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Jess4879

By Jess4879,
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Pawz4me

Pawz4me

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The first step I'd recommend is a thorough vet check. What exactly happened when the vet "looked" at her last  month? Was it a regular puppy check? Did the vet know the specifics of her behavior that you're concerned about, and was checking her in relation to those? If not -- vet check. This really could be anything from something wrong with her physical health to rage syndrome to some sort of weird dog adolescence reaction that will pass given some time and training.

At what age was she taken from her mom and litter mates? I kind of doubt that's an issue since her issues are just showing up now, and so strongly. But I could be wrong about that.

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Jess4879

Jess4879

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On 3/23/2019 at 11:59 AM, Pawz4me said:

The first step I'd recommend is a thorough vet check. What exactly happened when the vet "looked" at her last  month? Was it a regular puppy check? Did the vet know the specifics of her behavior that you're concerned about, and was checking her in relation to those? If not -- vet check. This really could be anything from something wrong with her physical health to rage syndrome to some sort of weird dog adolescence reaction that will pass given some time and training.

At what age was she taken from her mom and litter mates? I kind of doubt that's an issue since her issues are just showing up now, and so strongly. But I could be wrong about that.

.

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Jess4879

Jess4879

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On 3/23/2019 at 12:12 PM, gardenmom5 said:

I'd also suggest a vet check - specifically for looking for an injury.  her reaction to the livestock makes me think something happened there of which you're not aware.

.

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Pawz4me

Pawz4me

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25 minutes ago, Jess4879 said:

The vet came to our farm (for livestock) and does vaccinations and checks on our dogs.  We told the vet about the concerns then and were given advice to try, but since then, new ones have come up. It's honestly exhausting because I feel like every time we fix one issue, another crops up.  

I’d have another visit and tell him the bad behaviors are escalating. At a minimum I’d want some basic bloodwork done, check spine, joints, mouth for signs of pain, vision/hearing, etc. Also, if this is primarily a livestock vet then I’d consider seeing one who specializes in dogs and cats. And perhaps consider getting a referral to a veterinary behaviorist if the vet can’t find anything physically wrong. 

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Jess4879

Jess4879

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On 3/23/2019 at 12:46 PM, Pawz4me said:

I’d have another visit and tell him the bad behaviors are escalating. At a minimum I’d want some basic bloodwork done, check spine, joints, mouth for signs of pain, vision/hearing, etc. Also, if this is primarily a livestock vet then I’d consider seeing one who specializes in dogs and cats. And perhaps consider getting a referral to a veterinary behaviorist if the vet can’t find anything physically wrong. 

.

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Pen

Pen

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I tried to link an article, but failed.  

Look at Wholedog journal and other such places about sudden bad behavior around 6 to 7 months old and how to deal with it if it’s a growing up phase, rather than a health issue.   Use google.  It’s a common age for a flare up of doggy behavior problems, like teenage kids...

 

But it could be a physical health problem. 

.  

I think maybe it would help to get your dog in for her spay with the needed sedation at same time and getting good blood panels and maybe a brain scan while sedated.   

A lot of things could be problem.  I had a dog who was acting aggressive from entropion (eyelids turned in so he was constantly stressed by his lashes scratching his eyes), for example.

Dietary issues could perhaps also contribute. ... 

NOW vitamins has a valerian passionflower supplement that can help if anxiety is at base of this.

A good dog trainer might be able help.  There may be someone even though you are rural... keep asking people you know if they know anyone.  

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MercyA

MercyA

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Our first dog, a Chihuahua-mix, developed similar problems at about a year and a half old. Not to discourage you, but we tried everything (trainers, behaviorists, meds, etc.) and finally had our dog undergo disarming surgery as the only feasible and humane alternative to euthanasia.  All of his teeth except his back molars were removed by a veterinary dentist. Now, this is obviously a last resort and there are many things you can and should try first, starting with more health testing.

I mention this only because it is a rarely considered option and it did save our dog's life. He frankly had a screw loose and we were never going to be able to trust him not to injure people. He was a pill to the end but we loved him.

Hoping and wishing the best for you and your dog.

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ktgrok

ktgrok

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She probably is in a "fear period" where they act nutty and scared of things. But..the aggression is not okay. It's one thing to be scared, anther to bite. A child's face is about the same height as a man's hand. What is a minor injury on the hand can be disfiguring on the face. 

The first thing is yes, vet check with lab work, checking all over for pain, checking hearing and vision. 

Then, I'd go to a bootcamp at home program. No free roaming. Dog earns every bite of food by doing obedience, going over and under obstacles (increases confidence), etc. Dog is in a kennel or tethered at all other times. 

Work on the commands place and heel. You can't correct fear, but you can correct a dog disobeying a known command and for some (not all) skitzoid dogs the focus on doing the command and you helps them get over and work through their fears. And having a firm routine and lots of structure can help reduce anxiety. And that food/treats should also be used during this training...so if dog is heeling past something scary you can correct for breaking heel, but also reward for staying in heel. 

For being possessive you need to teach an "out" command. But for now, don't let anyone try to touch/take things away from the dog. 

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Jess4879

Jess4879

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20 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

She probably is in a "fear period" where they act nutty and scared of things. But..the aggression is not okay. It's one thing to be scared, anther to bite. A child's face is about the same height as a man's hand. What is a minor injury on the hand can be disfiguring on the face. 

The first thing is yes, vet check with lab work, checking all over for pain, checking hearing and vision. 

Then, I'd go to a bootcamp at home program. No free roaming. Dog earns every bite of food by doing obedience, going over and under obstacles (increases confidence), etc. Dog is in a kennel or tethered at all other times. 

Work on the commands place and heel. You can't correct fear, but you can correct a dog disobeying a known command and for some (not all) skitzoid dogs the focus on doing the command and you helps them get over and work through their fears. And having a firm routine and lots of structure can help reduce anxiety. And that food/treats should also be used during this training...so if dog is heeling past something scary you can correct for breaking heel, but also reward for staying in heel. 

For being possessive you need to teach an "out" command. But for now, don't let anyone try to touch/take things away from the dog. 

.

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ktgrok

ktgrok

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5 minutes ago, Jess4879 said:

She is kenneled (in large kennel with dog run) and never off leash or tie.  Currently working on the heel command and will try the obstacles.  Thanks! 🙂  

How much time does she spend on her own in the kennel versus with people around?

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ktgrok

ktgrok

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5 minutes ago, Selkie said:

I would wonder if being tied up is affecting her negatively. Tying a dog up can be very stressful and frustrating for the dog and lead to aggressive behaviors.

Yes, a tie out can contribute to an increase in stress hormones, both from barrier frustration and from being exposed to stressors. 

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Pen

Pen

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6 to 14 month fear period a quote from above link:

 

“Reactivity levels rise during this stage causing the dog to act defensively, become protective and more territorial. Owners often report the fear seems to pop out of nowhere. Dogs appear fearful of novel stimuli or stimuli met before but that did not trigger significant reactions. As in the first fear period, it is best to avoid traumatic experiences during this time such as shipping dogs on a plane and any other overwhelming experience. Because at this stage the owner may be dealing with a dog barking and lunging and pulling on the leash, this fear period has a bigger impact, causing the owner to worry about the dog's behavior.

How to Make Things Better

  • Continue socializing as much as possible but without exposing your dog to overwhelming situations
  • Create positive associations through counter-conditioning
  • Build confidence through training and confidence building sports and exercises
  • Avoid traumatic experiences during this delicate phase.”

 

 

I’d be concerned that while you need to control your dog to not have a bite problem, that overall separation from people and extreme limitations will increase her fears and defensive aggression reaction...

 

ETA: tie out may be traumatic, isolation may be traumatic, and different hat than she’s used to, or perhaps any hat , may be traumatic...from pup’s POV.  She doesn’t understand what’s going on, why you’re stressed, why she’s isolated, why someone would suddenly develop a huge weird lump on his head. ... 
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Pen

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https://www.canisbonus.com/2018/06/08/newsflash-dogs-have-two-fear-periods/

 

I included more than one link because your description, while it could signal something really unusual being wrong, could also be very typical for this stage in dog development even if you haven’t run into it before.  Again, kind of like teenage people— not all go through a difficult stage, but many do.  

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Jess4879

Jess4879

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17 hours ago, Pen said:

6 to 14 month fear period a quote from above link:

 

“Reactivity levels rise during this stage causing the dog to act defensively, become protective and more territorial. Owners often report the fear seems to pop out of nowhere. Dogs appear fearful of novel stimuli or stimuli met before but that did not trigger significant reactions. As in the first fear period, it is best to avoid traumatic experiences during this time such as shipping dogs on a plane and any other overwhelming experience. Because at this stage the owner may be dealing with a dog barking and lunging and pulling on the leash, this fear period has a bigger impact, causing the owner to worry about the dog's behavior.

How to Make Things Better

  • Continue socializing as much as possible but without exposing your dog to overwhelming situations
  • Create positive associations through counter-conditioning
  • Build confidence through training and confidence building sports and exercises
  • Avoid traumatic experiences during this delicate phase.”

 

 

I’d be concerned that while you need to control your dog to not have a bite problem, that overall separation from people and extreme limitations will increase her fears and defensive aggression reaction...

 

 

.

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Pawz4me

Pawz4me

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27 minutes ago, Pen said:

http://www.pethealthnetwork.com/dog-health/dog-behavior/what-happened-my-well-mannered-puppy

 

#4 in that link is exactly why I advised seeing a vet and perhaps getting a referral to a vet behaviorists. A six month old puppy who is biting hard enough to draw blood (not accidentally during play), and growling and snapping at people warrants a serious response, IME. Those are red flags.

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ktgrok

ktgrok

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48 minutes ago, Jess4879 said:

We started tying her because of the behavior.  A friend suggested restricting all freedom, so that is what we have done.  It has helped in some ways, but not in others.  She can't be loose at this point because she will chase the livestock.

Edited to clarify - when she came home we kenneled her when we weren't with her and slowly expanded her freedoms.  She did well with come, sit, down and loved to be with us.  Then she'd pick and choose - so one day she'd listen, another she wouldn't.  Everyone said, oh, she's just a puppy and so we just kept working with her. For example, she went through a phase where a car could come in and out of the yard, but if I went to get into a car, she'd growl and bark. So we spent some time getting her more comfortable with vehicles and she would go with hubby daily for a short ride.  One day he wore a different coat and she wouldn't go anywhere near him.  She is not like any other dog I have ever encountered.  It's seriously just one thing after another.  We seem to "fix" one issue and another presents itself and while we are working on that, the old one comes back too.  

 

8 minutes ago, Jess4879 said:

Thank you!  It does sound like she's right at the age to be going through a fear stage and I am hopeful that is what the issue is.  We do spend immense amounts of time with her, but she is not and will never be an inside dog.  At this point, we have no choice but to keep her tied. If she is loose she will chase the livestock and especially with it being calving season, it's unsafe for all concerned.  Our mama cows do not appreciate having their babies riled.   

She'd be better off in the run than tied. Tying out tends to really frustrate dogs, which ramps up stress hormones, which is the opposite of what you want. Better in the run, preferably with some kind of visual barrier on the side nearest the cows. 

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Pen

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Another problem is that dogs are generally pack animals.  Even outdoor dogs have tended typically to have other dogs such as a kennel of foxhounds, or other animals, such as sheep for sheepdogs, livestock guards, border collies etc, to be with.  Some farm dogs seem to be friends with a horse...

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Selkie

Selkie

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11 minutes ago, Pen said:

Another problem is that dogs are generally pack animals.  Even outdoor dogs have tended typically to have other dogs such as a kennel of foxhounds, or other animals, such as sheep for sheepdogs, livestock guards, border collies etc, to be with.  Some farm dogs seem to be friends with a horse...

I agree with this...collies are highly intelligent and social and it is probably stressing her to be separated from her pack. In addition to consulting with a vet and a behaviorist, I would keep the time she is isolated to a minimum, stop tying her up, and make sure she is getting at least an hour of exercise every day.

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Pen

Pen

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9 minutes ago, Selkie said:

I agree with this...collies are highly intelligent and social and it is probably stressing her to be separated from her pack. In addition to consulting with a vet and a behaviorist, I would keep the time she is isolated to a minimum, stop tying her up, and make sure she is getting at least an hour of exercise every day.

 

Exercise being like running...not a sedate leash walk .  

An hour of good exercise each morning might help the whole rest of her day.  Especially if she could then be inside with her people.

 

“Behavioral Traits

Collies attach themselves to the people they love and do not like to be left alone for long periods of time. Companion animals can help, but the Collie prefers the company of people to other dogs. If lonely or bored, Collies will bark excessively and chew destructively.

Shyness is common in Collies and if not properly socialized, can lead to timidity and fearfulness of strangers. Early and frequent socialization is a must so that the dog understands new people and new situations are not to be feared. Positive reinforcement when a Collie is exhibiting confidence can also build their self esteem and keep timidity at bay.”

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Ausmumof3

Ausmumof3

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Border collie?  We have a border collie and he displays fear aggression toward strangers.  I would think it was our fault except I know the other people who have the siblings and they all began displaying the same traits around six months.  I also know the home he came from and they are very successful with dogs generally but have avoided breeding with the father again because of the issue.

we mostly keep him away from people he doesn’t know (possible because he has a farm and a secured yard).  We’ve worked on making sure he’s reliable with recall and try to desensitise him somewhat to strangers.  It’s a balance because we actually do want him to bark to alert us if someone’s here but just to respect that once we’ve accepted them in they are meant to be there.

if all else fails there is anti anxiety medicine available.  We only use it for taking him to the vet but he’s like a different dog when he has it.  He also becomes worse when he doesn’t have plenty of stimulation.  These dogs need a tonne of exercise!

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Pen

Pen

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Out of every 24 hours, how many are spent in close contact with an important human in the dogs life?

How much interaction, time per 24 hours in each day, does pup spend close to each person she has nipped?

 I ‘m trying to get a sense of whether this is a dog who is biting close to her, bonded, loved family members, or whether she is biting people who from dog perspective are near strangers. Not totally unknown, but also not in close contact enough to be her “pack”. 

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Pen

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Also does pup have positive or negative reactions to things that induced bites in general?

Is she normally very happy about collars, for example, or are they negative being mainly associated with being tied out?

Does she normally like having a toy taken for a wonderful game of fetch? Or is a toy a thing she has on her own without positive associations of it being taken as part of fun game?

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Pen

Pen

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And has her neck / spine, been checked by veterinarian for injury — particularly related to being on collar plus leash or collar plus tie out?

injuties to neck can happen very easily 

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Lizzie in Ma

Lizzie in Ma

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My heart went out to you on this one.  We got a Catahoula mix to be our youngest's therapy dog.  We socialized like crazy, we trained, we worked with him every single day.  We had him on anxiety meds.  He had specialized training and was 100% on every command with voice or gesture.  He was a blessing to us and our daughter in every way.  We adored him more than I can ever tell you. He was sweet and funny and loving and the perfect therapy dog.

Around 5 months, he started to react to people differently.  Sometimes strangers, sometimes people he knew and liked.  His hackles would go up and he would lunge at them.  We actually had to get rid of the in home therapist, because he totally hated her and then Jenna didn't trust her because of it.  We began to put him in PLACE any time someone other than family would come in and usually he was fine after a bit.  But the behavior continued.  We took him to our vet several times for complete work ups, we spoke with his trainer, we did everything right.  Everything. And yet he still had some scary behaviors and there were some near misses.

Then one morning, my husband bent down to pat him, as all of us did a million times a day, and the dog lost it and savaged his arm.  Our default had always been, well, he'd never hurt one of us.  But he did, badly.  And my prayer was thank God it wasn't Jenna.

We called everyone.  the vet, the trainer, the place we adopted him from.  Everyone assured us that we had done every single thing right.  The lady at the rescue said that every once in awhile a puppy is born who isn't quite right and you don't generally know it until it's too late.  We agonized over what to do.

We ended up raising $5,000, (fully half was given by our precious oldest daughter from her wedding money) and we took him to Spirit Animal Sanctuary in New York where he will live out his life.  We couldn't have him put down. it would have sent youngest back to inpatient.  And frankly, none of us are over it yet and we still wonder if somehow we could have kept him.  Jenna and I literally cried ourselves to sleep for months. We all felt he couldn't go to anywhere that would have the goal of adopting him out.  We know he is happy there, we get regular updates but it is really hard.

It was the worst thing that has ever happened to me in my entire dog owning life and it almost sent Jenna back into inpatient.  That dog was the only thing she lived for, her only reason, for many months.  He saved her life.

I am writing to share this because sometimes, apparently, you can do everything right and it still doesn't work out.  And I am sorry and I hope you are able to figure it out.

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Pawz4me

Pawz4me

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27 minutes ago, Lizzie in Ma said:

My heart went out to you on this one.  We got a Catahoula mix to be our youngest's therapy dog.  We socialized like crazy, we trained, we worked with him every single day.  We had him on anxiety meds.  He had specialized training and was 100% on every command with voice or gesture.  He was a blessing to us and our daughter in every way.  We adored him more than I can ever tell you. He was sweet and funny and loving and the perfect therapy dog.

Around 5 months, he started to react to people differently.  Sometimes strangers, sometimes people he knew and liked.  His hackles would go up and he would lunge at them.  We actually had to get rid of the in home therapist, because he totally hated her and then Jenna didn't trust her because of it.  We began to put him in PLACE any time someone other than family would come in and usually he was fine after a bit.  But the behavior continued.  We took him to our vet several times for complete work ups, we spoke with his trainer, we did everything right.  Everything. And yet he still had some scary behaviors and there were some near misses.

Then one morning, my husband bent down to pat him, as all of us did a million times a day, and the dog lost it and savaged his arm.  Our default had always been, well, he'd never hurt one of us.  But he did, badly.  And my prayer was thank God it wasn't Jenna.

We called everyone.  the vet, the trainer, the place we adopted him from.  Everyone assured us that we had done every single thing right.  The lady at the rescue said that every once in awhile a puppy is born who isn't quite right and you don't generally know it until it's too late.  We agonized over what to do.

We ended up raising $5,000, (fully half was given by our precious oldest daughter from her wedding money) and we took him to Spirit Animal Sanctuary in New York where he will live out his life.  We couldn't have him put down. it would have sent youngest back to inpatient.  And frankly, none of us are over it yet and we still wonder if somehow we could have kept him.  Jenna and I literally cried ourselves to sleep for months. We all felt he couldn't go to anywhere that would have the goal of adopting him out.  We know he is happy there, we get regular updates but it is really hard.

It was the worst thing that has ever happened to me in my entire dog owning life and it almost sent Jenna back into inpatient.  That dog was the only thing she lived for, her only reason, for many months.  He saved her life.

I am writing to share this because sometimes, apparently, you can do everything right and it still doesn't work out.  And I am sorry and I hope you are able to figure it out.

IMO your rescue lady was absolutely right. It's not common, but it happens. And it's why I absolutely hate the saying "There are no bad dogs, only bad owners."There ARE dogs who have very serious mental health/behavioral issues that have absolutely nothing to do with how they're raised or trained. Anyone who thinks otherwise has likely simply not had enough dog experience to know better.

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Jess4879

Jess4879

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16 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

 

She'd be better off in the run than tied. Tying out tends to really frustrate dogs, which ramps up stress hormones, which is the opposite of what you want. Better in the run, preferably with some kind of visual barrier on the side nearest the cows. 

.

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Jess4879

Jess4879

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14 hours ago, Pen said:

Out of every 24 hours, how many are spent in close contact with an important human in the dogs life?

How much interaction, time per 24 hours in each day, does pup spend close to each person she has nipped?

 I ‘m trying to get a sense of whether this is a dog who is biting close to her, bonded, loved family members, or whether she is biting people who from dog perspective are near strangers. Not totally unknown, but also not in close contact enough to be her “pack”. 

.

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Jess4879

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13 hours ago, Pen said:

Also does pup have positive or negative reactions to things that induced bites in general?

Is she normally very happy about collars, for example, or are they negative being mainly associated with being tied out?

Does she normally like having a toy taken for a wonderful game of fetch? Or is a toy a thing she has on her own without positive associations of it being taken as part of fun game?

.

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Jess4879

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7 hours ago, Lizzie in Ma said:

My heart went out to you on this one.  We got a Catahoula mix to be our youngest's therapy dog.  We socialized like crazy, we trained, we worked with him every single day.  We had him on anxiety meds.  He had specialized training and was 100% on every command with voice or gesture.  He was a blessing to us and our daughter in every way.  We adored him more than I can ever tell you. He was sweet and funny and loving and the perfect therapy dog.

Around 5 months, he started to react to people differently.  Sometimes strangers, sometimes people he knew and liked.  His hackles would go up and he would lunge at them.  We actually had to get rid of the in home therapist, because he totally hated her and then Jenna didn't trust her because of it.  We began to put him in PLACE any time someone other than family would come in and usually he was fine after a bit.  But the behavior continued.  We took him to our vet several times for complete work ups, we spoke with his trainer, we did everything right.  Everything. And yet he still had some scary behaviors and there were some near misses.

Then one morning, my husband bent down to pat him, as all of us did a million times a day, and the dog lost it and savaged his arm.  Our default had always been, well, he'd never hurt one of us.  But he did, badly.  And my prayer was thank God it wasn't Jenna.

We called everyone.  the vet, the trainer, the place we adopted him from.  Everyone assured us that we had done every single thing right.  The lady at the rescue said that every once in awhile a puppy is born who isn't quite right and you don't generally know it until it's too late.  We agonized over what to do.

We ended up raising $5,000, (fully half was given by our precious oldest daughter from her wedding money) and we took him to Spirit Animal Sanctuary in New York where he will live out his life.  We couldn't have him put down. it would have sent youngest back to inpatient.  And frankly, none of us are over it yet and we still wonder if somehow we could have kept him.  Jenna and I literally cried ourselves to sleep for months. We all felt he couldn't go to anywhere that would have the goal of adopting him out.  We know he is happy there, we get regular updates but it is really hard.

It was the worst thing that has ever happened to me in my entire dog owning life and it almost sent Jenna back into inpatient.  That dog was the only thing she lived for, her only reason, for many months.  He saved her life.

I am writing to share this because sometimes, apparently, you can do everything right and it still doesn't work out.  And I am sorry and I hope you are able to figure it out.

.

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38 minutes ago, Jess4879 said:

Every morning she comes out for a walk (slower pace, pretty chill time) for approx a half hour and then she has breakfast.  The morning routine is either my husband, myself or my oldest daughter.  Approx 30 mins later we are with her again to do a potty run/play time before the kids start school.  This will be a high-energy run time - throwing the ball (we now have 2, so no one is taking one away and it seems to have helped).  This will be for about an hour, sometimes only half, depending on how our morning is going.  My older two take her out again to play before lunch for about a half hour.  This is another high-energy time.  After lunch she has a long stretch out for a good hour, this isn't always high energy.  Often times kids take her through the trees, over logs, etc.  She enjoys checking out new places just not new living things.  She's out again after school/snack around 3:30pm and again in the evening.  We spend a lot of times outdoors and if we're out, she's with us.  My husband works, so she sees him less, but he does walk/play when he's home and has also done truck rides, etc and he does her last walk of the evening, around 8pm.  

 

28 minutes ago, Jess4879 said:

The aggression has always come on unexpectedly.  We got her a collar before we brought her home.  We didn't leave it on as a pup, but rather put it on and took it off each time to get her used to it.  She never minded, until the one day she bit my husband.  Which is why he thought maybe he'd pinched her or something, though she didn't yelp.  We checked it to make sure it wasn't tight etc.  After that she went through a spell where she'd attempt to nip every time we took a color on or off.  The collar isn't the only incident like this - she's gone through phases where she's suddenly decided you can't touch her back legs, so we desensitized that.  It's not just physical contact either, sometimes it will be an object - like her ball.  One day she was fine with you taking it and then the next she isn't.  Then she'll be ok...then she won't.  We don't take it away for anything other than play.  We'd had her about 2 months and had been working on the come command with food rewards - I had knelt down and said "come" and she backed up, hunched down and barked, growled and snapped at me.  She was in a wide open space and everyone said it was fine, she was just a pup.  But this is NOT typical behavior, which is why I'm concerned. 

 

I am conflicted as between part of me thinking 1) she is in fear stage

and 2) is also wrong type of breed to be alone so much...  (sort of like part of me almost immediately thought about the Catahoula related post, “Catahoula as  therapy dog is highly unlikely to work” no matter how great it seemed as pup because traits Catahoulas were long bred for and would be expected to show up even in a stable Catahoula, don’t fit with traits needed for Therapy dog.  At same time noticing that the Catahoula was on anxiety meds suggests something wrong earlier than the noticed aggression and bad biting )

Versus 

at same time a sense of red flags... that her behavior is more than just fear stage and wrong breed for the lifestyle you want her to lead...

 

I think you need at least a really thorough vet check very possibly including brain,  neck, throat areas, plus if she isn’t found to have tumor or neck/throat injury that explains the problems, an experienced trainer (toward the behaviorist side)

and that may not be possible where you are, but I am doubtful you will successfully get through this without in person experienced help

Or to try to get her into a different home (maybe contact Collie rescue groups) that might be better suited and much better able to handle her—probably no livestock, no children; with an active, very dog experienced adult who would be able to have her live inside...

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Post script— a little longer and my thought is, even if she had a professional trainer/behaviorist , it isn’t a placement that will work.

She won’t be able to be an indoor dog with your family .  That actually really should have been determined at start that Collies are one of many breeds that needs not to be an outside away from family dog and shouldn’t have been chosen in first place.  Even if she were a sound collie, which she may not be.

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