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TravelingChris

Huge fire at Notre Dame Cathedral- renovation related

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I don't see any way the whole thing won't collapse.  This is a super hot fire, and the church is so huge, it's going to be very difficult to fight.  They haven't even gotten any water onto the fire yet.  It's in the middle of other tall buildings, so air support is going to be pretty tough, too.  Wouldn't be surprised if they're just going to try to contain it.  A major, horrific tragedy.

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My choir sang there in college.  We recorded tracks for a cd in Notre Dame.  It was one of the coolest experiences of my life.  

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We visited the cathedral during our honeymoon in January 2004. My husband is shocked when I told him. 

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I was going to see it, in Paris, in just 3 weeks. I’m so sad!

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Apparently some few of the meaningful pieces had been removed temporarily during the refurbishing that was happening. Therefore, anything that was off site for that reason will have survived... I wonder which ones.

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13 minutes ago, bolt. said:

Apparently some few of the meaningful pieces had been removed temporarily during the refurbishing that was happening. Therefore, anything that was off site for that reason will have survived... I wonder which ones.

 

That's good.  Someone local just reported that the majority of the current work was on the spires and church had been going on as normal, artwork and relics in tact.  Which would mean it is all gone.

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I can’t look at the pictures. I guess grateful both kids have been as far up as one is allowed to go but I’m having a ridiculously emotional reaction to this.

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2 minutes ago, madteaparty said:

I can’t look at the pictures. I guess grateful both kids have been as far up as one is allowed to go but I’m having a ridiculously emotional reaction to this.

 

Me too, so emotional.  It feels spiritual.

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I can't believe how sad and sick I feel over this.

It's been over 25 years since I was in Paris.

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5 minutes ago, MysteryJen said:

I can't believe how sad and sick I feel over this.

It's been over 25 years since I was in Paris.

Same here on both counts.  

 

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I've been watching CBS News, which has mostly been BBC.  They had a woman on who was there for evening mass, they were evacuated with 15-20 minutes to go "for security purposes," and they didn't realize there was a fire until they were outside.

Also there was a guy on who was identified as the Deputy Mayor of Paris who said the fire started on the roof.  The bishop was able to direct saving "some art, some paintings," before evacuation.  He also said they will definitely rebuild.

 

ETA: Oh and several people there said at the beginning of the fire the smoke had a weird green color.  Does anyone remember enough from chemistry to know what on a roof might cause a weird green color?  I don't.  Copper?

Edited by Katy

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6 minutes ago, Katy said:

ETA: Oh and several people there said at the beginning of the fire the smoke had a weird green color.  Does anyone remember enough from chemistry to know what on a roof might cause a weird green color?  I don't.  Copper?

 

Maybe Metal-Ion-Flame-Test-Colours-Jan-15.png

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I’m so sad. We were making plans to go there next year.

It is awful.  I have a friend there now.  She posted to FB that people are filling the streets singing catholic hymns in sorrow.  So that tipped me over from really sad to a blubbering mess.

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3 hours ago, Katy said:

 

Also there was a guy on who was identified as the Deputy Mayor of Paris who said the fire started on the roof.  The bishop was able to direct saving "some art, some paintings," before evacuation.  He also said they will definitely rebuild.

 

 

There's no way.  I'm sure a *structure* can be remade, but the art is gone, the windows are gone and the public and cultural spirituality with which the cathedral was built over two centuries is gone.  

Indeed much of the craftsmanship used to make the building is no longer known.

A hate group burned a Catholic church building in France--and I think it was in Paris--a couple of months ago.  There was nowhere *near* the damage that Notre Dame has sustained, and the estimates to restore (not reconstruct) the burned portions to make them useful (not to make them "the same") were in the *billions* of dollars.  (At least that was what the article I read said about a week after it happened.)

It is so sad.  

ETA:  I hope I’m being a pessimist.  I might be about structural issues.   But I don’t think I am about the ability for post-Christian culture to rebuild a Cathedral.  We have a perfect example of what happens in rebuilding in the US with the Greek Church that was destroyed by one of the Twin Towers.

 

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I am in shock. It was just over a year ago by two weeks that I was there. 

I am wondering about all the relics and artifacts in the building. There are unique items in there, like baptismal gowns and bones of saints. 

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There's a drone image here from above which shows the whole interior on fire.  And they are now saying they may not be able to save it at all.  So sad.  Thankfully, it seems no injuries or fatalities.  And it seems that most if not all of the art and relics have been saved.  I hope that whatever started the fire was out of human control at all.  It would be awful if it was intentional, though it seems they don't believe that to be the case at this time.  It would be almost as awful if it were unintentional but caused but outright carelessness, such as someone improperly disposing of a cigarette or similar.  And I just couldn't imagine if it was something completely accidental by a totally unintentional mistake...being the person to have made that mistake.  

Edited by happysmileylady

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1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

There's a drone image here from above which shows the whole interior on fire.  And they are now saying they may not be able to save it at all.  So sad.  Thankfully, it seems no injuries or fatalities.  And it seems that most if not all of the art and relics have been saved.  I hope that whatever started the fire was out of human control at all.  It would be awful if it was intentional, though it seems they don't believe that to be the case at this time.  It would be almost as awful if it were unintentional but caused but outright carelessness, such as someone improperly disposing of a cigarette or similar.  And I just couldn't imagine if it was something completely accidental by a totally unintentional mistake...being the person to have made that mistake.  

Totally not of the same consequence, but when my son was 4, he attended preschool at a local church.  The church was having its roof replaced.  

We had our Mother's Day Tea and I took my son home.  It was a 15 minute drive.  I walked in the door and my phone was ringing--a classmate's mom told me to turn on the TV--the church was on fire.  The whole church (and preschool) burned to the ground in 3 hours.  It turns out that the roofers were putting down the last sheet of torch-down roofing and a stray spark got onto the insulating material underneath; that was all it took.  One spark.  The fire station was 2 blocks away and came immediately, but there was nothing they could do.  The families visited the next day and cried and cried--all the melted toys and scorched kid art and all the memories...  My son's preschool class met for the last two weeks at our house.  

The wood framing of Notre Dame is 800-year-old oak; the wooden structure supports the whole edifice; it's not stone-on-stone, but stone over and around a skeleton of wood.  The wood that supports the roof is exposed and it is in *perfect* formation to create a chimney effect.  With the wood being so dry and with that formation, it probably didn't take much of anything for the whole thing to go up at the slightest cause and without any hope of redress.  Even if the stone lasted, the supporting skeleton is very likely to be compromised and so even the remnants might not be safe or repairable.

The cathedral was under repair work because it was crumbling; cracks were appearing in the edifice after all these years.  The Catholic Church had solicited funds from all around the world to pay for the renovations.

All of this doesn't make it any less sad.  It's just information...  

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I saw the news today and knew you guys would understand. My choir sung there in 1999, Terebinth, and that was amazing. So sad. 

3 hours ago, Terabith said:

My choir sang there in college.  We recorded tracks for a cd in Notre Dame.  It was one of the coolest experiences of my life.  

 

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There’s no way they will ever rebuild in the sense of recreating what it was before today. The materials and the craftsmanship for so much of it simply no longer exists.

But it can be rebuilt in the sense that The Church can and likely will rebuild a Cathedral there. 

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A firefighter has sustained serious injuries.  Praying for him.

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3 hours ago, Elfknitter.# said:

My inner medieval studies major heart is dying. I had always wanted to see it.

My architecture major heart is so sad.

ETA: They're saying the bronze statues from the roof were removed for renovation (something that almost never happens) and have therefore been saved. Also, most of the artwork and icons were pulled out in time.

Edited by mom2scouts
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We were doing our social studies unit on Europe (Explore the Continents from Catholic Heritage) and just learned about Notre Dame on Friday. DD is so sad. So am I. 

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We have been researching locations and people as we read The Immortal Nicholas Flamel series. Dr. John Dee and Machiavelli had animated all of the gargoyles at Notre Dame to attack. So we had been studying that area recently. So sad! 

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From CNBC https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/04/15/paris-notre-dame-cathedral-on-fire-reuters.html

“Paris' Notre Dame Cathedral has been saved from "total destruction," according to a French fire official, after a massive fire ripped through the structure on Monday and caused the roof and main spire to collapse.

While it will take another three or four more hours to contain the fire, the official said the two towers have now been saved. That news come as a sign of relief after one of the towers caught fire earlier in the evening. Earlier, a French Interior Ministry official had said that firefighters might not be able to save the cathedral.”

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It really does feel like such a loss. Those rose windows! This was a piece of all of us, of the heritage of our culture. I'm not Catholic nor have I ever been to Paris, I'm surprised how much this feels like a gut-punch...

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5 hours ago, bolt. said:

Apparently some few of the meaningful pieces had been removed temporarily during the refurbishing that was happening. Therefore, anything that was off site for that reason will have survived... I wonder which ones.

 

The statues of the 12 apostles were removed a few days ago, so they were definitely spared. 

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3 hours ago, Katy said:

I've been watching CBS News, which has mostly been BBC.  They had a woman on who was there for evening mass, they were evacuated with 15-20 minutes to go "for security purposes," and they didn't realize there was a fire until they were outside.

Also there was a guy on who was identified as the Deputy Mayor of Paris who said the fire started on the roof.  The bishop was able to direct saving "some art, some paintings," before evacuation.  He also said they will definitely rebuild.

 

ETA: Oh and several people there said at the beginning of the fire the smoke had a weird green color.  Does anyone remember enough from chemistry to know what on a roof might cause a weird green color?  I don't.  Copper?

 

Boric acid, for one. 

Edited by Seasider too

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Apparently the vast majority of art inside was removed before it could be damaged. Firefighters took things out to keep it safe as the fire blazed on the roof. If you’ve been, I think they mean all the stuff in the main part of the cathedral in all the little chapels.

One rose window shattered. But apparently they’re optimistic about most of the glass. I guess we’ll see. Some of it is definitely intact.

The whole interior wooden frame and latticework is gone. That included very old stuff. Also, the roof and the spire.

At one point, they thought the bells might fall and the tower might collapse. They saved it. If you look at the photos, you’ll see that the whole stone interior is still there.

It’ll never be the same, but they’ll definitely restore it. 😥 I’m so glad to have seen it. My boys were so little when we went, but Mushroom said he does remember it (mostly because Grandma tripped and hurt her knee coming out!).

Edited by Farrar
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52 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Apparently the vast majority of art inside was removed before it could be damaged. Firefighters took things out to keep it safe as the fire blazed on the roof. If you’ve been, I think they mean all the stuff in the main part of the cathedral in all the little chapels.

One rose window shattered. But apparently they’re optimistic about most of the glass. I guess we’ll see. Some of it is definitely intact.

The whole interior wooden frame and latticework is gone. That included very old stuff. Also, the roof and the spire.

At one point, they thought the bells might fall and the tower might collapse. They saved it. If you look at the photos, you’ll see that the whole stone interior is still there.

It’ll never be the same, but they’ll definitely restore it. 😥 I’m so glad to have seen it. My boys were so little when we went, but Mushroom said he does remember it (mostly because Grandma tripped and hurt her knee coming out!).

according to a news report I read earlier, three rose windows have shattered due to the heat.  rosette north, rosette west, and rosette south.   

 

Edited by gardenmom5
confused one of the directions.

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This hit me in the gut when I heard it in the news.  I'd been there three times, and it's the neighborhood I've always stayed in.  The journalist I was listening to said that wailing could be heard throughout the streets as people stood and watched, stunned.  The pictures are really shocking.

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Actually, the pictures I'm seeing now of the interior look shockingly undamaged.  I mean, the spire (from the 1800's) is gone, but the interior of the main part of the church is pretty good.  One or two of the windows are destroyed, but there's far less destruction than I feared from seeing the fire from the outside.  They're saying all the art and relics and such were all saved.  I'm not sure how, but I know a bunch had been removed from the premises because of the renovation.  For a fire that big and that hot, it looks rather like a miraculously small amount of damage.  

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As a medievalist who studies 12th century England, I'm heartbroken. Me and the other medievalist at school were practically in tears, she had been there, I have not. 

We talked about it our medieval class tonight. Apparently much/some of the glass in the windows has been replaced at some point. Apparently glass will "melt" over time and they were having issues with the panes falling out. So there is some original glass that had been removed (probably years ago) and is housed elsewhere. 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Arcadia said:

 

Maybe Metal-Ion-Flame-Test-Colours-Jan-15.png

It'll be the lead. 250lbs of lead, in the spire. "...the wood and lead spire was built during a restoration in the mid-19th century...."

I wonder if the lead is airborne and making the smoke particularly toxic?

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