Menu
Jump to content

What's with the ads?

Arcadia

News: Christchurch mosque shooting sees armed police deployed and schools in lockdown (Update: semi-automatic and automatic weapons ban)

Recommended Posts

What makes NZ different from the US, is that we have a parliamentary system. What this means in NZ is that the ministers that are in the ruling coalition are required to vote as a block.  So once the 'government' (which is the ten-ish ministers with cabinet posts) make a decision as to how to handle this, the rest of the ministers in the ruling coalition must vote with them.  The ministers in the opposition obviously vote, but will always be out voted.  The point is, the government can make sweeping changes without having to compromise with the opposition party, and they don't have to corral votes like you do in the US. So, we will see a united front, and the government could easily and literally overnight: 

1) change the gun laws

2) change immigration rules to keep out extremists (we are an island)

3) block certain extremist internet sites (there is only 1 trunk line into NZ which can be controlled)

etc

What I will be watching is how the government handles this power.  The goal is obviously to stop this from happening again without the citizens of NZ losing their freedoms. Luckily, I have found that the current government seems to make decisions based on evidence, and it is a coalition of multiple parties so represents a variety of views.

 

Edited by lewelma
  • Like 14

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The givealittle site is down. So many of us want to contribute to the hurting families. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Katy said:

 

Why did the FBI and people who specialize in criminology categorize it that way?  I'm no expert but as an educated guess... because of the ways people process fear and make choices. The risk of someone you know flipping out and murdering you is much higher than a stranger murdering you, despite people being much more paralyzed by fear of the stranger. Gang violence can largely be avoided by avoiding gang territories. Because people need to know it is much more important to escape domestic violence with your children than it is to avoid schools, shopping malls, concerts or places of worship. Because people generally know if a coworker is unhinged before they go postal, and they need to know there is nothing wrong with expressing a concern that someone is unwell and needs help before they get so sick they make a huge mistake.

Of course you're much more likely to die of anything other than murder.  But it's murder by strangers that paralyzes people with fear and fear of crime that think tanks and lobbying groups use to push for political changes on both sides.  Either you're afraid of anyone having a weapon or you're afraid to not have a weapon because "The bad guys have them."  Falsely inflating the types of crimes that people have NO control over is only done for the purposes of fear mongering click bait (money) and political propaganda (power). 

I hear it from both sides and I'm SO SICK of it. People don't share misleading information for no reason. I honestly don't know what the answer to weapons is. Like many hard problems it is complicated and there is no easy solution.  But I can guarantee you that people who are manipulating the facts are hiding an agenda, and the fears they stir up give extremists a platform. I don't trust extremists on either side. I trust the people in the middle who are dedicated to reason and using the truth so much more.

 

IJS. The risks of stranger mass-shootings to which you refer HAVE gone up according to the FBIs own limited data collection. That's not a meme. That's not a falsehood. That's not misleading. Those are facts. While the risk to any one individual may be small, the risks are real and growing in terms of frequency and fatalities.

Edited by Sneezyone
  • Like 12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, umsami said:

Going to add a request from the Muslim community.  Please do not watch the video/livestream.  Please do not share his name.  Please do not read his manifesto.  

Give him as little publicity as possible.  Mourn the victims.  Publicize their names and their stories.  Give the shooter zero publicity.  

No need to promote copycat crimes.  Going to Friday prayer tomorrow will be tough enough.

 

14 hours ago, lewelma said:

google, youtube, and facebook are trying to take down the video.  NZ providers are blocking other websites with the video from being accessed inside NZ. I think this is good.  

 

Lifehacker has a post How to Block Horrible Videos on Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube that might be helpful to some. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Changes to gun laws, not yet specified.

Good on you, NZ. 

A sane reaction to an appalling tragedy.

 

  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Corraleno said:

The main suspect posted an extreme right-wing, anti-muslim, anti-immigrant manifesto saying he had been planning the attack for two years. One of the witnesses said he first shot up the men's prayer room, then walked into the women's prayer room and started killing women and children.

Cowardly, low-life scum. He doesn't even deserve to be called a man. 😡(And that goes for anyone who kills women and children and people who are praying.)

Edited by MercyA
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Cowardly, low-life scum. He doesn't even deserve to be called a man. 😡(And that goes for anyone who kills women and children)

Praying or not.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Katy said:

 

Why did the FBI and people who specialize in criminology categorize it that way?  I'm no expert but as an educated guess... because of the ways people process fear and make choices. The risk of someone you know flipping out and murdering you is much higher than a stranger murdering you, despite people being much more paralyzed by fear of the stranger. Gang violence can largely be avoided by avoiding gang territories. Because people need to know it is much more important to escape domestic violence with your children than it is to avoid schools, shopping malls, concerts or places of worship. Because people generally know if a coworker is unhinged before they go postal, and they need to know there is nothing wrong with expressing a concern that someone is unwell and needs help before they get so sick they make a huge mistake.

Of course you're much more likely to die of anything other than murder.  But it's murder by strangers that paralyzes people with fear and fear of crime that think tanks and lobbying groups use to push for political changes on both sides.  Either you're afraid of anyone having a weapon or you're afraid to not have a weapon because "The bad guys have them."  Falsely inflating the types of crimes that people have NO control over is only done for the purposes of fear mongering click bait (money) and political propaganda (power). 

I hear it from both sides and I'm SO SICK of it. People don't share misleading information for no reason. I honestly don't know what the answer to weapons is. Like many hard problems it is complicated and there is no easy solution.  But I can guarantee you that people who are manipulating the facts are hiding an agenda, and the fears they stir up give extremists a platform. I don't trust extremists on either side. I trust the people in the middle who are dedicated to reason and using the truth so much more.

Shenanigans.  Posting the entire data set is not being misleading.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am so incredibly sad as I read the stories of the people who were killed. So many were immigrants, some of whom were trying to find a safer life than their own homes could offer.  

Daoud Nabi was born in Afghanistan in the late 1940s.  He would have been younger than I am when the Soviets invaded, and Afghanistan is still at war, 40 years later.  But the shooter called him and other Muslim immigrants “invaders.”  His sons were late for prayers and survived.

Somalis were part of the leadership of the al-Noor mosque, and some were killed.  My ds is doing a gap year in an African country where he teaches Somali and other children from different African countries to read.  To think of them getting shot while they are praying is horrible.

Palestinian refugees were shot.  They’ve been refugees for at least 50 years.

People born in India, Pakistan, Jordan, Bangladesh.  Syrian refugees.  Any immigrant community has so many stories to tell, but it also has people who hate its members simply for moving to a new country.  This is certainly not unique to New Zealand and it’s hard to be an immigrant anywhere and always has been.  But there’s no denying that anti-immigrant rhetoric has increased worldwide in the last 5-7 years and I’m really concerned that it’s getting worse.  And yes, I do think anti-immigrant rhetoric in the US empowered the shooter to do what he did.  He made that clear in his manifesto.

This photo shows a man being taken to the hospital with his finger raised to siginify there is one God.  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-15/christchurch-mosque-shooting-victim-taken-into-an-ambulance-1/10904630

  • Like 15

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/15/2019 at 4:04 PM, StellaM said:

 

NZ hasn't had a mass shooting for close to 30 years, apparently. 

Honestly, I find it hard to understand such a thing happening in Christchurch.

When i saw the place name in the OP, I assumed another earthquake.

You are totally right, imo, re the guns.  Maybe mosques in this part of the word will have to start having armed guards though ? Idk. I think synagogues do, I don't think the mosque near me does. Not sure.

And our last one was a lone crazy gunman is a small town with about 1/5 the death toll.  And I remember that was pretty surreal when I turned on the TV.  We don't do this stuff here.

It makes me angry.  Many of the people were refugees who trusted they would have a better life here.  The least we should have done was kept away mad gunmen.  It is hard enough to move halfway across the world to live in a place where you are misunderstood without not being able to pray safely.

Edited by kiwik
  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, StellaM said:

Changes to gun laws, not yet specified.

Good on you, NZ. 

A sane reaction to an appalling tragedy.

 

I am pretty sure we were going to change gun laws last time.  Though maybe we did as at some point it changed from registering the gun to registering the owner.  So now we have a better idea of who legally owns guns but not what or how many.  On the other hand we didn't have the current prime minister then. Women with young babies have a low tolerance for gun violence.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, kiwik said:

  Many of the people were refugees who trusted they would have a better life here.  

My friends are just horribly embarrassed. These people trusted us. They came here for a better life. 

  • Like 1
  • Sad 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, lewelma said:

My friends are just horribly embarrassed. These people trusted us. They came here for a better life. 

Yeah I feel sad for the people and for Christchurch but mostly angry and embarrassed and guilty.

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

A must watch (IMHO) from an Australian Muslim news anchor....

  • Like 5
  • Sad 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, umsami said:

 

A must watch (IMHO) from an Australian Muslim news anchor....

I saw this earlier today. So sad.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love what he said at the end.  Thanks for posting that, umsami.

Edited by Amira
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I couldn't get in. The lines were thousands of people long -- check out the third photo. They were estimating 12K showed up. Buses and trains into the city were free and all street parking was free.  As we walked there, everywhere you looked, people were all going the same direction.

New Zealand has rallied around our Muslim community. As the PM said in her speech, which you can see on signs in rallies throughout the country: They are us. 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/111348087/wellington-weeps-capitals-huge-vigil-mourns-victims-of-christchurch-mosque-shootings

Edited by lewelma
  • Like 9
  • Thanks 1
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a questions for the Muslims. I had the opportunity to visit our local small mosque last year as part of a school "field trip." The mosque has been in town for about a decade or so. My town is about 75k people with some racist/xenophobic past (and present). The community at large now has been supportive of making sure the Muslim community feels welcome and safe, yet I am always concerned after violence of this nature that some alt-right supremacist will see this as a time to lash out against our mosque. 

Would it be appropriate to send a card to the mosque? Should I send a supportive card, sympathy card, hand written note of support? What is the etiquette in situation like this? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, umsami said:

 

A must watch (IMHO) from an Australian Muslim news anchor....

 Unfortunately, the quotes he read from Australian politicians are eerily similar to some by a couple of American ones. Also, one person spent at least a year hounding a president to use the term radical Islam terrorism; perhaps we need to put someone’s  feet to the fire to say radical right wing terrorism. Perhaps some of the billions of dollars spent on the former type should now be shared with combating the latter type.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, elegantlion said:

I have a questions for the Muslims. I had the opportunity to visit our local small mosque last year as part of a school "field trip." The mosque has been in town for about a decade or so. My town is about 75k people with some racist/xenophobic past (and present). The community at large now has been supportive of making sure the Muslim community feels welcome and safe, yet I am always concerned after violence of this nature that some alt-right supremacist will see this as a time to lash out against our mosque. 

Would it be appropriate to send a card to the mosque? Should I send a supportive card, sympathy card, hand written note of support? What is the etiquette in situation like this? 

Absolutely.  Those things help a lot and are especially useful to show to children so that they feel safer. ❤️ 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this is a beautiful picture of her -- the one further down shows her clasping her hands. She is the face of NZ, the face of our sadness.  (Don't forget that she has a 9-month old baby.) I feel very much that she is directing the country towards compassion and firm resolve.  

https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/face-of-empathy-jacinda-ardern-photo-resonates-worldwide-after-attack-20190318-p5152g.html

Edited by lewelma
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a friend who told me that all she feels is guilt. Not anger, not horror, just guilt that we let this happen to our migrant and refugee community. 

  • Like 1
  • Sad 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, lewelma said:

I think this is a beautiful picture of her -- the one further down shows her clasping her hands. She is the face of NZ, the face of our sadness.  (Don't forget that she has a 9-month old baby.) I feel very much that she is directing the country towards compassion and firm resolve.  

https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/face-of-empathy-jacinda-ardern-photo-resonates-worldwide-after-attack-20190318-p5152g.html

 

Those that think the atmosphere of a country is not affected by its leaders are in denial.  

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OT. From BBC https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47611811

“A gunman has opened fire inside a tram and at several other locations in the Dutch city of Utrecht, authorities say.

Several people have been injured and one is feared to have died, media reports say. 

Police say the gunman is still at large. Trains and trams have stopped running and schools have been asked to keep their doors closed.

Counter-terrorism police reportedly say the shooting "appears to be a terrorist attack".

Dutch anti-terrorism co-ordinator Pieter-Jaap Aalbersberg said all efforts were now focused on catching the gunman. He also said there could be more than one perpetrator.

The threat level has been temporarily raised to its highest point in the province of Utrecht. 

Utrecht University has reportedly closed all buildings, with nobody allowed in or out. Trains are also not allowed to run into Utrecht Central station, and mosques across the city have reportedly been closed due to security concerns.

...

Police have increased security at airports throughout the Netherlands.

Security services have reportedly told Utrecht's University Medical Centre to open the dedicated emergency ward to help care for the injured.

The tram shooting happened at about 10:45 local time (09:45 GMT).

"A man started shooting wildly," one eyewitness told Dutch news site NU.nl.

Another witness told Dutch public broadcaster NOS that he saw an injured woman with blood on her hands and clothes.

"I brought her into my car and helped her," he said. "When the police arrived, she was unconscious."

It is unknown how many were injured or how seriously they were hurt.

Utrecht's transport authority said all trams have now been cancelled, due to the increased threat level.”

ETA:

From CBC CA https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/utrecht-netherlands-shooting-1.5060675

“Dutch police have released the name and photo of a Turkish man sought in connection with Monday morning's shooting on a tram in Utrecht that has left three people dead and nine wounded.

"The police ask you to watch out for 37-year-old Gokman Tanis (born in Turkey) in connection with this morning's incident," a police statement said.

...

Initially, police confirmed one person had been killed after they erected a tent over a body lying next to the tram. Utrecht Mayor Jan van Zanen later revised the death toll to three and said nine others were wounded, three of them seriously.

...

German police said they have upped surveillance on the country's border with the Netherlands and are on the lookout for the gunman responsible for the tram shooting. 

Heinrich Onstein, a spokesperson for the federal police in the border state of North Rhine-Westphalia, said additional police had been added to watch not only major highways, but also minor crossings as well as railway routes. ”

Edited by Arcadia
  • Like 1
  • Sad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for updating us, Arcadia - I hadn’t heard about that one.  Hopefully the injuries are only minor and any accomplices are quickly caught.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From MarketWatch https://www.marketwatch.com/story/new-zealand-bans-assault-weapons-just-days-after-mosque-massacre-2019-03-20

“CHRISTCHURCH, New Zealand — Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced an immediate ban Thursday on semi-automatic and automatic weapons like the ones used in the attacks on two mosques in Christchurch that killed 50 worshippers.

The man charged in the attack had purchased his weapons legally using a standard firearms license and enhanced their capacity by using 30-round magazines “done easily through a simple online purchase,” she said.

“Every semi-automatic weapon used in the terrorist attack on Friday will be banned,” she said.

Ardern’s announcement comes less than a week after the killings, as more of the dead were being buried. At least six funerals took place Thursday, including for a teenager, a youth soccer coach and a Muslim convert who loved connecting with other women at the mosque.”

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They are banning both the purchase and the ownership of these weapons, and all parts to make them, and all larger magazine/clips. There will be a buy back program.  There will also be carefully regulated exemptions to the ban -- I saw the example of a farmer who needs to cull his herd. 

We have a bunch of 20-something workmen (builders, joiners, electricians, etc) at my apartment complex this month, and they all support it. 

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I fear there are not enough exemptions and not enough money for the buyback.  If you are a serious collector with a weopon worth 10's of thousands in your collection and are offered less than 1000 in the buyback it is going to breed illwill. These are responsible law abiding people who resent being made criminals overnight  and will probably follow the law but remember we don't know how many guns there are in NZ so if purchases that haven't been seen are buried no-one would know.  I would hate to see her lose the next election due to the backlash.  If they hold the weopons they consficate until after the enquiry finishes it may help.

It is nice to see someone actually act decisively though isn't it?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/21/2019 at 5:03 PM, lewelma said:

 

I hope that those women who abhor the violence and the attack on a Muslim community, but will never cover, in solidarity with the women around the globe who are forced to do so, are not assumed to be Islamophobic for not joining in. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The chief censor has banned the video and manifesto.  Hate speech is allowed, but content inciting violence is not.  All copies must be destroy, and policy are starting to go after the people who have disseminated them.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, StellaM said:

I hope that those women who abhor the violence and the attack on a Muslim community, but will never cover, in solidarity with the women around the globe who are forced to do so, are not assumed to be Islamophobic for not joining in. 

 

I saw only beauty in the photos and videos that were posted. People stood together. 

We are one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...