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My 15 yo is doing great in Chemistry. He skipped biology because he really doesn't want to do it. He loves animals very much and can't handle the dissections. Generally he complains but does the classes I request him to do, so his next science is Bio, and he is really putting on the breaks. 

Any other science that colleges accept in place of biology? We have no idea what he wants to do for his future, so we are aiming for college. 

He can take bio for non major at the community college, or Apologia Bio from the best science teacher at co-op. 

I would rather he have another choice.

Thanks

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There is absolutely no need for dissections in a high school biology course. You don't even need to do virtual ones. If he enjoys chemistry, build the bio course around biochemistry.

And yes, there are plenty other sciences he can take, unless his college of choice specifically requires him to have a biology course for admission

Edited by regentrude
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On 4/19/2019 at 10:48 AM, regentrude said:

There is absolutely no need for dissections in a high school biology course. You don't even need to do virtual ones. If he enjoys chemistry, build the bio course around biochemistry.

And yes, there are plenty other sciences he can take, unless his college of choice specifically requires him to have a biology course for admission

This is really my biggest question. We are in Texas and most of the colleges require chem and biology. Would biochemistry count as biology? Or is he just stuck following the herd? 

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When I put together my class, I aligned it with TN standards. Over the past few years, I've checked CA and NY.  For all 3 of those, 3/4 of the course is molecular biology - molecules, cells, DNA/transcription/translation, cell division, and genetics.  The rest is ecology, classification, and evolution.  You don't need to plan an alternative biology class - it should be possible to find a syllabus or course that doesn't include it.  

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Most schools say "a biological science." So you could do, say, botany. But I agree with the above - while dissections can be part of a high school bio class, there are other labs you can do. Or you don't have to do labs at all. Most schools want two lab sciences, but biology could be a conceptual science with no labs and you could do physics and chemistry (or some other combo) of classes with labs.

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3 hours ago, MommaBea said:

This is really my biggest question. We are in Texas and most of the colleges require chem and biology. Would biochemistry count as biology? Or is he just stuck following the herd? 

You can design your biology course to be biochem heavy.  Modern biology courses have a ton of biochem. YOU get to create the biology class that works for him.

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My son flat out refused to do dissections.  We still managed to do about 20 biology labs, so his refusal didn’t slow us down at all.  🙂.  

We pulled labs from this lab book.  It’s free to download online, or you can buy a printed version.  Here’s the PDF so you can check out the labs to see what labs are available for biology that have nothing to do with dissections:  

https://www.thehomescientist.com/manuals/Illustrated_Guide_to_Home_Biology_Experiments.pdf

I got this lab kit to go with the lab book if you want to see what was included.  Note there were no dead animals or dissection tools included:

https://www.thehomescientist.com/bk01-main.php

And we also got a refurbished microscope which was necessary for a number of the labs in the book.

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Modern biology is about cell and molecular biology, evolution, and ecology.  No need for dissections.

Also, given that he is a human being with biological systems that keep him alive, knowing about biology is important.  Not negotiable, IMO.

Edited by EKS
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1 hour ago, Garga said:

My son flat out refused to do dissections.  We still managed to do about 20 biology labs, so his refusal didn’t slow us down at all.  🙂.  

We pulled labs from this lab book.  It’s free to download online, or you can buy a printed version.  Here’s the PDF so you can check out the labs to see what labs are available for biology that have nothing to do with dissections:  

https://www.thehomescientist.com/manuals/Illustrated_Guide_to_Home_Biology_Experiments.pdf

I got this lab kit to go with the lab book if you want to see what was included.  Note there were no dead animals or dissection tools included:

https://www.thehomescientist.com/bk01-main.php

And we also got a refurbished microscope which was necessary for a number of the labs in the book.

Thank you for the links. I'll look through them with my boy and see what he thinks about it. 

 

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1 hour ago, EKS said:

Modern biology is about cell and molecular biology, evolution, and ecology.  No need for dissections.

Also, given that he is a human being with biological systems that keep him alive, knowing about biology is important.  Not negotiable, IMO.

I agree! We have covered lots of things along these lines in the elementary grades, but not a true biology class. I'm going to look into several other suggested resources and see if I can find one that suits him better.

Thanks for the responses

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15 hours ago, EKS said:

Also, given that he is a human being with biological systems that keep him alive, knowing about biology is important.  Not negotiable, IMO.

Eldest did a bio class (not high school worthy) in 5th. She never took a Bio class in high school & isn't required to take one in college (although Chem & Physics both are). I know a lot of people insist on biology in high school, but I am not one of them. If it is an area of interest or might be required by a college, sure. It is negotiable in our homeschool. (Dd#2 might end up taking zoology, anatomy, & other related classes at the local college for her current intended major. We'll see.)

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21 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

Eldest did a bio class (not high school worthy) in 5th. She never took a Bio class in high school & isn't required to take one in college (although Chem & Physics both are). I know a lot of people insist on biology in high school, but I am not one of them. If it is an area of interest or might be required by a college, sure. It is negotiable in our homeschool. (Dd#2 might end up taking zoology, anatomy, & other related classes at the local college for her current intended major. We'll see.)

Your homeschool, your rules.

That said, I believe that it is critical for citizens of the modern world to have a solid high school level understanding of cell and molecular biology, evolution, and ecology.  Since I have two kids whose life trajectories seem to be in the GEEMP fields (geosciences, engineering, economics, mathematics/computer science, physical science), I thought it was necessary to give them this understanding prior to college, just as I did/am doing with literature and history.

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On 4/20/2019 at 9:49 PM, Garga said:

My son flat out refused to do dissections.  We still managed to do about 20 biology labs, so his refusal didn’t slow us down at all.  🙂.  

We pulled labs from this lab book.  It’s free to download online, or you can buy a printed version.  Here’s the PDF so you can check out the labs to see what labs are available for biology that have nothing to do with dissections:  

https://www.thehomescientist.com/manuals/Illustrated_Guide_to_Home_Biology_Experiments.pdf

I got this lab kit to go with the lab book if you want to see what was included.  Note there were no dead animals or dissection tools included:

https://www.thehomescientist.com/bk01-main.php

And we also got a refurbished microscope which was necessary for a number of the labs in the book.

Thanks for this. The labs look very helpful.  Did you use a textbook also?

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On 4/20/2019 at 8:49 PM, Garga said:

My son flat out refused to do dissections.  We still managed to do about 20 biology labs, so his refusal didn’t slow us down at all.  🙂.  

We pulled labs from this lab book.  It’s free to download online, or you can buy a printed version.  Here’s the PDF so you can check out the labs to see what labs are available for biology that have nothing to do with dissections:  

https://www.thehomescientist.com/manuals/Illustrated_Guide_to_Home_Biology_Experiments.pdf

I got this lab kit to go with the lab book if you want to see what was included.  Note there were no dead animals or dissection tools included:

https://www.thehomescientist.com/bk01-main.php

And we also got a refurbished microscope which was necessary for a number of the labs in the book.

 

TheHomeScientist is still in operation even though Mr. Thompson died? Cool!

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8 hours ago, mom@shiloh said:

Thanks for this. The labs look very helpful.  Did you use a textbook also?

I used a free online text book from Ck-12. 

Here is the link to the student textbook:  https://www.ck12.org/book/CK-12-Biology/

Here is the link to the teacher textbook:  https://www.ck12.org/tebook/CK-12-Biology-Teachers-Edition/

Here is the link to the worksheets that go with each chapter:  https://www.ck12.org/workbook/CK-12-Biology-Workbook/

Here is the link to the tests/quizzes:  https://www.ck12.org/quizbook/CK-12-Biology-Quizzes-and-Tests/

When you've clicked on the teacher's textbook, the worksheets, and the test/quizzes, it looks like on the left you can click on Downoad PDF and sign in to download OR you can click on the "Resources" tab in the middle of the screen and you don't have to download to see the pdf version.  

Important note!!!  The only time the "Resources" tab will show you the pdf, is if you're in the table of contents for whichever book you're looking at.  It will say that there are no resources if you've clicked into a chapter.  The resource tab works only on the table of contents.  And further note, that the resources tab doesn't work for the student text.  For the student text, you'll click on download pdf and then create an account.

That confused me for a bit when I used this book.

Overall, the textbook was solid and what was nice about it being an online book is that there were links to click on that could help explain concepts.  This ck-12 textbook is the one used by the GuestHollow website.  The woman who runs GuestHollow tweaked the CK-12 text, insofar as she added extra links to help explain concepts and she skipped the parts about evolution and added her own information about that.  I chose to stick with the original CK-12 for the most part and would sometimes use the GuestHollow links if one seemed particularly helpful.  Here's the website to her biology program:  https://guesthollow.com/biology/textbook-table-of-contents/.  

And if you've not heard of GuestHollow, she's a homeschooling parent who created various tailored classes for her own student and now offers the tweaked text, extra books, lab sheets, and the schedule that she created for her class.  That way, you don't have to re-create your own biology class from scratch.  You can use what she's already done and follow her schedule if you want to.  I took a bit from what she offered and also tweaked it for myself for my own student.  I can't remember what she charges exactly for each portion of her class.  Some bits were free, and some parts you paid for to get the complete class.

With all that said, you don't have to use GuestHollow, if I was making it sound like you did.  I was just showing you how another homeschooling parent used that text for biology along with some other books to read.  (I didn't have us read any other books as my son is not a big reader and doing the text and worksheets and labs was plenty for him.  It took him about 1.5-2 hours to do biology every day.)

I'm not sure if it's cheaper to use the CK-12 book rather than a traditional textbook or not.  If you don't print it, then it's waaaay cheaper.  But if you do print it, then the printing costs can add up.  

Edited by Garga
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2 hours ago, vonfirmath said:

 

TheHomeScientist is still in operation even though Mr. Thompson died? Cool!

I didn't realize he had died.  But it does look still operational.  I clicked on the links and the website is still live and has a note from the people who've taken it over and you can still order from it.

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My daughter did the following sciences while in high school.

9th: Physical Science
10th: Chemistry (Lab)
11th: G 101: Earth's Dynamic Interior (Lab)
11th: G 102 Earth's Dynamic Surface (Lab)
11th: G 146: Rocks and Minerals (Lab)
12th: ENVS 181: Terrestrial Science (Lab)

We allowed her to study the sciences that interested her at the community college in 11th and 12th grades (namely Geology and Environmental Science) rather than mandating that she study the more traditional Biology in which she had no interest.

Note that she took neither Biology nor Physics.

My daughter applied to ten colleges and was accepted by eight and wait listed by a ninth.  She ended up attending a fairly selective liberal arts college.  None of those ten colleges specifically required Biology, Chemistry, and Physics though all required at least two or three years of science.  Bear in mind that she went on to major in Latin rather than the hard sciences. (She did minor in Geology.)

If you have an idea of any of the colleges or universities to which your son might apply, I'd recommend seeing what sciences they require.


Regards,
Kareni

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My dd followed her interests in science and never took a regular bio class either.

9th AP Psych

summer before 10th: Spectrum Chemistry

10th: Physics (only because she wanted to take a class with her brother)

11th: Anatomy & Physiology I 

12th: Anatomy & Physiology II and/or AP Chemistry

 

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My dd does have a school on her list that requires biology, chemistry and physics in high school. She did a few dissections already and won't do any in high school. I always have thought dissecting a worm was a dubious value, anyhow. The ones she has done would make some squeamish.

Edited by MamaSprout
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7 hours ago, Mom0012 said:

My dd followed her interests in science and never took a regular bio class either.

9th AP Psych

summer before 10th: Spectrum Chemistry

10th: Physics (only because she wanted to take a class with her brother)

11th: Anatomy & Physiology I 

12th: Anatomy & Physiology II and/or AP Chemistry

 

Is Psych considered a science at the high school level? I have it in dd's humanities column and she has too many of those right now.

 

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3 hours ago, MamaSprout said:

Is Psych considered a science at the high school level? I have it in dd's humanities column and she has too many of those right now.

 

I guess there is debate over whether psychology is a science or not. I think I’ve heard it called a soft science. At any rate, that is how I am treating it on my daughter’s transcript.  I never thought about classifying it with the humanities, to be honest. But that’s just me.

 

 

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On 4/19/2019 at 6:25 AM, MommaBea said:

Any other science that colleges accept in place of biology? 

 

Texas high school requirements (https://tea.texas.gov/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=25769809836) has biology listed but I am assuming here that homeschoolers need not abide to apply to state universities. My kids have the option of taking the SAT Biology subject test and getting a decent score (Biology: Score of 540) to satisfy the biology credit by exam path. 

My kids opt to skip biology. Our state universities recommends doing at least two out of three core (physics, chemistry, biology) so my kids opt to do physics and chemistry. One kid would do environmental science, ornithology (bird) and probably astronomy. The other kid is undecided on his non-core science. My younger kid did the Miller Levine Biology book (used for Biology and Biology Honors for my district) in middle school and it was very manageable. I have the actual book (http://www.millerandlevine.com/macaw/chapter/toc.html) and the iBook.

4 hours ago, MamaSprout said:

Is Psych considered a science at the high school level? I have it in dd's humanities column and she has too many of those right now.

 

I have the reverse issue, too many science. My school district puts Psychology as Social Sciences in their catalog together with Economics, and the state universities put Psychology under G) College-preparatory elective.

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36 minutes ago, Mom0012 said:

I guess there is debate over whether psychology is a science or not. I think I’ve heard it called a soft science. At any rate, that is how I am treating it on my daughter’s transcript.  I never thought about classifying it with the humanities, to be honest. But that’s just me.

 

 

Our state online charter classifies psychology as social studies.

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So, the categories I have on my dd’s Transcript are:

World Languages

Math

English

Social Studies

Science

Business

Fine Arts 

PE

In social studies, I have all history and government classes.  Is that where people would put psych?  I was thinking of all the experiments that are done for psych, as well as the anatomy of the brain, as well as all the statistical math (my dd told me she had been introduced to much of the math in her statistics class earlier when she took psych).  When I was thinking of classifying it on the transcript, science seemed the natural location.  I don’t want to look ignorant on her transcript, but maybe I am, lol?  In the end, my dd has enough credits in every category so I can move it anywhere.

And now this has got me wondering about my dd’s Computer science class.  I have it classified as a business course, but now I am remembering someone suggest my dd take that her senior year as a math course.

Sorry for the derail, op.

Edited by Mom0012
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9 minutes ago, Mom0012 said:

So, the categories I have on my dd’s Transcript are:

World Languages

Math

English

Social Studies

Science

Business

Fine Arts 

PE

In social studies, I have all history and government classes.  Is that where people would put psych?  I was thinking of all the experiments that are done for psych, as well as the anatomy of the brain, as well as all the statistical math (my dd told me she had been introduced to much of the math in her statistics class earlier when she took psych).  When I was thinking of classifying it on the transcript, science seemed the natural location.  I don’t want to look ignorant on her transcript, but maybe I am, lol?  In the end, my dd has enough credits in every category so I can move it anywhere.

 

My daughter is taking 2 classes at the local high school, they classify psychology as social studies.  They do a lot of experiments and have studied the anatomy of the brain, still social studies.  She is really enjoying it, though, I plan to modify her next year's advanced biology and add in some neuroscience and subtract a chapter that doesn't interest her. This is the book I got, it is quite good, it is up to date in the dyslexia/how the brain processes language area, an area of neuroscience I keep up to date with, so I assume the rest of the book is good, too:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1316507904/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s03?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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On April 20, 2019 at 3:16 PM, MommaBea said:

This is really my biggest question. We are in Texas and most of the colleges require chem and biology. Would biochemistry count as biology? Or is he just stuck following the herd? 

I would do regular biology but subtract the things he is not interested in and add in biochemistry.

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6 minutes ago, Mom0012 said:

So, the categories I have on my dd’s Transcript are:

 

My kids want commuter universities at the moment so I followed UC admission categories for their transcript (quoted is minimum requirement to be completed by end of 10th grade)


“The 15 courses are:

a. History

b. English

c. Mathematics

d. Laboratory science

Two years of college-preparatory laboratory science, including or integrating topics that provide fundamental knowledge in two of these three subjects: biology, chemistry, or physics. One year of approved interdisciplinary or earth and space sciences coursework can meet one year of the requirement. Computer Science, Engineering, Applied Science courses can be used in area D as an additional laboratory science (i.e., third year and beyond).

AP or IB Examination

Score of 3, 4 or 5 on any two AP Exams in Biology, Chemistry, Physics (B, C, 1 or 2) and Environmental Science; score of 5, 6 or 7 on any two IB HL exams in Biology, Chemistry or Physics

e. Language other than English

f. Visual and performing arts

g. College-preparatory elective
(chosen from the subjects listed above or another course approved by the university)

AP or IB Examination

Score of 3, 4 or 5 on any one AP Exam in Computer Science, Microeconomics, Macroeconomics, Human Geography, Psychology, U.S. Government or Comparative Government; score of 5, 6 or 7 on any one IB HL exam in Economics, Philosophy, Psychology, Social and Cultural Anthropology, or Computer Science”

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22 minutes ago, Mom0012 said:

So, the categories I have on my dd’s Transcript are:

World Languages

Math

English

Social Studies

Science

Business

Fine Arts 

PE

In social studies, I have all history and government classes.  Is that where people would put psych?  I was thinking of all the experiments that are done for psych, as well as the anatomy of the brain, as well as all the statistical math (my dd told me she had been introduced to much of the math in her statistics class earlier when she took psych).  When I was thinking of classifying it on the transcript, science seemed the natural location.  I don’t want to look ignorant on her transcript, but maybe I am, lol?  In the end, my dd has enough credits in every category so I can move it anywhere.

And now this has got me wondering about my dd’s Computer science class.  I have it classified as a business course, but now I am remembering someone suggest my dd take that her senior year as a math course.

Sorry for the derail, op.

No worries, I'm learning from your questions! I'm glad you asked.

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13 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

 

My kids want commuter universities at the moment so I followed UC admission categories for their transcript (quoted is minimum requirement to be completed by end of 10th grade)


“The 15 courses are:

a. History

b. English

c. Mathematics

d. Laboratory science

Two years of college-preparatory laboratory science, including or integrating topics that provide fundamental knowledge in two of these three subjects: biology, chemistry, or physics. One year of approved interdisciplinary or earth and space sciences coursework can meet one year of the requirement. Computer Science, Engineering, Applied Science courses can be used in area D as an additional laboratory science (i.e., third year and beyond).

AP or IB Examination

Score of 3, 4 or 5 on any two AP Exams in Biology, Chemistry, Physics (B, C, 1 or 2) and Environmental Science; score of 5, 6 or 7 on any two IB HL exams in Biology, Chemistry or Physics

e. Language other than English

f. Visual and performing arts

g. College-preparatory elective
(chosen from the subjects listed above or another course approved by the university)

AP or IB Examination

Score of 3, 4 or 5 on any one AP Exam in Computer Science, Microeconomics, Macroeconomics, Human Geography, Psychology, U.S. Government or Comparative Government; score of 5, 6 or 7 on any one IB HL exam in Economics, Philosophy, Psychology, Social and Cultural Anthropology, or Computer Science”

So Computer Science is treated as a lab science or an elective and psych as an elective.  I may change my “business” category to electives and move psych there.  I think I will treat the CS class as an elective as well, but I’ll have to think about that.  Thank you.

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21 minutes ago, ElizabethB said:

My daughter is taking 2 classes at the local high school, they classify psychology as social studies.  They do a lot of experiments and have studied the anatomy of the brain, still social studies.  She is really enjoying it, though, I plan to modify her next year's advanced biology and add in some neuroscience and subtract a chapter that doesn't interest her. This is the book I got, it is quite good, it is up to date in the dyslexia/how the brain processes language area, an area of neuroscience I keep up to date with, so I assume the rest of the book is good, too:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1316507904/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s03?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Looks like a great book.

Edited by Mom0012
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My son is the same way - wants nothing to do with dissections.  So I am designing a course revolving around botany (nice and clean, LOL!).  We will do the basics of general biology in order to have a background for genuine college-prep botany (biochemistry, cells, abbreviated cellular respiration, photosynthesis, genetics), and then will will spend the second semester knee-deep in botany (plant structure, plant reproduction, some horticulture, medicinal and plants, etc).   

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