irked by the "Dad is not the babysitter" posts

[Tanaqui]

That's good news! Sounds like he's willing to change at least a little, so there's room for progress.

[bolt.]

It sounds like you are doing a great job of that tactful approach. You’re nailing both clarity and kindness.

[EmseB]

So am I the only person who can't imagine an adult in a household saying no to a dinner request? How does this play out? Can I please have more green beans, Dad? And....dad refuses to scoop them out? That's not even marriage dynamics; it's like basic etiquette!

Anyway, glad to hear of the baby steps, OP!

[Tanaqui]

It sounded more like "Can you go into the kitchen and get me a cup of water" which, at my kids' ages, is at least half the time met with "No, get it yourself".

[EmseB]

Ah, I was picturing a kid who wasn't capable of the self-serve thing. It's one thing to tell a kid they can serve themselves, but it sounded like he was being asked, refusing, and deflecting the task to the OP.

I say, "Go ask your dad," for certain stuff, but at the dinner table? When I'm right there anyway? So weird (to me).

[Tanaqui]

I don't know how old the OP's kids are, but at any rate, if I have to get up and get something I'll only do it if I'm the best person for that job. Which I might not be! If I'm still eating and some other capable adult is done, they should get the cup of water if the kid can't.

[EmseB]

3 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

I don't know how old the OP's kids are, but at any rate, if I have to get up and get something I'll only do it if I'm the best person for that job. Which I might not be! If I'm still eating and some other capable adult is done, they should get the cup of water if the kid can't.

Right. Sorry I'm not being clear in what I was trying to say. She said he was done eating and she was not, but he was refusing to help with _insert basic dinner task at a family meal_. That was my point. I couldn't imagine a grown person saying no to something like that. It seems like it would just be so awkward.

[Tanaqui]

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I don't get it either, but I suppose I do get irritable when people ask me to do things when I'm doing other things, even if what I'm doing is trivial and what they want is simple.

[shawthorne44]

17 hours ago, omishev said:

Thank you, everyone, for your thoughts. I have been working on being more firm and not taking any crap along with politely requesting that certain things change and have seen progress. Yesterday I said, "I am going running with my sister tomorrow, do you want me to go right after church or later in the afternoon?" and all went well.

When he has said "no" to simple, reasonable requests (like getting a kid something at dinner) when he is already done eating and I have barely made a dent, I have quietly said, "Yes, you can. You are done eating and I am not." 

He sleeps in both days on the weekend (not sure how that got started, he doesn't work early/late hours) and he has been grumpy with us when he gets up. Yesterday I called him out on it and asked him to come out saying "thank you" for letting him sleep in. Lo and behold, today he did thank me and the day got off to a much better start! 

One idea.   My mother has this annoying habit of phrasing demands as requests.  She think that it is nicer that way.   But it feels manipulative.   But, then she gets all pissy when you say No.   I didn't realize that until I was a young adult.  Both dad and I were aggravated by that.  It wasn't until I said "No" to a request/demand and Dad backed me up that she changed.   
One thing I try to do is to not ask a question unless I am OK with any answer (or I truly NEED to know)   So, if No isn't an option, then it is phrased as "Please do XYZ."   If No is an option, then it is phrased as "Would you do XYZ?"   
 

[Lady Florida.]

2 hours ago, shawthorne44 said:

One idea.   My mother has this annoying habit of phrasing demands as requests.  She think that it is nicer that way.   But it feels manipulative.   But, then she gets all pissy when you say No.   I didn't realize that until I was a young adult.  Both dad and I were aggravated by that.  It wasn't until I said "No" to a request/demand and Dad backed me up that she changed.   
One thing I try to do is to not ask a question unless I am OK with any answer (or I truly NEED to know)   So, if No isn't an option, then it is phrased as "Please do XYZ."   If No is an option, then it is phrased as "Would you do XYZ?"   
 

My mother was like that when asking for an opinion. She'd say "tell me if you thing I was wrong" then go on to recount a situation and how she reacted/responded. She really wanted you to validate her and tell her she said or did the right thing but she phrased it like she was asking for your opinion. When dh and I were dating I forgot to warn him about this and we were at her house when she 'asked' our opinion on something. He didn't flat out say she was wrong. He phrased it nicely by saying "well you probably should have done such and such instead". She was shocked - SHOCKED - that he gave her his opinion when she asked for it. They always got along well but she never asked for his opinion again. 

Like you though, I learned from her what not to do. I don't ask for someone's opinion if I'm not willing to hear it.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Lady Florida.

[Farrar]

I'm catching up on reading this. I'm struck that it can be really hard to strike a balance between understanding that patterns in relationships can absolutely change and improve, but at the same time acknowledging that sometimes people have tried and know it genuinely can't change and we shouldn't judge anyone who can't get their relationship to improve in certain ways.

I'm glad the OP has been able to make some changes and I hope they hold.

[EmseB]

12 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I don't get it either, but I suppose I do get irritable when people ask me to do things when I'm doing other things, even if what I'm doing is trivial and what they want is simple.

Since I have had four toddlers I would have spent a lot of my time being irritable by that criteria! Not that the occasional sigh does not escape from time to time, lol.

[Tanaqui]

LOL! That's actually exactly why I taught my kids to get their own water by the age of two years. I got a lot of stares when out in public because I expected them to do things like feed themselves their snacks, put on/take off their own smocks at the art center at the museum, get their own cups of water and scrape their own plates, things like that. I talk a good talk about self-sufficiency, but if we're going to be honest here, it was 50% laziness/lack of a desire to get up from my book. ("How do you find time to read!?" "Well, I don't follow my child around when she's in the sandbox, for a start....") Same reason I "let" them travel alone. ("Here's the directions to the thing you're going to, have fun and call me when you get there! Oh, you got lost? Are you there now? Great, now you, uh, learned that, um, getting lost is no big deal! It was a learning experience! Just as I planned! Gonna hang up, I'm at a really good part!")

[omishev]

13 hours ago, EmseB said:

Right. Sorry I'm not being clear in what I was trying to say. She said he was done eating and she was not, but he was refusing to help with _insert basic dinner task at a family meal_. That was my point. I couldn't imagine a grown person saying no to something like that. It seems like it would just be so awkward.

Oh it is! He eats super fast and I am naturally a slow eater but it is even worse when I am also feeding babies or cutting food for toddlers and running errands to the kitchen. I ask him to do all the normal parent things when we have company because I know he won't say no in front of them! He honestly is not trying to be mean, it is just laziness. 

[omishev]

14 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

I don't know how old the OP's kids are, but at any rate, if I have to get up and get something I'll only do it if I'm the best person for that job. Which I might not be! If I'm still eating and some other capable adult is done, they should get the cup of water if the kid can't.

They are 2, 5 and 7. At this point the older two should be able to do everything themselves. However, DH does not want the kids to get hurt or break anything or make a mess ie he doesn't want them doing anything themselves but he doesn't want to be the one to help them. 

And yes, any reasonable adult would look at the situation and see this poor mother has barely touched her food and offer to get it. 

[omishev]

22 hours ago, Lady Florida. said:

This is good news and a great start. It may have seemed like we were all jumping on you telling you not to take it, but I think we were all outraged for you. I hope you continue to make progress and reach a point where you both get the time you need and he stops taking you and all you do for granted.

Here's a follow up... last night he wanted me to sit down with him and watch a show after the kids went to bed. I told him I still had to do the dishes and make lunches (including his). He was not happy about that and said something along the lines of, "why do you have to do that at night? why can't you get it done during the day?" I very nicely said if he helped me I could be done faster. No go. When all was said and done I brought up the subject in an apologetic way, "I want to be able to spend more time with you at night. I do as much as I can during the day, I don't want to have all this to do at night. I feel like you think I don't care about spending time with you and I purposely save my work for the night. That is not the case. I do want to spend time with you." At the end he understood but still has no intentions of helping. So... was this a successful conversation?? Not sure!

[freesia]

34 minutes ago, omishev said:

They are 2, 5 and 7. At this point the older two should be able to do everything themselves. However, DH does not want the kids to get hurt or break anything or make a mess ie he doesn't want them doing anything themselves but he doesn't want to be the one to help them. 

And yes, any reasonable adult would look at the situation and see this poor mother has barely touched her food and offer to get it. 

Sorry, but IMO he doesn’t get to decree that. It’s absurd. Teach them to do for themselves and if he doesn’t want them to he gets up and does it. 

I would also stop making his lunch. People who can, do. One person doesn’t get off work at 6, and the other keeps going. 

[bolt.]

I’m not sure why you were apologetic, unless it was just to be extra tactful?

Its the plain truth that enough chores exist that some of them need to be done after supper. It’s weird that you not only do them all yourself (when both of you are available and cabable) but also apologize for doing it.

Its more logical to say, “Since there are chores to be done, we can’t watch tv right now. Would you rather do x or y tonight?” Try really hard to believe, “It’s not my work, it’s just work. Whoever is nearby should be pitching in.” — the more you believe it, the more you will be able to communicate it.

It’s not your fault that you both work all day in separate places, and yet work remains in the evening when you are both in the same place. It just needs to get done.

[Garga]

54 minutes ago, omishev said:

Here's a follow up... last night he wanted me to sit down with him and watch a show after the kids went to bed. I told him I still had to do the dishes and make lunches (including his). He was not happy about that and said something along the lines of, "why do you have to do that at night? why can't you get it done during the day?" I very nicely said if he helped me I could be done faster. No go. When all was said and done I brought up the subject in an apologetic way, "I want to be able to spend more time with you at night. I do as much as I can during the day, I don't want to have all this to do at night. I feel like you think I don't care about spending time with you and I purposely save my work for the night. That is not the case. I do want to spend time with you." At the end he understood but still has no intentions of helping. So... was this a successful conversation?? Not sure!

It was both successful and not.  

It was successful because you're learning how to start speaking your thoughts.  This is new for you and I don't think that we (or you) can expect you to go in guns blazing the very first day.  There's going to be a learning curve as you feel your way forward.  You're off to a good start.  Be aware that there will be pushback.  The more you try to change things, the more irritated he's going to get.  I think that might be hard for you to handle.  I think you're scared of his irritated and even angry reaction.  And I get that.  Angry men, even if there is no way they'd ever hurt you, can be almost unbearably intimidating for a lot of women.  Be prepared.

It was successful that you're setting the stage.  Your dh is going to start realizing that change is in the air if you keep expressing your actual feelings and thoughts.  Until now, you have not been honest with him.  Even though it's been easier emotionally to hide your true thoughts from him, it's not honest and it's not a way to forge a bond with your spouse.  It keeps the two of you separate from each other in intimacy.

It was successful in that you met his unfounded objection (you should do this in the day) and explained to him that he was believing a lie that you are being lazy in the day and avoiding time with him at night.

It was not successful as nothing physical changed.  He refused to help.  And you had to debase yourself by trying to mollify him, when he's the one shooting off unflattering and untrue objections and he's the one lazing around all evening and watching you work.

Bottom line: it was more successful than unsuccessful, so don't be discouraged.

-----------------------------

I'd keep going the way you are for the most part.  This is new.  Take it slowly for a few weeks.  Everything doesn't have to change this very second.  But you can continue as you have started:  expect him to help with the kids at dinner.  Start asking him for help in the evening to get the chores done faster.  

Basically, if you're doing a job/chore and you're feeling content about it, then continue to do it.  But if you're doing a job/chore and you feel that pang of resentment welling up toward him, then stop and consider why.  Something is off.  Think carefully about what's triggering the resentment and then start to address it.  Again, I'd go slow with asking for help at first.  If he never clues in that he should say yes to helping you after a few weeks, then it might be time for a heart to heart talk.  By then, you'll have a better feel for exactly what is triggering your resentment and what he could to do be a grownup and help.  

Edited March 25, 2019 by Garga

[EmseB]

The fact that he knows better and does better in front of company is more disrespectful (to me) than anything else you've said. Like it's not just habits and laziness and growing up a certain way. It's treating you a certain way in private and knowing it's not right so he does differently in public.

IOW, he could change his behaviour quite quickly and easily, but you have to wear kid gloves with him and take is slowly?

[Garga]

3 minutes ago, EmseB said:

The fact that he knows better and does better in front of company is more disrespectful (to me) than anything else you've said. Like it's not just habits and laziness and growing up a certain way. It's treating you a certain way in private and knowing it's not right so he does differently in public.

IOW, he could change his behaviour quite quickly and easily, but you have to wear kid gloves with him and take is slowly?

I think she should take it slowly for her own sake and not his.  Unless the OP feels ready to battle, I think she needs time to get her nerve up.  Years of deferring to someone else can be hard to overcome in a single day.  Taking it slowly will help her to gain the confidence she needs for what might be a difficult confrontation.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Garga

[SanDiegoMom]

1 hour ago, omishev said:

They are 2, 5 and 7. At this point the older two should be able to do everything themselves. However, DH does not want the kids to get hurt or break anything or make a mess ie he doesn't want them doing anything themselves but he doesn't want to be the one to help them. 

And yes, any reasonable adult would look at the situation and see this poor mother has barely touched her food and offer to get it. 

If he doesn't want them to get hurt or break anything, then a corollary is that is why you couldn't do the dishes or make lunches during the day -- you were too busy making sure the kids didn't get hurt or break anything! Just my own thoughts on that...

I sometimes offer to make lunch for my husband but he never expects it.  And I don't have young kids at home!  If he wanted it every day he'd have to make it himself.

I will say I have done the majority of the childcare, he almost never stayed home with the kids (and he did actually call it babysitting when dd19 was 5 years old, so 14 years ago) and when he did stay home with her the place was a disaster.  But his job has almost ALWAYS been high stress or lots of travel (he's USMC) and even now that he's in an easier job, he's also in school and does basically two side hustles (teaches a night a week, rents out our trailer) so he's always busy and prioritizes time with the kids first, then his own studies, and housework last. Since sometimes he stays up til two studying and always studies on weekends, I don't have any resentment. I see how much he's working and it brings him joy. IF he came home every night at an early hour and just expected the rest of the night to be free, that would be a HUGE issues.

We did fight a lot more when the kids were young. I was stressed all the time from having such young kids. Now that they're older its SO much easier. 

[Ravin]

On 3/19/2019 at 6:27 PM, Farrar said:

This is reminding me of a night out with friends when my kids were little. Another friend with little kids (all beyond breastfeeding, which is different) was there and her dh called a million times because he could not figure out how to do anything. She was so frustrated. We all ended up discussing it. In the end, she basically decided that it takes two to tango. That she was enabling him by never making him parent without her right there and by being okay with being the "only" parent most of the time. She resolved to change it. And they did. A couple years later, we were all out again, and I remember her saying how much better it was, though their younger two were still really little.

I'm also the default parent and I'm okay with that, but it's different from being the only parent. The default parent is the one the kids look to by default, the one who is with them more, the one who is assumed to know. But the only parent is a default parent with a partner who does not do anything alone, who is the only one who can fix the problems, know the routines, etc. And I guess if someone wants to be the "only" parent in a two parent household and everyone is okay with that... then, okay? But I don't think that's a common decision, honestly.

 

The default parent in our household has nothing to do with the contemporary realities of how our household runs. Most notably, DH has been the one making dinner 95 percent of the time since I started law school when DS was 6 months old and DD was 7 years old. Yet if I am home, it is an invariable law of nature that I am the one they will ask "what's for dinner?" I almost always tell them, "You're asking the wrong person." 

I also will get complaints from DD when she wants to come home from school because she doesn't feel well...while I am at work a FOUR HOUR drive from her school. DH is a full time student and will go get her if the school calls him. Some of this is just ingrained habit on DD's part, from the years when she was small that I was the parent at home the most, and she was exclusively breastfed (would. not. take. a. bottle.) and would only nurse to sleep unless she was at the babysitter's house/day care center. She barely noticed she had more than one parent until she was three or so, and not because DH was purposefully uninvolved. I was the "default parent" for her and probably will be when she's 30! 

DS on the other hand has had 3 parents in the household more or less equally sharing responsibility for day to day running of things and looking after him, subject to work and school schedules, and does not have that level of ingrained insistence that I am the 'default parent" even though I took him everywhere I could, wore him a lot, and he also was exclusively breastfed and child-led weaned (he WOULD take a bottle of expressed milk, and good thing too because I went back to work when he was 6 weeks old, couldn't afford not to) and coslept with me (still does nights I'm home). Part of the difference may be the pattern established in infancy; part of it I think is ingrained temperament of the respective children. DD was attached to just me. DS was attached to me, DH, GF, DD, and home in general.

Even so, DH sharing in parenting tasks and staying home with him when she was little was NOT babysitting. Parents don't babysit their own kids. I agree with that.

[EmseB]

22 minutes ago, Garga said:

I think she should take it slowly for her own sake and not his.  Unless the OP feels ready to battle, I think she needs time to get her nerve up.  Years of deferring to someone else can be hard to overcome in a single day.  Taking it slowly will help her to gain the confidence she needs for what might be a difficult confrontation.

I can understand that. However, if she's framing it to herself that he's "not being mean, just being lazy" in the same paragraph where she's saying he's willing to do these things if he's trying not to look bad in front of company, then I think it's not so much working up confidence as it is seeing the problem for what it is (ie, that it *is* being mean and selfish).

[Garga]

7 minutes ago, EmseB said:

I can understand that. However, if she's framing it to herself that he's "not being mean, just being lazy" in the same paragraph where she's saying he's willing to do these things if he's trying not to look bad in front of company, then I think it's not so much working up confidence as it is seeing the problem for what it is (ie, that it *is* being mean and selfish).

That's a really good point. 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Garga

[HomeAgain]

28 minutes ago, SanDiegoMom in VA said:

 

I sometimes offer to make lunch for my husband but he never expects it.  And I don't have young kids at home!  If he wanted it every day he'd have to make it himself.

I will say I have done the majority of the childcare, he almost never stayed home with the kids (and he did actually call it babysitting when dd19 was 5 years old, so 14 years ago) and when he did stay home with her the place was a disaster.  But his job has almost ALWAYS been high stress or lots of travel (he's USMC) and even now that he's in an easier job, he's also in school and does basically two side hustles (teaches a night a week, rents out our trailer) so he's always busy and prioritizes time with the kids first, then his own studies, and housework last. Since sometimes he stays up til two studying and always studies on weekends, I don't have any resentment. I see how much he's working and it brings him joy. IF he came home every night at an early hour and just expected the rest of the night to be free, that would be a HUGE issues.

We did fight a lot more when the kids were young. I was stressed all the time from having such young kids. Now that they're older its SO much easier. 

Same here, but it doesn't work that way for all families.  For some, if the wife stops making lunch, the husband will eat out every single day.  Dh works at a remote site and can't leave for lunch, lol, so I will gladly package up leftovers for him and make sure that for his 12 hour shifts I make things that can go in the toaster oven instead of the microwave (he says it tastes better).  But he is the one who packs his lunch in the morning and pulls it all together.  OTOH, on his days off he gladly does all the cooking so I don't have to, which is a win for the both of us. 🙂

I wonder sometimes if it's just leftover habits from childhood.  Dh was the oldest and so doesn't mind pitching in with what needs to be done here.  I mean, when he was in his early twenties he was a jerk, but not now.  Course I probably was, too. LOL  Adulting was hard.  But for the most part it's just the way it is.  His mom needed help around the house and so he sure as heck learned that everyone needed to step up.
 

[Janeway]

2 hours ago, omishev said:

Here's a follow up... last night he wanted me to sit down with him and watch a show after the kids went to bed. I told him I still had to do the dishes and make lunches (including his). He was not happy about that and said something along the lines of, "why do you have to do that at night? why can't you get it done during the day?" I very nicely said if he helped me I could be done faster. No go. When all was said and done I brought up the subject in an apologetic way, "I want to be able to spend more time with you at night. I do as much as I can during the day, I don't want to have all this to do at night. I feel like you think I don't care about spending time with you and I purposely save my work for the night. That is not the case. I do want to spend time with you." At the end he understood but still has no intentions of helping. So... was this a successful conversation?? Not sure!

I think you should have let the dishes go. My husband only saw how much he needed to do to do his part when I stopped doing everything. The dishes did not have to be done at that second, they could wait. And if by waiting, the dishes were too dirty to make dinner the next day, then your husband could enjoy a simple dinner with you. You may need to be more assertive. Stuff like "hey honey, how about you read to Lucy while I read to Johnny" and "we all need to clear our dishes" and "while you clear, I will load the dish washer" and make sure you hand him a wet cloth to wash the table down with.  My husband used to do nothing at all. I have found that the best way to handle this is to give him something to do whenever I am doing something. So we are always working at the same time. My husband also used to complain about me cleaning and such when he was home but he never caught on to do his part.  Things never got better until I started to tell him exactly what needed to be done.

[Tanaqui]

Quote

They are 2, 5 and 7. At this point the older two should be able to do everything themselves. However, DH does not want the kids to get hurt or break anything or make a mess ie he doesn't want them doing anything themselves but he doesn't want to be the one to help them. 

 

Compromise. Invest in enameled metal plates and mugs (we can get them here at the supermarket) so nothing can break, insist that they do for themselves when Dad's not home, and when Dad is home say "They do it by themselves all the time, they can do it now."

Quote

Here's a follow up... last night he wanted me to sit down with him and watch a show after the kids went to bed. I told him I still had to do the dishes and make lunches (including his). He was not happy about that and said something along the lines of, "why do you have to do that at night? why can't you get it done during the day?" I very nicely said if he helped me I could be done faster. No go.

 

"Why can't you get it done during the day, DH?" When he says "I'm at work" you can respond, in all honesty, "So am I."

[Ravin]

On 3/20/2019 at 8:24 AM, TechWife said:

I may be misunderstanding attachment parenting, but wouldn't both parents be living an attachment parenting lifestyle? Or maybe she means she is into attachment parenting and her dh isn't, so she didn't want him to care for the baby because he didn't do it the same way she did?

 

In our case, it was, "I was into attachment parenting as a lifestyle and DH was content to leave the major baby-related decisions up to me as long as they were working for us and everyone's needs were met." And with DD, baby #1, I definitely had some, ahem, control issues in that area. DH was the more experienced--he co-parented his firstborn for the first year and a half of her life. He and his ex did things differently, I'm sure...but then one of the things his ex did differently was up and leave for another state with their DD when the kid was ~18 mo. and do everything she could to make sure he never saw her again, so...he was open to doing things differently.  

[Ravin]

56 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

 

Compromise. Invest in enameled metal plates and mugs (we can get them here at the supermarket) so nothing can break, insist that they do for themselves when Dad's not home, and when Dad is home say "They do it by themselves all the time, they can do it now."

 

"Why can't you get it done during the day, DH?" When he says "I'm at work" you can respond, in all honesty, "So am I."

 

It sounds like what he is saying is, "you should relax with me after dinner. Dishes can wait. Lunches can be made in the morning."

As far as getting things for the kids when you want to sit down and eat, it's okay to set boundaries for yourself. Meals are a good boundary. "I'm going to finish eating. Child can get it themselves. They are capable. If you disagree, you may do it for them. I will not." And keep eating. 

[Ravin]

Just now, Ravin said:

 

It sounds like what he is saying is, "you should relax with me after dinner. Dishes can wait. Lunches can be made in the morning."

As far as getting things for the kids when you want to sit down and eat, it's okay to set boundaries for yourself. Meals are a good boundary. "I'm going to finish eating. Child can get it themselves. They are capable. If you disagree, you may do it for them. I will not." And keep eating. 

Also, when it comes to making lunches...he's a grown man. Why doesn't he make his own? Other than requesting that there be some leftovers now and again, and asking that preferred staple items (such as plain yogurt) get on the shopping list, I do not expect my DH, who does most of the home cooking, to pack my lunches for work! 

[EMS83]

10 hours ago, Lady Florida. said:

My mother was like that when asking for an opinion. She'd say "tell me if you thing I was wrong" then go on to recount a situation and how she reacted/responded. She really wanted you to validate her and tell her she said or did the right thing but she phrased it like she was asking for your opinion. When dh and I were dating I forgot to warn him about this and we were at her house when she 'asked' our opinion on something. He didn't flat out say she was wrong. He phrased it nicely by saying "well you probably should have done such and such instead". She was shocked - SHOCKED - that he gave her his opinion when she asked for it. They always got along well but she never asked for his opinion again. 

Like you though, I learned from her what not to do. I don't ask for someone's opinion if I'm not willing to hear it.

What do you do when you make informative statements and it's taken as a request for an opinion?  Like, "I'm doing X and I feel Y about it."  Where Y is not a fuzzy feeling, but a natural one given X.

[marbel]

10 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

<snip>

But yeah, I pack DH's lunches, not because he willfully refuses, but because he just doesn't function that way.  

Similar here.  It's much easier for me to prep my husband's lunch than it is for him.  I'm just better at it, and it takes me way less time than it would take him.  

But this is also how a real partnership works. Each person does what they do best for the good of everyone else.   

I don't think the OP's problems with her husband would be resolved by her telling him he's a grown man and he can make his own lunch. 

Edited March 26, 2019 by marbel

[hshibley]

47 minutes ago, marbel said:

Similar here.  It's much easier for me to prep my husband's lunch than it is for him.  I'm just better at it, and it takes me way less time than it would take him.  

But this is also how a real partnership works. Each person does what they do best for the good of everyone else.   

I don't think the OP's problems with her husband would be resolved by her telling him he's a grown man and he can make his own lunch. 

I pack all lunches as well. It’s just more efficient to have one person make all work and school lunches as opposed to every man for themselves. 

 

[freesia]

No, it won’t solve the problem, but it would set some boundaries. He does not do anything toward the common after dinner family chores and, in fact, refuses.  If she is doing everything else, he should at least take care of his own chores.

i totally understand why some of you fix your dh’s lunch. It makes sense.  But her dh won’t even let her teach the kids to help her and says no to her when asked to do common chores.

op, for further perspective, my 5 and 7 year olds loaded and unloaded the dish washer. They can help, too. 

[marbel]

I think more than "setting boundaries" what OP and her husband need is a discussion on a good division of labor within the family. What can each person do to make the family life run more smoothly?  It sounds like that hasn't worked in the past.  But the OP suddenly saying "make your own lunch" is unlikely to do anything or save her any time. If her husband gets angry about it, he might slam around the kitchen making a mess, and probably  leaving it for her to clean up.  (Experienced this with husband  #1.)  So she'll essentially make more work for herself and build up resentment besides.   

It's a tough spot to be in.  

 

[Tanaqui]

OP, don't let us bully you too much. We're all sincerely concerned and upset on your behalf - but if you find it easier to move more slowly then I think, so long as your husband is sincerely willing to improve and making an honest effort in that direction, it's probably all right to assert yourself more at the pace you're comfortable with. It's very easy for us all to sit here and say that we'd be more forceful - and maybe we all would be! - but you've been doing this a long time and it's gonna be hard for you to make those changes too.

(Only you can tell if he's actually making an ongoing, consistent effort or if he's "trying" just sloppily and infrequently enough to get you to leave him alone. That's one risk of taking the slower approach, of course.)

Edited March 26, 2019 by Tanaqui

[omishev]

On 3/25/2019 at 10:48 PM, happysmileylady said:

I can tell you why my DH doesn't make his own.

 

A) he doesn't remember the night before.  He just simply doesn't.  He literally NEVER brought lunch to work before we met (he was 30 when we met.)  And the idea of making lunch the night before...just....nope.  

B) he's not a morning person and doesn't wake up in time to do it.  Inevitably if it's not ready for him to grab out of the fridge....he never has time to put it together.  No time to make a sandwich, or dig out leftovers or whatever.

C) if there no lunch for him to take, he will either not eat, which results in a grumpy crappy feeling person arriving home, OR, he eats out.  Both of those have a real effect on the family either in the impact to the budget or in the grumpy irritability of a person who hasn't eaten since the night before.  

Exactly! For the sake of his health and our budget I want him to bring a lunch from home. I already pack lunch for my 1 in school and prep veggies (sandwiches too if we will be out) for the rest of us so it isn't a huge deal to also do his. But that combined with cleaning up after dinner and doing the dishes takes a good 30 min. 

[omishev]

On 3/25/2019 at 5:03 PM, Janeway said:

I think you should have let the dishes go. My husband only saw how much he needed to do to do his part when I stopped doing everything. The dishes did not have to be done at that second, they could wait. And if by waiting, the dishes were too dirty to make dinner the next day, then your husband could enjoy a simple dinner with you. You may need to be more assertive. Stuff like "hey honey, how about you read to Lucy while I read to Johnny" and "we all need to clear our dishes" and "while you clear, I will load the dish washer" and make sure you hand him a wet cloth to wash the table down with.  My husband used to do nothing at all. I have found that the best way to handle this is to give him something to do whenever I am doing something. So we are always working at the same time. My husband also used to complain about me cleaning and such when he was home but he never caught on to do his part.  Things never got better until I started to tell him exactly what needed to be done.

Are you saying just let things build up until he realizes how much needs to be done to maintain the house? Haha I have considered this many times but never had the guts to do it. It bothers me more than it bothers him. We don't have a lot of counter space so it's hard to cook if I don't do the dishes every meal. And we have family and/or friends over at least once a week so ....? Even when I have a stomach bug the first thing I do when I am able to stand up is do the dishes. 

[Ausmumof3]

On 3/26/2019 at 5:27 AM, omishev said:

Here's a follow up... last night he wanted me to sit down with him and watch a show after the kids went to bed. I told him I still had to do the dishes and make lunches (including his). He was not happy about that and said something along the lines of, "why do you have to do that at night? why can't you get it done during the day?" I very nicely said if he helped me I could be done faster. No go. When all was said and done I brought up the subject in an apologetic way, "I want to be able to spend more time with you at night. I do as much as I can during the day, I don't want to have all this to do at night. I feel like you think I don't care about spending time with you and I purposely save my work for the night. That is not the case. I do want to spend time with you." At the end he understood but still has no intentions of helping. So... was this a successful conversation?? Not sure!

FWIW dh went through a phase of being like that.  I aligned my working hours with his for a while.  I started when he left for work and once he came home and stopped I also stopped.  I did the bare minimum required to keep the kids safe but certainly not packing his lunches etc.  I did slack off on brushing my older kids teeth for them which I regret but other than that it was a good way of dealing with it for the time.  

Alternatively I have a friend whose husband was like this and she filled out a time sheet for a week and handed it to him.  She’d been trained to do it for work so when he started complaining about stuff not getting done or assuming she had endless time on her hands to do whatever she used the tools she had.  He has actually turned into a mostly decent husband now.  

[Ausmumof3]

I also think, not to justify all these awful husbands 😆 but I know I had absolutely no idea how much work housekeeping and kids were prior to being responsible for them, so I think sometimes they need it really explicitly spelled out.  I had all sorts of unrealistic ideals about how homeschooling would look.