News(FYI): The lesser-known way wealthy students have an edge in college admissions

[Arcadia]

From MarketWatch https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-lesser-known-way-wealthy-students-have-an-edge-in-college-admissions-recruitment-by-top-public-colleges-2019-03-27

Research study link https://www.dropbox.com/s/f1j45l5eylmy0ub/joyce_report_rotated.pdf?dl=0

Public universities listed in study are NCState, Rutgers, Stony Brook, Alabama, Arkansas, UC Berkeley, UC Irvine, Cincinnati, CU Boulder, Georgia, Kansas, UMass, Nebraska, Pittsburgh, S.Carolina

“Though public flagship universities are often billed as engines of social and economic mobility for students and families in their states, their admissions representatives spend much of their time wooing out-of-state students from wealthy high schools, according to a study published Tuesday by the Joyce Foundation, a nonprofit focused on racial equity and economic mobility. 

At 12 out of 15 public universities examined by the researchers, who are based at the University of California Los Angeles and the University of Arizona, recruiters made more out-of-state visits than in-state visits in 2017. At seven of the public schools studied, recruiters visited out-of-state high schools more than twice as many times as in-state high schools. 

All of the universities studied were more likely to visit out-of-state public high schools in high-income areas than out-of-state high schools in low-income communities. The same was true for most of the universities’ in-state visits, though recruiters tilted more towards wealthy public high schools out-of-state than they did in-state.

...

The study findings were based on a combination of information on high school visits pulled from the websites of public flagship colleges as well as public records requests to those schools. The researchers only included colleges in the sample if they felt they could gather comprehensive data about their recruiting visits. 

“It appears that the majority of public flagship universities in our country spend most of their effort recruiting out of state students rather than the students from the states they were founded to serve,” said Ozan Jaquette, a professor at UCLA’s Graduate School of Education & Information Studies and one of the authors of the study.

...

In addition, frequent visits and an ongoing relationship with a high school provide a college with a level of familiarity with students’ courses of study that can be beneficial when admissions officers are reviewing applications. 

But perhaps most crucially, the visits signal the colleges’ priorities when it comes to enrollment, Jaquette said. And his findings run counter to much of the rhetoric coming from flagship universities who say they’re committed to increasing access to their institutions. 

Instead, the reality is, “we’re in a period of really hyper competition among public universities to get wealthier out of state students in,” Burd said. “These publics that are doing this are mimicking what private colleges and universities have been doing for years.””

[Mabelen]

Once again, it’s very clear that money talks when it comes to college admissions.

[Roadrunner]

I think the biggest edge is all the SAT prep and all the private tutoring the parents provide. 

Number of out of state spots is fixed for UCs. So they might be recruiting some wealthy from out of state, but the biggest problem is poor simply don’t have resources and know how to compete with Silicon Valley parents who are showering significant $$$$ of their children and given their educational attainments and connections, creating a wealth of opportunities that a kid from a place like Turlock or Bakersfield doesn’t have. 

[Mom0012]

14 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I think the biggest edge is all the SAT prep and all the private tutoring the parents provide. 

Number of out of state spots is fixed for UCs. So they might be recruiting some wealthy from out of state, but the biggest problem is poor simply don’t have resources and know how to compete with Silicon Valley parents who are showering significant $$$$ of their children and given their educational attainments and connections, creating a wealth of opportunities that a kid from a place like Turlock or Bakersfield doesn’t have. 

II’m honestly starting to wonder more and more how much they even care about the scores? I think their number one priority is which students are full pay.

[Roadrunner]

19 minutes ago, Mom0012 said:

II’m honestly starting to wonder more and more how much they even care about the scores? I think their number one priority is which students are full pay.

 

UCs care about scores. My understanding is only few of them have holistic admissions while the rest are a numbers game. A local fancy private school cousilor told me they have always problems placing kids into UCs because GPAs are lower in their school (rigor) while Ps kids have an easier time with admissions.

UCB and UCLA are holistic, so they operate differently.

[Caraway]

I think the UC system ceased being about California students long ago. 

[madteaparty]

2 hours ago, Mom0012 said:

II’m honestly starting to wonder more and more how much they even care about the scores? I think their number one priority is which students are full pay.

I believe there’s enough students that they don’t have to pick between the two. This is not an either/or situation for CA from what I hear on the opposite coast. 

[Mom0012]

56 minutes ago, madteaparty said:

I believe there’s enough students that they don’t have to pick between the two. This is not an either/or situation for CA from what I hear on the opposite coast. 

Yes, we’ll that’s what I’m thinking.  Wealthy students who also have high test scores, but, as with any business, the money comes first.  It’s just taken me a long time to realize that with all the talk about merit.

[SoCal_Bear]

As much as people like to complain about UC OOS admissions, it is capped at 18%. Other state flagships are far higher. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2018/03/29/flagships-go-national-at-u-michigan-nearly-half-of-students-now-from-out-of-state/

[Reefgazer]

I am OK with wealthy students being courted to some degree because their full-pay tuition provides money for less financially-abled students to receive the financial aid.

[SoCal_Bear]

30 minutes ago, Reefgazer said:

I am OK with wealthy students being courted to some degree because their full-pay tuition provides money for less financially-abled students to receive the financial aid.

Agreed. Someone has to help foot the bill. In some way, it functions like a tax on education for families with means. I know that my son will be full pay. However, my dad put himself through school and was a immigrant who grew up in a village in the middle of nowhere with no electricity or running water and came to the US at 15. He was able to learn English, get into UCD and earn a B.S. and a M.S. in Engineering. My family benefited from that opportunity.

I think these top tier schools are considering merit, but it is obvious the students they are trying to attract are merit PLUS full pay. You can't populate a school with all qualified students who need full rides. The economics of sustaining that university would never work. 

UC has specific target percentages for populating their admits with students who are first generation and students who are of lower economic status. UC also prioritizes admits from under represented schools in California as well. They look at the student relative to their peers from the same school.

Edited to add: 42% UC's undergrads are first generation college students. This compared with 27% average at other selective public unis and 18% at selective privates. That's something to be commended.

Edited March 30, 2019 by calbear

[TarynB]

I don't pretend to know anything about the ailings of California's education system or the UC system, but I live smack-dab in the middle of the Midwest, and when DS toured our state flagship public univ, we were told that students from California make up the largest "out of state" group in the undergrad student body. They didn't give the specific percentage, but said it was well into the double digits. I thought that was surprising considering how far we are from CA. 

[daijobu]

16 hours ago, calbear said:

As much as people like to complain about UC OOS admissions, it is capped at 18%. Other state flagships are far higher. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2018/03/29/flagships-go-national-at-u-michigan-nearly-half-of-students-now-from-out-of-state/

 

This is true and in response to chronic underfunding of public universities.  They make up for it by admitting full pay OOS students.  These students displace California students who end up as OOS students at other state flagships.  UCs also cope by raising enrollment, allowing them to admit more Californians, but also impacting courses and majors.  This year UCSC admitted so many freshman, they couldn't house them all and asked faculty to host them.  

Edited March 30, 2019 by daijobu

[Sebastian (a lady)]

22 hours ago, TarynB said:

I don't pretend to know anything about the ailings of California's education system or the UC system, but I live smack-dab in the middle of the Midwest, and when DS toured our state flagship public univ, we were told that students from California make up the largest "out of state" group in the undergrad student body. They didn't give the specific percentage, but said it was well into the double digits. I thought that was surprising considering how far we are from CA. 

California is a large and high population state.  It has a lot of high school seniors every year.  UC admissions can be tough.  The schools have many restricted majors (competitive to declare because of high demand) and courses can be tough to get into.