Well I did the paperwork...

[EMS83]

The two boys really liked the elementary school when we toured.  They'd been apprehensive before, so I decided to run with it and did all the paperwork yesterday.  They'll start after spring break, diving into testing.  Since it's the last two months and they'll be out at the end of May, it's ok.  Still sad, but mostly I have peace.  Mostly.  My educational philosophy is totally different from schools.  I guess my ideal at this point would be a secular classical hybrid school nearby, but there isn't one.  And unlike the homeschooling pioneers, I am so not up for starting my own when I can't find the resources I need.  Maybe after a break.  🙂 

[maize]

Sounds like you've got a way forward 🙂 I hope it goes well for them.

[EMS83]

I can't tell yet.  And me too.  🙂  I'll still cry, though.  I sort of feel like I'm firing myself from the only job I wanted.

[Pen]

I’m sorry tou’re Feeling sad!  

But also glad that you’ll get a respite and that your kids so far liked it.  Testing time and after should be a fine, pretty low key intro.    You can reassess at the start of summer.

[EMS83]

They said both boys need to be retained in their current grade.  And summer school has been mentioned about three times already.  Whether they go to the charter school or return to the public school, this will be the case.  idk.  The Mama guilt is threatening, but I also want to defend homeschooling, and myself.  They're upset they won't move on with their friends (though for my older son, that wouldn't have happened anyway--it was either charter school or home).  Neither wants to go to the charter school, and this may affect their wait list status, anyway, as they are wait listed for specific grades, not the school as a whole (emailing the registrar soon).  Anyway.  Feeling low, I guess.  Hormonal, too.  I guess the good thing is they missed most of the school year, so most of it will be new?  But I think putting them in was a mistake for them; apparently most of the last quarter is review and testing of materials they were never presented.  I needed the break, but now they feel less than.  Youngest said they were stupid, and my middle said the prophecy of going to school and getting bad grades came true (I'm not sure whose prophecy that was).  😞 

[DawnM]

11 minutes ago, CES2005 said:

They said both boys need to be retained in their current grade.  And summer school has been mentioned about three times already.  Whether they go to the charter school or return to the public school, this will be the case.  idk.  The Mama guilt is threatening, but I also want to defend homeschooling, and myself.  They're upset they won't move on with their friends (though for my older son, that wouldn't have happened anyway--it was either charter school or home).  Neither wants to go to the charter school, and this may affect their wait list status, anyway, as they are wait listed for specific grades, not the school as a whole (emailing the registrar soon).  Anyway.  Feeling low, I guess.  Hormonal, too.  I guess the good thing is they missed most of the school year, so most of it will be new?  But I think putting them in was a mistake for them; apparently most of the last quarter is review and testing of materials they were never presented.  I needed the break, but now they feel less than.  Youngest said they were stupid, and my middle said the prophecy of going to school and getting bad grades came true (I'm not sure whose prophecy that was).  😞 

 

Are they pushing for retention?  Can you fight it?  

You are not less than, and neither are your kids.

[RootAnn]

Have you decided to keep them in school then? Or is pulling them to homeschool again a possibility? Did you get your break? What do they want?

[Pen]

If they do summer school, could they move ahead with the new friends next year? 

Edited May 24, 2019 by Pen

[EMS83]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

 

Are they pushing for retention?  Can you fight it?  

You are not less than, and neither are your kids.

Thank you.  🙂  I'm mainly worried about their self-worth, especially because this is not their fault at all.  And the instructional coach said they didn't meet state requirements for advancement, so I'm not sure pushing or fighting come into play.  😕 I mean, if that's how they do things, that's how they do things.  For youngest, I'd probably make the same call, too.  He flat out failed.  And probably, I should have stuck him in 2nd and not 3rd; he's really young for his grade and I essentially "held him back" a year from the start.  That was a bad call on my part; he wouldn't have been tested or stuck on a Chromebook if I'd done that.  My older boy failed one out of the four subjects.  And they both had to retake the standardized tests.  I'm just...idk.  I do think it's ego.  And the fact that there's no "back a year in math, ahead a year in content" for B&M schools.  Especially for the 11-year-old, since it's just one subject.

1 hour ago, RootAnn said:

Have you decided to keep them in school then? Or is pulling them to homeschool again a possibility? Did you get your break? What do they want?

2019-2020 was supposed to be a sabbatical.  Should this new development change that?  I guess that's what I'm wondering, for whatever reason.  They don't want to go to the charter school; they want to go back to the PS, but also don't want to be in school "forever."  My older son says it takes up too much of the day (I agree).  But I needed the break; I'm pretty sure I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown for a whole bunch of reasons.  I've made many changes, so we'll see how it holds up when I summer school them.

15 minutes ago, Pen said:

If they do summer school, could they move ahead with the new friends next year? 

I don't think so, but I didn't ask that question.  My impression was it would simply to give them a better start for their current grades next year.  And as far as I can tell from the papers they've sent home, it's just two 4-day sessions, and we'd miss two days, anyway.  I'm not sure what they plan to do in that time.  I'm giving us a break next week and one before school starts, and will still have a full 9 weeks for seatwork.

[maize]

Sounds like a tough situation.

It sounds like the boys do mostly want to go back to school? 

Retaining kids is tough socially, though this situation where they were only there for the last term of the school year isn't quite like being retained when they've been in the same class for a year or more. Have you talked to your boys about how the specific sequence and grade in which schools teach things is very arbitrary; being tested on stuff that this school taught when they weren't there says nothing either about how smart they are or about how much they have learned in the past year. You can tell them my story if it helps--I was homeschooled through second grade, then between 3rd and 12th grades attended 8 different schools in two different states plus four foreign countries. What one school was teaching in grade 3 or 5 or 7 was never the same as what another school was teaching; no matter what school I was coming from and how much I had learned the year before I was always behind and had to catch up on some stuff at the new school because they were all teaching different things in different grades.

I have redshirted my summer birthday boys, I just felt like they could use the extra time developmentally. Several of my kids have been in and out of school at one point or another.

Do you have any concerns about potential learning disabilities? If so I'd initiate the school evaluation process now.

Edited May 24, 2019 by maize

[Pen]

 

36 minutes ago, CES2005 said:

I don't think so, but I didn't ask that question.  My impression was it would simply to give them a better start for their current grades next year.  And as far as I can tell from the papers they've sent home, it's just two 4-day sessions, and we'd miss two days, anyway.  I'm not sure what they plan to do in that time.  I'm giving us a break next week and one before school starts, and will still have a full 9 weeks for seatwork.

 

Oh that’s not much.  

Maybe a summer off for everyone and then school next year in the lower grade option for each would be better.  

My son is in the lower / redshirt grade option and there was a time of social embarrassment, but overall it seems to have been the better placement to be the oldest in his class instead of one of the younger and more lost in class above.    He was also small and emotionally young for his age.  

[DawnM]

55 minutes ago, CES2005 said:

Thank you.  🙂  I'm mainly worried about their self-worth, especially because this is not their fault at all.  And the instructional coach said they didn't meet state requirements for advancement, so I'm not sure pushing or fighting come into play.  😕 I mean, if that's how they do things, that's how they do things.  For youngest, I'd probably make the same call, too.  He flat out failed.  And probably, I should have stuck him in 2nd and not 3rd; he's really young for his grade and I essentially "held him back" a year from the start.  That was a bad call on my part; he wouldn't have been tested or stuck on a Chromebook if I'd done that.  My older boy failed one out of the four subjects.  And they both had to retake the standardized tests.  I'm just...idk.  I do think it's ego.  And the fact that there's no "back a year in math, ahead a year in content" for B&M schools.  Especially for the 11-year-old, since it's just one subject.

 

In my district, if the parent fight it, they usually win.  Not always, but definitely in the case of your older son failing only one subject.  And tutoring would be suggested over the summer or remediation once he came back to school.

55 minutes ago, CES2005 said:

2019-2020 was supposed to be a sabbatical.  Should this new development change that?  I guess that's what I'm wondering, for whatever reason.  They don't want to go to the charter school; they want to go back to the PS, but also don't want to be in school "forever."  My older son says it takes up too much of the day (I agree).  But I needed the break; I'm pretty sure I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown for a whole bunch of reasons.  I've made many changes, so we'll see how it holds up when I summer school them.

I don't think so, but I didn't ask that question.  My impression was it would simply to give them a better start for their current grades next year.  And as far as I can tell from the papers they've sent home, it's just two 4-day sessions, and we'd miss two days, anyway.  I'm not sure what they plan to do in that time.  I'm giving us a break next week and one before school starts, and will still have a full 9 weeks for seatwork.

 

Could you just do Time4Learning for a while and let them do most of their schooling on their own?  Time4Learning is also suggested fairly often for a summer subject boost.

[EMS83]

I signed their paper already; can it be fought after that?  Their justification for my 5th grader is that the good grades he got were gotten with a lot of help from the teachers--small groups, modified assignments, etc.

And I have our stuff for summer.  We weren't computer-based, so those things don't tend to occur to me.  I'll look into it, though.

 

*edit* I also think I have cold feet.  I'm feeling tons better than when I dumped them in in April, and have been realizing I'll lose a whole year of homeschooling.  Maybe I just want this to be a convenient excuse to keep them home?

Edited May 24, 2019 by CES2005

[maize]

Ah, well, if you want to keep them home that is a different matter entirely!

I had several children in school this year and, frankly, I'm more burned out from a year of dealing with school than I ever have been from homeschooling. I am bringing all of mine home again next year (it will be the first time in three years that I haven't had at least one child in school) and am very much looking forward to it.

[EMS83]

I'm happy they're home for the summer (DD feels the opposite; I don't even make her do much with them).  I don't want them to be in school; I just needed them to be (or thought I did?  No clue).  I was breaking down pretty badly and did need the mental and emotional break, one way or another.  It also helped us all start getting up at the crack of dawn, which I like.  The past few months have shown me a lot of traps I was falling into, and there's been a lot of evaluation going on--what would I do differently if we could start over, what can we do differently going forward?  What are my must haves for self care?  How can I keep track of all these perennial to-dos that are never to-done?  What do I really have to let go?  So on and so forth.  And I agree, school is highly inconvenient; I have felt much busier while they've been in school than I did beforehand.  I have no idea how families have two working parents and kids in school and do all the things.  I will say, though, this house stayed soooo much cleaner and tidier these past two months.  Something needs to give there, or I need to get over the idea that my house can be clean and tidy with kids and dogs in it.

[RootAnn]

6 minutes ago, CES2005 said:

The past few months have shown me a lot of traps I was falling into, and there's been a lot of evaluation going on--what would I do differently if we could start over, what can we do differently going forward?  What are my must haves for self care?  How can I keep track of all these perennial to-dos that are never to-done?  What do I really have to let go? 

This is great. Make sure you write the questions, your thoughts, and all your ideas down. It might take some experimenting to figure things out. I would definitely start this summer the way you mean to go on (so get them up early, for example). 

We have chores for the kids which work sometimes better than others. I'd also ponder setting aside time for yourself first and having a half day *each week* scheduled in for errands, doc appts, or a field trip. You can also use it for doing one "to do" if none of the other things gets scheduled.

[Pen]

8 hours ago, CES2005 said:

I signed their paper already; can it be fought after that?  Their justification for my 5th grader is that the good grades he got were gotten with a lot of help from the teachers--small groups, modified assignments, etc.

And I have our stuff for summer.  We weren't computer-based, so those things don't tend to occur to me.  I'll look into it, though.

 

*edit* I also think I have cold feet.  I'm feeling tons better than when I dumped them in in April, and have been realizing I'll lose a whole year of homeschooling.  Maybe I just want this to be a convenient excuse to keep them home?

 

You were very burnt out seeming.  Think hard before you decide if you want to commit to homeschooling again so soon. You might need a longer break.  Also did you get the guns issue  sorted—so you won’t be stressed about that over summer?

[EMS83]

That thread was deleted, Pen.  I'd rather not derail this one with topics that seem to set everyone off.  I really didn't need some of those comments at that point, and I could do without them now.  However, I'm willing to PM a little on that topic.

As for what I need, as I already said upthread, this summer will test the changes I've made and will tell me what I need to know in that regard.

 

*editing to make clear* I know not all those comments came from you; I'm not laying all of that at your feet.

Edited May 25, 2019 by CES2005

[Pen]

6 hours ago, CES2005 said:

That thread was deleted, Pen.  I'd rather not derail this one with topics that seem to set everyone off.  I really didn't need some of those comments at that point, and I could do without them now.  However, I'm willing to PM a little on that topic.

As for what I need, as I already said upthread, this summer will test the changes I've made and will tell me what I need to know in that regard.

 

What I’d be concerned about would be getting back into burnout part way through the year.  It would probably be better to let the dc go to brick and mortar school for a whole school year rather than burning out part way through .

 How will a summer will tell you the answer? 

 

[EMS83]

15 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

What I’d be concerned about would be getting back into burnout part way through the year.  It would probably be better to let the dc go to brick and mortar school for a whole school year rather than burning out part way through .

 How will a summer will tell you the answer? 

Because it will test the changes I made and it will test me.  Then I can reassess and adjust. 

[Pen]

2 hours ago, CES2005 said:

Because it will test the changes I made and it will test me.  Then I can reassess and adjust. 

 

Sounds like a reasonable plan, then.  Remember that you don’t need to send all or none to school.  You could decide what would work best for each child. 

[maize]

2 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Sounds like a reasonable plan, then.  Remember that you don’t need to send all or none to school.  You could decide what would work best for each child. 

This is true, and sending only some is a choice I have made and may make again at some point. 

I'll just caution that for me having some in school and some at home has been far, far more difficult than having everyone home was; you deal with the challenges of both. I made the schooling decisions I did based on my assessment of what would be best for each child and given the whole picture of our circumstances, needs and opportunities and I don't regret this past year but I have never in my life been this tired and ready to be done with a particular challenge.

Could be entirely different for someone else.

[EMS83]

4 hours ago, maize said:

This is true, and sending only some is a choice I have made and may make again at some point. 

I'll just caution that for me having some in school and some at home has been far, far more difficult than having everyone home was; you deal with the challenges of both. I made the schooling decisions I did based on my assessment of what would be best for each child and given the whole picture of our circumstances, needs and opportunities and I don't regret this past year but I have never in my life been this tired and ready to be done with a particular challenge.

Could be entirely different for someone else.

Oh dear; I'm sure it could, but it does sound exhausting, especially with the age spread.  I hope your summer is restful!  DD was still home during this time.  It was fine because she's largely independent and generally cooperative.  So far we haven't had the middle school drama I keep hearing about.  And the other two were at the same school, so it was probably the easiest scenario of "some in, some out" that could possibly be.  But it felt like family life had to be squished to each end of the day; it was just new and uncomfortable.

My youngest let me know tonight that he doesn't want to go back to the same school so that he won't be embarrassed there.  The oldest boy (middle child) is fine with going back and making new friends with the rising 5th graders.  DD most emphatically does not want to go at all.  She tells me nearly every day.

 

[moonflower]

poor kiddos; I really think they should have done more comprehensive testing when you put them in (I think they should do this more often for incoming homeschoolers) and let you know if they thought there'd be a problem advancing with the class, being so close to the end of the year.  It sounds like they dropped the ball and I'm irritated on your behalf.

We put our oldest 3 (8th, 5th, 1st) in PS this past Oct., and they did no entrance testing.  Oldest DD has been in PS before and was tested into the gifted program so she had that paperwork and they enrolled her in Alg. and the gifted pull-out based on that, but for whatever reason they didn't put her in the advanced Language Arts class, which eventually determines placement and access to APs in HS.  At semester they let her switch, but it was on her own request - it never would have occured to them independently.

DS (5th) was the top reader in his grade by many degrees (700 AR points vs the next highest kid had 200!) and the top student in his math class, but they only recommended he move up to the advanced ELA and math classes for next year; they didn't entrance test him or even ask what his strengths were.  

It worked out, but I can definitely see it having gone the other way - there was just not a lot of direction on their end.

[EMS83]

On 5/25/2019 at 10:25 PM, moonflower said:

poor kiddos; I really think they should have done more comprehensive testing when you put them in (I think they should do this more often for incoming homeschoolers) and let you know if they thought there'd be a problem advancing with the class, being so close to the end of the year.  It sounds like they dropped the ball and I'm irritated on your behalf.

We put our oldest 3 (8th, 5th, 1st) in PS this past Oct., and they did no entrance testing.  Oldest DD has been in PS before and was tested into the gifted program so she had that paperwork and they enrolled her in Alg. and the gifted pull-out based on that, but for whatever reason they didn't put her in the advanced Language Arts class, which eventually determines placement and access to APs in HS.  At semester they let her switch, but it was on her own request - it never would have occured to them independently.

DS (5th) was the top reader in his grade by many degrees (700 AR points vs the next highest kid had 200!) and the top student in his math class, but they only recommended he move up to the advanced ELA and math classes for next year; they didn't entrance test him or even ask what his strengths were.  

It worked out, but I can definitely see it having gone the other way - there was just not a lot of direction on their end.

As far as I can tell, the entrance or baseline test are one minute timed quizzes in math, reading, and one other area (I'll have to dig out my notes this evening).  The only one either of them bombed was youngest with reading.  And yeah, no one told me they did that quiz or what the results were.  Communication is definitely lacking, and shouldn't be foisted off onto the kids.  But they cited state requirements, so I didn't see where there was much of a choice.  I'm waiting to get feedback from the charter school.  Maybe they have more flexibility than the PS seems to.  Otherwise...meh.  I may have to disappoint my 11-year-old.

[Pen]

 

Quote

My youngest let me know tonight that he doesn't want to go back to the same school so that he won't be embarrassed there. 

 

Whether he goes to the school or not, such feelings would probably be worth working on.

Some kids seem to respond to being held back as an opportunity to have friends in two classes; some seem to be mortified with embarrassment; some find it no huge big deal     Being able to handle something like that, a set back, without it causing a sense of embarrassment to the point of avoidance could be a very valuable life skill

 

in future if I suggest a public school trial though,  I may say something about choice of grade level if it’s an option, and considering personality of child when deciding what grade to try first — if they’re a child who would feel bad if they were not up with the material of a particular grade