Apples and Pears questions, and MCP plaid or maybe I should just title this LA in general.

[Dudley]

I have 2nd grader who doesn't like to write. No tears, just stalling, avoiding, and asking/whining to do less.    I was looking at Apples and Pears spelling and the comments on it being lots of writing. So Initially I would run away from it. But I have got to thinking...I might be able to drop some of the other writing he does in favor of Apples and Pears Spelling and also split up the lessons.  Some of the things I have noticed this year:  The WWE2 dictations are above his spelling level.  Wouldnt it make sense to do sentences that have more words he could spell? Is there something special about WWE dictation sentences except that she points out the mechanics with each one?  One nice thing about WWE/WWS is that the skills grow steadily, so that is one advantage I guess. We love the narration passages, but I am shortening the dictation passages to be more tolerable for him. 

I'm also coming to believe that good spelling comes with practice. One of the reasons I got MCP plaid is there is lots of opportunity to practice writing words with focus on phonograms, hearing the different sounds, adding endings,prefixes, looking at roots. We also switched from LOE D to SWR at Christmas to drill some of those easier words he want getting enough.  And being an Engineer I love the rules and the way SWR uses them.:)  I'm not using it to its full potential though, just cuz I'm trying to keep it short and sweet and let the MCP plaid be more of the practice, though hes  not practicing the words he is learning in SWR there. I've seen some improvement in his dictation (asking for less help on the easy words and more spelled right) still hard but any progress is good, amen?

Currently I have worked him up to tolerating the following for LA:

1 MCP plaid C phonics page each day (most of it anyway) 10-20 words

SWR  (write 10 words M & Tu, Oral on W, 1 ,maybe 2, dictation sentences TH, and F test on 20 words on white board)

WWE2 (T,W shortened copy work or dictation and F he writes one sentence of his Th narration)

RFH we do at a separate time daily with a friend and once or twice  a week a sentence for history.

FLL2 , vocab all oral

So I got to thinking that next year maybe apples and pears would be alittle more cohesive. And I could cut out some other things.  I could cut MCP Plaid (though I already bought it ) because I would be getting the practice, though I still feel like I would be missing something, D goes over alot of advance phonograms that look helpful, but it also feels like there is too much repetition in there, I just dont know how to cut, (and D is just 1 color) .  I could drop SWR and still use my knowledge of the rules to reinforce and I could drop the Dictations from WWE3, which looked alittle hard to condense.  I think I would still like to use the narrations and composing days of WWE , but might still feel like I am missing out. Its alittle hard to give up SWR too, even though I dont do all the steps I should , it just makes sense to me.  My plan all along has been to move to Megawords around 4th grade, so not quite sure how I would make that transition, if I still wanted to .  And starting with A in third grade I think I would feel the need to push him more than I should.. instead of going at a pace his writing could handle...

So next year - 3rd Grade should  I do

apples and pears (starting 1/2 way though A) - and narration/composition days of WWE3 ?

OR  MCP Plaid D, SWR , and WWE3?

either way he will do R&S english 3  mostly oral (grammar sections), RFH, and some history sentences.

I guess I need some help on how well apples and pears can fill the hole if i drop MCP plaid. and that the dictations in there will be enough to replace WWE. Are there parts he could do on a white board? he is happier on a white board. And then the question you can't answer, will I be able to adapt to keep him from freaking out at the amount of writing?

[HomeAgain]

I have no idea what is the right answer here, but I tend to plot out my kid's work with the expected time.  I allot about an hour to language arts for my 3rd grader.  It's broken down like this:
-5 minutes handwriting practice
-10 minutes spelling (Dictation Day By Day - we go over the new words, point out spelling patterns, and I dictate the passage)
-25 minutes writing instruction.  Not all of that is writing.  It is going over grammar, talking about the structure, and eventually writing a short piece with support and encouragement.
-20 minutes reading (short story, discussion afterward)

My goal is to keep lessons short still so that he focuses on doing *well*, not just producing work.  Next year for 4th it will be similar, but there will be copywork included more during our writing time.  I don't want a bunch of moving parts and things I would have to juggle.  It sounds like you have a lot of options on the table, and I wish you the best of luck in deciding what you should keep a steady path with and what isn't necessary.

[almondbutterandjelly]

Go with your Mama Gut.  I can tell you that I bought Plaid and never used it.  WWE we were about two years behind, and we NEVER did dictation in it.  Rod and Staff English like to killed my dd.  She literally said it was invented to torture children (and we did it orally, too, by the way).

I have not used the other programs.  Just remember they are still so little at that age.  They don't need to do a ton of writing.

[Ellie]

On 4/25/2019 at 11:51 PM, Dudley said:

I have 2nd grader who doesn't like to write. No tears, just stalling, avoiding, and asking/whining to do less.    I was looking at Apples and Pears spelling and the comments on it being lots of writing. So Initially I would run away from it. But I have got to thinking...I might be able to drop some of the other writing he does in favor of Apples and Pears Spelling and also split up the lessons.  Some of the things I have noticed this year:  The WWE2 dictations are above his spelling level.  Wouldnt it make sense to do sentences that have more words he could spell? Is there something special about WWE dictation sentences except that she points out the mechanics with each one?  One nice thing about WWE/WWS is that the skills grow steadily, so that is one advantage I guess. We love the narration passages, but I am shortening the dictation passages to be more tolerable for him. 

I'm also coming to believe that good spelling comes with practice. One of the reasons I got MCP plaid is there is lots of opportunity to practice writing words with focus on phonograms, hearing the different sounds, adding endings,prefixes, looking at roots. We also switched from LOE D to SWR at Christmas to drill some of those easier words he want getting enough.  And being an Engineer I love the rules and the way SWR uses them.:)  I'm not using it to its full potential though, just cuz I'm trying to keep it short and sweet and let the MCP plaid be more of the practice, though hes  not practicing the words he is learning in SWR there. I've seen some improvement in his dictation (asking for less help on the easy words and more spelled right) still hard but any progress is good, amen?

Currently I have worked him up to tolerating the following for LA:

1 MCP plaid C phonics page each day (most of it anyway) 10-20 words

SWR  (write 10 words M & Tu, Oral on W, 1 ,maybe 2, dictation sentences TH, and F test on 20 words on white board)

WWE2 (T,W shortened copy work or dictation and F he writes one sentence of his Th narration)

RFH we do at a separate time daily with a friend and once or twice  a week a sentence for history.

FLL2 , vocab all oral

So I got to thinking that next year maybe apples and pears would be alittle more cohesive. And I could cut out some other things.  I could cut MCP Plaid (though I already bought it ) because I would be getting the practice, though I still feel like I would be missing something, D goes over alot of advance phonograms that look helpful, but it also feels like there is too much repetition in there, I just dont know how to cut, (and D is just 1 color) .  I could drop SWR and still use my knowledge of the rules to reinforce and I could drop the Dictations from WWE3, which looked alittle hard to condense.  I think I would still like to use the narrations and composing days of WWE , but might still feel like I am missing out. Its alittle hard to give up SWR too, even though I dont do all the steps I should , it just makes sense to me.  My plan all along has been to move to Megawords around 4th grade, so not quite sure how I would make that transition, if I still wanted to .  And starting with A in third grade I think I would feel the need to push him more than I should.. instead of going at a pace his writing could handle...

So next year - 3rd Grade should  I do

apples and pears (starting 1/2 way though A) - and narration/composition days of WWE3 ?

OR  MCP Plaid D, SWR , and WWE3?

either way he will do R&S english 3  mostly oral (grammar sections), RFH, and some history sentences.

I guess I need some help on how well apples and pears can fill the hole if i drop MCP plaid. and that the dictations in there will be enough to replace WWE. Are there parts he could do on a white board? he is happier on a white board. And then the question you can't answer, will I be able to adapt to keep him from freaking out at the amount of writing?

That's a lot of English stuff for a little 7yo person. o_0

Next year, I would continue SWR and drop MCP. SWR is covering phonics as well as spelling, and it does a better job, IMHO, so there's no reason to do both. In fact, I would consider doing SWR to its full potential for a year and see how that goes (and that would also mean no Megawords).

If you want only grammar, I wouldn't do R&S. Maybe something like Analytical Grammar, which is only grammar. OTOH, you could let formal grammar go this year; with a complete SWR and WWE3, your little guy would have a pretty good English course going on.

Edited April 27, 2019 by Ellie

[blondeviolin]

Gonna agree you have a lot going on. I have a 7yo second grader. This year he did ETC, SYS, FLL, and half of WWS 2. Next year he will do R&S Spelling, SYS (we use this like copywork), the other half of WWE 2 and FLL 3 (which is workbook). 

I’d pick one spelling OR phonics, one writing, and MAYBE a sentence or two of copywork. 

I wouldn’t condense dictation in WWE 2. If he needs help with spelling, give it. If the dictation is too hard due to length or something else, pause or go back and rebuild skills. He’s still young. He has PLENTY of time to do hard things. When he says his hand hurts, it really does! 

FWIW, if you plan to move WWS, you’ve got until at least sixth grade (and the same with GFWTM) so take your time with this stage. Err on the side of too easy. 

Edited April 28, 2019 by blondeviolin