News: Christchurch mosque shooting sees armed police deployed and schools in lockdown (Update: semi-automatic and automatic weapons ban)

[Arcadia]

From abc Australia https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-15/armed-police-respond-to-suspected-shooting-christchurch-mosque/10904306

“There are reports up to a dozen people have been shot at a mosque in Christchurch, New Zealand.

Armed police have been deployed after reports of shots being fired at a mosque in Christchurch.

Police have confirmed they are responding to a "critical incident".

Several schools are in lockdown and witnesses have reported multiple injuries. 

People in central Christchurch have been urged to stay indoors and report any suspicious behaviour immediately to authorities.

New Zealand's Prime Minister is expected to speak shortly. 

A witness interviewed on TVNZ said a man carrying a gun entered the mosque about 1:45pm (local time).”

ETA:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12213039

“KEY POINTS:

• Dozens feared killed as at least two gunmen open fire at two central Christchurch mosques

• City in lockdown, with reports of a third shooting scene and a car bomb in Strickland St

• One gunman, believed to be Australian, filmed as he shot victims in the mosque - and wrote a 37-page manifesto declaring his intentions

...

Police Commissioner Mike Bush has confirmed "multiple fatalities".

He said there was one person in custody "but we are unsure if there are other people".

"Again we are unsure if there are any other locations outside of that area."

The multiple fatalities were at two locations - a mosque at Deans Ave and one at Linwood Ave.

There are reports of a third active shooting unfolding outside Christchurch Hospital.”

 

Edited March 21, 2019 by Arcadia

[Corraleno]

This report says there were shootings at two separate mosques AND the main hospital in Christchurch. Eyewitnesses say at least one of the shooters was a white man with blond hair wearing a helmet and bullet proof vest and carrying an automatic rifle. Some sources are saying at least 50 people have been shot, including children. 😥

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Corraleno

[MercyA]

Horrible. 😞

[umsami]

It is horrible.  They shot for 20 minutes....going room to room.   It was Jummah prayer (think Sunday worship).  

 

Guardian has good live coverage.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2019/mar/15/christchurch-shooting-injuries-reported-as-police-respond-to-critical-incident-live

 

What worries me more is that a guy at a big org in Florida is talking about how he and every Muslim should carry a gun for self protection.  Umm....no...that will just increase the likelihood of lethal DV incidents and suicide.

[Ausmumof3]

What the hell?!!!

seriously this world is a mess

[umsami]

Apparently, they shot at worshipers in two different mosques.

 

For those who are curious, when a Muslim dies, the way to give condolences is to say "Inna Lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un" which means "From God we come and to God we return."  (Yes, you can say it in English.  People will be grateful either way.)

Edited March 15, 2019 by umsami

[Corraleno]

OMG apparently the shooter livestreamed it — there is video of him walking up to people lying on the floor bleeding and just point-blank murdering the ones who weren't already dead. 

[umsami]

5 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

OMG apparently the shooter livestreamed it — there is video of him walking up to people lying on the floor bleeding and just point-blank murdering the ones who weren't already dead. 

Going to add a request from the Muslim community.  Please do not watch the video/livestream.  Please do not share his name.  Please do not read his manifesto.  

Give him as little publicity as possible.  Mourn the victims.  Publicize their names and their stories.  Give the shooter zero publicity.  

No need to promote copycat crimes.  Going to Friday prayer tomorrow will be tough enough.

[lewelma]

Grover lives in Christchurch, but I haven't seen her on the board for a while.  Will be very interesting to see where the guns came from as they are illegal here. Even the police only have Tasers. 

In my experience, there is very little anti-muslim rhetoric here. Me personally, I've never heard anything anti-muslim *ever*. So it will also be interested to see who has trained them for hate. 

So sad. 😞

Ruth in NZ

[umsami]

Death count is up to 27 now. 😞

[lewelma]

I will say, however, that they will be caught.  There is no where to hide here. The country is too small and everyone knows everyone.

I remember once about 20 years ago that there was a hand gun spotted in Wellington when someone held up a convenience store. And it was all over the radio.  "he was last spotted heading down Courtnay Place. Call in if you see him. Oh, another call, he has now been spotted on Tory.....etc"  Took them 10 minutes. 

 

[Amira]

إنا لله وإنا إليه راجعون

This is such horrible news.

[Ausmumof3]

37 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Grover lives in Christchurch, but I haven't seen her on the board for a while.  Will be very interesting to see where the guns came from as they are illegal here. Even the police only have Tasers. 

In my experience, there is very little anti-muslim rhetoric here. Me personally, I've never heard anything anti-muslim *ever*. So it will also be interested to see who has trained them for hate. 

So sad. 😞

Ruth in NZ

Really?  My dh always talks about how much looser Nz gun laws are than here.

i did a quick check on wiki and it looks like your lower level gun class allows for semi auto weapons.  Here you need to be in primary production or professional shooting to get that kind of weapon.

I’m so sorry!  Poor Christchurch has had a bad few years.

[Ausmumof3]

Reports are that the shooter is an Australian.  That would make a horrible kind of sense unfortunately.  

 

[Ausmumof3]

10 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

Ugh. But yes.

Apparently 4 people are in custody ? 

 

Only 1 Australian I think or maybe he’s the only one they have an identity for or are sure of the involvement.  Given the level seems like there must be more than one.

[lewelma]

Lots of sirens in Wellington tonight. Very disturbing.  They are not sure it is confined to Christchurch. 😞

ETA: now a police helicopter zipping by. 

Edited March 15, 2019 by lewelma

[lewelma]

Apparently, the defense force diffused multiple car bombs.  This was well planned. 

 

[SKL]

Our news is saying 4 suspects are in custody.  They are saying between 9 and 27 deaths.  But these are not official reports.  It is fairly common for the news to be inaccurate shortly after an incident.

Prayers for the victims and the community.

[Corraleno]

33 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Apparently, the defense force diffused multiple car bombs.  This was well planned. 

 

The main suspect posted an extreme right-wing, anti-muslim, anti-immigrant manifesto saying he had been planning the attack for two years. One of the witnesses said he first shot up the men's prayer room, then walked into the women's prayer room and started killing women and children.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Corraleno

[Chris in VA]

Omg. Between this and the violence on the Haram/Temple Mount and Gaza, my heart is so sore. St. George's College here where we live on the Cathedral close is having an interfaith study tour this week, with Muslims, Jews and Christians all visiting sites and discussing different stories and interpretations of historical events here. They went to Hebron yesterday and were on the Haram the day  when the molotav cocktail and subsequent closing of the Damascus Gate occurred. It has been a respectful group, and their heartbreak at what is happening is palpable. 

[Ausmumof3]

The news had pics of weapons etc and they were posted with names/dates of places and people from Christian/Muslim battles and more recently neo nazi clashes.  I don’t want to read the whole manifesto because that’s what the shooter would want it guess but seems like it’s a white extremist type thing.

[Amira]

40 people were killed. 30 at al-Noor mosque and ten at Linwood mosque.  Dozens more were shot.

 

 

[Catwoman]

The news keeps getting worse and worse. It’s unimaginably horrible. 😞

[lewelma]

google, youtube, and facebook are trying to take down the video.  NZ providers are blocking other websites with the video from being accessed inside NZ. I think this is good.  

[Corraleno]

7 minutes ago, lewelma said:

google, youtube, and facebook are trying to take down the video.  NZ providers are blocking other websites with the video from being accessed inside NZ. I think this is good.  

I'm also glad to see that although the guy's name and photo were available on one or two sites, most NZ/AUS/UK media are avoiding identifying him and are just referring to him as "the suspect" or "the shooter." I hope that continues. If this were in the US, the guy's name and face would be plastered all over every media outlet by now, and plenty of other sickos would be treating him like a hero. 

[lewelma]

Found this interesting.  

Murders are rare in New Zealand, and gun homicides even rarer. There were 35 murders countrywide in 2017. Since 2007, gun homicides have been in the single digits each year except 2009, when there were 11.

But there are plenty of guns. There were 1.2 million registered firearms in a country of 4.6 million people in 2017, according to the Small Arms Survey, a Swiss nonprofit.

Edited March 15, 2019 by lewelma

[Ausmumof3]

Now 49 dead...

[Ausmumof3]

Of the 4 in custody it’s believed one just happened to be armed at the scene not involved and the other two police are unsure yet.   Only one person charged for now.

[Rosie_0801]

5 hours ago, umsami said:

Going to add a request from the Muslim community.  Please do not watch the video/livestream.  Please do not share his name.  Please do not read his manifesto.  

Give him as little publicity as possible.  Mourn the victims.  Publicize their names and their stories.  Give the shooter zero publicity.  

No need to promote copycat crimes.  Going to Friday prayer tomorrow will be tough enough.

And it allows hate to overshadow the kids who were out marching today for a better future.

[Lanny]

To massacre innocent people anywhere is horrible. To do it in a "House of God" when people are praying is worse.  Very sad.    

[Arcadia]

From ChannelNewsAsia https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/christchurch-shootings-2-malaysians-injured-6-indonesians-were-11348318

“CHRISTCHURCH: Two Malaysians were injured in a deadly gun attack on two mosques in Christchurch on Friday (Mar 15), the Malaysian foreign ministry said. Indonesia also said six of its citizens were inside an affected mosque at the time of the shooting

...

Malaysia’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs said in a statement that there are no Malaysian fatalities and that the injured are being treated. 

“Malaysia condemns in the strongest terms, this senseless act of terror on innocent civilians and hopes that those responsible for this barbaric crime be brought to justice,” it said.

... 

Indonesia’s Foreign Minister Retno LP Marsudi said six Indonesians were praying at Al-Noor Mosque when the attack happened. While three of the men are confirmed to have escaped the shooting, Indonesian officials are still trying to reach the other three, the Jakarta Post reported.

“A team from the embassy has been dispatched to Christchurch to seek information on our people who happened to be in the mosque, particularly the three who still cannot be contacted,” the minister said.

She added that there are currently 330 Indonesians living in Christchurch, 130 of whom are students.”

[Pawz4me]

49 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

and the rare workplace/public shooting like this one.

We must have vastly different definitions of "rare."

[JennyD]

This is just ghastly.

 

[Arcadia]

News is starting to report on the victims. From CNA https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/christchurch-shootings-injured-malaysian-hit-by-several-bullets-11349522

A Malaysian official in New Zealand told the family that Rahimi was among the wounded taken to hospital. They were first told that he had been hit in the hip, but his wife later telephoned to say Rahimi was in a critical condition, and doctors were trying to remove several bullets from his body.

“He will be undergoing another surgery to remove bullets from his spine tomorrow,” Rahmi's wife said during the phone call, as reported by the Malay Mail.

...

A member of a large Malaysian community living in the area, Rahimi was a regular at the mosque.

He worked as a technician at a milk factory while his wife Norazila Wahid, 39, studied medicine specialising in neurology.

Aside from his son, he also has a daughter aged nine.

The family have been living in New Zealand for four years. They were planning to return to Malaysia next year, once his wife finished her studies, Rokiah said.”

[Katy]

1 hour ago, Pawz4me said:

We must have vastly different definitions of "rare."

 

This is why the FBI definition of "mass shooting" is more specific than this list.  It's something like 3 or more strangers in a single location and it specifically excludes gang wars.  Which yields a drastically different figure than lists compiled by random people on wikipedia or reddit that include situations where someone murders his entire family, shoots bosses and coworkers he is angry at, pulls out a gun to end a drunken bar fight, or lives in a crime ridden neighborhood in between rival gangs.

What happened in NZ was clearly terrorism.  But your chances of randomly being in the midst of a mass murder by a stranger is much less than it has ever been, no matter what terrifying thing you see on wikipedia, reddit, or some news article based off a reddit thread.

I think this is an important distinction to make because false crime statistics cause a lot of people I know in real life crippling anxiety.  When the truth is that if you're in a safe relationship and live in a safe neighborhood you are safer than you have ever been.  It's terrifying that the fewer mass shootings seem to have higher body counts though.

 

I don't want to take away from how terrible this tragedy is, or that several boardies over the last few years have discussed fearing this very scenario.  But I hate using misleading statistics to terrorize people, and I don't care which side of the political aisle the person is standing on.  The ends don't justify the means.  People do not make rational or compassionate decisions when they are terrified.

[goldberry]

Do yourselves a favor and don't read any of the comments on any of the articles.  😭  The hate within our own country will make you want to become a hermit and never interact with people again.

[Valley Girl]

What a monster. Thanks, Umsami, for passing on the request from the Muslim community. I sure won't be watching any video or reading this guy's evil rantings.

[TravelingChris]

14 hours ago, umsami said:

Going to add a request from the Muslim community.  Please do not watch the video/livestream.  Please do not share his name.  Please do not read his manifesto.  

Give him as little publicity as possible.  Mourn the victims.  Publicize their names and their stories.  Give the shooter zero publicity.  

No need to promote copycat crimes.  Going to Friday prayer tomorrow will be tough enough.

1

Not just the Muslim community.  The criminology community agrees w/ the above 

[Sneezyone]

4 hours ago, Katy said:

 

This is why the FBI definition of "mass shooting" is more specific than this list.  It's something like 3 or more strangers in a single location and it specifically excludes gang wars.  Which yields a drastically different figure than lists compiled by random people on wikipedia or reddit that include situations where someone murders his entire family, shoots bosses and coworkers he is angry at, pulls out a gun to end a drunken bar fight, or lives in a crime ridden neighborhood in between rival gangs.

What happened in NZ was clearly terrorism.  But your chances of randomly being in the midst of a mass murder by a stranger is much less than it has ever been, no matter what terrifying thing you see on wikipedia, reddit, or some news article based off a reddit thread.

I think this is an important distinction to make because false crime statistics cause a lot of people I know in real life crippling anxiety.  When the truth is that if you're in a safe relationship and live in a safe neighborhood you are safer than you have ever been.  It's terrifying that the fewer mass shootings seem to have higher body counts though.

 

I don't want to take away from how terrible this tragedy is, or that several boardies over the last few years have discussed fearing this very scenario.  But I hate using misleading statistics to terrorize people, and I don't care which side of the political aisle the person is standing on.  The ends don't justify the means.  People do not make rational or compassionate decisions when they are terrified.

 

Why in heaven’s name would you strip out incidents of family and workplace violence and even gang violence in counting mass shooting cases and victims? Are the people less dead? Were the guns less present? Are the body counts smaller? I agree with you that the definition of mass shootings is in dispute but it seems to me folks want to carve out exceptions to minimize the perception of risk. There are lots of people on this board with testimonies of good relationships gone bad, stable coworkers who lose their -ish, kids who develop mental health challenges, etc. you’ve got a lot of ifs in there as guarantors of safety that are unreliable at best. https://www.fbi.gov/about/partnerships/office-of-partner-engagement/active-shooter-incidents-graphics

Edited March 15, 2019 by Sneezyone

[Katy]

41 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

Why in heaven’s name would you strip out incidents of family and workplace violence and even gang violence in counting mass shooting cases and victims? Are the people less dead? Were the guns less present? Are the body counts smaller? I agree with you that the definition of mass shootings is in dispute but it seems to me folks want to carve out exceptions to minimize the perception of risk. There are lots of people on this board with testimonies of good relationships gone bad, stable coworkers who lose their -ish, kids who develop mental health challenges, etc. you’ve got a lot of ifs in there as guarantors of safety that are unreliable at best. https://www.fbi.gov/about/partnerships/office-of-partner-engagement/active-shooter-incidents-graphics

 

Why did the FBI and people who specialize in criminology categorize it that way?  I'm no expert but as an educated guess... because of the ways people process fear and make choices. The risk of someone you know flipping out and murdering you is much higher than a stranger murdering you, despite people being much more paralyzed by fear of the stranger. Gang violence can largely be avoided by avoiding gang territories. Because people need to know it is much more important to escape domestic violence with your children than it is to avoid schools, shopping malls, concerts or places of worship. Because people generally know if a coworker is unhinged before they go postal, and they need to know there is nothing wrong with expressing a concern that someone is unwell and needs help before they get so sick they make a huge mistake.

Of course you're much more likely to die of anything other than murder.  But it's murder by strangers that paralyzes people with fear and fear of crime that think tanks and lobbying groups use to push for political changes on both sides.  Either you're afraid of anyone having a weapon or you're afraid to not have a weapon because "The bad guys have them."  Falsely inflating the types of crimes that people have NO control over is only done for the purposes of fear mongering click bait (money) and political propaganda (power). 

I hear it from both sides and I'm SO SICK of it. People don't share misleading information for no reason. I honestly don't know what the answer to weapons is. Like many hard problems it is complicated and there is no easy solution.  But I can guarantee you that people who are manipulating the facts are hiding an agenda, and the fears they stir up give extremists a platform. I don't trust extremists on either side. I trust the people in the middle who are dedicated to reason and using the truth so much more.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Katy
clarification

[lewelma]

What makes NZ different from the US, is that we have a parliamentary system. What this means in NZ is that the ministers that are in the ruling coalition are required to vote as a block.  So once the 'government' (which is the ten-ish ministers with cabinet posts) make a decision as to how to handle this, the rest of the ministers in the ruling coalition must vote with them.  The ministers in the opposition obviously vote, but will always be out voted.  The point is, the government can make sweeping changes without having to compromise with the opposition party, and they don't have to corral votes like you do in the US. So, we will see a united front, and the government could easily and literally overnight: 

1) change the gun laws

2) change immigration rules to keep out extremists (we are an island)

3) block certain extremist internet sites (there is only 1 trunk line into NZ which can be controlled)

etc

What I will be watching is how the government handles this power.  The goal is obviously to stop this from happening again without the citizens of NZ losing their freedoms. Luckily, I have found that the current government seems to make decisions based on evidence, and it is a coalition of multiple parties so represents a variety of views.

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by lewelma

[lewelma]

The givealittle site is down. So many of us want to contribute to the hurting families. 

[Sneezyone]

49 minutes ago, Katy said:

 

Why did the FBI and people who specialize in criminology categorize it that way?  I'm no expert but as an educated guess... because of the ways people process fear and make choices. The risk of someone you know flipping out and murdering you is much higher than a stranger murdering you, despite people being much more paralyzed by fear of the stranger. Gang violence can largely be avoided by avoiding gang territories. Because people need to know it is much more important to escape domestic violence with your children than it is to avoid schools, shopping malls, concerts or places of worship. Because people generally know if a coworker is unhinged before they go postal, and they need to know there is nothing wrong with expressing a concern that someone is unwell and needs help before they get so sick they make a huge mistake.

Of course you're much more likely to die of anything other than murder.  But it's murder by strangers that paralyzes people with fear and fear of crime that think tanks and lobbying groups use to push for political changes on both sides.  Either you're afraid of anyone having a weapon or you're afraid to not have a weapon because "The bad guys have them."  Falsely inflating the types of crimes that people have NO control over is only done for the purposes of fear mongering click bait (money) and political propaganda (power). 

I hear it from both sides and I'm SO SICK of it. People don't share misleading information for no reason. I honestly don't know what the answer to weapons is. Like many hard problems it is complicated and there is no easy solution.  But I can guarantee you that people who are manipulating the facts are hiding an agenda, and the fears they stir up give extremists a platform. I don't trust extremists on either side. I trust the people in the middle who are dedicated to reason and using the truth so much more.

 

IJS. The risks of stranger mass-shootings to which you refer HAVE gone up according to the FBIs own limited data collection. That's not a meme. That's not a falsehood. That's not misleading. Those are facts. While the risk to any one individual may be small, the risks are real and growing in terms of frequency and fatalities.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Sneezyone

[MercyA]

16 hours ago, Corraleno said:

The main suspect posted an extreme right-wing, anti-muslim, anti-immigrant manifesto saying he had been planning the attack for two years. One of the witnesses said he first shot up the men's prayer room, then walked into the women's prayer room and started killing women and children.

Cowardly, low-life scum. He doesn't even deserve to be called a man. 😡(And that goes for anyone who kills women and children and people who are praying.)

Edited March 15, 2019 by MercyA

[ChocolateReignRemix]

4 hours ago, Katy said:

 

Why did the FBI and people who specialize in criminology categorize it that way?  I'm no expert but as an educated guess... because of the ways people process fear and make choices. The risk of someone you know flipping out and murdering you is much higher than a stranger murdering you, despite people being much more paralyzed by fear of the stranger. Gang violence can largely be avoided by avoiding gang territories. Because people need to know it is much more important to escape domestic violence with your children than it is to avoid schools, shopping malls, concerts or places of worship. Because people generally know if a coworker is unhinged before they go postal, and they need to know there is nothing wrong with expressing a concern that someone is unwell and needs help before they get so sick they make a huge mistake.

Of course you're much more likely to die of anything other than murder.  But it's murder by strangers that paralyzes people with fear and fear of crime that think tanks and lobbying groups use to push for political changes on both sides.  Either you're afraid of anyone having a weapon or you're afraid to not have a weapon because "The bad guys have them."  Falsely inflating the types of crimes that people have NO control over is only done for the purposes of fear mongering click bait (money) and political propaganda (power). 

I hear it from both sides and I'm SO SICK of it. People don't share misleading information for no reason. I honestly don't know what the answer to weapons is. Like many hard problems it is complicated and there is no easy solution.  But I can guarantee you that people who are manipulating the facts are hiding an agenda, and the fears they stir up give extremists a platform. I don't trust extremists on either side. I trust the people in the middle who are dedicated to reason and using the truth so much more.

Shenanigans.  Posting the entire data set is not being misleading.

[MercyA]

54 minutes ago, StellaM said:

Praying or not.

Yes, of course. 

[Amira]

I am so incredibly sad as I read the stories of the people who were killed. So many were immigrants, some of whom were trying to find a safer life than their own homes could offer.  

Daoud Nabi was born in Afghanistan in the late 1940s.  He would have been younger than I am when the Soviets invaded, and Afghanistan is still at war, 40 years later.  But the shooter called him and other Muslim immigrants “invaders.”  His sons were late for prayers and survived.

Somalis were part of the leadership of the al-Noor mosque, and some were killed.  My ds is doing a gap year in an African country where he teaches Somali and other children from different African countries to read.  To think of them getting shot while they are praying is horrible.

Palestinian refugees were shot.  They’ve been refugees for at least 50 years.

People born in India, Pakistan, Jordan, Bangladesh.  Syrian refugees.  Any immigrant community has so many stories to tell, but it also has people who hate its members simply for moving to a new country.  This is certainly not unique to New Zealand and it’s hard to be an immigrant anywhere and always has been.  But there’s no denying that anti-immigrant rhetoric has increased worldwide in the last 5-7 years and I’m really concerned that it’s getting worse.  And yes, I do think anti-immigrant rhetoric in the US empowered the shooter to do what he did.  He made that clear in his manifesto.

This photo shows a man being taken to the hospital with his finger raised to siginify there is one God.  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-15/christchurch-mosque-shooting-victim-taken-into-an-ambulance-1/10904630

[kiwik]

On 3/15/2019 at 4:04 PM, StellaM said:

 

NZ hasn't had a mass shooting for close to 30 years, apparently. 

Honestly, I find it hard to understand such a thing happening in Christchurch.

When i saw the place name in the OP, I assumed another earthquake.

You are totally right, imo, re the guns.  Maybe mosques in this part of the word will have to start having armed guards though ? Idk. I think synagogues do, I don't think the mosque near me does. Not sure.

And our last one was a lone crazy gunman is a small town with about 1/5 the death toll.  And I remember that was pretty surreal when I turned on the TV.  We don't do this stuff here.

It makes me angry.  Many of the people were refugees who trusted they would have a better life here.  The least we should have done was kept away mad gunmen.  It is hard enough to move halfway across the world to live in a place where you are misunderstood without not being able to pray safely.

Edited March 16, 2019 by kiwik

[kiwik]

6 hours ago, StellaM said:

Changes to gun laws, not yet specified.

Good on you, NZ. 

A sane reaction to an appalling tragedy.

 

I am pretty sure we were going to change gun laws last time.  Though maybe we did as at some point it changed from registering the gun to registering the owner.  So now we have a better idea of who legally owns guns but not what or how many.  On the other hand we didn't have the current prime minister then. Women with young babies have a low tolerance for gun violence.

[lewelma]

3 hours ago, kiwik said:

  Many of the people were refugees who trusted they would have a better life here.  

My friends are just horribly embarrassed. These people trusted us. They came here for a better life.