We got our results and diagnosis - would love curriculum recs

[Runningmom80]

*Please don't quote, I will probably delete specifics*

DD 8 was officially diagnosed as dysgraphic, unofficially as "gifted dyslexic"

 She's listing dysgraphia and then issues with phonological processing, spelling & written expression. <snipped>

We have some names for tutors, the tester said she won't qualify for an IEP so we are pretty sure we will be homeschooling next year.  I'm going to proceed as if she's dyslexic, however "mild" because from what I've read it can't hurt. 

On her WJ achievement, her math problem solving was high but her calculations were below grade level. The tester said it's because she can't read her writing. 

Any ideas for curriculum that would be good for her? 

We've done AAS and I don't know how much its helped. She seems to get the concept the week I teach it and can spell the words correctly, but then forgets it. The tester said she's relying on memory a lot and compensating. 

Singapore has always worked, maybe I should keep going with that? I asked specifically about dyscalculia and she said she didn't see that because DD could do the matrices very well. She is the type of kid who will read a 3 step word problem and tell us the correct answer but when we ask her to show her work, she rolls around on the floor like we asked her to write a PhD thesis. 

 

Thanks in advance for any help you can give! 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Runningmom80

[Storygirl]

I'll let others advise about curricula.

It's too bad she would not list dyslexia in the report. We had a similar situation with DD13 when she was tested at age 10. The neuropsych said that she had ADHD but was not putting it in her report, because of discrepancies in the data. I wished I had pushed on this more or asked him to reconsider, because the ADHD diagnosis would be helpful now at this age. With a different NP and a different child, we did question the NP when they didn't list something in the report, and they listened and agreed to add it.

DD13 is dyslexic. Her other learning disability designations by the school have changed over time. Three years ago, she also had SLD written expression in her IEP. Now, she has improved enough that that was dropped, but SLD math calculation was added. The schools definitely can have a cut off where they will say the SLD is not affecting the education any more, so even if we as parents know the LD is still there, the schools no longer recognize it. It can be frustrating.

About the math calculations. I can't say that your evaluator's interpretation is incorrect -- legibility could be a factor -- but I will suggest that there may be other explanations. Math calculations are a known issue for many with dyslexia, but typically it is because the brain does not calculate well, not that the eyes can't discern the numbers on the page.

When DD was evaluated by the school (also at age 10), the IEP brushed off her difficulty with calculation by saying that many kids still needed time to master their facts, and that soon she would be allowed to use a calculator, so she didn't need to have the math SLD. I wasn't pleased, but she still had math goals in her IEP, so I let it go. When her IEP was updated this year by a different school, the math SLD was added.

I'm just throwing out these examples from our experience to show that these things can fluctuate. If you have her evaluated again in the future, you may find that a different psych would give the dyslexia diagnosis. Some psychs draw things very specifically only from the data, while others are willing to consider wider factors.

If you ever do decide to enroll in school, I would suggest requesting evaluations for an IEP anyway. First, because scores can change over time. Secondly, because the school and the NP do not always agree about the benchmarks that indicate SLD. That year that DD was 10, what the school came up with for her SLD designation did not exactly match what the neuropsych had in his findings.

 

[Runningmom80]

Thank you for sharing Storygirl. I'm wondering if I can have another psych look at her test scores and give an opinion. We won't be paying for more testing anytime soon as this was already way more than we ever expected to pay for testing. 

 

I came across this article which is making me wonder if the diagnosis can be made with the high language scores opposed to the low spelling and phonological processing scores. http://dyslexiahelp.umich.edu/answers/ask-dr-pierson/iq-testing-and-dyslexia

 

I'm still going to send the report to school and have her evaluated, I will just not expect much in return. Hopefully I'm presently surprised. 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Runningmom80

[Storygirl]

I've only had psychs do the diagnostic testing for dyslexia, not an SLP. I don't know that there would be any difference, but they do have different training and might interpret test results differently. Was this a psych and SLP who work together?

I am guessing the gifted comment was that there was not a wide enough gap between IQ and achievement to diagnose a reading disability.

But, under the federal IDEA law, having a discrepancy between IQ and achievement is not required for deciding whether there is a reading disability.

https://www.wrightslaw.com/idea/art/ld.rti.discrep.htm

Can you ask your SLP what guidelines for diagnosis she is using that won't permit her to diagnose? Even though she told you verbally that she believes your daughter is dyslexic?

As I mentioned, our neuropsych told us verbally that DD had ADHD, but he was able to explain specifically why he was not going to diagnose it, and his explanation made sense. Perhaps your evaluator has good reasons, but the IQ discrepancy thing is questionable. Here is a quote from the US government (from that wrightslaw link, above): "The IQ-discrepancy criterion is potentially harmful to students as it results in delaying intervention until the student’s achievement is sufficiently low that the discrepancy is achieved."

Here is a description by the International Dyslexia Association about what testing might look like and the factors to consider. There is really not one test for dyslexia, so the way that people evaluate for it might differ. The CTOPP is a test that is standard, I think, to determine if there is a phonological disability.

https://dyslexiaida.org/testing-and-evaluation/

 

[Runningmom80]

On 4/17/2019 at 2:58 PM, Storygirl said:

I've only had psychs do the diagnostic testing for dyslexia, not an SLP. I don't know that there would be any difference, but they do have different training and might interpret test results differently. Was this a psych and SLP who work together?

I am guessing the gifted comment was that there was not a wide enough gap between IQ and achievement to diagnose a reading disability.

But, under the federal IDEA law, having a discrepancy between IQ and achievement is not required for deciding whether there is a reading disability.

https://www.wrightslaw.com/idea/art/ld.rti.discrep.htm

Can you ask your SLP what guidelines for diagnosis she is using that won't permit her to diagnose? Even though she told you verbally that she believes your daughter is dyslexic?

As I mentioned, our neuropsych told us verbally that DD had ADHD, but he was able to explain specifically why he was not going to diagnose it, and his explanation made sense. Perhaps your evaluator has good reasons, but the IQ discrepancy thing is questionable. Here is a quote from the US government (from that wrightslaw link, above): "The IQ-discrepancy criterion is potentially harmful to students as it results in delaying intervention until the student’s achievement is sufficiently low that the discrepancy is achieved."

Here is a description by the International Dyslexia Association about what testing might look like and the factors to consider. There is really not one test for dyslexia, so the way that people evaluate for it might differ. The CTOPP is a test that is standard, I think, to determine if there is a phonological disability.

https://dyslexiaida.org/testing-and-evaluation/

 

 

Yes, it was a psych who did the IQ & behavior test and the SLP did the language testing & academic stuff.

 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Runningmom80

[Runningmom80]

NM

Edited April 17, 2019 by Runningmom80

[Runningmom80]

Thank you for your help Storygirl!

Edited April 17, 2019 by Runningmom80

[prairiewindmomma]

Don’t minimize the impact of the SLD-writing. Dysgraphia is often categorized now as SLD-writing and she is listing both dysgraphia and difficulties with written input. Anyone familiar with reading reports is going to pick that up. I wouldn’t get hung up on the “not dyslexia” front. The phonological issues are mentioned but it sounds like she has a slightly different presentation. 

We are dealing with dysgraphia and written output issues. While we see some bump in performance when he narrates instead of writing, the written output thing has had a much bigger impact now at 13 than I thought it would at 8. 

AFA what has helped: IEW A was helpful in the early years. We didn’t see much of a bump in ability from Killgallon. WWE was a nightmare.  We have him in SPED LA in public school this year. For his specialized homework, they are using Spectrum writing and it’s been the right amount of writing output for where he’s at. I have been surprised it has been such a good fit.

[Runningmom80]

29 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Don’t minimize the impact of the SLD-writing. Dysgraphia is often categorized now as SLD-writing and she is listing both dysgraphia and difficulties with written input. Anyone familiar with reading reports is going to pick that up. I wouldn’t get hung up on the “not dyslexia” front. The phonological issues are mentioned but it sounds like she has a slightly different presentation. 

We are dealing with dysgraphia and written output issues. While we see some bump in performance when he narrates instead of writing, the written output thing has had a much bigger impact now at 13 than I thought it would at 8. 

AFA what has helped: IEW A was helpful in the early years. We didn’t see much of a bump in ability from Killgallon. WWE was a nightmare.  We have him in SPED LA in public school this year. For his specialized homework, they are using Spectrum writing and it’s been the right amount of writing output for where he’s at. I have been surprised it has been such a good fit.

 

Thank you!

[Kanin]

2 hours ago, Runningmom80 said:

She said that her CTOPP scores aren't low enough by themself to diagnose ( but they were low). From what I understand, if her IQ was in gifted range, there would be a discrepancy and she could diagnose that way. The frustrating part is she said that her "difficulties" lowered her IQ score. So we are going in circles

Well, that's annoying and a bit strange. It's possible that the school would say she has a "specific learning disability" by merit of her other scores being quite high, and these being a bit low. Would you mind sharing the CTOPP scores? I've been pondering a lot of kids' CTOPP results lately. Our psych diagnosed a student as dyslexic with only one sub-test on the CTOPP being low, and the rest average to above average. I guess it really depends on who you ask! You might be pleasantly surprised by the school's response - let's hope so! I don't see why the psych automatically said the school wouldn't give her an IEP. Do they do a good job with intervention?

[Kanin]

I should think she'd get an IEP with a diagnosis of dysgraphia.

[Runningmom80]

1 hour ago, Mainer said:

I should think she'd get an IEP with a diagnosis of dysgraphia.

 

The SLP doesn't think her scores are low enough to qualify her. Plus, she is getting an A in math and a B in Language arts. 

[Runningmom80]

1 hour ago, Mainer said:

Well, that's annoying and a bit strange. It's possible that the school would say she has a "specific learning disability" by merit of her other scores being quite high, and these being a bit low. Would you mind sharing the CTOPP scores? I've been pondering a lot of kids' CTOPP results lately. Our psych diagnosed a student as dyslexic with only one sub-test on the CTOPP being low, and the rest average to above average. I guess it really depends on who you ask! You might be pleasantly surprised by the school's response - let's hope so! I don't see why the psych automatically said the school wouldn't give her an IEP. Do they do a good job with intervention?

 

her CTOPP (I will delete so please do not quote. 🙂

scaled score/percentile

Elision 10/50%

Blending words 8/25%

Phoneme Isolation 9/37%

Memory for digits 11/63%

Nonword Repetition 14/91%

Rapid Digit Naming 12/75%

Rapid Letter Naming 8/25%

Rapid Color Naming 12/75%

Rapid object naming 10/50%

Phonological Awareness 94/35%

Phonological memory 116/86%

Rapid symbol naming 101/53%

rapid non-symbol naming 106/65%

 

[Lecka]

So you have worked with her on reading?

I can see why the tester is saying what she is saying.  It can still be a dyslexia kind of profile without it being something where she needs school services.  

But I hope it will be different for dysgraphia for her!  

[Runningmom80]

7 minutes ago, Lecka said:

So you have worked with her on reading?

I can see why the tester is saying what she is saying.  It can still be a dyslexia kind of profile without it being something where she needs school services.  

But I hope it will be different for dysgraphia for her!  

 

Not explicitly, she learned to read at Montessori school, and it was a very small class. She was there for preschool and K. We did AAS 1-3, and I read a lot to her but that’s it. 

[Lecka]

I think for spelling, you have options.  

One option is to review more.  

One option is to slow down and practice more.  

One option is to keep going but be patient with mistakes.

There is not remembering and there is not remembering.... is it that it’s like she has never seen it before?  Even after a tiny review or reminder?  Or is it that she isn’t transferring to other writing and you would like that to be happening?  Do you see mistakes like she is trying to sound out, or like you don’t even see how she could have thought she should have wirtten things down?

Does she sound out as she spells?  Is she at an age where that would be appropriate?  Do you ever have her segment orally before spelling?  Can she do that?  

When the tester said she relies on visual memory (did I read this write?) — does this mean to focus more on the sounds and segmenting words?  Or does it mean she is working more advanced than maybe she needs to be as far as spelling?

Just some thoughts.  

For the math — have you tried scribing?  Does she like that at all?  Does she seem able to narrate the steps to you?  Or show the steps with manipulatives?  

There are a lot of options for math with handwriting difficulties, a lot is going to depend on what works for her and what she likes.  

[Lecka]

Still she has had explicit instruction in blending and segmenting with AAS 1-3.  And probably in the Montessori school too.  I think that counts.  Unless you know she picked it up really quickly and easily.

If that’s the case maybe the dyslexia comments are based on other things and not based on her CTOPP scores.  

And then honestly I am not as familiar with the rapid naming parts.  Maybe it is that.  

[Lecka]

Did the tester say what she was seeing for relying on verbal strategies for spelling?  I would be curious about that.  It might give an idea for something to work on. 

[Runningmom80]

4 minutes ago, Lecka said:

Did the tester say what she was seeing for relying on verbal strategies for spelling?  I would be curious about that.  It might give an idea for something to work on. 

 

She didn’t specify visual memory, just memory in general. Her working memory on the WISC was her highest score, which I found sort of surprising. 

[Runningmom80]

12 minutes ago, Lecka said:

I think for spelling, you have options.  

One option is to review more.  

One option is to slow down and practice more.  

One option is to keep going but be patient with mistakes.

There is not remembering and there is not remembering.... is it that it’s like she has never seen it before?  Even after a tiny review or reminder?  Or is it that she isn’t transferring to other writing and you would like that to be happening?  Do you see mistakes like she is trying to sound out, or like you don’t even see how she could have thought she should have wirtten things down?

Does she sound out as she spells?  Is she at an age where that would be appropriate?  Do you ever have her segment orally before spelling?  Can she do that?  

When the tester said she relies on visual memory (did I read this write?) — does this mean to focus more on the sounds and segmenting words?  Or does it mean she is working more advanced than maybe she needs to be as far as spelling?

Just some thoughts.  

For the math — have you tried scribing?  Does she like that at all?  Does she seem able to narrate the steps to you?  Or show the steps with manipulatives?  

There are a lot of options for math with handwriting difficulties, a lot is going to depend on what works for her and what she likes.  

 

She spells phonetically, but in crazy ways. She will write “onle” (only) “parcht” (parched) “Thayre” (there) even though she reads well. She does sound out as she spells, it’s just the way she writes the sounds is often wrong. 

For math, honestly we haven’t noticed that her handwriting slips her up, aside from the fact that she just doesn’t like to do it. The tester showed us an example and it was definitely a mess, so I don’t know what the deal was with that.

She does misspell even when copying from the same paper or from the board.

 

[Storygirl]

1 hour ago, Lecka said:

 

I can see why the tester is saying what she is saying.  It can still be a dyslexia kind of profile without it being something where she needs school services.  

 

I agree with this.

And yet, these were not school evaluations, but private ones. Should the private psych be diagnosing based upon what she thinks the school would do, or based on the testing she has done herself? She might offer her opinion on whether the school will write an IEP or not, but should she refuse to diagnose based on that?

These are questions for the OP to consider; I'm not expecting you to answer, Lecka.

 

[Runningmom80]

4 minutes ago, Storygirl said:

I agree with this.

And yet, these were not school evaluations, but private ones. Should the private psych be diagnosing based upon what she thinks the school would do, or based on the testing she has done herself? She might offer her opinion on whether the school will write an IEP or not, but should she refuse to diagnose based on that?

These are questions for the OP to consider; I'm not expecting you to answer, Lecka.

 

 

This is our question too. I asked for more clarification, just so I can understand, as much as possible, what is going on. 

[PeterPan]

12 hours ago, Runningmom80 said:

the tester said she won't qualify for an IEP

The donkey's butt, overpriced neuropsych that we first used with my ds said the same thing about him. Definitely go through the process and fight and see what happens before you assume that. She sure sounds like it's having an effect on her ability to access her education.

12 hours ago, Runningmom80 said:

her math problem solving was high but her calculations were below grade level. The tester said it's because she can't read her writing. 

Any ideas for curriculum that would be good for her? 

Well do you want to scribe while she gets OT?

12 hours ago, Runningmom80 said:

We've done AAS and I don't know how much its helped.

I'm always astonished when I see people recommending AAS for dyslexia, that's for sure. Talk about Flintstone tools compared to Wilson, Barton, or anything else you could be doing. You could even look at SPELL-Links. What the tutor? Do you WANT to do the intervention yourself? I mean hire a tutor if you want or it's more practical, absolutely. But if it's just that your AAS experience left you intimidated, step up to some better tools and you can probably get this done. But really, all that matters is that it GETS done, not who does it. Hire if you want. And if you want better materials that actually would let you do it, that's an option too.

12 hours ago, Runningmom80 said:

Singapore has always worked, maybe I should keep going with that? I asked specifically about dyscalculia and she said she didn't see that because DD could do the matrices very well. She is the type of kid who will read a 3 step word problem and tell us the correct answer but when we ask her to show her work, she rolls around on the floor like we asked her to write a PhD thesis. 

I personally would NOT change math that is working. You'd be changing merely because of the writing, not because of poor instructional fit, poor results, whatever. No, she probably doesn't have dyscalculia. I only say that because in my non-scientific opinion it's obvious to parents because it elicits profanity. 

Well congrats on good evals!! I'm with you on the IQ thing too. You'll get the chance to re-eval in a few years and see what happens. Did this psych do narrative language testing? And did anything generate vocabulary scores? If vocabulary was low, that can be due to lack of language exposure with less reading. It's something to be highly attentive to. I was told it will pull down IQ scores in SLD kids. If narrative language testing was not done, I'd dig in your own soul and ponder whether it's necessary.

Oh, the writing for the math gig is the EF, the working memory, the strain of using her language. We just had a thread on this. My dd did it and now my ds does. Scribing helps, but it's kinda hard to scribe what they aren't saying, lol. With my dd I used whiteboards and fought the fight. We had all kinds of tricks. I would be her external RAM and hold her thoughts mid-process. I would put words on index cards for her to point to. Another idea is to put her into something highly structured like MUS. Yes, let the world cringe. She's got a great foundation and you're going to change soon to something after you finish 1-6 anyway, right? So maybe work on working memory and her ability to hold her thoughts while processing and in the meantime get through SM6 and figure out your next step.

Having my ds give oral narrations forces him to hold his thoughts. It would be comparable to the math. I'm saying find something else besides math to target that skill, so it's not killing math. Like play Ticket to Ride every day. Or work on working memory. How were those scores?

[PeterPan]

3 hours ago, Runningmom80 said:

 

She spells phonetically, but in crazy ways. She will write “onle” (only) “parcht” (parched) “Thayre” (there) even though she reads well. She does sound out as she spells, it’s just the way she writes the sounds is often wrong. 

For math, honestly we haven’t noticed that her handwriting slips her up, aside from the fact that she just doesn’t like to do it. The tester showed us an example and it was definitely a mess, so I don’t know what the deal was with that.

She does misspell even when copying from the same paper or from the board.

 

Your report should have recommended books, software, etc. She needs on software PRONTO. Don Johnson has all the best stuff. Ginger? Go crazy with tech. This child will blossom with it, and it will give her visual input of correct spelling that actually really helps some kids. Also getting proper intervention (Barton, Wilson, SPELL-Links, something tier 3) may make a difference.

On the handwriting, you can do an OT eval. Have you checked for retained reflexes? Given that she is having trouble copying *and* trouble with legibility, I would take her to a VT doc and get her screened just to make sure you don't have vision issues. When it rains it pours and we like spending all your money.

But seriously, narrative language testing, OT, vision. I would definitely finish this out. 

[PeterPan]

3 hours ago, Runningmom80 said:

 

She didn’t specify visual memory, just memory in general. Her working memory on the WISC was her highest score, which I found sort of surprising. 

Oh that's really interesting. So with math and EF (executive function), you're looking not only working memory but the ability to break things into parts. So she may have this big leap but struggle to break it into steps. Some people will fight that fight with geometry, having the kid do proofs. I think dig in there and use your judgement. The other thing is that if she's only not showing her work in the Singapore math, I wouldn't give a rip. Singapore is obtuse and unnecessary. They just visualize it and move on. I don't know, some people are so enamored of it and I'm not. She was showing her work for the psych for achievement testing? So she can. It could be the singapore. Like maybe see if she's able to slow down and communicate her steps where it matters more or is more interesting. We used the math competition stuff (name is slipping my mind) that AOPS I think sells. See if it changes with a different text.

[PeterPan]

6 hours ago, Mainer said:

Our psych diagnosed a student as dyslexic with only one sub-test on the CTOPP being low, and the rest average to above average. I guess it really depends on who you ask! You might be pleasantly surprised by the school's response - let's hope so! I don't see why the psych automatically said the school wouldn't give her an IEP. Do they do a good job with intervention?

When ds was diagnosed, I think he was like the student you're describing. 

And yes, I agree that the psych could be totally wet here telling her not to bother. 

[PeterPan]

4 hours ago, Runningmom80 said:

Rapid Letter Naming 8/25%

 

4 hours ago, Runningmom80 said:

Elision 10/50%

Blending words 8/25%

Phoneme Isolation 9/37%

Memory for digits 11/63%

So her working memory is not as strong as you'd *like* it to be given that it is compensating for other weaknesses. Her basic phonological processes suck and that RAN/RAS needs some work. The one that you would THINK is most important is dramatically lower. RAN/RAS is strongly correlated with strong readers. You'll read stupidity saying it can't be improved, which is hogwash. Definitely put it on your hit list. Make something for free, do it with her, revel in the progress.

[PeterPan]

12 hours ago, Runningmom80 said:

Any ideas for curriculum that would be good for her? 

Find something she does WELL, something she enjoys, and INVEST in it. Invest time and money. You'll screw with her head if her life gets imbalanced with therapies and interventions. You can do all you want, do 3-4 hours a day even, sure, absolutely. But then go find something that's a strength for her and spend equal time on that. You've been warned. 

So like if you want to do 3 hours a day of Barton (I've done that, sure), then she gets 3 hours a day with a dSLR and photoshop. Or 3 hours of cooking and a new sewing machine. I kid you not. Like I would go that overboard and feed whatever really makes her life good. 

Have you read Dyslexic Advantage yet? That will help you possibly find some patterns of strength. The psych may have also had suggestions on areas of strength to attend to. Really listen to her on this.

[PeterPan]

Do you have access to a dyslexia school? She would be such a super fab candidate. It would be worth the drive. They could teach her how to use tech. If one is too far but you can tour, you should. Like really unlid in your mind what this could look like. Around here the dyslexia school is ASTONISHING. Very positive, uplifting. 

[Runningmom80]

6 hours ago, PeterPan said:

The donkey's butt, overpriced neuropsych that we first used with my ds said the same thing about him. Definitely go through the process and fight and see what happens before you assume that. She sure sounds like it's having an effect on her ability to access her education.

Well do you want to scribe while she gets OT?

I'm always astonished when I see people recommending AAS for dyslexia, that's for sure. Talk about Flintstone tools compared to Wilson, Barton, or anything else you could be doing. You could even look at SPELL-Links. What the tutor? Do you WANT to do the intervention yourself? I mean hire a tutor if you want or it's more practical, absolutely. But if it's just that your AAS experience left you intimidated, step up to some better tools and you can probably get this done. But really, all that matters is that it GETS done, not who does it. Hire if you want. And if you want better materials that actually would let you do it, that's an option too.

I personally would NOT change math that is working. You'd be changing merely because of the writing, not because of poor instructional fit, poor results, whatever. No, she probably doesn't have dyscalculia. I only say that because in my non-scientific opinion it's obvious to parents because it elicits profanity. 

Well congrats on good evals!! I'm with you on the IQ thing too. You'll get the chance to re-eval in a few years and see what happens. Did this psych do narrative language testing? And did anything generate vocabulary scores? If vocabulary was low, that can be due to lack of language exposure with less reading. It's something to be highly attentive to. I was told it will pull down IQ scores in SLD kids. If narrative language testing was not done, I'd dig in your own soul and ponder whether it's necessary.

Oh, the writing for the math gig is the EF, the working memory, the strain of using her language. We just had a thread on this. My dd did it and now my ds does. Scribing helps, but it's kinda hard to scribe what they aren't saying, lol. With my dd I used whiteboards and fought the fight. We had all kinds of tricks. I would be her external RAM and hold her thoughts mid-process. I would put words on index cards for her to point to. Another idea is to put her into something highly structured like MUS. Yes, let the world cringe. She's got a great foundation and you're going to change soon to something after you finish 1-6 anyway, right? So maybe work on working memory and her ability to hold her thoughts while processing and in the meantime get through SM6 and figure out your next step.

Having my ds give oral narrations forces him to hold his thoughts. It would be comparable to the math. I'm saying find something else besides math to target that skill, so it's not killing math. Like play Ticket to Ride every day. Or work on working memory. How were those scores?

 

The AAS thing maybe did leave me feeling incompetent. I do see that it’s not on par with Wilson or Barton, and have read that it’s not the thing that works for most dyslexics/dysgraphics.

 

She didn’t do narrative language testing from what I can tell. She did CLEF, PPVT, EVT CTOPP and some other ones of specific skills (test of written spelling for example.) 

On the CLEF, the PPVT she was very superior, the EVT, she was superior. The CTOPP is where she started to show the issue. The phonological piece being the below average piece. I’ll have to read more about narrative language to see if that’s something we need to get.  She did lots of other tests most were average, the test of written spelling was 24%!

 

Her working memory on WISC was 95% which is really weird to me, but she is usually quick with things that don’t require writing.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Runningmom80

[Runningmom80]

6 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Your report should have recommended books, software, etc. She needs on software PRONTO. Don Johnson has all the best stuff. Ginger? Go crazy with tech. This child will blossom with it, and it will give her visual input of correct spelling that actually really helps some kids. Also getting proper intervention (Barton, Wilson, SPELL-Links, something tier 3) may make a difference.

On the handwriting, you can do an OT eval. Have you checked for retained reflexes? Given that she is having trouble copying *and* trouble with legibility, I would take her to a VT doc and get her screened just to make sure you don't have vision issues. When it rains it pours and we like spending all your money.

But seriously, narrative language testing, OT, vision. I would definitely finish this out. 

 

She did a round of vision therapy at age 7! She had one retained reflex that he wasnt concerned about. I’ve been wanting to take her back for a check up, but I was waiting until after this testing situation was complete so I had a better idea of her language skills before we shell out more money on VT. 

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Runningmom80

[Runningmom80]

On 4/18/2019 at 12:24 AM, PeterPan said:

When ds was diagnosed, I think he was like the student you're describing. 

And yes, I agree that the psych could be totally wet here telling her not to bother. 

 

We are definitely still going to go through the motions. I do trust the SLP’s opinion on this because she’s worked with parents at my kids’ school. I’ve also talked to other moms and it seems to be the consensus. School was an experiment that we did this semester, optimistically hoping it would work out. 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Runningmom80

[Runningmom80]

5 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Find something she does WELL, something she enjoys, and INVEST in it. Invest time and money. You'll screw with her head if her life gets imbalanced with therapies and interventions. You can do all you want, do 3-4 hours a day even, sure, absolutely. But then go find something that's a strength for her and spend equal time on that. You've been warned. 

So like if you want to do 3 hours a day of Barton (I've done that, sure), then she gets 3 hours a day with a dSLR and photoshop. Or 3 hours of cooking and a new sewing machine. I kid you not. Like I would go that overboard and feed whatever really makes her life good. 

Have you read Dyslexic Advantage yet? That will help you possibly find some patterns of strength. The psych may have also had suggestions on areas of strength to attend to. Really listen to her on this.

 

I love this advice! What the SLP told us when we were walking out is that “we have to remember that her brain is working really hard to compensate.” Which explains why school exhausts her.

She deserves to also feel good about herself and do stuff she loves. DD has already made comments about not learning as fast as her brothers and that really sent off warning bells for us. She’s very funny and witty, but also stubborn and tenacious so in the long run I’m worried about her least! 

I have read The Dyslexic Advantage and loved it. But now this “dyslexia but not dyslexia” is messing with my head. To us she is text book stealth dyslexic, and maybe she is but scores just shook out differently. 

 

[Runningmom80]

6 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Do you have access to a dyslexia school? She would be such a super fab candidate. It would be worth the drive. They could teach her how to use tech. If one is too far but you can tour, you should. Like really unlid in your mind what this could look like. Around here the dyslexia school is ASTONISHING. Very positive, uplifting. 

 

We have one that’s not specifically for dyslexia but deals with lots of learning differences. It’s about 30k a year though and even if it weren’t a drive, it’s so far out of our budget.

[Kanin]

20 minutes ago, Runningmom80 said:

I have read The Dyslexic Advantage and loved it. But now this “dyslexia but not dyslexia” is messing with my head. To us she is text book stealth dyslexic, and maybe she is but scores just shook out differently. 

Well, there's mildly dyslexic all the way to severely dyslexic. In some ways, mildly dyslexic is the most confusing! But with a lot of really well-done remediation, she has a good chance of reading well and, who knows, even enjoying reading! 🙂 She may always read a little more slowly than most people, or have more spelling errors, but if she's the kind of person who can advocate for herself (eventually), she can say, hey, I'm dyslexic so please bear with spelling errors in my emails! and stuff like that.

 

[Runningmom80]

25 minutes ago, Mainer said:

Well, there's mildly dyslexic all the way to severely dyslexic. In some ways, mildly dyslexic is the most confusing! But with a lot of really well-done remediation, she has a good chance of reading well and, who knows, even enjoying reading! 🙂 She may always read a little more slowly than most people, or have more spelling errors, but if she's the kind of person who can advocate for herself (eventually), she can say, hey, I'm dyslexic so please bear with spelling errors in my emails! and stuff like that.

 

 

Thank you. I think the mildness of it is what I’m struggling with. I wonder if it’s possible that it’s less mild than what the numbers pulled out. I always thought if 2e “canceling each other out” when it comes to academics. I don’t think I understood it can also happen in the actual testing.

 Or perhaps I’m neurotic and making a big deal out of something small.  ( or both? Lol) 

She definitely advocates for herself, almost too much sometimes. 😂 

[Storygirl]

2 hours ago, Runningmom80 said:

 

We have one that’s not specifically for dyslexia but deals with lots of learning differences. It’s about 30k a year though and even if it weren’t a drive, it’s so far out of our budget.

Check with them. It's worth just calling to ask about.  The school that DD13 attends has financial aid. And our state offers a disability scholarship to students who qualify, and for us, that knocks off about a third of the price. The school will be able to tell you how people manage the tuition.

I'm not saying that it won't be expensive, but that more help might be available than you think. The dyslexia school here has been completely fabulous for DD13. Your daughter likely has the perfect profile for admittance to your local school; most of them are for bright students who struggle in a traditional classroom. Our school really knows how to teach and reach these kind of kids.

And then most of them are remediated enough and learn enough about how to use their tools that they are able to transition back into the public school. DD13 will be going to public school next year, after three years at the dyslexia school. I think they said students spend an average of 2-4 years at the school, though some do stay through graduation.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Storygirl

[Runningmom80]

12 minutes ago, Storygirl said:

Check with them. It's worth just calling to ask about.  The school that DD13 attends has financial aid. And our state offers a disability scholarship to students who qualify, and for us, that knocks off about a third of the price. The school will be able to tell you how people manage the tuition.

I'm not saying that it won't be expensive, but that more help might be available than you think. The dyslexia school here has been completely fabulous for DD13. Your daughter likely has the perfect profile for admittance to your local school; most of them are for bright students who struggle in a traditional classroom. Our school really knows how to teach and reach these kind of kids.

And then most of them are remediated enough and learn enough about how to use their tools that they are able to transition back into the public school. DD13 will be going to public school next year, after three years at the dyslexia school. I think they said students spend an average of 2-4 years at the school, though some do stay through graduation.

 I’ve looked into it. DD’s best friend goes there. Her BFF has an IEP so qualifies for scholarship and they are still paying over 15k a year. We just can’t do it. 

[PeterPan]

3 hours ago, Runningmom80 said:

CLEF

The CELF is a screener with poor sensitivity and can miss higher functioning kids. They'd have to use a different cutoff. I'm not saying she has language issues, but it's definitely only a screener and did NOT hit narrative language. Narrative language issues are common enough in dyslexia (and language issues just in general, since it's considered a language disorder by SLPs) that it would make sense to pursue that testing. You'd do it with an SLP, and typically it will be an SLP who specializes in literacy who owns the tests. If your insurance will cover it, that SLP could do your intervention too, btw. More expensive than a reading tutor, but they're going to hit more areas than just decoding. (Yes, that's a hornet's nest topic, lol.) 

If you want a laugh, my ds "passes" the CELF (has multiple times actually) and within two months then fails the TNL and the SPELT and got diagnosed with a language delay. So it's always good to move beyond that fast food screener and do more detailed testing if there's any hint of language issues. The EF issues that are making it hard for her to get out the steps of her math can also affect her narrative language. The dysgraphia too is this convergence of visual motor and the language. SLP testing could be covered by your insurance, and no matter what we're not talking as $$ as the psych testing was. Ironically, if you get the right SLP, you'll actually learn way more that is actionable with the SLP than you did the psych. 

3 hours ago, Runningmom80 said:

Her working memory on WISC was 95% which is really weird to me, but she is usually quick with things that don’t require writing.

I'm not sure what you're saying there. The digit spans for the CTOPP do not require writing. So she had discrepancy on one test and not the other. My guess is she's fatiguing, which is also significant. Did your psych generate n-back scores? There is more detailed working memory testing they can do where they dig in to what happens with load. So a kid could have the digits going forward but struggle as the load increases. Also there could have been a difference in time of day, her fatigue level, a different room, background noise, a different tester, anything. Did the psych administer all the testing herself or use an assistant?

3 hours ago, Runningmom80 said:

 

She did a round of vision therapy at age 7! She had one retained reflex that he wasnt concerned about. I’ve been wanting to take her back for a check up, but I was waiting until after this testing situation was complete so I had a better idea of her language skills before we shell out more money on VT. 

 

Well there's an idiot for you. (The VT doc, not you.) What kind of IDIOT sees retained reflexes and is like oh don't worry about that?!?!?!?! Wow. That's a new one. I declare. I'm pretty astonished here. 

Ok, so what I would do is test the reflexes thoroughly yourself, since that guy didn't have his head on straight. Integrate them, do OT (because she might benefit from some given the dysgraphia and retained reflexes), and then after 6 months of that get the vision retested. Is she overtly complaining of headaches when reading, convergence issues, etc.? Oh it's the copying. Yeah, my ds has trouble copying and he checks PERFECTLY for vision therapy. But we have his reflexes integrated and know what's left is the visual motor integration. Now our VT place ran a visual motor integration test that no OT has bothered to run, and that gave me helpful data! And then if you're like who is doing visual motor integration (which *seems* to be the underlying issue with my ds' difficulty writing), it's the VT people. Which reminds me there was an OT I called at a VT practice and they never got back with me. Oops.

Sorry, that sounds like it's going in circles. Some people get their primitive reflexes integrated and the vision reflexes that should do their gig next fall into place. Happened for my ds. That's why it's so spitting stupid that the guy blew off reflexes not being retained. Also means you have no clue if he was thorough. But once you say a dc has difficulty writing, that's super complex. Can be vision (focusing near, focusing far), but it can also be that motor planning and visual motor integration. And in her case, it's going to be challenging because of the dyslexia. So I would think integrate the reflexes, gather fresh data, make a decision. Fortunately reflexes aren't an $$ thing, lol.

3 hours ago, Runningmom80 said:

 

We have one that’s not specifically for dyslexia but deals with lots of learning differences. It’s about 30k a year though and even if it weren’t a drive, it’s so far out of our budget.

Still visit! And if you have a school that is specifically for dyslexia that's even farther, just visit. I've visited a bunch of these $30-40k a year schools in our area, and I always learn a ton. Seriously, highly recommend. You'll go into a class where she'd be placed and see how it would look for her. There's no reason why you can't do those things at home!! It just gives you a mental picture of things you could do you might not have thought of. Think of it as free teacher in-service, lol. Our dyslexia school uses flex seating, Zones of Regulation, lots of tech, Lexia, a rock climbing wall, alternate places to work outside the classroom, and has a focus on creativity (art classes for everyone, drama, robotics, etc.) that goes beyond what you'd expect. The net effect is so high in support and so POSITIVE. It's like this totally other world where suddenly everything WORKS and the disability doesn't matter. A lot surprised me. So if you tour, you might find ideas to bring home you wouldn't have thought of. They'll be happy to answer questions and tell you trade secrets. 

2 hours ago, Runningmom80 said:

I wonder if it’s possible that it’s less mild than what the numbers pulled out.

You have two issues there. One is the genetic basis of the dyslexia. I've seen (and have linked in the past) studies looking at 12 genes implicated in dyslexia. So you could literally think of it as simply as how many genes got ticked. My ds has *1* gene that is homozygous for a defect, and he's diagnosed. My dd has that same gene heterozygous for the defect, and she was just a little crunchy, not diagnosable. But then you look at kids dealing with SEVERE dyslexia, and my guess is they're ticking 3, 4, maybe more of these genes. And each of the genes affects a different area of presentation, so it's not homogenous in effect. Like one gene was a certain aspect of phonological processing and another was a different aspect or affected spelling. It's literally that nuanced. 

So it's RIGHT to call her dyslexic because she's clearly presenting as having difficulties and likely has the genes. If it bugs you, run the testing on 23andme when it's on sale and compare her list to the SNPs in the studies. 

Right now you're in the world of the DSM and psychs, and they look at external symptoms and quibble. With some distance, you'll see how messy that really is. You can have the same kid diagnosed 3-4 different ways by 3-4 different psychs!! And I should know, because I've been through that with my ds, lol. It's that variable, that superficial. 

What really matters is what intervention she needs. Use the label to make the interventions happen. The psych is using the label partly to say the interventions at that level MUST HAPPEN. It's not right to say that kids don't get intervention at the proper tier just because they're gifted and can mask. My ds went through Barton so fast it was embarrassing!! But reality was HE NEEDED BARTON. Don't worry about the whole pecking order, why doesn't my kid look like so and so's kid. Just ask WHAT DOES MY KID NEED TO GET ON TRACK AND BEGIN TO THRIVE? That's it. It's only about what your kids need.

Oh, and the Eides? Well my ds who's diagnosed dyslexic and has the genetic defect doesn't fit their book very well and my dd who is heterozygous for the defect and not diagnosed dyslexic does. Use what fits and what inspires you to make changes that fit the kid and hang the label.

And no, I would not say stealth dyslexia around here. You don't know yet how things will pan out, but I personally think that would be very hurtful to my ds and dismissive of what he perceives as a disability (reading is HARD for him) to say well yours is only STEALTH dyslexia. The psych didn't say that, so don't say that. It's dyslexia, acknowledge it's a disability, let her say it's hard and don't cherrycoat it or say her numbers are so good it shouldn't be hard. That's not acknowledging the reality of what she's feeling. 

The other thing is that your AAS intervention assuredly bumped those scores. It's one of the things the psych is acknowledging in her diagnosis I think. It's not like you were doing the Fountas & Pinnell or Jan Richardson read the beginning and end and GUESS crap that is being taught in the ps. You actually taught her with materials that WOULD HAVE BEEN ENOUGH for some dyslexics. So her scores are slightly better, but the psych is like this is not passing the sniff test, it's dyslexia, call it dyslexia.

So don't hide in a corner or think you can't use the word. Call it what it is.

1 hour ago, Storygirl said:

DD13 will be going to public school next year, after three years at the dyslexia school

Ooo, congratulations!!! That's exciting that she's ready for that change!!

1 hour ago, Runningmom80 said:

 I’ve looked into it. DD’s best friend goes there. Her BFF has an IEP so qualifies for scholarship and they are still paying over 15k a year. We just can’t do it. 

Well your psych already gave you bad advice on saying your dd won't qualify for an IEP. I definitely see what you're saying about not being ready to pay $15k on top. My advice is tour, learn how they do things. I LOVE what I learn and what they've been willing to share with me by touring. These are people who are really into what they're doing, so when you go in with questions more than a typical parent, they engage and enjoy it. 

You might not take your dd if you think it would break her heart. But for *you* to tour it and see what they do and pick up ideas, sure absolutely. I did take my ds when we toured the dyslexia school, and he was so funny. He said he'd like to go there for high school. Like even he perceived, lovely as it was, that it wasn't the right fit for him right now. So you never know, lol. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by PeterPan

[Lecka]

I will answer.... this is just me maybe, but I do not think an 8 is a low score.  I just do not.  A diagnosis is a serious thing and I think it needs to have either an actual low score, or a serious, observable impact.  I think a diagnosis should be reserved for that.  Or really — maybe it’s more that it is fine with me.  

But I think there is also a huge intermediate area where it is very, very worthwhile to have extra help, extra practice, extra attention, alternate methods, etc.  I think this is a real and needed area.  But I don’t think a diagnosis is required in this area.  

So to me — I interpret comments to mean — yes she needs extra help, practice, attention, patience, understanding, alternate methods, etc, and *especially* when it is probably going to be more frustrating for her because her gap is very high and it is going to have a practical impact on her.  

I just don’t think this has to mean getting an IEP and a diagnosis.

But for context — I think I have been places where I think either RTI or classroom teachers do a really good job with this group, pay attention, do extra with them, use alternative methods, etc.  I really do think that.  

And sometimes that is not going to be enough. 

But frankly for someone who is doing well in their regular classroom, then where is this extra help going to come in, if it’s not provided by the regular teacher or RTI?  

This is not so easy.

One of my kids has had it anyway, and — he needed it but it just is not so easy, and I think there is a wide range where needs can be met without going all that way.  

If the school/classroom is really rigid then I think that changes all of this, but for the schools my kids have been at, overall they are flexible.  Here and there are some rigid teachers, or new teachers who don’t have as much awareness or knowledge. 

I think overall though a lot of teachers do know a lot about strategies and methods and go ahead and use them in their classes, or it can happen in RTI.  

Because the main thing is — it is really theoretical to say “oh we need to do this.”  But then where and when will it be done?  And I think there is always a choice where something is done but something else isn’t done.  

I don’t think it would be like that at a dyslexia school (because they can design for the whole group) and I don’t think it would be like that for homeschool because it is individualized.  

But I do think that.  

BUT — I also think that still leaves — what exactly does this child need?  What are her needs?  How can they be best met?  

I think those are still really pressing questions even when there is not a diagnosis.  I don’t think that not having a diagnosis means there are no needs and everything should be cookie-cutter and sink-or-swim and if she can’t figure it out then she must be having behavioral problems and choosing to be non-compliant. 

But I don’t think that the answer to saying “we need to figure this out” has to mean a diagnosis.

Really I just think there are other options for how to handle things, between “do nothing at all, and feel stupid for asking” and “a diagnosis.”  

 

[Storygirl]

I agree, Lecka. I do!

DS14 is in that gray zone, where his private evaluations showed the issues that caused his struggles, but his scores were not low enough to qualify him for an IEP. He did get a 504 after we pushed the private psych to diagnose the anxiety. And that gives him extra time, a quiet room, and teachers know to watch for a shut down. The 504 is enough for him, as it turns out, and he has been doing well.

But I still feel badly for the OP, because they have tried the school, and the school isn't doing enough, and now they have a private report that says Yes there are problems but No we won't diagnose it. And, therefore, No there won't be an IEP.

And so the family is stuck. The public school won't help. The specialty school is too expensive.

With homeschooling, she can provide what her daughter needs, and it sounds like that is the plan.

But homeschooling won't work for many families, and those people then feel stuck in a hard place.

It's just hard.

[Lecka]

I would hope she would qualify for an IEP wrt dysgraphia.  That has a lot going with it and maybe is impacting spelling, too.  

 

[Storygirl]

OP, I do think it will be worthwhile to talk about the private testing results with the public school. I know you said you plan to try.

Depending on the school, you may be able to do this without going through the whole IEP process initially. Just contact the head of the special ed department and ask if they will look at the reports. We sent DS15's IEP to several high schools and asked, "What would you do for him if he enrolled at your school?" and then met with them. And these were schools where we did not even live in the district yet (we were evaluating which school district to move into).

Now, he had an IEP already, so they knew he would have one at their school.

But still, I am just saying that the IEP process is long and convoluted and not fun. And if someone at your school is willing to sit and talk with you before launching the process, you may be able to get the information you need.

Maybe, maybe not, but it would be worth a try, I think.

[Runningmom80]

19 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

The CELF is a screener with poor sensitivity and can miss higher functioning kids. They'd have to use a different cutoff. I'm not saying she has language issues, but it's definitely only a screener and did NOT hit narrative language. Narrative language issues are common enough in dyslexia (and language issues just in general, since it's considered a language disorder by SLPs) that it would make sense to pursue that testing. You'd do it with an SLP, and typically it will be an SLP who specializes in literacy who owns the tests. If your insurance will cover it, that SLP could do your intervention too, btw. More expensive than a reading tutor, but they're going to hit more areas than just decoding. (Yes, that's a hornet's nest topic, lol.) 

If you want a laugh, my ds "passes" the CELF (has multiple times actually) and within two months then fails the TNL and the SPELT and got diagnosed with a language delay. So it's always good to move beyond that fast food screener and do more detailed testing if there's any hint of language issues. The EF issues that are making it hard for her to get out the steps of her math can also affect her narrative language. The dysgraphia too is this convergence of visual motor and the language. SLP testing could be covered by your insurance, and no matter what we're not talking as $$ as the psych testing was. Ironically, if you get the right SLP, you'll actually learn way more that is actionable with the SLP than you did the psych. 

I'm not sure what you're saying there. The digit spans for the CTOPP do not require writing. So she had discrepancy on one test and not the other. My guess is she's fatiguing, which is also significant. Did your psych generate n-back scores? There is more detailed working memory testing they can do where they dig in to what happens with load. So a kid could have the digits going forward but struggle as the load increases. Also there could have been a difference in time of day, her fatigue level, a different room, background noise, a different tester, anything. Did the psych administer all the testing herself or use an assistant?

I just thought it was weird that her working memory tested higher than her verbal score, and that her verbal score doesn't match the peabody or expressive language test at all, and I've read dyslexics often have lower working memory scores. (I think I read that....)

Well there's an idiot for you. (The VT doc, not you.) What kind of IDIOT sees retained reflexes and is like oh don't worry about that?!?!?!?! Wow. That's a new one. I declare. I'm pretty astonished here. 

Ok, so what I would do is test the reflexes thoroughly yourself, since that guy didn't have his head on straight. Integrate them, do OT (because she might benefit from some given the dysgraphia and retained reflexes), and then after 6 months of that get the vision retested. Is she overtly complaining of headaches when reading, convergence issues, etc.? Oh it's the copying. Yeah, my ds has trouble copying and he checks PERFECTLY for vision therapy. But we have his reflexes integrated and know what's left is the visual motor integration. Now our VT place ran a visual motor integration test that no OT has bothered to run, and that gave me helpful data! And then if you're like who is doing visual motor integration (which *seems* to be the underlying issue with my ds' difficulty writing), it's the VT people. Which reminds me there was an OT I called at a VT practice and they never got back with me. Oops.

Ok, her VMI was low, 93 / 32nd percentile. It sounds like what you are saying is that this is not reliant on the reflexes? (Just for my own understanding)

Sorry, that sounds like it's going in circles. Some people get their primitive reflexes integrated and the vision reflexes that should do their gig next fall into place. Happened for my ds. That's why it's so spitting stupid that the guy blew off reflexes not being retained. Also means you have no clue if he was thorough. But once you say a dc has difficulty writing, that's super complex. Can be vision (focusing near, focusing far), but it can also be that motor planning and visual motor integration. And in her case, it's going to be challenging because of the dyslexia. So I would think integrate the reflexes, gather fresh data, make a decision. Fortunately reflexes aren't an $$ thing, lol.

Still visit! And if you have a school that is specifically for dyslexia that's even farther, just visit. I've visited a bunch of these $30-40k a year schools in our area, and I always learn a ton. Seriously, highly recommend. You'll go into a class where she'd be placed and see how it would look for her. There's no reason why you can't do those things at home!! It just gives you a mental picture of things you could do you might not have thought of. Think of it as free teacher in-service, lol. Our dyslexia school uses flex seating, Zones of Regulation, lots of tech, Lexia, a rock climbing wall, alternate places to work outside the classroom, and has a focus on creativity (art classes for everyone, drama, robotics, etc.) that goes beyond what you'd expect. The net effect is so high in support and so POSITIVE. It's like this totally other world where suddenly everything WORKS and the disability doesn't matter. A lot surprised me. So if you tour, you might find ideas to bring home you wouldn't have thought of. They'll be happy to answer questions and tell you trade secrets. 

That's a good point, it doesn't hurt to look. 

You have two issues there. One is the genetic basis of the dyslexia. I've seen (and have linked in the past) studies looking at 12 genes implicated in dyslexia. So you could literally think of it as simply as how many genes got ticked. My ds has *1* gene that is homozygous for a defect, and he's diagnosed. My dd has that same gene heterozygous for the defect, and she was just a little crunchy, not diagnosable. But then you look at kids dealing with SEVERE dyslexia, and my guess is they're ticking 3, 4, maybe more of these genes. And each of the genes affects a different area of presentation, so it's not homogenous in effect. Like one gene was a certain aspect of phonological processing and another was a different aspect or affected spelling. It's literally that nuanced. 

So it's RIGHT to call her dyslexic because she's clearly presenting as having difficulties and likely has the genes. If it bugs you, run the testing on 23andme when it's on sale and compare her list to the SNPs in the studies. 

Right now you're in the world of the DSM and psychs, and they look at external symptoms and quibble. With some distance, you'll see how messy that really is. You can have the same kid diagnosed 3-4 different ways by 3-4 different psychs!! And I should know, because I've been through that with my ds, lol. It's that variable, that superficial. 

What really matters is what intervention she needs. Use the label to make the interventions happen. The psych is using the label partly to say the interventions at that level MUST HAPPEN. It's not right to say that kids don't get intervention at the proper tier just because they're gifted and can mask. My ds went through Barton so fast it was embarrassing!! But reality was HE NEEDED BARTON. Don't worry about the whole pecking order, why doesn't my kid look like so and so's kid. Just ask WHAT DOES MY KID NEED TO GET ON TRACK AND BEGIN TO THRIVE? That's it. It's only about what your kids need.

Yes, exactly. I'm a little like "well what am I asking for then?" and the SLP says tutoring for "spelling with written expression" I guess under the umbrella of her dysgraphia. She said she has a weakness in the orthography and needs OG tutoring. I think I've just lost track of everything because the dyslexia thing is such a gray area for her.

Oh, and the Eides? Well my ds who's diagnosed dyslexic and has the genetic defect doesn't fit their book very well and my dd who is heterozygous for the defect and not diagnosed dyslexic does. Use what fits and what inspires you to make changes that fit the kid and hang the label.

And no, I would not say stealth dyslexia around here. You don't know yet how things will pan out, but I personally think that would be very hurtful to my ds and dismissive of what he perceives as a disability (reading is HARD for him) to say well yours is only STEALTH dyslexia. The psych didn't say that, so don't say that. It's dyslexia, acknowledge it's a disability, let her say it's hard and don't cherrycoat it or say her numbers are so good it shouldn't be hard. That's not acknowledging the reality of what she's feeling. 

The other thing is that your AAS intervention assuredly bumped those scores. It's one of the things the psych is acknowledging in her diagnosis I think. It's not like you were doing the Fountas & Pinnell or Jan Richardson read the beginning and end and GUESS crap that is being taught in the ps. You actually taught her with materials that WOULD HAVE BEEN ENOUGH for some dyslexics. So her scores are slightly better, but the psych is like this is not passing the sniff test, it's dyslexia, call it dyslexia.

So don't hide in a corner or think you can't use the word. Call it what it is.

Ooo, congratulations!!! That's exciting that she's ready for that change!!

Well your psych already gave you bad advice on saying your dd won't qualify for an IEP. I definitely see what you're saying about not being ready to pay $15k on top. My advice is tour, learn how they do things. I LOVE what I learn and what they've been willing to share with me by touring. These are people who are really into what they're doing, so when you go in with questions more than a typical parent, they engage and enjoy it. 

You might not take your dd if you think it would break her heart. But for *you* to tour it and see what they do and pick up ideas, sure absolutely. I did take my ds when we toured the dyslexia school, and he was so funny. He said he'd like to go there for high school. Like even he perceived, lovely as it was, that it wasn't the right fit for him right now. So you never know, lol. 

She's pretty easy going, it might be fun for her! 

 

[Storygirl]

3 minutes ago, Lecka said:

I would hope she would qualify for an IEP wrt dysgraphia.  That has a lot going with it and maybe is impacting spelling, too.  

 

This is a good point!

[Runningmom80]

3 minutes ago, Lecka said:

I would hope she would qualify for an IEP wrt dysgraphia.  That has a lot going with it and maybe is impacting spelling, too.  

 

 

It's definitely impacting her spelling, but in 3rd grade they let a lot pass as "grade level."

[Runningmom80]

1 minute ago, Storygirl said:

OP, I do think it will be worthwhile to talk about the private testing results with the public school. I know you said you plan to try.

Depending on the school, you may be able to do this without going through the whole IEP process initially. Just contact the head of the special ed department and ask if they will look at the reports. We sent DS15's IEP to several high schools and asked, "What would you do for him if he enrolled at your school?" and then met with them. And these were schools where we did not even live in the district yet (we were evaluating which school district to move into).

Now, he had an IEP already, so they knew he would have one at their school.

But still, I am just saying that the IEP process is long and convoluted and not fun. And if someone at your school is willing to sit and talk with you before launching the process, you may be able to get the information you need.

Maybe, maybe not, but it would be worth a try, I think.

 

Thank you, I will look into who I talk to. It's hard because my kids just started in January, and we are almost to the end of the year so I feel a major time constraint. 

[Lecka]

I also just mention this — I would ask this — is it possible there is a gray area where your daughter wouldn’t qualify for OT but would qualify for accommodations at school?

It could go either way, but a lot of times — not qualifying for an IEP doesn’t mean “sorry, nothing for you,” it can mean that there are accommodations and teachers are willing to change some teaching methods, but there is no OT. 

It’s hard to know but it’s possible.

Also — it sounds like you have not been aware of her handwriting impacting her.  I think if you have known something was wrong and not realized it was handwriting ———- well handwriting is involved in a lot of things, and greater cognitive load with (possibly) non-automatic or fatiguing handwriting, is going to impact everything she does, in some way, whether it is leading to earlier fatigue, more frustration, etc — you just have to investigate and see.  

[Runningmom80]

I want to thank everyone for all the help! I don't think I'm coming across as grateful, but I truly am.

[Storygirl]

Following on my previous post about just having a conversation -- the special ed person might say that she doesn't think an IEP would be granted. You wouldn't need to take that as an official decision, because it would just be an opinion. You could still request that the school evaluate and see what happens.

But if she looks at the report and says Yes we have ways to help with this, then you have some reason to think that perhaps the school might be able to come around and help differently after all. And then the IEP process would happen and you would see.

The conversation would not replace the decision making of an IEP process. It just might give you an idea of whether your school is willing to work things out with you. Or not.