TheAttachedMama 1,292 Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) My rising 7th-grade son will probably start the AOPS Introduction to Algebra book in the fall. I hope it is OK to post on the high school forum since he isn't technically a high school student, but I figure that this is where the experts hang out. (smile) Some of the questions I have so far are... 1) Are math courses taken in middle school typically recorded on the High School Transcript? (I know I am probably going to get a lot of conflicting answers, but if anyone has any advice they want to share, I would love to hear it.) I am wondering if I need to keep particular records for this class or write a course description (YIKES!) or do anything else? 2) If your child self-taught through an AOPS book, how did you calculate the grade? What specific records do I need to keep? Are there any suggested tests I should take this year to back up my assigned "mommy grades"? 3) Would anyone want to share their course titles/descriptions if you used the AOPS books for math? For example, would I list the Intro to Algebra book as Algebra I? What about non-standard AOPS math courses like Intro to Number Theory or Intro to Counting and Probability? I will have to see how quickly he works through the book (obviously), but I am considering letting him complete just the first half of "Intro to Algebra" this year, and then focus on Number Theory or Probability. Or, I may let him focus on contest prep. 4) Should I also keep records of other math stuff my son does in middle school? (Mathcounts or other AOPS Contest prep courses for example) Or does that not matter long term? I'm just trying to avoid any pitfalls or mistakes. Edited February 28, 2019 by TheAttachedMama Link to post Share on other sites

Arcadia 22,965 Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) I did this for DS14 (9th grade) and so far the local community college and Stanford ULO didn’t complain. The superscript is for the course provider. I did not provide grades or description and they didn’t ask. Grade Level AP Exam Score Grade Credit Introduction to Geometry^{1} Intermediate Algebra^{1} Precalculus^{1} Calculus^{1} with AP Calculus BC exam Intermediate Number Theory^{1} Edited March 8, 2019 by Arcadia 3 Link to post Share on other sites

TheAttachedMama 1,292 Posted March 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 Thanks so much for sharing. That is very helpful. And wow, Arcadia, I know you know this, but your kids are amazing! So it looks like you just used the AOPS book titles for your course titles, is that correct? The book description for Intro to Algebra says, "This book can serve as a complete Algebra I course, and also includes many concepts covered in Algebra II." So perhaps Honors Algebra I? Like I said before, I am guessing that we will probably spread this book over two years and add in some other math (maybe one of the shorter AOPS books.), and I am trying to figure out how to document that. I'm not sure how much it matters for middle school. Link to post Share on other sites

EKS 14,342 Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 No AoPS here, but I put Algebra I and up on the transcript as this is what is done in the local public schools. I figure that colleges can disregard anything that they feel is irrelevant. 2 Link to post Share on other sites

Arcadia 22,965 Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, TheAttachedMama said: So it looks like you just used the AOPS book titles for your course titles, is that correct? The book description for Intro to Algebra says, "This book can serve as a complete Algebra I course, and also includes many concepts covered in Algebra II." So perhaps Honors Algebra I? This kid did attend the courses for those listed above. He did the intro to NT, Intro to C&P and Intro to Algebra by himself and has enough math credits that I didn’t put those in. There is no AoPS Intermediate Number Theory book yet. We get to count math credits from 7th grade for fulfilling high school graduation requirements for those in public school. No requirements given for private schools and homeschoolers. The weighted GPA is for grades in high school so honors designation in middle school isn’t as useful. However if you ever need to submit a middle school transcript to a lottery public high school or private school, I would just give the honors designation on the middle school transcript. I did not put contest prep courses like the 5hr AoPS course (https://artofproblemsolving.com/school/course/maa-amc8-special) my DS13 did for fun on the transcript as we don’t want to look like the Asian stereotype of being prep heavy. As for mommy assigned grades in middle school, I didn’t have any issue as the math summer camp DS14 went to had placement tests. So they told him which courses he is eligible for based on the placement test. 1 Link to post Share on other sites

kiana 11,470 Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 I wouldn't stop taking math too early and plan on counting the middle school classes. But I would put them on the transcript -- I've heard of people denied admission because "geometry" did not specifically appear on the high school transcript after having been taken in middle school. It's a lot easier to ignore information you deem irrelevant than to conjure up information you find relevant. Link to post Share on other sites

Jackie 3,180 Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 For reference, the UC system accepts the online AOPS class hat covers the first half of Intro to Algebra as Algebra 1, and the class that covers the second half of that same book as Algebra 2. Weirdly, they also could the class that covers the Intermediate Algebra book as Algebra 2, so... You can always steal course descriptions from the website. No need to reinvent the wheel. The website describes Algebra A as “Fundamental concepts of algebra, including exponents and radicals, linear equations and inequalities, ratio and proportion, systems of linear equations, factoring quadratics, complex numbers, completing the square, and the quadratic formula.” 2 Link to post Share on other sites

Arcadia 22,965 Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 14 minutes ago, Jackie said: For reference, the UC system accepts the online AOPS class hat covers the first half of Intro to Algebra as Algebra 1, and the class that covers the second half of that same book as Algebra 2. Weirdly, they also could the class that covers the Intermediate Algebra book as Algebra 2, so... AoPS is no longer on UC a-g course provider list. Link to post Share on other sites

Jackie 3,180 Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Arcadia said: AoPS is no longer on UC a-g course provider list. True enough, I should have said “did accept”. I was more responding to her plan to spread the Intro to Algebra book over two years, which matches up with what a major university system would have labeled the courses. I would also therefore assume they would still accept it as such, given that homeschoolers don’t apply as a-g anyway. Edited March 1, 2019 by Jackie Link to post Share on other sites

calbear 1,627 Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) If geometry (or any other higher math course) is completed prior to high school, you are supposed to self-report. This is the guidance from UC on that. That being said, this is the guidance, but it does not necessarily mean this is the actual answer that you will get from UC as a friend who works as a college counselor locally said she attended a UC counselor workshop and this is not what was being said at that meeting. http://www.sscs.cc/files/all_schools/guidance/UC Math Progression.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1pSA3LVRpPhPaxPIN-ZbuZkovF1-IG6s1UZ27dqhxfVYLaU1gcEQWiUQw If you are on FB (you might want to join just to access this group), I highly recommend this group. It is a goldmine of information. It is specifically for CA homeschoolers applying to college and specifcally addresses UC and CSU admissions which is highly specific if you are an in-state applicant. There are lots of experienced people on here from charter or PSA/PSP and college counselors who are in frequent contact with UC and CSU. http://www.facebook.com/groups/CollegeSeekers/ Edited March 1, 2019 by calbear Link to post Share on other sites

Roadrunner 7,292 Posted March 2, 2019 Report Share Posted March 2, 2019 No one answer here. Some split the Intro book and call it Algebra 1 and 2. I am using AoPS course names instead since mine took classes, calling it Algebra A, Algebra B, and then Intermediate Algebra. If anybody ends up being interested enough, they can find the details in course descriptions, but I am assuming the higher level courses will automatically tell them that Algebra 1 and 2 was covered. Link to post Share on other sites

Alice 8,186 Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 On 2/28/2019 at 3:26 PM, TheAttachedMama said: My rising 7th-grade son will probably start the AOPS Introduction to Algebra book in the fall. I hope it is OK to post on the high school forum since he isn't technically a high school student, but I figure that this is where the experts hang out. (smile) Some of the questions I have so far are... 1) Are math courses taken in middle school typically recorded on the High School Transcript? (I know I am probably going to get a lot of conflicting answers, but if anyone has any advice they want to share, I would love to hear it.) I am wondering if I need to keep particular records for this class or write a course description (YIKES!) or do anything else? 2) If your child self-taught through an AOPS book, how did you calculate the grade? What specific records do I need to keep? Are there any suggested tests I should take this year to back up my assigned "mommy grades"? 3) Would anyone want to share their course titles/descriptions if you used the AOPS books for math? For example, would I list the Intro to Algebra book as Algebra I? What about non-standard AOPS math courses like Intro to Number Theory or Intro to Counting and Probability? I will have to see how quickly he works through the book (obviously), but I am considering letting him complete just the first half of "Intro to Algebra" this year, and then focus on Number Theory or Probability. Or, I may let him focus on contest prep. 4) Should I also keep records of other math stuff my son does in middle school? (Mathcounts or other AOPS Contest prep courses for example) Or does that not matter long term? I'm just trying to avoid any pitfalls or mistakes. Full disclaimer: My son is in 10th grade so I don’t know yet if what I’m doing “works” as far as colleges. 🙂 1) I am putting classes he took in middle school that are standard high school level classes on the transcript. That is consistent with what the public schools here do. So for us that’s Algebra, Latin I and Intro to Counting and Probability. Around here the public schools will put higher level Math and Language classes on the transcript. I just listed it as being done in 8th grade. And didn’t use the grades to calculate GPA. I used the course descriptions on the AOPS website to explain what the classes included. 2) My son has self-taught with AOPS and wants to continue doing that. I’ve given him A’s for the classes because it is consistent with our philosophy of teaching to mastery. I assume that somewhere in the application I will include a statement about our grading policy and homeschool philosophy. I feel comfortable giving him A’s becuase he consistently gets most of the problems correct in each chapter when he works through the review problems at the end of the chapter. I know some people on here have made up tests for an end of the year review using problems through the book. For Algebra, I had a friend who teaches at a middle school give me an exam that he uses and gave it to my son at the end of the year.. I did that partially to ensure that the self-teaching method was working. 🙂 Since Algebra, I’ve been more comfortable with the approach and haven’t done that. I feel like the scores he gets on standardized tests will back up the Mommy grades. He plans on doing at least one SAT II Math test and has very good scores on the SAT Math section. He’ll also probably do AP Calculus. 3) I haven’t fully decided on this. I think currently in the transcript I have the Intro book labeled as Algebra and then in the Course description section I described it more fully. Now that he’s in Intermediate Algebra and I see how much harder it is than a standard text...I may relabel things to show that it’s not really a standard Algebra II class. 4) I kept records of things my son did in middle school that were significant and applied to his interests or continued into high school. I figure you can always leave it off but if you don’t remember it you can’t put it on. I don’t yet know what I’ll put on the final transcript but I figured it didn’t hurt to keep them. For example, he took the NLE Latin exam in middle school. I’ll probably put that in there with the other NLE scores. 1 Link to post Share on other sites

8filltheheart 34,733 Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 On 2/28/2019 at 3:26 PM, TheAttachedMama said: My rising 7th-grade son will probably start the AOPS Introduction to Algebra book in the fall. I hope it is OK to post on the high school forum since he isn't technically a high school student, but I figure that this is where the experts hang out. (smile) Some of the questions I have so far are... 1) Are math courses taken in middle school typically recorded on the High School Transcript? (I know I am probably going to get a lot of conflicting answers, but if anyone has any advice they want to share, I would love to hear it.) I am wondering if I need to keep particular records for this class or write a course description (YIKES!) or do anything else? 2) If your child self-taught through an AOPS book, how did you calculate the grade? What specific records do I need to keep? Are there any suggested tests I should take this year to back up my assigned "mommy grades"? 3) Would anyone want to share their course titles/descriptions if you used the AOPS books for math? For example, would I list the Intro to Algebra book as Algebra I? What about non-standard AOPS math courses like Intro to Number Theory or Intro to Counting and Probability? I will have to see how quickly he works through the book (obviously), but I am considering letting him complete just the first half of "Intro to Algebra" this year, and then focus on Number Theory or Probability. Or, I may let him focus on contest prep. 4) Should I also keep records of other math stuff my son does in middle school? (Mathcounts or other AOPS Contest prep courses for example) Or does that not matter long term? I'm just trying to avoid any pitfalls or mistakes. 1) I count them and put them on their transcripts with cr and grades. 2) We work for mastery, so his grades were As bc he kept going through problems until he understood how to work through them. I don't even attempt to "prove" my homeschool teacher assigned grades. They take the SAt/ACT; depending on the student, possibly a couple of subjects tests or CLEPs. 3) I labeled math courses by traditional names except intermediate alg which I * to see course descriptions since for some schools that might be something used to label a remedial course. C&P was labeled the same as the text. I used AoPS descriptions as a starting point for mine. 4) Keep high school scores, not middle school. Link to post Share on other sites

Roadrunner 7,292 Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 2 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said: 3) I labeled math courses by traditional names except intermediate alg which I * to see course descriptions since for some schools that might be something used to label a remedial course. If it’s OK, could you share (PM maybe) the title and course description you used for Intermediate Algebra? I didn’t think about it being seen as remedial. Thank you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites

8filltheheart 34,733 Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 38 minutes ago, Roadrunner said: If it’s OK, could you share (PM maybe) the title and course description you used for Intermediate Algebra? I didn’t think about it being seen as remedial. Thank you. I'd need to go and find it on our storage drive bc all of that info is wiped off my current hard-drive (ds is in grad school! No one cares about his high school transcript anymore.) The fact that he had alg 1&2 followed by another alg course could be seen negatively had not occurred to me, either, until ds was talking to a friend who was in ps taking alg 3. I knew the student was definitely not a good math student, so I started investigating. The local schools offered alg 3 for students who needed another math beyond alg 2 to graduate but were not strong enough to take pre-cal. I just remember I did NOT want that course to be taken in that context. Can't remember the details, anymore, though. 1 Link to post Share on other sites

Roadrunner 7,292 Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 59 minutes ago, 8FillTheHeart said: I'd need to go and find it on our storage drive bc all of that info is wiped off my current hard-drive (ds is in grad school! No one cares about his high school transcript anymore.) The fact that he had alg 1&2 followed by another alg course could be seen negatively had not occurred to me, either, until ds was talking to a friend who was in ps taking alg 3. I knew the student was definitely not a good math student, so I started investigating. The local schools offered alg 3 for students who needed another math beyond alg 2 to graduate but were not strong enough to take pre-cal. I just remember I did NOT want that course to be taken in that context. Can't remember the details, anymore, though. So my kid took Algebra A and B prior to 7th grade. So maybe the answer for us is to only list Intermediate Algebra and put honors designation next to it. I am basically listing content covered in the course description based on TOC. Link to post Share on other sites

GeoKitty 162 Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 So, in my notes, I have listed course titles that somewhere... maybe this forum, but I really have no idea where.... Richard Rusczyk recommends. This is just from my notes... Algebra 1, Intro to Algebra book chapters 1-11 algebra 2, Intro to Algebra book chapters 12-22 algebra 3, or Advanced Algebra with Precalculus, Intermediate Algebra book Precalculus, or Precalculus with Introductory Linear Algebra, Precalculus book 4 Link to post Share on other sites

Roadrunner 7,292 Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, GeoKitty said: So, in my notes, I have listed course titles that somewhere... maybe this forum, but I really have no idea where.... Richard Rusczyk recommends. This is just from my notes... Algebra 1, Intro to Algebra book chapters 1-11 algebra 2, Intro to Algebra book chapters 12-22 algebra 3, or Advanced Algebra with Precalculus, Intermediate Algebra book Precalculus, or Precalculus with Introductory Linear Algebra, Precalculus book Brilliant! 2 Link to post Share on other sites

daijobu 4,504 Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 On 2/28/2019 at 12:26 PM, TheAttachedMama said: 1) Are math courses taken in middle school typically recorded on the High School Transcript? 2) If your child self-taught through an AOPS book, how did you calculate the grade? Are there any suggested tests I should take this year to back up my assigned "mommy grades"? 3) Would anyone want to share their course titles/descriptions if you used the AOPS books for math? For example, would I list the Intro to Algebra book as Algebra I? What about non-standard AOPS math courses like Intro to Number Theory or Intro to Counting and Probability? 4) Should I also keep records of other math stuff my son does in middle school? (Mathcounts or other AOPS Contest prep courses for example) Or does that not matter long term? I'm just trying to avoid any pitfalls or mistakes. 1. I recorded on the transcript algebra and geometry taken in middle school in case there were any box-checkers out there who wanted to see that it was completed. However, I made it clear in the transcript that the units and grades were not counted for graduation or used to calculate GPA. 2. We didn't do very many AoPS online classes, and not for "core" math classes like algebra and geometry. I awarded A's for their classes because they had mastered the material. Also their AMC scores went up every year. I would use AMC scores to back up your grades. 3. My course titles were the same as the textbooks, but with Honors. Introduction to Algebra, Introduction to Counting and Probability, etc., because it made more sense to me. She took Intro to Algebra all at once, so it made sense to call it one class. And it's honors because it's more challenging than a typical high school class. For course descriptions, I did a quick copy/paste of the book blurb or corresponding online course description. I didn't worry too much about editing. Once I had most of the descriptions put together I lightly edited it, so everything seemed cohesive. 4. I would keep track of any online classes he takes, and also his MathCounts and AMC scores. You never know if he'll want to attend regular high school, so it's a good idea to track this stuff, and it will build good habits in high school when things start to count. For a high school transcript (and applying to colleges), you don't need to record these scores. However, if he does exceptionally well, there are ways you can work them into high college application. You can start one of your essays: "I was inspired to pursue math competitions after winning my state MathCounts championship in middle school." Subtle, no? It's a great idea to plan ahead and when in doubt, record everything. No need to make everything look perfect, but you will thank yourself later if you record your student's activities and accomplishments as you go. If you need a scaffold, I can recommend MyHomeschoolTranscripts because all you need to do is copy paste into their fields. It certainly isn't necessary, but it made my life a bit easier. 1 Link to post Share on other sites

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