NARHS documentation for diploma

[Hilltopmom]

I know some of you have used NARHS for their diploma option. It’s looking like we may wind up homeschooling Dd for her last 2 years of school and want to use their diploma option this time around (long story, but likely necessary).

Im freaking out about the daily work documentation for homemade courses. Textbook courses you just have to submit their tests it sounds like but homemade ones you send every thing in for review? 

She would be using adapted special ed books and I know I have to get permission from NARHS ahead of time for that with her IEP, but sending everything in seems so daunting after not homeschooling that way with my oldest.

tell me it’s not as overwhelming as it seems?!?

Any recent users want to tell me how it went?

Thanks

[2_girls_mommy]

Can it be just a log with brief details about what you did each day? 

Tues. March. 13: watched Theodore Roosevelt webinar class from the National Park Service as part of the Presidential Primary Sources Project, took notes during presentation, read a biography of Roosevelt by Charlene Notgrass and discussion (what we actually did for history today...) 

We don't always have output, but I could log things like that daily (and do) for my homegrown courses. 

[Hilltopmom]

I believe it’s a daily log yes but we also have to submit all that daily work too (anything written)

[2_girls_mommy]

2 minutes ago, Hilltopmom said:

I believe it’s a daily log yes but we also have to submit all that daily work too (anything written)

Oh wow, so like mine took notes on their program today. You would have to send that in? That is a lot! 

[Hilltopmom]

@Margaret in CO 

[Hilltopmom]

Thanks so much Margaret! That was helpful 🙂

 

[A MOM IN GEORGIA]

Hi there @Hilltopmom - I know this is an old thread, but I am exploring umbrella programs and I wondered if you wound up using NARHS or some other program and if so, what your experience was like?  One of my sons is special ed so that made me especially curious about your experience. 

[Eos]

I used NARHS a long time ago for oldest ds, 2003 - 2007.  We found them easy and efficient, and only had homemade courses plus some DE. Documenting everything wasn't hard, but it's true I only had one high school student at the time. I learned a lot about grading and record-keeping from them. He got into all of the engineering schools he applied to, which I didn't realize at the time was very likely due to how they were able to package his very non-traditional education into a formal transcript. This was before cell phones, so it's probably much easier now to take pictures of daily work and send those.

We had the same admin during all of his years, she was friendly and easy to work with. I kind of remember there was some controversy after our time, but maybe I just made that up in my mind when they moved to WA from ME?  

I didn't use them for younger dc so had to then learn how to make transcripts and portfolios myself.  I have no idea how they are viewed or accepted now, @Farraror @Sebastian (a lady)might be more knowledgable. 

9 hours ago, A MOM IN GEORGIA said:

Hi there @Hilltopmom - I know this is an old thread, but I am exploring umbrella programs and I wondered if you wound up using NARHS or some other program and if so, what your experience was like?  One of my sons is special ed so that made me especially curious about your experience. 

 

[A MOM IN GEORGIA]

Thanks @Harpymom for weighing in!  That is really great to hear.  Yes I have heard that they were "bought out" or something like that, and under new management.  I don't know when it happened, though. 

[maize]

I'm using NARHS for my oldest because some of the colleges she is applying to don't accept unaccredited transcripts (this is apparently uncommon in most states).

They've been easy to work with. I submitted her portfolio electronically, but used a scanner app on my phone to save written work as PDFs in a Google Drive folder. I had a folder for the entire portfolio and sub folders for each class. You can scan as you go during the year, that way you don't have to worry about losing stuff. Our daily log was also a digital spreadsheet on Google drive, I listed the days of our school year in the left column and subjects across the top and just reported hours not details for each day. Submitting the portfolio was as easy as emailing the folder link to our assigned NARHS representative.

Other things I included in the portfolio were receipts for outside classes and tutoring and some miscellaneous things like photos or certificates from events.

The scanner app I use is TinyScanner Pro, I know there are others but this is the one I have used for years and it has always worked fine.

 

[Farrar]

They're not bad and they're fine for colleges - the thing that I think is not great for colleges is when you do something to get accreditation but it limits your homeschool. NARHS doesn't really as I understand it, so you're not losing the benefits of homeschooling in terms of applying to college. On the other hand, you're not gaining much. I don't think it makes much sense to pay for this sort of service most of the time. A small sliver of people need an accredited diploma for some reason, but most people just don't. And the bureaucracy is added work. It doesn't take things off your plate. If you're worried about a transcript not "looking good" you can do a transcript service and those only cost something like $30 a month (and many have a free version or a free trial month). And you only need to use them for a couple of months at most when you actually need the transcript. NARHS doesn't do the profile or counselor letter. And if you're graduating from an accredited school, you don't need course descriptions, which is honestly a bit of a wasted opportunity if a student is applying to highly selectives. If they're not... well, then that's fine and NARHS probably is totally fine. But homeschooling without it would also be totally fine in the vast majority of cases.

 

[A MOM IN GEORGIA]

Thank you for weighing in @maize and @Farrar!  Farrar, I hear you about the purpose.  In our case, my purpose is insurance in case for some reason one of my children unexpectedly needs to or wants to transfer to public school, as can happen with teenagers and/or if I become ill or lose my job or even die.  I'm actually about to turn the same age my father was when he died, so this has made me really think about that possibility a lot.  It never occurred to me, though, that by using a transcript service I would lose an opportunity to describe our courses and what we did.  That does seem like a shame.  I wonder if there is a workaround for that. 

Maize, may I ask how long you've been using them?  I am wondering if they give you very detailed guidance on what they expect up front, before you design the courses?

I also wondered if you are required to wait till the end of the year to submit things.  I am wanting to try something different things year, which is doing year round school, but only one class at a time (or maybe two, haven't decided yet), so I wondered if they would let me submit each class as we finished it and go ahead and get that credit -- or are you required to wait and submit everything all at once?  I could not really tell for sure from the website.

[maize]

3 minutes ago, A MOM IN GEORGIA said:

Thank you for weighing in @maize and @Farrar!  Farrar, I hear you about the purpose.  In our case, my purpose is insurance in case for some reason one of my children unexpectedly needs to or wants to transfer to public school, as can happen with teenagers and/or if I become ill or lose my job or even die.  I'm actually about to turn the same age my father was when he died, so this has made me really think about that possibility a lot.  It never occurred to me, though, that by using a transcript service I would lose an opportunity to describe our courses and what we did.  That does seem like a shame.  I wonder if there is a workaround for that. 

Maize, may I ask how long you've been using them?  I am wondering if they give you very detailed guidance on what they expect up front, before you design the courses?

I also wondered if you are required to wait till the end of the year to submit things.  I am wanting to try something different things year, which is doing year round school, but only one class at a time (or maybe two, haven't decided yet), so I wondered if they would let me submit each class as we finished it and go ahead and get that credit -- or are you required to wait and submit everything all at once?  I could not really tell for sure from the website.

This will be my third year with NARHS. I don't remember getting super detailed directions up front. They really are pretty flexible though. I called to ask some questions a couple of weeks ago and they were very helpful, I think you could call with the question about getting one credit at a time.

[A MOM IN GEORGIA]

thank you very much, @maize!

 

[Eos]

6 hours ago, Farrar said:

NARHS doesn't do the profile or counselor letter.

They did many years ago, I didn't know they stopped this.  I've loved writing my own profiles and counselor letters.

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, Harpymom said:

They did many years ago, I didn't know they stopped this.  I've loved writing my own profiles and counselor letters.

Maybe I’m incorrect about this? Someone with NARHS told me they did their own. Maybe there’s a choice?

[A MOM IN GEORGIA]

@maize what I have been trying to imagine now is what it is like to create a customized class with them.   What I had been hoping for was someone who would let me lay out some substantive content goals (so if it was math, I might have "quadratic equations" or something like that) ahead of time, but not have all the details about how we would get there filled out in advance.   My experience homeschooling through the years is that when I start with somebody else's materials in anything whatsoever, I always hit a patch where it's just not working / just not enough.  I find it so much better, especially with my special needs kid, to be able to switch gears.  occasionally this might even require a detour substantively when I suddenly realize that he has a "gap" that I have to stop and focus on for a while before we dive in to the bigger topic.    I am wondering if any of the umbrella services are flexible enough for me to keep working that way, but for my kid to still get credit for the work he's putting in.

It seems like it's very easy to deal with them if you use a textbook, it's super clear!  but then what if we don't finish that textbook or decide it's not a good approach so we go hop over to somewhere else for this bit or that bit?  so then I'll be back in the "customized" bucket with them!

I guess I'm hoping for a program that doesn't care how you "get there," but will give you credit for where you get -- but without making me create a bunch of lesson plans in advance!  and somewhere that if I start with a textbook, I won't have to worry that they won't let me change gears in the middle.   I realize that I am to some extent trying to have my cake and eat it too LOL.

I have gotten the impression that Clonlara -- which costs about 3X as much (!!) -- is extremely flexible the way I'm hoping for  -- but oh the cost differential!!   I'll just add, in case anyone else in the future is researching these things, that if my kids DID stick with this mode until graduation and we decided we wanted the diploma, Clonlara has layered on some graduation requirements I personally find a bit annoying, although livable.  so I do like the "bare bones" of NARHS, including the lower hour bar and the lower number of credits to get the diploma.  (although, we would not really be doing it for the diploma as I explained above.)  But I have worried that NARHS may not be as flexible as Clonlara when it comes to actual course design and implementation.  It's tough.

Edited August 29, 2021 by A MOM IN GEORGIA

[maize]

16 minutes ago, A MOM IN GEORGIA said:

@maize what I have been trying to imagine now is what it is like to create a customized class with them.   What I had been hoping for was someone who would let me lay out some substantive content goals (so if it was math, I might have "quadratic equations" or something like that) ahead of time, but not have all the details about how we would get there filled out in advance.   My experience homeschooling through the years is that when I start with somebody else's materials in anything whatsoever, I always hit a patch where it's just not working / just not enough.  I find it so much better, especially with my special needs kid, to be able to switch gears.  occasionally this might even require a detour substantively when I suddenly realize that he has a "gap" that I have to stop and focus on for a while before we dive in to the bigger topic.    I am wondering if any of the umbrella services are flexible enough for me to keep working that way, but for my kid to still get credit for the work he's putting in.

It seems like it's very easy to deal with them if you use a textbook, it's super clear!  but then what if we don't finish that textbook or decide it's not a good approach so we go hop over to somewhere else for this bit or that bit?  so then I'll be back in the "customized" bucket with them!

I guess I'm hoping for a program that doesn't care how you "get there," but will give you credit for where you get -- but without making me create a bunch of lesson plans in advance!  and somewhere that if I start with a textbook, I won't have to worry that they won't let me change gears in the middle.   I realize that I am to some extent trying to have my cake and eat it too LOL.

I have gotten the impression that Clonlara -- which costs about 3X as much (!!) -- is extremely flexible the way I'm hoping for  -- but oh the cost differential!!   I'll just add, in case anyone else in the future is researching these things, that if my kids DID stick with this mode until graduation and we decided we wanted the diploma, Clonlara has layered on some graduation requirements I personally find a bit annoying, although livable.  so I do like the "bare bones" of NARHS, including the lower hour bar and the lower number of credits to get the diploma.  (although, we would not really be doing it for the diploma as I explained above.)  But I have worried that NARHS may not be as flexible as Clonlara when it comes to actual course design and implementation.  It's tough.

NARHS will let you do this. When planning a self-designed class, one tool they provide is a goal-based grading sheet; you could use that to lay out the math course. You don't have to use one of their planning sheets either, you can make your own. They really are very flexible. Also, you can deviate from your original plan--what really matters is what you write up at the end.

I was worried my first year because we didn't have many text base classes (only one) and it actually took me forever to get my portfolio put together and submitted. I think I stressed way more than necessary, what I submitted was just fine. They basically just need evidence that your child has put in the hours and has produced enough work that they can call it a high school credit.

 

[maize]

16 hours ago, Farrar said:

Maybe I’m incorrect about this? Someone with NARHS told me they did their own. Maybe there’s a choice?

I need to ask them about this; I'll try to remember to report back.

One option I have considered is not enrolling for senior year (I haven't yet this year). I need the accredited transcript for college admission and scholarship purposes (some Utah schools just don't want to even consider an unaccredited transcript) but I think grades 9-11 might be sufficient. I guess I should check with the colleges on that. BYU used to have a policy of considering GPA if there were at least 15 accredited transcript credits and otherwise only counted test scores in their academic points matrix. They seem to have changed that and no longer give a credit cutoff but still strongly prefer accredited transcripts, and some of the Utah State universities do as well. Anyway, if she isn't enrolled in NARHS for senior year that would put me in charge of counselor letters and such. Need to figure this out soon!

Edited August 29, 2021 by maize

[A MOM IN GEORGIA]

@maize thank you so much for all of this information!  I have been so obsessed with making sure my kid(s) can transfer in credits as credits in case they go to our public school later (i.e., I just wanted to make sure they wouldn't have to repeat a grade, which would be AWFUL), that to be honest I have paid zero attention to grading, grades, or GPA!    Oh my, it's all so very exhausting LOL.  no wonder so many parents just send their kid to school!  I keep finding myself wishing I could travel back in time just a couple of years.  homeschooling for the first 8 years was so easy!  I wish i could just keep doing it like that forever. 

[MamaSprout]

38 minutes ago, A MOM IN GEORGIA said:

@maize thank you so much for all of this information!  I have been so obsessed with making sure my kid(s) can transfer in credits as credits in case they go to our public school later (i.e., I just wanted to make sure they wouldn't have to repeat a grade, which would be AWFUL), that to be honest I have paid zero attention to grading, grades, or GPA!    Oh my, it's all so very exhausting LOL.  no wonder so many parents just send their kid to school!  I keep finding myself wishing I could travel back in time just a couple of years.  homeschooling for the first 8 years was so easy!  I wish i could just keep doing it like that forever. 

There’s no guarantee a public school would take private distance credits. I would confirm before assuming it would work.

We have always been one-year-at-a-time homeschoolers, so I explored a lot of options closely as we got to high school.

[A MOM IN GEORGIA]

Hi @MamaSprout, your point is well taken.  I am blessed with being an attorney, and while this is not my area of expertise, I am looking at the precise laws in my state (Georgia).  While it is really hard to navigate, there is exactly one regulation which mandates transfer of credits, and it's this one: https://www.gadoe.org/External-Affairs-and-Policy/State-Board-of-Education/SBOE Rules/160-5-1-.15.pdf.  If you do it correctly, it will be non-discretionary for the school and the local board.  but only if you do it 100% exactly right.   The accreditation in particular must be an exact match, and there are oodles and oodles of supposedly accredited institutions that have the wrong sort of accreditation.   If you have the wrong type of accreditation, you are correct that you will wind up in the category that depends upon the school district.  They definitely don't make it easy for anyone to figure this out, and to be honest I think it might be almost impossible for a non-attorney to navigate these rules.  It's ridiculous.  but if you turn to page 5 of this pdf and read (g) it will start you on the right path.  But the school must be "accredited" as per the definition on page 1, it has to actually be a SCHOOL, and accredited as a SCHOOL, and this is where many people get messed up.  It cannot be a non-traditional education center, even though many of these are accredited and even count for purposes of the hope scholarship.  It cannot be accredited as a "corporation," as I have seen at least one highly popular place promote itself.  There are SO MANY traps for the unwary -- it is ridiculous.

The accreditation agency also must be one of those listed or their successors.   You have to go chase down a statute to find the entire list.  And because it's old, you have to figure out who the successors are, because half the list have changed names or merged.  It has been very exhausting. 

I want to share also that I have not 100% completed my diligence on NARHS, but they are indeed accredited by the correct sort of agency, and also as a school.  I am still confirming that they are accredited as a "secondary school," as the agency doesn't use that nomenclature, but I expect to find that it is fine.  If for some reason I find that it isn't, I will report back.

what concerned me more is that their current accreditation is set to expire at teh end of 2022 so they will have to renew soon.  I know that previously lost it for a little while.  For Georgia purposes, it must be accredited when you earn the credits, so I'm not too worried for this year, but it will be something to watch out for next year.  Also I would not look forward to having to deal with school personnel who don't understand that if I come in later and have to explain "they aren't accredited TODAY, but they were when we EARNED the credit."  honestly, I don't like to lawyer in real life LOL.  But I do like to be prepared in case I have to.

I don't want my kid to have to repeat a grade if I die!  Or take a bunch of subject tests (shudder)

Edited August 29, 2021 by A MOM IN GEORGIA

[MamaSprout]

Good grief! That is a lot to navigate. At least there is a path, though. In our state, it’s entirely up to the local schools. We have basically no regulations,  so that’s the trade off.

[A MOM IN GEORGIA]

@MamaSprout, that sounds awful.  I am curious if you are completely sure, though?  State regulations are extremely hard to locate.  Is it possible that there are some but you just were not aware of it?   Based on the Georgia homeschoolers FB group I'm in, I can tell you that most Georgia homeschoolers seem completely unaware of the state regulations.  Also, based on the one time I have interacted with a principal and a registrar at a local school, I can also tell you that school officials also seem to be ... either unaware of the state regulations, or they are not facile with them.  That's for sure.

[A MOM IN GEORGIA]

As a PS -- I should add that of course all my plans are worthless if we move out of state!  So the regulation I am looking at here only helps if we stay in Georgia.  Just in case someone else comes along and reads this later.   If you move around a lot or think you might, none of this is any guarantee!!  but in our case, moving out of state -- while always possible I suppose -- is a very unlikely scenario.

[MamaSprout]

5 hours ago, A MOM IN GEORGIA said:

@MamaSprout, that sounds awful.  I am curious if you are completely sure, though?  State regulations are extremely hard to locate.  Is it possible that there are some but you just were not aware of it?   Based on the Georgia homeschoolers FB group I'm in, I can tell you that most Georgia homeschoolers seem completely unaware of the state regulations.  Also, based on the one time I have interacted with a principal and a registrar at a local school, I can also tell you that school officials also seem to be ... either unaware of the state regulations, or they are not facile with them.  That's for sure.

Yes. We need to keep attendance. That’s it. No oversight. Homeschools are considered private schools in our state.

[A MOM IN GEORGIA]

well at least you don't have to take attendance.  but I think it's just wild that every individual district just makes up it's own rules.  so hard in this day and age when people move so often!

[Hilltopmom]

We didn’t wind up using them- due to the pandemic all state exams were waived in NY so dd was able to pass all of her public school classes & get a regular state diploma!

But they were our back up plan in case we needed to homeschool again or in case she could not pass the state exams needed in NY.

(silver lining!)

[A MOM IN GEORGIA]

Thanks for the follow up @Hilltopmom!  I'm glad you got a silver lining out of this terrible mess!  ❤️

[A MOM IN GEORGIA]

Hi I came to thank everyone for the help while I was making up my mind!  I personally found it so helpful to be able to search this forum for informatino I wanted to come back and close the loop in case anyone else every comes back and is interested.  Despite the FAR higher costs (!!!), Husband and I've decided to go with Clonlara instead at least for this year, partly due to hopes it would mean an easier time with the documentation and also because we were a little nervous about NARHS having to renew their accreditation next year.  Of course, it shouldn't matter as long as they are accredited when you earn your credits, but I think where we live we might have an annoying time of it if for some reason they were no longer accredited by the time we tried to transfer them in to the school.  If Clonlara doesn't work well this year, I am definitely going to keep NARHS in mind for the future!  it may also be that he would be a better fit for my special needs child later, if we decide we want to get him a diploma, but with fewer excess requirements.  anyhow, thanks again to everyone here for all the help.

[maize]

On 8/28/2021 at 3:26 PM, Farrar said:

Maybe I’m incorrect about this? Someone with NARHS told me they did their own. Maybe there’s a choice?

I just talked with NARHS about the school profile and counselor letter. They said I could choose whether to have the NARHS advisor do it or do my own.

I'm not sure how this works in practical terms with, say, the common app. This is my first year doing college applications. 

[A MOM IN GEORGIA]

I wish I knew something to share, but having not done a college application since my own over 30 years ago I cannot be much help 🤣.  good luck though!!