Scribing for math, typing for math...

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

Ok, I just pulled up SM IP. I had looked at it before. The 3A would be independent work for him. 4A is a lot of writing.

So you'll laugh, but as I'm looking through samples, it looks like the pages of Tang Math we just got. 

So we'll see. It's cute, kind of thinky. I have to think about whether it duplicates what we're already doing. As as you say, I never give him workbooks. I buy ebooks and print them onto single pages so we can do a pile and just work through it, very low stress. So it has to be enough different from what we're doing and enough better to be worth the amount of effort it would take to fix the format problems, if that makes sense. But it's cute, I see why  you like it. If it came as an ebook, it would be easier for me to like it, lol. Also we usually do less things per page, which helps with behavior. So he might only have 3 questions on the page with a data box at the top. Maybe up to 10. Once you move up to 20 tasks on a page, suddenly I'm having to break that up a lot. That slows down the flow. Much easier if I can find something that has the same thought process but less on the page. 

But I can see why you like it and I'll keep it in mind! I know it's unfathomable and I guess I could just use whatever, use BJU straight, etc. I know people doing that, like doing Abeka straight and using a $15 an hour aide to make it happen. I don't. I put less things on the page and I expect COMPLETE ENGAGEMENT. But that's how I'm getting there, sigh. And maybe that would be a thing later I'd change, but like I said it needs to be that important or that good. But I can see why you like it, yes. 

If I were using it with someone who only did bits, I would put it on my scanner and make a very small section the size of a whole page.

I haven't heard of Tang Math.

I think complete engagement is the goal. My suggestions are only to give you more ideas if you are stumped. 🙂 

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

That probably is it. He was doing something funky yesterday with patterning balls and he was seeing it as a triangle and not seeing the order of the component balls. He really tripped him up for a while, lol. I think the simultaneous thinking book from RFWP is going to nail that really nicely or at least be a good next step. I hadn't seen anything in print beside Cartwright for that, so I'm excited.

Yeah, older DS did a bit of that, but not enough to freak out about. He could see it if someone pointed it out. Still not great at patterning though!

That book might nail that. I wouldn't have thought about it for that, but I can see where it could go that way. 

I am glad you're doing the music therapy still. Good stuff!

[PeterPan]

4 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I've been thinking this over all morning in terms of my own kid (we're having to do multi-line equations now) and I was reminded of an experience a friend of mine had. Her kid struggled to write math problems and so she ended up blowing up the math problems so only 2-3 would fit per page.  Her kid could write the problems well when he was writing them in huge spaces.  He did that for 2-3 years and now can write them appropriately much smaller. That hasn't been our experience, but I thought I'd throw that out there....

Can you describe what happens when he puts a pencil in hand and he goes to write himself?  

That is brilliant, love it. I will definitely keep that in mind. 

Ds has been in OT for handwriting for some time now. He was making a little progress with an OT but I tried another thinking I could stack services. Well the next OT was this dragon OT who thought her charm was enough to overcome poor methodologies. He totally stopped writing ANYTHING. So we waited till the previous OT had an opening and got an hour slot. He's now willing to write something again, and by something I mean he wrote some numbers to make price tag signs for his play store this week. I ask him to write nothing beyond that, because honestly if you saw how hard it was you wouldn't either. 

He can copy a few sentences with enough time and effort and they'll be legible. He did that for me for a multi-week invention project for the OT and it worked. She wanted him to do another but I was falling down on the job and didn't get the invention done, let alone the writing. They tried to do it in session, with him writing directly from his thoughts, and it was utterly unbelievable. Like illegible, just very little, utterly illegible. 

So he's basically very limited for any functional writing at all, and that's AFTER a year total of OT with 45-60 minute sessions. He wrote me a note a couple days ago and made it legible, and I have it because it was in my exercise notebook, haha. I think it was "go to ___" with the name of his aunt (3 letters). He meant "I went to Aunt xxx's" and that was what we got. But it was LEGIBLE and he felt comfortable enough that he would actually try, all of which I really respected.

They tried to work on handwriting with his ABA people a few years ago and they were like nope, let's just drop this from the list. It was clear it was not a behavioral thing that just doing more of was going to fix, that something was really wrong. I'm always open to options and explanations and things that will help, but it's just another glitchy thing on his total package. I've had to just kind of chill and say ok the OT is working on it.

So the Lane/RFWP workbooks are going to bring in a SMALL amount of writing, and I actually think it will work and be brilliant. I'm able to scale the writing requirements down while keeping the overall level of the task up enough that I really think he can do them. So I'm kind of cautiously optimistic that maybe doing the workbooks will get us somewhere. It's worth a shot. 

[PeterPan]

14 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Can you describe what happens when he puts a pencil in hand and he goes to write himself?

There's nothing perceptibly wrong as far as grip, hand strength, that kind of thing. It's all in his brain, where the visual (in memory or in front of him) has to turn into motor planning. Everyone seems to agree on that. The things that the OT are doing, like drawing figures with dot grids, are similar to what the VT workbooks are saying to do. So it's not like some radically different approach. It's just she isn't giving me homework and I think we could make more progress if we were working on this every day. And she's very much about go back to the roots, do the precursor skills, and that's the only thing that has gotten him anywhere.

[exercise_guru]

Have you considered getting number tiles and having him form the computations with those on a cookie sheet he can slide the tiles and carry the 1's etc. Also there are variables and everything that you can work division addition etc without writing anything really. He could get really fast at sliding those tiles around. Use color for the + - etc as it helps push it into the brain. 

Also do you do number lines? I know alot of people do not like core math but I love it because you create models for things using manipulation stuff. He can literally show you what he is thinking without writing anything. 

Now I did use a book called "math for visual learners" but I think the abstraction is just too complex for most kids. I prefer the number line because it's like a hopscotch board you jump forward and backward. I also prefer models because you can see them with different tactiles like money. ... paperclips etc. 

At one time I thought of teaching my son the abacus because it is such a great way to do math. 

For story problems you can use swimming in lanes etc . Things that you can visualize. Money that you can manipulate so he can show you that he has "got it" 

my son who has CAPD has the hardest time on exams explaining how he did a problem . Also at school they love to give problems like "Betty did this problems and got the wrong answer. Write down or explain what she did wrong or how her answer was incorrect" It is very very hard for my so to do that and so you are likely reaching though many layers of disability with story problems .  I have found that with my son I have to make sure I am testing in the area I want and remediation bottom up not trying to go too far over where he can reach. 

If you try story problems start with dots on the floor and have him walk back and forth with numbers ( take 5 steps forward now add two steps. Now take two steps back etc)

 

A final idea is surely there is a computer game that he could play and put numbers into with a 10 key attached to a computer. This would be a good supplement especially if you did this with him. fill in the blanks etc I am sorry I don't have a good program to recommend. 

we used a myscript type  math program on the ipad but it was far to challenging to handle with ease I was very frusterated using it. I will have to look up the app but if the number even remotely looks right it puts it on the screen correctly. Can he push the numbers on the ipad to right equation. 

I have more ideas but do not have a lot of internet time right now. I will try to post more when I can. One thing that is important about the scribing is that I am very very mathematical but I would have a terrible time scribing math. As an example,  I have recently had some severe problems with my hands( neuropathy from Chemo). I can't lift things and I can't organize things.  I have had to basically give oral directions to my daughter to help me.  It has been like a very poor skit where I say one thing and she does something else. I don't know how I every got that pantry organized. 

Edited April 8, 2019 by exercise_guru