blessedmom3 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 My 10th grader is heartbroken. He is dual-enrolled and took his midterm in Trigonometry and got a 60%. He said he thought he was allowed to take a formula sheet in the exam room, but he did not read correctly the instructions on his course portal that the only sheet allowed is the one provided by the professor. So they did not allow him to bring in his own sheet and without the formulas he bombed the test. He has been in DE for three semesters and his GPA is 4.0; He has high goals for his future, including highly competitive universities. He did very well in Trigonometry until now and has only 90’s, but with the midterm being worth 100 points, his grade now is 64%. Even if he gets a 100% in the final and over 90s in homework and tests, he will barely pull a C. So my question is, should he withdraw from the class so his GPA won’t be affected? Will they mark his transcript with a W and is this really bad for college admission? Should he write his professor explaining that he wasn’t aware about the college’s policy ( about allowing only their sheet) ? And is there anything the professor can do about that, i.e. is there any way to re-take the midterm or maybe do extra credit? He understands the concepts very well, but has a hard time memorizing all the formulas. He just wasn’t sure which formulas are required to memorize and for which ones you can use a sheet? He is really upset about that and he even said he has no purpose for living!!!! I am considering bringing him to a counselor. He is very perfectionistic and was always a high achiever, so this grade affects him deeply. I told him that he is more than a grade and I try to comfort him...but he keeps saying that he is not smart enough to memorize all the formulas and that he is a failure. I am so desperate and I don’t know how to help him. I am also upset that he hasn’t ask the professor before what exactly he can bring in the exam room, but of course I don’t want to throw that at him now... Any other advice/ thoughts? ( and excuse my poor writing, English is not my first language) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 (edited) Look at the college's calendar to see if when the last day to withdraw with a W is. I would definitely have him take the W rather than the hit to his GPA. In fact, this is exactly what my older son did in a Calc 3 class when it became obvious that he would be getting a very bad grade. As far as I can tell, the W made no difference with colleges. My son got in to 4/5 schools he applied to and was waitlisted at the 5th. Edited March 10, 2019 by EKS 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessedmom3 Posted March 10, 2019 Author Share Posted March 10, 2019 Just looked...the deadline for W has already passed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa B Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, blessedmom3 said: Just looked...the deadline for W has already passed. Are you certain final withdrawal has passed and not just withdrawal with reimbursement? Final withdrawal (receive a W but no money refunded) is usually after midterms and closer to the end of the semester for this very reason. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freesia Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 It is possible that the final exam—if cumulative—would or could count more for the grade. I had that experience once when I went through a bad break up in the middle of term so did poorly on some exams. I got a 97 on the final and was given an A for the class. The teacher saw that those grades had been outliers. I think he should speak to the professor— not to give excuses, but to explain and ask if there is a way to make up the grade. I also think there are blessings in perfectionist students getting low grades. It’s tough to keep them in perspective if you never experience them. One of my favorite parenting books for teens called The Blessings of a B- . Also, I think your idea of counseling is a good one (I am also a high achieving perfectionist). He likely has some unhealthy thought patterns going on (the no purpose to live statement shows this.)I am a big believer in counseling (preferably Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) and think mental health should be treated like physical health. Sometimes you need tune ups. He may be strong in work ethic, but he needs to know it’s good to spend time shoring up his weaknesses, too. Being able to ride the tide of failure is actually more important than an Ivy League education ( and I say this as someone whose family is full of Ivy League grads.) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokotg Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Ws can be a problem for financial aid if there are too many of them (if they're too high a percentage of total classes taken), but one mixed in with a bunch of completed classes shouldn't be a problem. Has he been to class since the grade came in? It's possible many students did badly on the test and the prof will offer some sort of extra credit opportunities. I have a perfectionist kid, too; it's so tough! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 35 minutes ago, Melissa B said: Are you certain final withdrawal has passed and not just withdrawal with reimbursement? Final withdrawal (receive a W but no money refunded) is usually after midterms and closer to the end of the semester for this very reason. Yes, you should still be able to withdraw with a W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 The "no purpose to live" is really concerning, over a grade that is not actually that horrible. I would definitely recommend counseling. As far as the class, I would go to the next class and see what the professor says. Sometimes the final will be weighed more heavily if students improve, or sometimes the professor may offer a chance to rewrite for some of the points back. This would be offered to the whole class. I would not ask for "is there any extra credit I can do" though. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessedmom3 Posted March 10, 2019 Author Share Posted March 10, 2019 Thank you all. He said he will write an email to the professor tonight and see what happens. His class is always online, except for the exams, so he cannot meet the professor unless he makes an appointment with her. I looked at his previous scores and they are all way above class average, but these count only 5-25 points, while each mid and final count as 100. Maybe if the professor looks at his grades, she can see that he works hard and he understands the material and maybe she will find a way to improve his grade. The school’s calendar says the withdrawal for this class was in Feb 14th. It started in Jan 5th. We are in a state where dual enrollment and books are free. He will also call the advisor tomorrow and ask what it is best for him to do. Both my husband and I talked to him today and tried to encourage him but he is still very depressed. This is a good learning opportunity for him to not only make sure that he follows instructions, asks questions instead of assuming, and most importantly, I want him to learn that it is not all about grades. I hope he gets it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madteaparty Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 If a C is really on the horizon, can he switch the grade to Pass/Fail, if he really can’t withdraw? There’s a student-elected satisfactory/non satisfactory option here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 12 minutes ago, madteaparty said: If a C is really on the horizon, can he switch the grade to Pass/Fail, if he really can’t withdraw? There’s a student-elected satisfactory/non satisfactory option here. I'm not sure that would be all that helpful bc many schools just replace a P with a C to generate their admissions' GPA based on their own formula. Does the school allow grade replacement?? If it does, he might be able to repeat the course next semester and have next semester's grade replace this semester's grade. That is a school by school policy, though. So, no simple answer there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madteaparty Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, 8FillTheHeart said: I'm not sure that would be all that helpful bc many schools just replace a P with a C to generate their admissions' GPA based on their own formula. Are you sure this is the case? I don’t know, I’m asking. there’s so many enrichment type summer programs that come with college credit. I image that credit would be pass/fail, because there’s barely a basis to decide a grade, I’d think. If the class is inherently pass/fail, then how would a college adcom assign a C? There’s also quite a few high schools that don’t assign letter grades at all... I’m actually in the process of finding out, if I can, what’s the deal with this, because I’m not interested in random summer camps turning to Cs.... Edited March 11, 2019 by madteaparty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, madteaparty said: Are you sure this is the case? I don’t know, I’m asking. there’s so many enrichment type summer programs that come with college credit. I image that credit would be pass/fail, because there’s barely a basis to decide a grade, I’d think. If the class is inherently pass/fail, then how would a college adcom assign a C? There’s also quite a few high schools that don’t assign letter grades at all... I’m actually in the process of finding out, if I can, what’s the deal with this, because I’m not interested in random summer camps turning to Cs.... It does happen, but it is dependent on how U's calculate their own GPAs. Typically, that means they are focusing in on core course requirements and removing all other classes from the GPA. A few yrs ago there was a student who was rejected from UVA who by all measure should have been admitted. They inquired what led to the rejection and found out it was bc the transcript they submitted had grades of P bc they didn't assign grades and worked for mastery. Admissions told them they converted all P grades to Cs for calculating GPA. Do all schools do that? No idea, but apparently some do. Edited March 11, 2019 by 8FillTheHeart 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
................... Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 1. This speech is definitely showing and unhealthy thought-life, I would definitely get him some counseling regardless of how this specific situation turns out ((hugs)) While teens do sometimes spout things out that they really mean, in the heat of the moment, this sounds like a thought-pattern for him, which definitley needs to change. 2. He needs to go talk to the professor, humbly and talk about his possibilities. Without making excuses for himself, and admitting he just didn't memorize the stuff he should have, etc. But to ask the professor to help him decide if he should take a W or not. 3. I am feeling very sure that you need to check your W date again...there is a Withdrawal with refund and no W, then some colleges have W with a refund and then W with no refund. Usually the last dates to Withdraw and get a W are after the mid-terms, as someone said, for this very reason. At my son's school it's 3 weeks before the close of the class! Maybe all schools aren't so generous but I would be shocked if your W window has passed! ((hugs)) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madteaparty Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Calming Tea said: 3. I am feeling very sure that you need to check your W date again...there is a Withdrawal with refund and no W, then some colleges have W with a refund and then W with no refund. Usually the last dates to Withdraw and get a W are after the mid-terms, as someone said, for this very reason. At my son's school it's 3 weeks before the close of the class! Maybe all schools aren't so generous but I would be shocked if your W window has passed! ((hugs)) I also keep thinking about this. Pls double check. I know add drop is long gone but it surely can’t be you can’t withdraw without a W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 (edited) 48 minutes ago, madteaparty said: I also keep thinking about this. Pls double check. I know add drop is long gone but it surely can’t be you can’t withdraw without a W. I just looked at my dd's academic calendar. March 4 was the last day to drop without a WF. A WF means an F is factored into your GPA. Feb 14th, otoh, seems incredibly early and I do wonder if they are looking at the right dates. This school's w period may still be available. It is definitely right to check!!!! But it still could have passed. Edited March 11, 2019 by 8FillTheHeart 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
................... Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said: I just looked at my dd's academic calendar. March 4 was the last day to drop without a WF. A WF means an F is factored into your GPA. Feb 14th, otoh, seems incredibly early and I do wonder if they are looking at the right dates. This school's w period may still be available. It is definitely right to check!!!! But it still could have passed. Is that Berkeley or USC? It seems community colleges are much more generous with their withdrawal dates. 🙂 Edited March 11, 2019 by Calming Tea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 USC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) As long as it is before the withdraw date, he can withdraw without explanation for any reason whatsoever. If he is looking at very competitive colleges, I would withdraw rather than take the hit, if he finds it is not recoverable after talking with the prof. If the withdraw date has passed, a dean can override that and make sure it says W-Passing on the transcript. That's sometimes a difficult thing to squeeze out of a dean, but it's worth a shot. Barring that, I would ask about the re-take option and see if it replaces the original grade. Edited March 12, 2019 by Reefgazer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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