesn't. I mean, I've worked and worked, and both Sarah, Plain and Tall, and Dr. Doolittle fell flat on him recently. But I've been really excited that the picture books we're getting using the lexile search engine are working!! It's a big deal and so fun here. We just need to go back and work on syntax and sentence complexity to get his comprehension up the rest of the way, sigh. That's where op wants language testing. Dyslexia *is* considered a language disability within the SLP world, but the extent of what is going on really varies.

15 minutes ago, TheReader said:

He's starting to work more & more independently in his other school work, and.....it's just mind blowing. 

This is AMAZING!!! Love it. So what types of things does he do well with independently? 

16 minutes ago, TheReader said:

Tried a lot of other "cobble this together" programs that were all Orton Gillingham based, but.....Barton took all of the stress off.

Just to assuage your guilt a bit on the late thing, I'll just point out that Barton too early might not have been a good fit either. That's what my ds was doing at 6 when he went so hyperlexic. If that language is delayed at all, it's going to be an issue. So maybe don't guilt yourself there.

[Rebecca]

Thank you so much to everyone. I have been overwhelmed a lot in this past year processing and realizing so many different things.

First of all, I am definitely interested in Earobics. I am curious about what this is, and I am going to research this after I am done posting this. I am not too keen on the realization that the Foundation in Sounds people are not revealing their credentials. 😞 Even though it is a lot less than private tutoring or these other options, it is still an expensive purchase- so I have to also investigate this fully to make sure it is the right next step. I thought I would go to All About Reading- but I think her need is too deep for that program. I am not familiar at all with some of the acronyms used like LIPs? 

I want to answer the questions asked... my daughter does significantly struggle in math as well. She cannot recognize some of the numbers 1-10 visually- but she can count 1-10 and beyond. She can add/subtract with manipulatives and a number line but not abstractly.  The psych stated that one of her issues is "labels"-- she doesn't have the working memory to pull the "label" out of her brain for the thing that she might fully know and/or recognize. 

She was evaluated by a licensed psychologist. The next step is Speech and Language at Kennedy Krieger (and me continuing to work with her at home). I am pretty certain they do hearing in their initial screening. I think our commute will be about 45 minutes or so. Longer with traffic/depending on the time of day.

Just as a point of reference- my older daughter (14) was given a mixed expressive/receptive language disorder and pragmatic communication disorder. The advice was to begin with Speech and Language therapy (somewhere)- I had trouble knowing where to go- and chose  Kennedy Krieger - and then go from there. She is not dyslexic per the psych.

My seven year old (dyslexic diag) has articulation issues- so that is the first step for her- and hopefully, they will be able to fully evaluate/address dyslexia. 

At this time, I think insurance will cover therapy at KK. We would qualify for significant financial aid at a dyslexia school- but I think that would be a last resort for us- because we are a fully vested homeschooling family- and we are currently launching children into college- and will be for years to come- which takes so many resources. The psychologist did think that the speech therapy for her current needs would also be the same thing she needs for her dyslexia at this point- similar to what Lecka wrote- that is pretty much what I am expecting for her- but I also thought I should get FIS or something like that to support her learning with me at home.

I thought (and continue to think seriously) about getting trained as  Lindamood Bell tutor or any other kind of tutor for that matter- to help her. IF anyone has insight or links to that kind of training, I would thank you deeply. I have to take the Barton tutor screening- which I plan to do in the next day or so.

My daughter took a very long time to learn to write her name and even now will sometimes just "forget" to write the last letter.  She is very creative and artistic. To be completely honest, at this time, I do not have a full understanding of the scope of her struggle/deficit. Some days are harder than others for her. She has all the "classic" signs of dyslexia.  

Peter Pan, you gave such good, real advice. Thank you. I need to reread your words. My husband and I just started to try to walk in the early mornings most week-days- and it is so needed.

I really- deeply- appreciate the encouragement that I will be able to tutor her and work with her at home. - that is really where my heart is- but I am also realizing that this is going to deeply shape my path for the next season of schooling- in ways I haven't walked before- and I need to get my bearings. Also, what happens if I don't pass the Barton tutor screening? Any help for that?

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU

-Rebecca

[Rebecca]

35 minutes ago, TheReader said:

Yet, here he is now, reading the Warriors series (cat books), on his own, and at a relatively astonishing pace. Able to read his school textbooks and answer comprehension questions from the text (find the answers) on his own (he's using America the Beautiful, and Bob Jones Science 6). Typed a story, with dialogue, with few errors. A two page story that he made up, on his own.  I mean, when he was diagnosed, I had no idea what to expect. And then when we were still struggling so much, so greatly, we honestly wondered if he'd ever have enough literacy to grocery shop, or drive, or navigate cities, or anything. But here we are. 

I just want to say that these books were REALLY instrumental for my older daughter with the language disorder/disability. The Warrior series helped her SO much- gain fluency and also even REMOTELY enjoy any kind of reading.  

[PeterPan]

4 minutes ago, Rebecca said:

The next step is Speech and Language at Kennedy Krieger (and me continuing to work with her at home). I am pretty certain they do hearing in their initial screening.

Make sure they also do narrative and really thorough expressive language testing. Narrative language can be assessed dynamically (they read the dc a book and have them retell it) or with a standardized tool like the TNL=Test of Narrative Language. Also there's a small narrative language component I think to the newly popular TILLS (which you don't really need). I personally would advocate for the TNL. For expressive language, the CELF is common, but the SPELT (structured photographic expressive language test) caught things for my ds.

No one can *guarantee* you can teach these complicated cases successfully. Barton is NOT going to address the language disability AT ALL. In fact, my ds was basically hyperlexic after Barton, reading but not comprehending. That was no fault of Barton's but resulted from his untreated language disability. We were struggling to find tests to explain what was going on. He would pass the CELF so people were like see, fine, no language problem! LOL So you always have to reckon with the language issues and get help for them.

I think if you could get significant funding for the dyslexia school that you would do well to look into it. It would get you access to SLP and reading under one roof, and I think the language issues you may turn out to have would require quite a bit of intervention. You might find the 45 minute each way therapy trips MORE disruptive than a nice school. I get that's emotional, and I decided not to also. But if you have the OPTION, I would at least tour, see what it would be like, and look into the funding. 

11 minutes ago, Rebecca said:

Also, what happens if I don't pass the Barton tutor screening? Any help for that?

It only takes about 10 minutes, so go do it and see. No need to stress over that til you've done the screening to know. Hopefully you'll be fine! 

12 minutes ago, Rebecca said:

I thought (and continue to think seriously) about getting trained as  Lindamood Bell tutor or any other kind of tutor for that matter- to help her. IF anyone has insight or links to that kind of training,

What programs are you wanting from LMB? You do not have to use a LMB center to get someone to do LMB materials with her. Many tutors and SLPs specializing in literacy will have LIPS or something to use with her. You might be able to get your insurance to pay for the SLP who specializes in literacy, so I would look into that. Learning Ally *used* to have a list and I dno't know where it went.

Total aside, but have you looked into the National Library Service? Now that you have your diagnosis, you can take your paperwork to your ped/doctor and have them sign the application, boom. We use the NLS a TON.

[Lecka]

LIPS is a Lindamood Bell program, it and Foundations in Sound are both options for students not passing the Barton student screening (for before Barton).

My son needed that level of intervention, but he did it in speech therapy, so I never did it with him.  It seems like it’s not too common but it is what happened for us.  

[Rebecca]

So, my older daughter is the one who has the language disability on the level of comprehension and also expression. She struggles with (understanding/processing/connecting the ideas in) what she hears/reads and also written and verbal communication. 

My seven year old does not have any trouble with comprehension and story sequencing. She has a long attention span for novels such as the Narnia books and can follow the story- but she might get the character names confused or not remember the name but know who the character is.  For this I am grateful because I am a literature person. I can really relate to a lot of what was written (regarding Sonlight,etc ) in the posts above- because that has been my experience with my older daughter. My seven year old loves to be read to- but she has a fully self awareness that she herself cannot read/is struggling to learn to read/wonders if she will ever read.

In the realm of the different tests they she was given, her strength lies in story sequencing and memory- as well as comprehension.  I am not sure of the depth of the language disability beyond the phonological with sound and vision (visual) for her.-- Things I need to find out! 

For my older daughter, the psych basically stated she needed a more fine-grained- specialized assessment than the Dr (she) could provide.

I do not know the actual financial aid picture- to be honest for the special schools- and I also do not know what my state offers for disability grants/etc. The schools I looked at briefly had need-based financial aid programs  So- I might have mis-represented that in my post above. 

[PeterPan]

Well if you end up buying FIS, report back! We're always wanting to hear what it's like. It comes up, and we just don't get anybody coming back saying anything. It's supposed to be structured like Barton, open and go, very user-friendly.

[Pen]

You may be able to combine ps help and homeschooling to get IEP help for speech therapy and maybe also for reading and writing 

or a homeschooling “charter” in some states might give a chance to get some funds toward some materials

etc...   it can depend on what is available where you are

probably it would be good to start figuring that out

 

[*****]

6 hours ago, Rebecca said:

In the realm of the different tests they she was given, her strength lies in story sequencing and memory- as well as comprehension.  I am not sure of the depth of the language disability beyond the phonological with sound and vision (visual) for her.-- Things I need to find out! 

 

I think this is a real plus.  I wonder if she will be able to remember sounds in the correct order more easily than some.  This will be a strength for decoding words in Barton.      I used Foundations in Sounds with some of my students and like it a great deal.  It is laid out just like Barton, so it is easy to transition into Barton Level 1.  The pictures in FIS helped my more severe student remember sounds. 

  I was nervous about taking the screening for myself, just because my hearing isn't what it used to be, but I passed just fine.  They just want to make sure you are hearing the sounds correctly because you need to teach the sounds correctly to your child.    Once your child does the Barton screening, if she doesn't pass Part C, that is when Foundations in Sounds comes into play.  It helps them pass Part C of the screening assessment.  

I'd be glad to answer any further questions, even if you want to PM me.  I have had 2 students at what I would consider the more severe level.  I carried 6th and 3rd grade boys through FIS with no arguments.  The 6th grader is so pleased with Barton, he has said several times before, "Why don't they teach this in regular school, I get this now!" (He is actually an 8th grader now in the middle of Level 4).   My 3rd grader was pretty much a non-reader last year.  He had very poor visual memory, so even with easy sight words such as: said, of...he had difficulty remembering how to read them.  Both boys are actually reading full sentences this year.  It is so awesome to hear them actually reading now!   

 Just a thought, record your daughter now, so you can show her the growth over time.  She will be glad to hear the difference!  

Just take everything in small steps, one day at a time.  I am glad she enjoys hearing stories, she is more likely to enjoy reading on her own later!  

[PeterPan]

5 hours ago, ***** said:

I used Foundations in Sounds with some of my students and like it a great deal. 

Have you used LIPS to compare them?

5 hours ago, ***** said:

The pictures in FIS helped my more severe student remember sounds. 

Can you tell us what the pictures are like? I thought I had seen in samples something like this https://www2.aston.ac.uk/lss/research/lss-research/ccisc/discourse-and-culture/west-midlands-english-speech-and-society/sounds-of-english/sound-production  (drawings from the side with grids to show where the sound was produced)

5 hours ago, ***** said:

It is so awesome to hear them actually reading now!

Yes, that's WONDERFUL!!! And can we ask what setting you're working in and how many hours a week you're able to work with them? If it's pullout, is the regular classroom teacher following through? Or if it's tutoring, are they doing homework? Just thought it might be helpful to the op.

5 hours ago, ***** said:

I wonder if she will be able to remember sounds in the correct order more easily than some.  This will be a strength for decoding words in Barton. 

Yes, when we started LIPS+ Barton, I added in work for working memory. We did it 3-4X a day in short bursts, and we did it a different way each time. So we might do digit spans, playing Simon Says where he would repeat and then do a sequence of commands (tap your 3 X, jump, etc.), something for visual memory (memory game, the $5 kind from Walmart), or a game that used a lot of working memory to score like Ticket to Ride. We also used A Fist Full of Coins.

Edited April 29, 2019 by PeterPan

[Pen]

Another thing to consider while figuring out other options is http://Www.talkingfingers.com  Read write type program .  It isn’t terribly expensive and may be helpful to your children.  

Perhaps the Talking Shapes would be helpful for your severe dyslexia child.  It wasn’t around yet when my son did Talkingfingers.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Pen

[Pen]

In my area, people who lived within city limits of one of my state’s larger cities had access — for a reasonable fee  as compared to special schools and typical tutoring  — to summer reading instruction help via a collaboration between the city school district and a university.  It was open to private and homeschool students as well as public school students.  You might want to see if your area has anything or whether ifvthere are any universities that would have programs of any sort that could help.  

Speech therapy is very likely available from somewhere in your area.  Perhaps for free in addition to the Kennedy Kreiger.  

In general it helps to have speech and sound work before reading.  However I noticed that my son was also helped in his speech abilities by reading—seeing what sound a word was supposed to have rather than what he’d thought he heard.

[*****]

9 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Have you used LIPS to compare them?      No, I have not used LIPS before.  FIS and Barton are made even for parents to easily use with their own children.    If FIS doesn't work, (in which case the student is very, very severe,  I would suggest LIPS. ) But finding someone trained in this may not be easy. 

Can you tell us what the pictures are like? I thought I had seen in samples something like this https://www2.aston.ac.uk/lss/research/lss-research/ccisc/discourse-and-culture/west-midlands-english-speech-and-society/sounds-of-english/sound-production  (drawings from the side with grids to show where the sound was produced).   

I haven't looked up you link, but no, the pictures are real photographs.  See this link:  https://www.foundationinsounds.com/training    You could watch the video, or even see a small picture below the given video of all the materials.  Also look up FIS and go to images, I saw the same picture of the complete set there. 

 

Yes, that's WONDERFUL!!! And can we ask what setting you're working in and how many hours a week you're able to work with them? If it's pullout, is the regular classroom teacher following through? Or if it's tutoring, are they doing homework? Just thought it might be helpful to the op.

  I have been working in 2 separate private schools.  Both allow for pull-out for me to work with students.  Initially, because of short attention spans, I only worked with them on this for 20 minutes.  They do a 45-50 minute lesson with me now.  One is on Level 3, the other is in 4.  And I only see them 2 times per week.  So, see how much further along they would be if they received lessons 3-5 times a week, depending on your situation.  Depending on their classroom teacher, some have also been using the Barton spelling words that I provide rather than the classroom list of words. Other than that, the teacher does not reinforce what is learned in Barton.  

For those that I do after school tutoring, sometimes I send homework. There are extra practice fill-in-the-blanks for example.  Or I might send home fluency pages, or a simple book that I know they can read (phonetic book).  I only do this for those who I know will return materials.  Some, I try, but it doesn't get returned. No homework at the FIS level though.  

Yes, when we started LIPS+ Barton, I added in work for working memory. We did it 3-4X a day in short bursts, and we did it a different way each time. So we might do digit spans, playing Simon Says where he would repeat and then do a sequence of commands (tap your 3 X, jump, etc.), something for visual memory (memory game, the $5 kind from Walmart), or a game that used a lot of working memory to score like Ticket to Ride. We also used A Fist Full of Coins.

Yes, I like memory work as well. Usually, I can fit in a quick game of the electronic Simon, or we play memory using Barton words.  I have also made up sequencing activities off the top of my head, to put objects in order...

 

[TheReader]

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Just as a total aside, there's this funny thing in our area where they give up hope on autism readers. I think it's because it IS so profound and hard, like you're saying. For reading all the components have to come together (language comprehension, decoding, ability to attend, etc. etc.). I don't think one should necessarily feel bad about a "later" progression in that sense (especially when we're only talking age 10), because truthfully it probably allowed a lot of that to come together. I mean, you could do like I did and get him reading at age 6 but have him completely hyperlexic, having no comprehension of what he read at all, lol. Seriously, when I got my ds reading, through a stellar implementation of LIPS + Barton, he couldn't understand "a frog sat on a log." But he had passed the stupid CELF, so we couldn't figure it out. I would come on the boards saying he was a hyperlexic dyslexic, but it sounded pretty whack at the time, lol. Now I have the tests to show it happened and we were able to intervene. But yeah, earlier is not *necessarily* better for all kids. All the pieces have to come together.

Oh, I do get this; it wasn't so much that I wish he'd been *reading* earlier, just that the 2-ish years we (I) spent cobbling together other stuff trying to help.....ugh. Frustrating, for him and me. It may not have gotten him through to where he is now any sooner/earlier, even, because we were able to skip Barton Level 1, but it would have gotten him to where he is with less....stress? angst? frustration? "where do I go from here and what on earth do I do next???" kind of thing. 

Quote

This is wonderful!!! I had one dc for whom those were not hard tasks and my ds for whom those are BIG accomplishments!!! Reading to learn (vs learning to read) is an amazing shift. We *just* started that this year. It was this whole step up, wow. How is he enjoying America the Beautiful, btw? I remember looking at it at a convention and liking it. We do a lot of workbooks right now, things that are brief. (read a page, answer some questions, interact, rinse repeat) What age/stage is your ds now? Are you using the BJU 6 on-level or off? I very much like the BJU science too, good stuff!!

So, he's 14, and going into what we're calling 8th grade. He seems to like America the Beautiful; the questions in it are more obscure than in the BJU stuff, but they do mostly go in order of the text and fall under the correct subheadings, so I've been working with him on stuff like that, how to find the answer by using the clues in the question. That is probably truly his appropriate grade level, and it is a teensy bit more challenging for him than the BJU.  The content of America the Beautiful is good, though, and he likes it. It's straightforward and aside from they sometimes jump around (it's divided topically vs. strict chronological order, sort of), so you would maybe want a timeline to go with it (there are activities listed in the activity manual). If it were up to me, we'd skip some of the questions -- "On page 287, what is happening in the photo on the top left?"  And I am not a fan of the tests for it. At all. Very obscure. But the actual content, workbook part, etc, are good. 

The BJU is a little low for him, but a GREAT confidence building level. It's perfect for him, and he likes science a lot more than history which helps. 

 

Quote

So true!! Around here they have a beautiful new building, and it's literally set up with school rooms and a sort of living room in the (very wide) hall with couches, etc. It's LITERALLY like homeschooling, lol!!! And touring it made me realize what we were doing well, if that makes sense. We're able to use evidence-based practices and high quality materials, whether it's at home or at a specialized school. It's not like they had access to something we don't.

Exactly! That's the feeling I got, too, when we semi-looked. 

Quote

Yes, sigh, that's us. Blew my mind. He just didn't have the language comprehension, still doesn't. I mean, I've worked and worked, and both Sarah, Plain and Tall, and Dr. Doolittle fell flat on him recently. But I've been really excited that the picture books we're getting using the lexile search engine are working!! It's a big deal and so fun here. We just need to go back and work on syntax and sentence complexity to get his comprehension up the rest of the way, sigh. That's where op wants language testing. Dyslexia *is* considered a language disability within the SLP world, but the extent of what is going on really varies.

He's improved a lot lately, his brothers took over reading to him at bedtime the last few years and went through all the Percy Jackson (and the other Rick Riordian) books with him as read-alouds, and he enjoyed those, a lot. Probably in the last.....two years?....he's been able to listen to read-alouds and get them. Also Roald Dahl stuff was easy to follow even earlier for him; he writes in a manner that seems to help, or at least, helped my kiddo. So, he could follow Charlie & the Chocolate Factory.....but not Bunnicula (this was around age 8 or so). Mainly due to the dialogue.

 

Quote

This is AMAZING!!! Love it. So what types of things does he do well with independently? 

Mainly in that he's able to sit down with the worksheets from the BJU Science and do those; look at the question, read it, find the answer in the text, fill it in, etc. To an extent for history as well, but he fatigues to do both of them on the same day still, so we end up doing the history orally. Then he does writing stuff on his own now - his history teacher assigns a lot of comic strips as options for papers, narrations, reports, etc. and he LOVES to do those. LOVES THEM. He'll do all the drawing and then bring it to me and dictate the captions, but it's all there in his head planned out, who says what, etc. and the exact wording.  They had to do a paper where they made up a story inspired by a Norman Rockwell painting - we found one of a pirate! and he was hooked; that one I showed him how to use the speech to text on his "notes" function on his phone, but he ended up typing it instead. Now, it took him a span of time here & there over the course of 2 weeks, but he typed the entire thing on his phone (only because we'd thought he'd use the speech to text; otherwise I'd have had him use the computer from the get-go) and then emailed it to me. All I had to fix was the formatting of the dialogue sections, and a few minor typos/spelling errors. 

Math he can work independently, but he's always learned math differently/intuitively, so while his list of dx'es includes "probably dyscalculia" as well as the dyslexia, that is more due to gaps we had (like, he still doesn't keep straight the days of the week, months of the year, time, etc...) and not so much due to any disability in learning math. 

That's about all we do, honestly, but the sheer fact he's able to do it on his own vs. all of it orally and me scribing is pretty good.  Oh, he also does map work in class on his own. 

 

Quote

Just to assuage your guilt a bit on the late thing, I'll just point out that Barton too early might not have been a good fit either. That's what my ds was doing at 6 when he went so hyperlexic. If that language is delayed at all, it's going to be an issue. So maybe don't guilt yourself there.

Thanks; I appreciate that! 

[TheReader]

10 hours ago, PeterPan said:

 

Yes, when we started LIPS+ Barton, I added in work for working memory. We did it 3-4X a day in short bursts, and we did it a different way each time. So we might do digit spans, playing Simon Says where he would repeat and then do a sequence of commands (tap your 3 X, jump, etc.), something for visual memory (memory game, the $5 kind from Walmart), or a game that used a lot of working memory to score like Ticket to Ride. We also used A Fist Full of Coins.

Yes, we did tons (TONS) of this too. I have a whole slew of games we used. Also we used a lot of hidden pictures (like from Highlights), and games like Set, Dwarves & Dice, etc. that all got him scanning for visual similarities & differences. We had so.very.much. work to do when he first got dx'ed before we even began to think about "learning to read." 

[Terabith]

Totally off topic, but my dyslexic kid got started really reading independently with the Warriors books, too.  They were way, way above her reading level...I really thought it was ridiculous and destined to fail, but her friends were reading them so she was determined to, too.  And she did.  Good comprehension, even when she could only decode one word out of ten.  But she’s insanely good at context clues.  She would never have learned to read in a regular literacy class that encouraged that because she’s SO good at guessing that it would have worked for her more or less indefinitely and she wouldn’t have needed to develop the skills to read the actual words.  

[Pen]

 

On 4/28/2019 at 3:05 PM, Rebecca said:

Also, what happens if I don't pass the Barton tutor screening? Any help for that?

 

You could work on remediation missing skills in yourself or you could look at a different dyslexia reading program.

 

[Storygirl]

You've gotten a lot of good advice so far, but I will chime in, because DD13 goes to a dyslexia school. She homeschooled PreK-3rd and attended a private Christian school for 4th (with afterschool tutoring by a teacher with OG training), before transferring to the dyslexia school for 5th-7th. She got her official diagnosis of dyslexia the summer between third and fourth grades, but I always knew.

I agree that a dedicated parent can learn how to remediate dyslexia. But it's also very hard work and requires a lot of time spent one on one, so it can be challenging to find the time to do it, while also meeting the needs of other children. I have four children, two of whom have LDs, and one of whom had other issues affecting my ability to successfully homeschool him. My oldest has no LDs but needed a lot of one-on-one help with writing and math. I reached a point where I could not split my attention among them and be confident that I was giving them what they needed, and I became burned out while trying, so we enrolled them in school.

If I had had just DD13's dyslexia to address and could devote myself just to teaching her, I am confident that I could have done it. As much as I wanted to, however, I couldn't juggle everything on my plate.

The tutor during fourth grade was awesome and managed to break through the dyslexia issues with OG methods in a way I had not been able to over all of my years of teaching DD to read, so I am also a big fan of tutoring, if you have an OG tutor available.

She has had a great experience at the dyslexia school and is going to transfer into public school for eighth grade. She wants to try, and we think she is ready. It's actually the norm for students to attend the school for two to four years and then transfer back to their public school once they are ready.

Teaching her yourself with therapy-level materials, hiring a tutor, or enrolling in the dyslexia school are all valid options to consider. Because you have another child with learning issues to educate, you'll have to weigh out whether you will have enough time to give each of them what they need. It's possible to homeschool multiple children with LDs, and there are people on the boards who do it, but it is really tough.

It's worth talking to your dyslexia school. Visit, tour, ask questions, attend an open house, show them her testing and ask for their opinion -- you can do all of these things without paying them a thing, so it's worth it! They can explain to you how their financial aid works and whether their students have other ways to pay (for example, they will know of any scholarships that might be in your area). They also may be able to direct you to other resources (or tutors) in your community.

It's great that you are exploring the homeschooling resources available for dyslexia. When I was homeschooling DD13 before grade four, I spun my wheels a lot, trying to make progress with programs such as Dancing Bears, All about Spelling, and Sequential Spelling (plus others that supposedly were good for dyslexics). By third grade, DD13 could read a second to third grade book, so she was learning. But it was a terribly hard slog, and I could tell that her dyslexia was not being remediated. That is when we started looking at other options for her. If we had continued to homeschool, I would have used Barton. I realized that she needed a therapy-level intervention. Because you are dealing with a severe case in your dd, my advice is to jump right into Barton or something similar, instead of trying something cheaper or more mainstream first. Yes, tutoring or Barton or the dyslexia school are expensive, but the cost is necessary.

There is a public school near us that has made a deliberate choice to train teachers in OG and do a great job with intervention with reading disabilities. You may find that you are one of the fortunate few that has such a gem of a public school nearby, so it's worth asking questions of the public school, as well.

[Storygirl]

I'll echo Pen's point that some public schools will provide some services to homeschoolers. But many do not. You can call and talk to someone in your public school special education department to see if they have things that homeschoolers can access, like speech therapy.

You can also see if there is any funding for educating those with disabilities at the state level. We live in a state with a disability scholarship program, and I didn't know about it for a long time. Sometimes things like this are not well known, so don't assume you don't have one. You may be able to google it. Or check your state department of education website (often a lot of good info on there). Or call and ask the dyslexia school about this. Our dyslexia school has as part of its mandate to be of service to the wider community, and not just the enrolled students, so they are always willing to talk to people who just call in and ask questions. I imagine a lot of the schools for learning disabled students are like this, because they care about their mission.

[TheReader]

Storygirl brings up a very good point; it is a LOT of work. I couldn't have done it at home, probably, if he wasn't my youngest and thus the only one needing real one-on-one attention. 

[Rebecca]

I live in Maryland (i.e. Kennedy Krieger as an option for us)- and apparently there is a bill/legislation going into motion for early intervention for learning disabilities including dyslexia in public schools. However, our public schools (in my county) will absolutely not help a family at all if they are not enrolled. Legally, they are supposed to provide screening. They do not provide services. However, I did not get screening through them. They made it very difficult, did not return my phone calls, etc, etc.  

How do I find out about disability grants/funding/scholarships? I did a quick google search- but didn't get very far at all. There is an advocacy group called Decoding Dyslexia- but I haven't found any funding for private school. Everything is geared to the public school. Public school is not an option for us at this time.  I see StoryGirl recommended the state department of education website- so I will check that out.

Does anyone have any other advice as to how to find a good tutor?  I also see that StoryGirl recommended the dyslexia school to find resources such as tutors. There are several schools in relatively close distance to me. How do I know which to choose? I don't really have anyone irl to recommend anything to me-

Thank you for all the fantastic insight and advice. I vacillate between feeling like I will be able to do this - to feeling like I need professional help that I don't even understand yet- and how will I ever make it work financially.

-Rebecca

 

 

[Rebecca]

For background-

I have nine kids. One is in college; one is heading to college. The rest are all at home with me- but outsource different classes depending on their age and level. 

My oldest daughter is one of the girls heading to therapy soon- she is almost fifteen. She dances many hours a week(ballet, modern, acro, and  weekly rehearsals), and I have actually realized in some ways- it is therapy for her- and helping develop her expressive/receptive language skills. I pay a lot for her to dance but have realized how essential it is for her on so many levels. 

My dyslexic daughter is seven and a half and has a fraternal twin sister. I also have a six year old (Kindergartener). 

This all alarms me because it is a huge factor in how I will be able to make this journey work for all of us. 

Thank you for your candid insights and advice!

[PeterPan]

Part of the issue with the intervention is figuring out how many kids are similar. Like if 4 of the kids you're teaching at home are dyslexic and you do Barton with all of them, boom, that can work. But you go adding in further language disabilities affecting expressive/receptive language, that's going to be a lot more complicated. That's going to affect reading comprehension, writing, and you just added a lot of challenge. 

The other thing you could do is examine whether you can move *closer* to therapies. If your dc are going to need significant amounts of therapies, that's another way to do it.

[Storygirl]

I'm sorry your school wasn't responsive. If you discover that you need them to evaluate her to qualify for an IEP, so that you can access scholarships (that is how it is in my state -- for the scholarship, the student needs an IEP), boardies can give you some tips. For example, you might be able to talk to someone and get some info on the phone, but to get their attention and start the evaluation process legally, you have to make your request to the schools in writing. If it's not in writing, they don't get in trouble if they ignore you, but if it is in writing, they have a legal duty to respond.

About moving.....it's a really radical idea and hard to think about doing, because it changes your whole life and is expensive.

But we did it. So some people do.

Nine kids is more than double what I have, so it sounds like it would be hard, to me. But every family is different. There are some on the boards who have around the same number of kids and have homeschooled some with dyslexia. They may not be reading this thread, but you might call them out of lurking if you start a thread here or on the Chat board about dyslexia (or learning disabilities) and large families.

[Storygirl]

As for how to find out about scholarships -- the dyslexia school will know, for sure. Did you mean there are more than one near you? Call them up and have a good chat. They will have someone in admissions who can talk to you, or they might have a community relations kind of person on staff.

If you are on Facebook, you can see if there are any groups related to dyslexia in your area. I am not a FB person, but I know people do gather information by networking that way.

[Lecka]

Okay, I would consider this a worst-case scenario for you.  Iirc the Barton website says 3 hours a week is the minimum needed for kids to progress with the program.

So if nothing else works out for you, do you think you can spend 3 hours a week on Barton?

If you can — I think this is realistically what a lot of kids get who work with a private tutor.  I think it’s realistically what a lot of kids get through many school settings (as far as 1:1).  

You do also have speech therapy lined up, and hopefully, since you are being referred through a dyslexia evaluation, the speech therapy will be able to incorporate literacy in some way.  And you will be able to talk to the speech therapist as well about how your daughter is doing.  The speech therapist probably will be able to tell you about where your daughter needs to work on things.

My son was in 1st grade when he was doing this speech therapy, and he had 3x/week at public school and 2x/week at a speech clinic.  

At the speech clinic they told me they usually would be finished in 3-4 months, and my son took more than twice that long.  But still — even though it was very slow at the time, he did make progress.  

His speech therapy included phonological processing because one of the reasons he wasn’t saying words correctly was that he wasn’t hearing the words correctly.  It is very frustrating and his articulation was poor enough to impact intelligibility, and he would be very frustrated when people had a hard time understanding him.  

Anyway — I do hope you can do better than the minimum.  But the minimum is enough for kids to progress and learn.  It really is.  You are starting with a young child, too.  

Anyway — nobody can predict the future, and I *absolutely* think it is worth exploring all your options, but 3 hours a week from a scripted program with DVD lessons —————— this is doable, and it is the worst-case scenario.

On this forum it seems like many parents spend 3 months on LIPS.  So — it is not something that lasts forever.  (Foundations in Sound is just a newer program — maybe you can ask about that on Facebook somewhere).  

I think when you talk to dyslexia schools, as them how much time per day is spent directly on remediation.  Then you can know that.  They do more than remediation, but a lot of it is based on — not putting kids in a bad situation like they might be in in a default public school classroom. Well — you don’t need to worry about providing an alternative to a default public school classroom, because that is not an option for you.  So — I do think the “more” that they provide is going to be good things and maybe you can get ideas and find out what curriculums (or approaches) they use, and that is all very helpful whether she would attend or not.

But I have an impression that a lot spend an hour a day on direct reading remediation (1:1 or small group) and I think that’s because that is a really reasonable amount.  I would definitely ask this.  

Because if you do want to know how much time they spend — you can ask and find out.  

Anyway — I am trying to be encouraging.  It is a lot at first, but unknowns slowly start to be replaced with more knowledge and information. And it is very depressing to fail the Barton student screening, but it is pretty likely that one year from now your daughter will pass it.  And it is a long time, but it is also not that long!  And she also might pass it much more quickly.  Or she might pass it a little more slowly, but in a year I am sure you will be seeing progress, which goes a long way.  

[Lecka]

This is another “maybe” worst-case scenario.  I know someone who couldn’t find a tutor and couldn’t do Barton herself.  She found a person with no prior tutoring experience, and paid that person to watch the Barton DVDs and tutor her son.  

And he made great progress!

This is not the most ideal — but it worked out well for them.  

[Storygirl]

I'm pretty sure that someone on the LC boards in the past had a grandmother do the Barton tutoring. And someone else did it with a Barton tutor via Skype. I think an in-person interaction would be best, especially because Barton has letter tiles to move around, and it would be easier for someone in person to see everything about the student's work. But online tutoring could be an option.

At age 7, if the only school she did for awhile was Barton and math and listened to some readalouds, it would be fine. If your state has requirements that you have to meet for social studies and science and so on, you can do that with readalouds or videos and also lump several of your children together for that.

Also, as you think through things, don't forget to leave time for something fun or something that plays to her strengths. You don't want all of school to be hard. Having her willing to work with you is important, so make sure that some things you do together are fun.

 

[Rebecca]

I took the Barton Screening. I am not sure how to qualify how I did on it. I missed a couple sounds on the first part- I think.

for example, I wasn't sure if FR was one sound (like SH or CH) but it was two. I also always "hear" a "t" in a word like BATCH.- and I just have to remind myself to ignore the spelling rule, etc- but it is automatic because I am a visual person not auditory.

The second part- I got fully correct.

However, I was reviewing the screening again and not watching it- while I checked on something else- and during that time I heard "THUMB" incorrectly- when I did hear it right the first time- when I was watching her and focusing. This worried me, too.

I do think I can hear the sounds and would be able to help/correct my DD during lessons- but I do not want to mess this up!!!!

-Rebecca

[Lecka]

As far as “fr,” do you hear both sounds and could you spell a word with “fr”? 

To me I think that is something where you didn’t know and now it’s like — now you know, you realize now and you’ve got it.  It is learning just how they want you to segment, but you CAN segment.

A problem to me would be:  you don’t know if you heard an l or an r (for the r).  You aren’t sure if you heard an r at all.  

Or you missed it because you can’t segment “fr,” because you don’t know what the sounds are, not because you didn’t realize they wanted you to segment the two consonants.  

Do you think you can tell apart the words “thumb” and “thump”?  Do you think you can tell apart the words, “fog” and “frog”?  Now that you know they want you to segment consonant blends, can you do it?

Here is a mistake my 14-year-old made yesterday:  I asked him what he was doing in Technology, and he was vague.  Then he said “I think it’s smoldering.”  I said, “could it be soldering?”  He said yes, soldering.  Then I repeated the word soldering for him a few times slowly and he said it properly.  

But something about hearing the teacher say “soldering” in class he wasn’t quite sure what the word was.  Or, maybe he didn’t quite remember it, but usually I think he hasn’t been sure in the first place.  

Now — once in a while things like this come up, but he CAN segment words with consonant blends.  

But he used to have words like this with one-syllable words.  

My younger son, earlier this week,” was saying “booby track” instead of “booby trap.”  

This is just me, but to me this is the kind of thing that would be more of a problem, and then I think just not realizing to segment fr is not a big deal.  

I think if you see phonograms like ch, tch, sh, wh, ph, then you can remember they are phonograms, and then if it’s not a phonogram then you do segment it.  

I think it’s different than if you actually can’t segment a word with fr.  

This is just my opinion, but it’s what I think.  I think you could also email about it to ask.  But if you feel like it’s more “I made a mistake from not realizing” then I would not worry about it.  

 

[Lecka]

I had a similar moment with “walk” and I think I hear an l sound.  But I have listened to myself and I don’t say an l when I say walk in a sentence.  I think this is me “pronouncing for spelling.”  I felt like that about tch also.  But for me it’s like — once I know “they are counting al as one thing” or “they are counting tch as one thing” then I am fine.

If you missed “thumb” from thinking there was a b at the end as a separate sound — I think if you get it now, that is the main thing.  

[PeterPan]

33 minutes ago, Rebecca said:

I took the Barton Screening. I am not sure how to qualify how I did on it. I missed a couple sounds on the first part- I think.

I would call Barton and talk it through with her. She's a lovely lady and doesn't bite. 

[caedmyn]

Haven’t read the whole thread, but I’ve done LIPS with 1 kid and FiS with one if anyone has questions about how they differ.

[Rebecca]

Do you have suggestions or opinions re: either program? 

I think I feel more comfortable trying to begin with Foundation in Sounds.

Do I need to be trained to implement LIPS?

10 minutes ago, caedmyn said:

Haven’t read the whole thread, but I’ve done LIPS with 1 kid and FiS with one if anyone has questions about how they differ.

 Thank you!!!!

[PeterPan]

4 hours ago, caedmyn said:

Haven’t read the whole thread, but I’ve done LIPS with 1 kid and FiS with one if anyone has questions about how they differ.

I'd love to hear!!!

[ktgrok]

So, first, breathe, and then give yourself time to process all this. 

For me, it was hard hearing my daughter had dyslexia. But we've accepted it, and she's doing SO well. 

She passed the initial Barton screening, so we started with Barton level 1. And oh my goodness - it was like you could SEE her brain rewiring as she worked through it. It was amazing. She actually did so well that we decided to take a chance and try another program (also designed for dyslexia) that was more efficient, so that she could move ahead faster. That program was Abecedarian, and she ROCKED it. She worked so hard, and in a bit over 6 months we went through the short version of Level A, and then Levels B1 and B2, which meant that she went from reading at a beginning kindergarten level to end of 2nd grade level in just over 6 months. Now, we couldn't have done that without first doing Level 1 of Barton. We needed that foundation, and it really did help retrain her brain. And it taught me HOW to teach her, how to break things down, etc. 

We had spent years trying All About Reading, Dancing Bears, Ordinary Parents Guide to Reading, Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Lessons, and a few others. But nothing worked, because she wasn't using the proper part of her brain - she wasn't able to map the sounds to the letters. There was NO fluency, even when she could sound things out. Barton, plus the research I did, allowed us to get past that. 

I will say, that we did pretty much nothing but math and reading that 6 months. We listened to some audio history in the car, watched some documentaries and a lot of PBS kids, but mostly math and reading. And that was the right call. Now, this year, we are making progress on spelling, but we held off on spelling until her reading was at a point where I felt we could switch gears. Now that she has that part of her brain working, we are seeing good progress with All About Spelling. But it never would have worked if we hadn't done Barton and Abecedarian first. 

I guess my point it, take 6 months to a year and focus on just math (I read all directions, word problems, etc to her) and reading with her. Do the bare minimum for the kindergarten kid - some math worksheets, handwriting page, and phonics. You can do this! 

Also, educate yourself on the brain mechanisms involved in dyslexia. The more you understand it the better you can help your daughter. The Reading League has a series of videos on youtube that are excellent, and this book is THICK but excellent. https://www.amazon.com/Essentials-Preventing-Overcoming-Difficulties-Psychological/dp/1118845242/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2W5G2ULN6HEB0&keywords=essentials+of+assessing+preventing+and+overcoming+reading&qid=1557371030&s=gateway&sprefix=reading+and+as%2Caps%2C144&sr=8-2

[Lecka]

That looks like a great book!  I am glad there is a new (to me, lol) book out, because I have enough frustrations with Overcoming Dyslexia that I don’t really like to recommend it, but it was the best book out ten years ago!

Awesome progress 🙂

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, Lecka said:

That looks like a great book!  I am glad there is a new (to me, lol) book out, because I have enough frustrations with Overcoming Dyslexia that I don’t really like to recommend it, but it was the best book out ten years ago!

Awesome progress 🙂

It really is amazing. A friend who is a reading specialist and OG certified recommended it to me. I've also found lectures by him on youtube. 

[caedmyn]

On 5/1/2019 at 6:26 AM, Rebecca said:

Do you have suggestions or opinions re: either program? 

I think I feel more comfortable trying to begin with Foundation in Sounds.

Do I need to be trained to implement LIPS?

 Thank you!!!!

Forgot to come back to this.  FiS is definitely more teacher-friendly.  LiPS and Barton say you need training to do LiPS but I and others on this board did it without training.  I will say that I didn't do the full LiPS program.  I just introduced all the consonants and we played with them some (don't remember the specifics of what LiPS suggested as it's been a few years) and then we moved back to Barton because I started it when my DS was most of the way through Barton Level 1 (long story) so I already knew he could distinguish between vowels and do the sound chains or whatever LiPS calls them.  I did LiPS with one child and FiS with another because I had a small baby and didn't feel like figuring out LiPS again.

Three things I didn't like about FiS: One, it uses pictures for the sounds instead of pictures of the mouth shape made by the sound like LiPS.  I'm guessing that they did this because Barton recommends drawing a picture to go along with a sound if the child is having trouble remembering what sound a letter makes. But to me it makes more sense to use the mouth pictures, and I suspect some kids would have an easier time with being able to see the mouth picture as a reminder.  I am no expert though.  My DS has done quite a bit of speech therapy so he did ok with the pictures.  You could certainly buy the mouth pictures alone directly from LiPS if you felt they were needed and go through the steps with first the mouth pictures, then the picture cards, then the blank tiles.

Two, FiS has very minimal troubleshooting included, none of which addressed the particular issues my child was having.  Others who've used it have said they provide better troubleshooting if you call them but I didn't try.  I wish there was more included like Barton includes quite a bit in their manuals.

Three: Once most or all of the sounds were introduced, the process of pulling down the matching picture cards for 3 letter combinations was very difficult for my DS.  He clearly has some major working memory issues, and trying to find the right card while remembering what sound he was looking for was really, really hard for him.   He did it with little trouble with the tiles though, so I ended up skipping the picture/sound-finding section in the last few lessons of FiS.  IMO it would have been way better if they would have limited the number of cards needed for that section with each lesson since working memory issues are so common with dyslexia.

I could be wrong, but I suspect the creators for FiS are parents of a child who needed it or LiPS.  It is definitely modeled after Barton and seems different enough from LiPS that I wonder if they don't have any speech therapy background or actual LiPS training.