Escaping an abusive relationship

[Katy]

Because personal threads on such topics are often closed for obvious reasons, I thought I would start a more generic thread.  Especially re financial abuse.  How do you hide money when you're preparing to leave?  Here's one article I found interesting:

https://www.thepennyhoarder.com/life/wellness/leaving-an-abusive-relationship/

[Rosie_0801]

First things first. 

Should you leave?

What are the custody laws like in your area? Certain types of abusers will try for custody and they can win. 

[Katy]

27 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

First things first. 

Should you leave?

What are the custody laws like in your area? Certain types of abusers will try for custody and they can win. 

 

I hate that I can't like your posts Rosie.

[Rosie_0801]

Just now, Katy said:

 

I hate that I can't like your posts Rosie.

 

It's not a very likeable post, that one. 😞

[Anne]

1 minute ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

It's not a very likeable post, that one. 😞

No, it’s a sad commentary on the way things are - but it was an important thing to post!!

 

Anne

[maize]

35 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

First things first. 

Should you leave?

What are the custody laws like in your area? Certain types of abusers will try for custody and they can win. 

With this in mind, maybe we should also consider how to survive/mitigate the negative effects of remaining with a partner who is abusive in any way.

How to build/maintain one's own support network.

How to establish some workable boundaries/carve out some space for one's own life.

How to protect children/enable their healthy development.

Not being entirely dependent financially seems to be one starting place.

[Guest]

Thanks for starting this thread. I think it is an important topic. 

[Guest]

Quote

How to build/maintain one's own support network.

Yes. An important, frequent feature of controlling relationships is the controller seeks to isolate the person they wish to control. They rightly know that a woman with a strong network of (her own) friends and associates is harder to keep under their thumb. 

So, join the book club, do the cooking club, have the part time job, be in a women’s group at church, join the community choir...whatever. Have things apart from your mate. 

[Rosie_0801]

11 minutes ago, maize said:

Not being entirely dependent financially seems to be one starting place.

 

Emotional detachment is necessary.

[Rosie_0801]

7 minutes ago, Quill said:

Yes. An important, frequent feature of controlling relationships is the controller seeks to isolate the person they wish to control. They rightly know that a woman with a strong network of (her own) friends and associates is harder to keep under their thumb. 

So, join the book club, do the cooking club, have the part time job, be in a women’s group at church, join the community choir...whatever. Have things apart from your mate. 

 

I would be interested to hear if that has worked for people.

[AbcdeDooDah]

nm

Edited December 1, 2019 by AbcdeDooDah

[Liz CA]

19 minutes ago, Quill said:

Yes. An important, frequent feature of controlling relationships is the controller seeks to isolate the person they wish to control. They rightly know that a woman with a strong network of (her own) friends and associates is harder to keep under their thumb. 

So, join the book club, do the cooking club, have the part time job, be in a women’s group at church, join the community choir...whatever. Have things apart from your mate. 

 

12 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

I would be interested to hear if that has worked for people.

 

This is what is frequently recommended to those who wish to stay in a marriage that is not physically abusive but realize there are other unhealthy dynamics. Just being with people who love you, support you or with whom you can have fun without second guessing every word or action is a freeing experience for those who come from abusive backgrounds. Also, if the situation gets to a point where a person needs to leave, having more support around you never hurts. A network of people have greater resources than one. 

[Annie G]

8 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

I would be interested to hear if that has worked for people.

It worked for me 35 years ago because now ex dh was having affairs and was happy for me to be occupied so he could go meet his girls. It also gave me some courage to stand up to his abuse because I had connections and places to go if I needed to flee.  I will admit that I had it easier than most because when I finally gave up on the marriage he willingly let me divorce him and moved on to his girlfriend.  So in my case the guy wasn’t a control freak, he just had a nasty temper. 

[Liz CA]

2 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Maybe, but for me it has escalated things. I started taking online classes: "You're just taking classes to avoid spending time with me."

Was planning g on going ziplining with my mom: "If you go it means you don't love me"

Out to lunch/shopping/etc.:" Whyvare you spending so much time on hair and makeup? You dont do that for me"

Cleaned the long overdue car out before I left for a day out my myself: " You must be expecting a passenger."

*sigh*

 

You describe a fearful controller. Some responses with boundaries could be: " I am sorry you feel unloved when I spend some time with my mother. How about getting into a men's group, counseling, talking to pastor, etc to address this issue. This must be a very uncomfortable feeling for you."

Similar responses  to hair and makeup and car cleaning situations. 

Now, if a spouse has previously been betrayed and needs extra assurance that everything is okay, I would agree to him checking phone or whatever until they have worked on the issue and feel more secure. But a key thing is working on the issue, growing healthier and not stagnating in the fearful, controlling stage.

[Rosie_0801]

8 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

 

 

This is what is frequently recommended to those who wish to stay in a marriage that is not physically abusive but realize there are other unhealthy dynamics. Just being with people who love you, support you or with whom you can have fun without second guessing every word or action is a freeing experience for those who come from abusive backgrounds. Also, if the situation gets to a point where a person needs to leave, having more support around you never hurts. A network of people have greater resources than one. 

 

I have a lot of experience with "frequently recommended." 🙂

[AbcdeDooDah]

nm

 

Edited December 1, 2019 by AbcdeDooDah

[Liz CA]

7 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Developing my boundaries has apparently turned me into a rude bitch. Lol. 

Saying those kinds of things gets, "Don't use your psychobabble on me." 

 

 

Which means you have set some boundaries that the boundary buster in your life dislikes. Keep the course, be kind but firm. Not an easy thing to do. Encourage his growth and admit that you are also looking for areas in which you need help, growth, etc. 

ETA: Those statements are desperate attacks in hopes to derail you from standing by your boundaries so the fearful controller can continue to control. 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Liz CA

[Liz CA]

12 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

I have a lot of experience with "frequently recommended." 🙂

 

Without getting too personal and specific, what areas of getting a support network, meeting friends, etc. seems unproductive? Of course, the abusive person is not going to encourage relationships outside of the abusive one but support and friends seem to be exactly what an otherwise isolated person needs to find their voice or to stand up for their basic human rights.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Liz CA

[Scarlett]

I think the tricky thing about all of this is not all abusive people are the same.  Some are bullies who will back down immediately when someone stands up to them.  Others are like wild animals backed into a corner and will lash out BADLY when crossed in any way.  I think it is very difficult to give across the board advice. 

I stayed with my now XH for a long time because I could not bear the thought of having to send our son off with him and whatever new girlfriend might be in his life.  It worked because I had almost 10 years with ds having a fairly stable life with me while now XH was out running around doing whatever he wanted.  

I also encourage people to never let themselves feel trapped because that breeds despair and despair makes it difficult to function. But the truth is sometimes people ARE trapped. It is a sucky reality.

[Scarlett]

One thing I know that I did was to make sure I was as above reproach as humanly possible.  I gave him NOTHING to use against me.  He still tried of course but I had a lot of community support and I also had evidence of his despicable behavior.  

[J-rap]

28 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

I would be interested to hear if that has worked for people.

I think it CAN work...  I've seen it work, as a first step.  (Finding some connections outside of the home.)  I've posted just a bit about my friend before, but my friend was in a horrible abusive, controlling, completely isolated relationship, where she and their many children were victims.  She had been a close childhood friend who I had been out of contact with for many years (and she lived across the country from me).  One day out of the blue, I received a frantic call from her, the first time she was able to get to a phone by herself in over 15 years.  It was a very, very complicated situation, one where we could see the husband would be able to spin everything in his favor.  One of the first things she did was get a part-time job.  She had to have a lot of courage to do that but it happened to be a time when they desperately needed the money, and she took a stand and said she was going to work.  That was her first real consistent link to the world again.  It was the beginning of her path out.  Her situation was extreme.  The next thing we did was:  open up a P.O. box at the  post office near her work place, open up a bank account in her name only, and eventually, get a county advocate for women involved.  One step at a time.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, StellaM said:

I am pretty sure the Freedom program is available online. UK based.

https://freedomprogramme.co.uk/online.php

Sometimes you need some help seeing things clearly before you can emotionally disengage.

 

Yes.  I didn't read the link above, but your post reminded me that I had found a great on line support forum and they literally walked me through what was probably happening and what would probably happen.  It was very helpful to my sanity to know he was in many ways a textbook case. 

[Rosie_0801]

9 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

 

Without getting too personal and specific, what areas of getting a support network, meeting friends, etc. seems unproductive? Of course, the abusive person is not going to encourage relationships outside of the abusive one but support and friends seem to be exactly what an otherwise isolated person needs to find their voice or to stand up for their basic human rights.

 

Not so much unproductive as irrelevant. As some have said, it depends what kind of abuser you are dealing with.
 

[Rosie_0801]

2 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

Yes!  Because you can end up utterly snowed by the person who is abusing you. 

And when someone else says 'oh, that's just the script...here, I bet they said this and did this first, and now they're doing and saying this' you suddenly realise - oh, hey, maybe it's not me!

 

Oh! This has a name! And I can google it!

[Scarlett]

Also, I did a fair amount of detaching and not letting him see any of my cards.  To this day I have never told him many things I found out about him.  That is another thing I learned from the marriage forum I was on.  How to stop talking, how to learn to cut through the BS and respond ONLY if a response was actually required.  I learned how to respond in 5 words or less.  I learned that silence was often the best response.  The more I implemented these things the less intel he had to work with in order to get to me.  

[TechWife]

17 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

 

Without getting too personal and specific, what areas of getting a support network, meeting friends, etc. seems unproductive? Of course, the abusive person is not going to encourage relationships outside of the abusive one but support and friends seem to be exactly what an otherwise isolated person needs to find their voice or to stand up for their basic human rights.

An abusive person can make it impossible for his/her victim to do these things. Abusers isolate and their victims run great risks to develop friendships. The risks may be to them personally, but could include their children. Joining a book club because you enjoy reading and want to meet people is not easy when you know you or your children could get beaten for doing it. Every outside contact represents a loss of control to the abuser, a loss of power. Abusers will do what it takes to maintain control and power.

 

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Maybe, but for me it has escalated things. I started taking online classes: "You're just taking classes to avoid spending time with me."

Was planning g on going ziplining with my mom: "If you go it means you don't love me"

Out to lunch/shopping/etc.:" Whyvare you spending so much time on hair and makeup? You dont do that for me"

Cleaned the long overdue car out before I left for a day out my myself: " You must be expecting a passenger."

*sigh*

That happened to me, too. It was the catalyst to me realizing this was going nowhere good. It’s certainly a difference, though, in that I was not married and had no kids. It was much easier to cut my losses. 

[Liz CA]

7 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

Not so much unproductive as irrelevant. As some have said, it depends what kind of abuser you are dealing with.
 

 

Yes, it can be without any apparent results or irrelevant. Some people don't want to learn or grow and a person may be in a relationship for kids' sake or whatever reason and this is the only reason they are in the relationship. However, I still think outside activities and friends are always healthy even if it's irrelevant / not improving the abusive relationship. Is this what you meant ir did I misunderstand?

6 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

Oh! This has a name! And I can google it!

 

😂🤣

[Liz CA]

3 minutes ago, TechWife said:

An abusive person can make it impossible for his/her victim to do these things. Abusers isolate and their victims run great risks to develop friendships. The risks may be to them personally, but could include their children. Joining a book club because you enjoy reading and want to meet people is not easy when you know you or your children could get beaten for doing it. Every outside contact represents a loss of control to the abuser, a loss of power. Abusers will do what it takes to maintain control and power.

 

 

Yes, indeed! But IMHO, this crosses over into another level of abuse. If you feel the threat of physical abuse, the whole picture changes. My comments were more geared for those who are in an unsatisfying relationship but are biding their time until kids are grown or have other reasons to stay, however, still want to build some kind of life and enjoy friendships and get all the "good community" love and support that way.

[Rosie_0801]

6 minutes ago, StellaM said:

Yes. If you are dealing with a verbal and emotional abuser who has never entered the realm of physical abuse, or financial abuse, you are going to have options that the person dealing with extreme financial or physical coercion doesn't have....if you can access your motivation to use those options, because after all, you've spent years being told how hopeless you are. Sigh.

Abuse is so insidious.

 

I've had women tell me they were the lucky ones *because they were physically abused.*
Words people shouldn't have to think, let alone have cause to say.

Maybe it's better to talk about how other people can make the environment one in which an abused person has more options ? Idk.

I guess it depends what kind of abuser and whether someone is trying to stay or leave. 
Our brains like to minimise to help us cope. Other people's brains can be useful for reminding us when our brains are doing that at unhelpful times.
There are certainly myths that need to be busted. 
 

[TechWife]

Just now, StellaM said:

I am sorry to sound defeatist in this convo.

Women do leave, and many go on to live happy lives.

It is possible to leave an abuser.

I'm just feeling existential despair - everyone out celebrating IWD yesterday, but yet again, it was just another week where a woman was stabbed to death by the man she left, and her body left in a suitcase. 

 

If it helps, you don't sound defeated to me, you sound realistic. When one is in an abusive relationship I don't think  "join a book club" is helpful advice.

Instead, it would be more along the lines of:

knowing where the women's shelters are

having a cell phone that the abuser knows nothing about so you can call for help

an escape plan

Advice on a forum like this is good, but tapping the resources of local, boots on the ground is invaluable because they can help with all of that. I've often heard people complain that they are asked "Do you feel safe at home" when they are at the doctors office, or complain that they are separated from their husband when they go do the ED with a broken wrist. This is why those questions are asked and why those separations occur. A victim may not admit they don't feel safe the first time they are asked, but they might the 100th.

 

[TechWife]

4 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

 

Yes, indeed! But IMHO, this crosses over into another level of abuse. If you feel the threat of physical abuse, the whole picture changes. My comments were more geared for those who are in an unsatisfying relationship but are biding their time until kids are grown or have other reasons to stay, however, still want to build some kind of life and enjoy friendships and get all the "good community" love and support that way.

Ah, I understood that the thread was about abusive relationships, not unsatisfying relationships. Two entirely different things.

[Jaybee]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

Yes. An important, frequent feature of controlling relationships is the controller seeks to isolate the person they wish to control. They rightly know that a woman with a strong network of (her own) friends and associates is harder to keep under their thumb. 

So, join the book club, do the cooking club, have the part time job, be in a women’s group at church, join the community choir...whatever. Have things apart from your mate. 

I don't know about the abused person and how this works, but as a woman in a very healthy relationship, I find this important for me. Not that I have any desire to not be with my mate, but I have a lot of interests, and find I enjoy having little groups of people in my life that are totally separate from each other. It helps me be more well-rounded and happier in general. (And trust me, I am very well rounded--in the other sense of the word. :P) That's even said as a introvert.

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

I would be interested to hear if that has worked for people.

I was told by an abuser that once he was married to my friend that she would no longer need my friendship.  I remained her friend anyway and many years down the line helped her to leave.  It took sneaking phone calls when he was at work.  (I had warned her before marriage that this was an isolation tactic and that he was showing all sorts of flags for an abuser but she didn't believe me.) 

He controlled her financially by forcing her to quit work and after 20 years at home, her certifications had expired.  My husband I directly paid for her to renew her work certifications when she finally chose to leave.  That way he could not get control of the money.  She paid us back once she was working - no interest. 

[TechWife]

Just now, StellaM said:

If you are being financially controlled, getting your hands on a cell phone  might be as impossible as going to the Moon.  So how do we get the cell phone into her hands ?

 

I know some women's abuse centers will provide cell phones, for those victims the trick is hiding it from the abuser. The biggest obstacle would be convincing the victim to go to the center for help, though. It's a lot of work and it's long term work to help the abused.  Too many of us want an easy fix, but nothing about abuse is easy.

I think some of it is personal commitment, too. Am I, as an average woman, willing to go out of the way for a friend or acquaintance to buy an inexpensive trac phone and load it with minutes for them so that it doesn't show up in any of their financial records and tip of the abuser?

 

[Liz CA]

15 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Ah, I understood that the thread was about abusive relationships, not unsatisfying relationships. Two entirely different things.

 

I realize Katy called the thread "abusive relationships" but I responded to a post that talked more about emotionally controlling / unsatisfying relationships and the value of having outside support, friendships, etc.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Liz CA

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, TechWife said:

An abusive person can make it impossible for his/her victim to do these things. Abusers isolate and their victims run great risks to develop friendships. The risks may be to them personally, but could include their children. Joining a book club because you enjoy reading and want to meet people is not easy when you know you or your children could get beaten for doing it. Every outside contact represents a loss of control to the abuser, a loss of power. Abusers will do what it takes to maintain control and power.

 

I understand that, but of course not all options in this thread will work well for all people. I wasn’t thinking of a seriously desparate situation when I posted that idea. 

I was in a controlling, but not physically abusive, relationship. He definitely hated it whenever he lost some power. When I took a job at a law firm in the city, he hated that. (Prior to that, we worked in the same office.) He couldn’t “surprise” me with a lunch visit because it was too complicated. All day long, I would be around “competition” whom he could not control. What if I meet someone? (That was a precient worry, it turnsout, because I met DH.) 

For me, breaking out of isolation was the path out. Although, as I said, I did not have kids, was not married, and did not think he would harm me, though it was within the realm of possibility. 

[Liz CA]

2 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I was told by an abuser that once he was married to my friend that she would no longer need my friendship.  I remained her friend anyway and many years down the line helped her to leave.  It took sneaking phone calls when he was at work.  (I had warned her before marriage that this was an isolation tactic and that he was showing all sorts of flags for an abuser but she didn't believe me.) 

He controlled her financially by forcing her to quit work and after 20 years at home, her certifications had expired.  My husband I directly paid for her to renew her work certifications when she finally chose to leave.  That way he could not get control of the money.  She paid us back once she was working - no interest. 

 

Ah, bless you and your dh, Jean. This is what friends are for and this is why I think it's important to maintain friendships.

[Rosie_0801]

6 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

 

Yes, it can be without any apparent results or irrelevant. Some people don't want to learn or grow and a person may be in a relationship for kids' sake or whatever reason and this is the only reason they are in the relationship. However, I still think outside activities and friends are always healthy even if it's irrelevant / not improving the abusive relationship. Is this what you meant ir did I misunderstand?

 

Yes, that is more or less what I meant.
But I think "some people don't want to learn or grow" is a bit harsh when we're talking about DV victims.

[Liz CA]

2 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

Yes, that is more or less what I meant.
But I think "some people don't want to learn or grow" is a bit harsh when we're talking about DV victims.

 

Oh no, no. I meant people who are emotionally controlling others are often thinking there is nothing to learn, they need not grow into more secure people and yet the spouse / partner still opts to stay for whatever reasons. I am sorry, as I am reading my post I realize it was ambiguously phrased.

[Rosie_0801]

7 minutes ago, TechWife said:

 

I think some of it is personal commitment, too. Am I, as an average woman, willing to go out of the way for a friend or acquaintance to buy an inexpensive trac phone and load it with minutes for them so that it doesn't show up in any of their financial records and tip of the abuser?

 

Do you, as an average woman, even know that stuff?
(Not a criticism. I've been through the system and I still don't know how to do it.)

[Scarlett]

8 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I was told by an abuser that once he was married to my friend that she would no longer need my friendship.  I remained her friend anyway and many years down the line helped her to leave.  It took sneaking phone calls when he was at work.  (I had warned her before marriage that this was an isolation tactic and that he was showing all sorts of flags for an abuser but she didn't believe me.) 

He controlled her financially by forcing her to quit work and after 20 years at home, her certifications had expired.  My husband I directly paid for her to renew her work certifications when she finally chose to leave.  That way he could not get control of the money.  She paid us back once she was working - no interest. 

That was a wonderful way to help her.  

[LMD]

IME, in some types of abuse, it's about having a safe place to go. A truly safe space. Being able to be out of sight, out of mind long enough for abuser to find something else to play with. With some abusers, they will hunt forever and there is no safe space. 

For us, my aunt, interstate, was a safe space. She was an angel for taking us in. For a family member, our house was a safe space, because my husband was able to provide protection for her (abuser was an absolute coward when confronted by another man, my dh knew him well enough to know that). Those connections were somewhat isolated by the abuser at that stage, but the trust that they would and could help, when that out of the blue phone call came, had been established.

 

Edited March 8, 2019 by LMD

[Rosie_0801]

1 minute ago, StellaM said:

 

That's also true. 

As an average woman, I remember reassuring friends that of course, court would see right through his abusive tactics!

Oh, what a rude awakening that was....

 

I call those "Fantine moments."

When I was young and unfraid...

[caedmyn]

Some book recommendations:

Why Does He Do That, by Lundy Bancroft

In Sheep's Clothing (for more covert types of abuse--Christian perspective but description of tactics and ways to handle them are applicable for anyone)

The Emotionally Destructive Marriage by Leslie Vernick (Christian perspective)

 

Edited October 24, 2019 by caedmyn

[caedmyn]

If someone's trying to help someone in an abusive situation, you can find and give them information about resources in your area.  Typically there will be a local DV hotline and a local DV shelter.  Some shelters only take in women after physical abuse but many will accept women in any type of abusive relationship.  There is also a national DV hotline number which can refer someone to help in their area.  Local hotlines may be able to refer to other resources such as free counseling (a local YWCA may offer this also) or free legal services.

Don't tell someone that "you would leave" or that they're hurting their kids by staying.  They know there's damage being done, and they're probably aware of and counting the potential cost of leaving and their partner getting the kids 50% of the time (or more). Just support them and help where you can and let them make that choice.  Don't expect someone to be all better after they do leave.  It takes a very long time to recover from the effects of an abusive relationship.

[Rosie_0801]

1 minute ago, caedmyn said:

  Don't expect someone to be all better after they do leave.  It takes a very long time to recover from the effects of an abusive relationship.

It's not even over until the youngest child turns 18.

[Mergath]

2 hours ago, maize said:

With this in mind, maybe we should also consider how to survive/mitigate the negative effects of remaining with a partner who is abusive in any way.

How to build/maintain one's own support network.

How to establish some workable boundaries/carve out some space for one's own life.

How to protect children/enable their healthy development.

Not being entirely dependent financially seems to be one starting place.

 

The problem is that it can be difficult to find friends who will support you when you decide to remain in an abusive relationship. There's this idea that if you remain in an abusive relationship for any reason, you are a coward who doesn't have any self-respect or love for your children, and you deserve what you get. People don't always realize that many women stay for very good reasons- usually because children are involved and custody issues are a bitch.

My dh is bipolar and was extremely abusive during his alcohol-fueled manic episodes. As we worked through the merry-go-round of finding the right med combo, I had more than a few people tell me how I was a horrible person for staying, and didn't I love myself and my children and want better, and leaving would be so easy because there's a ton of support organizations and on and on. 

I had done the math, however, and I knew that if I stayed, dh would remain on his meds, the manic episodes would be minimal and hopefully end completely, and we'd have a stable financial situation because he has a good job with employers who are sympathetic to his mental health issues.

If I left, I would have been living in poverty, dh would have gone off his meds before long and probably gotten fired eventually, and he would have likely ended up with at least fifty percent custody because he had a home and a stable job and I wouldn't have had those things.

So I could have my child in a financially secure home with one stay-at-home-parent and with a father who was abusive to me once in a while, or she could spend half of her life living with a likely unmedicated bipolar person who was also drunk constantly, and the other half living in poverty with a mom who would have to work all the time and leave her in daycare for most of her waking hours. It was a shitty decision, but I don't regret choosing to stay because it was the best thing for my child. And dh did find a med combo that worked, he hasn't had a manic episode in years, and our marriage is pretty darn good now. 

So if any of you have a friend who says, "My spouse is abusive but I'm going to stick it out," maybe listen to what he or she has to say before you roll your eyes and tell them they need to leave no matter what.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Mergath

[Carol in Cal.]

1 hour ago, Liz CA said:

 

You describe a fearful controller. Some responses with boundaries could be: " I am sorry you feel unloved when I spend some time with my mother. How about getting into a men's group, counseling, talking to pastor, etc to address this issue. This must be a very uncomfortable feeling for you."

Similar responses  to hair and makeup and car cleaning situations. 

Now, if a spouse has previously been betrayed and needs extra assurance that everything is okay, I would agree to him checking phone or whatever until they have worked on the issue and feel more secure. But a key thing is working on the issue, growing healthier and not stagnating in the fearful, controlling stage.

I dunno, although I see some logic to this I think that the guy would experience it as belittling.

I think that a perhaps more effective way to respond would be to KEEP IT LIGHT and say, "Yes, I do love my mom, and I love you more!  Let's go on a picnic tomorrow!" and just keep going.

For the car cleaning, something like, Hah, there's hardly room for ME in here let alone someone else.  Again, keeping it light and also not getting dissuaded.

Those are hard stances to take once the habit of fear has built up.  I fully and entirely recognize that, and I fully and wholeheartedly espouse putting one's safety above this.  But I think that that keeping it light and keeping on going stance is the one that establishes the best chance of normalcy down the road, whether someone stays or goes.  It's assertive, not aggressive, but not submissive either.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Carol in Cal.

[TechWife]

30 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Do you, as an average woman, even know that stuff?
(Not a criticism. I've been through the system and I still don't know how to do it.)

I do. I think I'm average in the scenario that we are talking about in that I've never been in an abusive relationship. I do currently know someone who is two years past getting her husband out of their house. I do know quite a lot about patient advocacy and some of the resources I am aware of due to that would also apply in this situation. I don't know if that is enough to throw me into the "not average" category, what do you think?

I can buy a tracphone with cash  for $25.00. Then, also with cash, I can buy an airtime card, which is a tracphone debit card, and activate & connect the phone to it.

Keeping it hidden from the abuser would be the more difficult part.