When your ex remarries and you share young children

[sassenach]

I have a friend who is 1 year out from a nasty divorce. She shares 3 young kids with ex. He’s remarrying in 2 months. What is normal as far as interaction between the first wife and the stb second? She’s requesting to meet the new woman and ex is refusing. Her thing is that wife 2 is going to be around her kids and co-parenting so they should “know” each other. 

I have no clue. This is new territory for me. What’s normal/reasonable?

[Catwoman]

That’s weird.

I don’t blame her for wanting to meet the woman her kids will be living with on weekends and vacations. Do the kids know her yet?

Did the marriage end because the husband was having an affair with that same woman he’s planning to marry?

[Rosie_0801]

She needs to remember that she has no control over her ex's household, in any way, shape or form.
Normal and reasonable don't come into it.

Of course he doesn't want contact between the two women. He wants to control the information.

[SKL]

I have no experience here, but my feeling is that her demand is not justified.  I don't think a parent has to get approval from the other parent to have his kids around someone else.  I don't blame her for wanting to know more about the woman, but IMO the kids' father's approval is sufficient as long as neither he nor his stb wife has a history of child abuse.

You catch more flies with honey, so maybe she could ask nicely or use other congenial ways to arrange a meeting with the stb stepmom.

[Farrar]

In every divorce situation I know personally, the ex and the new spouse/partner have at least met for the reason she is asking. I do think it's normal and reasonable for her to ask that. I do think it's concerning that he doesn't want to allow it. I think in a practical sense that if they share custody, both attend events like birthdays and school assemblies that involve the kids, it may require some interesting jumping through hoops for these two women to somehow never lay eyes on each other. But at the same time, I don't think she can do anything about it and causing a giant fuss would not be productive for her or the kids. I think she could take a breath and know that this is apparently the divorce she has. Absent abuse that she can prove, she can't control who he introduces to their lives.

[Farrar]

10 minutes ago, SKL said:

I have no experience here, but my feeling is that her demand is not justified.  I don't think a parent has to get approval from the other parent to have his kids around someone else.  I don't blame her for wanting to know more about the woman, but IMO the kids' father's approval is sufficient as long as neither he nor his stb wife has a history of child abuse.

You catch more flies with honey, so maybe she could ask nicely or use other congenial ways to arrange a meeting with the stb stepmom.

In the cases I know of, it's not a question of approval, it's more like, ex and I co-parent and you're about to be involved in the co-parenting so let's lay eyes on each other and say hello and try to keep it cordial. This is something I know that has happened in at least a few really angry divorces that I know of. Of course, there's angry, I still hate you, but we're doing the best we can for the kids divorces and there's let's have an all out war and who gives ****** about the fallout for the kids because they're just pawns divorces. I know the latter exist, I just haven't known anyone in those personally - thank goodness.

[SKL]

5 minutes ago, Farrar said:

In the cases I know of, it's not a question of approval, it's more like, ex and I co-parent and you're about to be involved in the co-parenting so let's lay eyes on each other and say hello and try to keep it cordial. This is something I know that has happened in at least a few really angry divorces that I know of. Of course, there's angry, I still hate you, but we're doing the best we can for the kids divorces and there's let's have an all out war and who gives ****** about the fallout for the kids because they're just pawns divorces. I know the latter exist, I just haven't known anyone in those personally - thank goodness.

I don't disagree, I just don't think she can "demand" this.  She can request it and it's not an unreasonable request, but like you said before, she probably can't do anything about it if they say no.

[Wheres Toto]

It certainly would be more typical for them to at least run into each other at various events.   My oldest was 10 when I remarried and 11 when her dad remarried.  We never set up any formal meeting but we would see each other at various events.   I would think there would be even more if the kids are younger.  What are the custody arrangements, will the new wife ever handle drop-off or pick-up?  Or be the one who is home when the mom is picking them up?  What about school events?  Conferences?    I would think the dad would have to work really hard to have them never meet.  And that's just weird.  IMO.

Some of this would depend on what kind of custody arrangement they have. 

[sassenach]

To answer a few questions. Ex is a HUGE narcisist. Friend's impression is that the new lady is being duped, but she is probably pretty nice and friend doesn't have hard feelings toward the new lady.

This wasn't a cheating situation. 

It's not the new wife who is refusing to meet, it's the ex that doesn't want them to.

I do think it's going to be pretty much impossible for them never to meet. I have no idea what his plan is.

Friend wants a sit down meeting. I don't think that's the best idea.

New lady already spends every visitation weekend with the kids. He brings them there for the weekend.

One of friend's concerns is that one of her kiddos is special needs and requires a lot of special attention/consistency. Dad is sometimes neglectful of the extra supervision that this child requires. His new lady has a pool at her house and there are some concerns over supervision.

 

[Rosie_0801]

21 minutes ago, sassenach said:

To answer a few questions. Ex is a HUGE narcisist. Friend's impression is that the new lady is being duped, but she is probably pretty nice and friend doesn't have hard feelings toward the new lady.

This wasn't a cheating situation. 

It's not the new wife who is refusing to meet, it's the ex that doesn't want them to.

I do think it's going to be pretty much impossible for them never to meet. I have no idea what his plan is.

Friend wants a sit down meeting. I don't think that's the best idea.

New lady already spends every visitation weekend with the kids. He brings them there for the weekend.

One of friend's concerns is that one of her kiddos is special needs and requires a lot of special attention/consistency. Dad is sometimes neglectful of the extra supervision that this child requires. His new lady has a pool at her house and there are some concerns over supervision.

 

It's not impossible for Ex to prevent the women from meeting without his supervision. His new lady probably doesn't want to, because she's been told what a terrible person your friend is.

There's really nothing your friend can do about the supervision unless she can get court orders obliging them to have a fence built around the pool, but that doesn't prevent anyone leaving the gate open. And it's a bad idea to be in court with a narcissist. Dad has just as much right to be neglectful as he did when he and your friend were together.

[Guest]

I’m really glad this was never an issue I had to figure out. That pool thing alone...I was so afraid about pool supervision when my kids were little. I was the neurotic pool party attendee who could never have a drink and couldn’t stop counting heads in the pool...it just always seemed like the exact scenario where a tragedy was ripe to happen directly under everyone’s noses. 

[sassenach]

9 minutes ago, Thatboyofmine said:

What I would probably do is the next time the kids go to his house for the weekend, I’d send a wedding gift, maybe a card with a gift card and sweet note inside.   I’d put it in the kids’ bag on top, so the kids will see it and remember to give it to them.   After that, I’d see what happens.   A nice gesture from mom to stepmom might make the stepmom interested in getting to know mom or might at least prompt her to give mom and call and thank her.  Then mom can go from there.

She’s sooooo not there. Like I said- fresh, nasty divorce from a narcissist. If anything the card might read “you might want to run a background check ❤️“

 

[fairfarmhand]

I don’t think I’d do a wedding gift. More of a yankee candle thing in a pretty bag “hi I’m Jane! Let’s be friendly! If you want to have lunch call me at X number.”

[Farrar]

Those are all good reasons to have a sit down. In a healthy divorce, even if the parents dislike each other or are angry, I think having a special needs kiddo and a pool and all that would mean they would all sit down and talk about consistency. Some people in this thread are being a bit dismissive about wanting or feeling you need that but I think it's totally reasonable and makes complete sense. Being purposeful about meeting and consistent parenting is totally a good thing and not a silly, why would she ask for this thing at all. But it's not going to happen so your friend has to move on from that idea.

I would also say she should not try to sneak behind his back to meet her. And she should definitely stay away from trying to influence her into thinking he's a narcissist or anything along those lines. When they do meet - which seems likely to happen eventually - she should be her most normal, calm self and act like it's all fine, even if she's frustrated about a million different things. And if new wife, in that context, creates an opening for her to offer advice or suggest that they chat about parenting and consistency with the ex as well, then she should calmly take that opportunity to suggest it. Like, if new wife says, "Yeah, kid was quite a handful last weekend!" then she could say, "Kid can be. I was thinking it could be useful for ex and you and I to chat about keeping things consistent since consistency helps kid, if you're both open to it." And if she says no or ex steps in to say no (which seems pretty likely), then she has to be like, okay, I understand, and let it go. Because nothing but her best behavior is going to go over even half-decently.

[Catwoman]

39 minutes ago, sassenach said:

She’s sooooo not there. Like I said- fresh, nasty divorce from a narcissist. If anything the card might read “you might want to run a background check ❤️“

 

 

Maybe that’s what her ex is afraid of — maybe he doesn’t want to take the chance that anyone might try to talk the new woman out of marrying him.

[Junie]

My parents divorced when I was little.  My dad remarried when I was in elementary school.  I don't know that there was really any interaction or communication other than at the pick-up and drop-off.  Communication was often a game of telephone.  "Tell your mom..."  "Tell your father and stepmother..."

[Farrar]

I appreciated that my parents and their new spouses were able to sit together at my wedding, at my brother's graduation, even at dinners around those things, and be totally pleasant, even if I knew they didn't have a super high opinion of each other (to understate it a bit). But I also know people who eloped to avoid having to put their parents in the same room again. I think it is whatever it is.

[Rosie_0801]

12 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

And this is where lawyers would get involved for me.  I am not in ANY way saying I would ask lawyers to compel a meeting or anything like that.  Rather, than I would be immediately requesting specific things in the custody arrangement regarding pool safety.   I honestly don't know how much CAN be requested....which is what I would depend on my lawyer for.

 

I am the parent of a child with special needs.  At about 3yr old, this special needs child was participating in an egg hunt at my parents house for Easter.  It was April in the midwest, the pool was covered....but also the pool cover was sunken in, with lots of water.  DD was on the deck, looking for an egg, there was water in the cover and even with like 4 adults on the deck, it was still a RACE to keep her out of the pool cover.  I think DH lost 5 yrs off his life in terror.    

 

A special needs child, by definition, has needs that are *special*  That means those needs likely require special provisions in court dealings and irregardless of the second wife, if a pool enters the picture as a part of the special needs child's living situation, I think it's totally reasonable to require that the courts lay out exactly what safety measures are in place.  

 

It's a really bad idea to be in court with a narcissist, and there's not a lot of use in having orders made when there's no way to enforce them.

[Bootsie]

1 hour ago, sassenach said:

To answer a few questions. Ex is a HUGE narcisist. Friend's impression is that the new lady is being duped, but she is probably pretty nice and friend doesn't have hard feelings toward the new lady.

This wasn't a cheating situation. 

It's not the new wife who is refusing to meet, it's the ex that doesn't want them to.

I do think it's going to be pretty much impossible for them never to meet. I have no idea what his plan is.

Friend wants a sit down meeting. I don't think that's the best idea.

New lady already spends every visitation weekend with the kids. He brings them there for the weekend.

One of friend's concerns is that one of her kiddos is special needs and requires a lot of special attention/consistency. Dad is sometimes neglectful of the extra supervision that this child requires. His new lady has a pool at her house and there are some concerns over supervision.

 

If she has concerns over supervision around the pool, that is something for her to take up with her ex-husband.  This is immediately putting the new wife in a position of being with the ex-wife while the ex-wife is criticizing the parenting habits of the father.  That is not setting up a good situation for the three of them to work together long run in the best interest of the child.  This doesn't sound like "I want to meet you and get to know you."  It sounds more like, "I have concerns about my ex-husband I want to voice."

It would be great if they could meet and all work together in a cordial way to meet the best interests of the child.  However, that may not be possible given the personalities of the individuals involved.  

 

[Rosie_0801]

17 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

If it's all I have.....then it's all I have.  And I will work with ALL I HAVE, to do my very best to ensure my kid's safety.  

 

My sister dealt with a lot of custody issues with her DH's oldest.  I don't generally deal with armchair diagnosis of NPD...BPD....Whatever alphabet soup of disorders.  I have testified in court for my sister because her step son's mother straight up made things up out of thin air, and things that totally did involve me directly.  And I firmly believe that my nephew (aka my sister's step son, now a full adult) would NOT be as stable as he was if his father and step mother weren't willing to fight with every single cell and dollar they had, for his safety and well being.  They couldn't fix it all.....but I can't imagine where he would be if they had said "well there's not much use."

 

 

I'm glad life worked out so well for you and yours.

[Rosie_0801]

22 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

It certainly happens.  There's for sure no perfect solution.  We can all only work with the resources at our disposal.

Also, IIRC...you might potentially be working with a different court system than I have experience with.  

 

Court systems are double edged swords, no matter where they are located, I hear.

[sassenach]

9 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

Court systems are double edged swords, no matter where they are located, I hear.

Rosie, I’d like your posts, too, if I could. Thanks for your input. There’s no easy answers here. 

[sassenach]

10 hours ago, Bootsie said:

If she has concerns over supervision around the pool, that is something for her to take up with her ex-husband.  This is immediately putting the new wife in a position of being with the ex-wife while the ex-wife is criticizing the parenting habits of the father.  That is not setting up a good situation for the three of them to work together long run in the best interest of the child.  This doesn't sound like "I want to meet you and get to know you."  It sounds more like, "I have concerns about my ex-husband I want to voice."

It would be great if they could meet and all work together in a cordial way to meet the best interests of the child.  However, that may not be possible given the personalities of the individuals involved.  

 

This is exactly how I was feeling about the whole thing. I did recommend putting it into writing, maybe through her lawyer, a letter requesting that the pool have adequate safety gates in place. 

I have a feeling this is just the beginning. I don’t think it’ll be long before they’re back in court over custody. 

[Carrie12345]

Ugh.

Ideally, I think normal, healthy adults should interact enough to form a working relationship.  Sharing kids is a big deal!

My ex’s wife and I did attempt a quasi-friendship, but she’s a nutcase so we settled into just being polite at pick up/drop off and ds’s events.  Ex and dh had that “Hey, how are ya, take care” thing going on.

The reality was that ex’s wife and I were the ones who had to handle the most scheduling together.  It wasn’t easy, but it would have been nearly impossible as strangers.

[SKL]

So this might sound dumb, but is it any use asking the siblings to watch out for the special needs child at the pool?  I can totally understand being nervous but still powerless.

I'd also get all the kids into swimming lessons.

Pools are honestly my biggest (possibly irrational) fear.

One other thing - I would make sure stb stepmom has a copy of all the documents relating to child's diagnoses and educational plans.  This might be a heads up for her.

Edited February 21, 2019 by SKL

[kbutton]

I have zero experience with the custody stuff, just kids with some needs. What about a medical ID bracelet for the child in question that could at least make the stb stepmom take notice?

Alternatively, registration of the child needs with local emergency personnel? Here, you can register a document with EMS for your home and any places your kid spends significant time (church, etc.). When a call comes in, it will be noted that there is extra information about this person/address, and that will be relayed to EMS. I think that the ex would have little control over whether the mom files this kind of paperwork, and at least someone would know to dot i's and cross t's in an emergency.

I am also wondering if siblings would be good advocates for the child with special needs.

[sassenach]

On 2/21/2019 at 6:37 AM, SKL said:

So this might sound dumb, but is it any use asking the siblings to watch out for the special needs child at the pool?  I can totally understand being nervous but still powerless.

I'd also get all the kids into swimming lessons.

Pools are honestly my biggest (possibly irrational) fear.

One other thing - I would make sure stb stepmom has a copy of all the documents relating to child's diagnoses and educational plans.  This might be a heads up for her.

The other kids are too young to take that type of responsibility. The oldest is 8ish, sn child is 5 (but at about a 2yo level), the youngest is 3. 

[sassenach]

On 2/21/2019 at 10:02 AM, kbutton said:

I have zero experience with the custody stuff, just kids with some needs. What about a medical ID bracelet for the child in question that could at least make the stb stepmom take notice?

Alternatively, registration of the child needs with local emergency personnel? Here, you can register a document with EMS for your home and any places your kid spends significant time (church, etc.). When a call comes in, it will be noted that there is extra information about this person/address, and that will be relayed to EMS. I think that the ex would have little control over whether the mom files this kind of paperwork, and at least someone would know to dot i's and cross t's in an emergency.

I am also wondering if siblings would be good advocates for the child with special needs.

Not sure what this means. The sn child’s disabilities are completely known and blatant. He has a common dx that I’m choosing not to share just to keep identifying information minimized. 

[Liz CA]

On 2/20/2019 at 3:59 PM, SKL said:

I have no experience here, but my feeling is that her demand is not justified.  I don't think a parent has to get approval from the other parent to have his kids around someone else.  I don't blame her for wanting to know more about the woman, but IMO the kids' father's approval is sufficient as long as neither he nor his stb wife has a history of child abuse.

You catch more flies with honey, so maybe she could ask nicely or use other congenial ways to arrange a meeting with the stb stepmom.

 

This is what I was thinking. Chances are they will meet at some point when kids get transferred. 

[kbutton]

On 2/22/2019 at 10:38 PM, sassenach said:

Not sure what this means. The sn child’s disabilities are completely known and blatant. He has a common dx that I’m choosing not to share just to keep identifying information minimized. 

I can try to answer about which part is unclear if you have a question. 

I didn't get the impression that the SN was blatant. You don't have to share it.

Lots of people get medical IDs for medical or special needs, so it seemed a reasonable way to for the mom to draw attention to the issue if she couldn't share her concerns directly with the stb step-mom.

Registering with local emergency medical services is something people with medical conditions or special needs also tend to do if they know it's available. Our local EMS said it's more effective than a medical ID bracelet (except while traveling someplace else). You can register a condition condition and emergency things to know about it. You can also register if you have a disability that involves necessary medical equipment, like a respirator. In our locality, EMS will prioritize checks on people who are dependent on power for their equipment in the case of an outage or some kind of natural disaster. I just thought this step might add a layer of comfort for the mom if she can't communicate with the stb step-mom. At least EMS would know what the mom is concerned about if some kind of call comes from the dad and step-mom or a neighbor (if wandering is one potential issue, for example).