Desperately Need Math Advice

[mykidsrmyjoy]

My Dd9 is a very young 5th grader. I was the over-zealous 1st time homeschool mom with a very eager little student, so she started 1st grade when she was 5. It hasn't really been a problem as she is very bright and really has no trouble with anything...except math. 

She is almost finished with CLE Math 5. Most of her trouble in math is when a new concept is being introduced. For example, yesterday her math was on short division. She's been doing long division for a while now and knows it very well. She also is able to do simple addition/subtraction easily in her head. But we both were in tears by the end of her math lesson yesterday. I feel like she almost goes into panic mode when she's sees something new. I try to help her think through the concepts on her own (after I've explained to her multiple times how it's done), but sometimes I feel that she's intentionally playing dumb to get more attention and help from me. 

I really like CLE and was hoping to use it at least until high school, but at this point I almost wonder if she needs someone else to do the teaching. Math is taking up so much of our morning, and I have 5 other children younger than she is to tend to. Please help me with any suggestions or ideas you might have. 

[8filltheheart]

3 minutes ago, mykidsrmyjoy said:

My Dd9 is a very young 5th grader. I was the over-zealous 1st time homeschool mom with a very eager little student, so she started 1st grade when she was 5. It hasn't really been a problem as she is very bright and really has no trouble with anything...except math. 

She is almost finished with CLE Math 5. Most of her trouble in math is when a new concept is being introduced. For example, yesterday her math was on short division. She's been doing long division for a while now and knows it very well. She also is able to do simple addition/subtraction easily in her head. But we both were in tears by the end of her math lesson yesterday. I feel like she almost goes into panic mode when she's sees something new. I try to help her think through the concepts on her own (after I've explained to her multiple times how it's done), but sometimes I feel that she's intentionally playing dumb to get more attention and help from me. 

I really like CLE and was hoping to use it at least until high school, but at this point I almost wonder if she needs someone else to do the teaching. Math is taking up so much of our morning, and I have 5 other children younger than she is to tend to. Please help me with any suggestions or ideas you might have. 

I would probably put away the CLE books for now and take an alternative approach to math for the rest of this yr and then try I think again in a few months. Maybe you could try a few of the MM topical books. https://www.mathmammoth.com/blue-series.php I would go for a level where she will experience great success to boost her self-confidence. You want to eliminate all tears and have her enjoy math.

[Another Lynn]

I agree with 8.  

But, if you want to stick with CLE or go back to it....  I wonder if she would enjoy reading the lesson first to herself and then having you go over it, work problems together?  Maybe it would feel less new, less stressful to her if she has taken a peak at it before the "lesson time."  

[lmrich]

21 minutes ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

I would probably put away the CLE books for now and take an alternative approach to math for the rest of this yr and then try I think again in a few months. Maybe you could try a few of the MM topical books. https://www.mathmammoth.com/blue-series.php I would go for a level where she will experience great success to boost her self-confidence. You want to eliminate all tears and have her enjoy math.

THIS!!!

Review an old level. Have her play math games. She can make math games for her siblings. If you feel you must proceed with CLE, go at a much slower pace for a bit.  

Start making math fun by celebrating Pi day on Thursday. Visit the library and check out some math picture books to read. Look up math games with cards or with dice and enjoy it with your dd. 

[mumto2]

Totally agree with everyone else.  You need to find something new for her to do today that she will enjoy today,  the math game is aa great idea.  I always used two curriculums and one would simply disappear for a while if something about it was causing frustration.  CLE simply moves to the background and and perhaps something different takes its place.  If you can find something else that introduces short division like a library book great,  but go back to the CLE without drama when the time feels right......for us it was normally two or so.

[smfmommy]

The Number Devil is perfect for this age.  Just let her read it instead of math time.  She could also play math war with younger siblings (they can have a cheat sheet if needed).

[mykidsrmyjoy]

5 hours ago, square_25 said:

Over the years, I’ve seen a lot of math phobia due to students not forming good conceptual models and plowing ahead anyway. The longer a kid spends doing that, the more arbitrary and pointless math starts to seem. Luckily, grade 5 is an age at which it’s not so hard to go back and fix this :-).

 

I honestly wonder if this is the root of her problem. I think a lot of times she can do the procedure to get the right answer but she doesn't always seem to understand the why behind the answer. 

Thank you all for your perspectives. I know I need to hear that it is fine to slow down, but how do you do that and not get "behind"? 

[8filltheheart]

1 minute ago, mykidsrmyjoy said:

I honestly wonder if this is the root of her problem. I think a lot of times she can do the procedure to get the right answer but she doesn't always seem to understand the why behind the answer. 

Thank you all for your perspectives. I know I need to hear that it is fine to slow down, but how do you do that and not get "behind"? 

Behind is relative and progress depends on a solid foundation.

If you continue forward without solidifying the base, progression through higher level math (alg up) will be difficult and a slog. Students who don't understand the processes that they are using typically flounder in upper level math courses.  So, eventually they will "slow down" simply due to the crumbling of their base. Whereas students who understand what they are doing tend to move through upper level math classes without significant struggles bc they possess the skills required.

[kristin0713]

 

Quote

 

I know I need to hear that it is fine to slow down, but how do you do that and not get "behind"? 

 

 

 

EDITED TO ADD:  I don't know why this font is so tiny!  And I can't fix it, sorry!!

 

She is 9 and doing 5th grade work.  You don't need to worry about her getting behind.  It could be that she hit a developmental wall with math and just needs to park there for awhile.  FWIW,  I love CLE.  My DD is using it now for 7th and I wish I had put her in it YEARS ago.  The new information is in such small bites and there is so much review.  I just love it!  But I definitely think you should take a break from progressing through the books, do math games, and practice any skills she struggles with.  Math Mammoth single topic downloads are cheap and FABULOUS for targeting specific skills/concepts.  And they might fill in some of the conceptual gaps as well.  You can pick up CLE again when she's a little older and she'll still be completely on grade level.  

 

One more thing that might help--my daughter does the new skills last in CLE.  She goes through the review and does everything she can, then asks me for help with the new material.  It boosts her confidence to start out with stuff she knows each time.  

Edited March 12, 2019 by kristin0713

[RenaInTexas]

Have you tried to approach new concepts as an extension of old concepts; making each new lesson an extension of the prior lesson instead of something new altogether? I haven't seen CLE but perhaps she needs lessons that are incremental - small increments. Often my students don't even know we are in a new lesson because I start every lesson as a review and then we natural extend the material into new concepts. Before they know what has happened, we've covered the next lesson. I use a discovery style of presenting though which lends itself to a gradual release of new concepts.

Taking a break is a good idea, but if the delivery of the math instruction is a problem, then the stress will return once the break is over.

Just an idea that may or may not help.

[Hunter]

5 hours ago, mykidsrmyjoy said:

 I know I need to hear that it is fine to slow down, but how do you do that and not get "behind"? 

 

A lot of students get "behind". To not get behind, a student is supposed to perform at a competitive level that only a minority of students manage. The majority of students are labeled failures, along with their parents, teachers and curriculum writers. I am not convinced that the majority of students, parents, teachers, and curriculum writers are failing, year after year, decade after decade, and now, century after century. You can find books written in the 1800's that bemoan the failure of the majority of students.

Maybe the expectations are the problem.

If the fault IS with the expectations, what is a parent to do in the middle of an "the emperor is not wearing any clothes" scenario?

Some parents are calmed by looking at the number of students that take remedial math at the local community college and seeing that the book they use starts with a review of addition. Others are only frightened to see that, and what the graduation rates are for those students.

Are unrealistic expectations just a ploy to create artificial scarcity? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_scarcity

I'm deeply tired tonight and debating is the very last thing I would enjoy. I often prefer to talk TOPICS than address an OP directly, but mykidsrmyjoy, I'm just responding to you, tonight. I do not know your worldview and belief system, but pull back to that. Take a long hard look at expectations and measure them and prioritize them and find context in the biggest picture possible and in YOUR beliefs, before narrowing back into what a 9 year old "should" know and WHO is making that determination and WHY.

May you be blessed by whatever you believe in.

 

[kristin0713]

19 minutes ago, RenaInTexas said:

I haven't seen CLE but perhaps she needs lessons that are incremental - small increments.

 

CLE is extremely incremental with lots of review.  It really sounds like the student needs to park for awhile and solidify everything.  

[Farrar]

In terms of getting "behind" - I think it helps to understand that many, many students spend most of 6th-8th grade solidifying and reviewing elementary math concepts while only adding a smallish amount of new information. Even if you were to get a whole year "behind" then you could potentially still have her in algebra by 9th grade, which is absolutely still on track. You might not be able to do that and still do CLE. But you might.

Totally agreed with everything 8fillstheheart said. Get the joy back. Play some games. Look at the Right Start games kit - they're great. Look at Muggins and Rat-a-Tat-Cat and Zeus on the Loose. Look at books like Let's Play Math and Family Math. Look at fun project books like The Book of Perfectly Perilous Maths. Look at read alouds like The Number Devil and all the Murderous Maths books.

Also, if you really want to back up and try to look at concepts, Miquon is a really good, very different way to do this. The Education Unboxed videos can help you understand how to use the C-rods. Miquon's thread system can help you run through concepts with an older student more rapidly.