Is there *anything* a college will like about me?

[Meriwether]

asked my Ds14 the other day when he found out that football players can get scholarships.

Honestly, we are planning on having to pay full price for his college. He is smart enough but will not test particularly well. We are hoping for mid-20's on ACT. He has a 2nd degree black belt for TKD but doesn't compete. He has done 2 years of FLL, but he has aged out now. He likes games and goes to a weekly Magic night. He does pretty well at it considering his decks cost a fraction of what other people's decks cost (He earns his entrance fees and card money doing chores around the house, and most of the other players are working adults). But colleges will not be impressed with winning card games. He does some volunteering, but not enough to stand out. He does a fabulous job of keeping his room neat and clean and helps out around the house, but colleges won't care about that either. He is a good kid, and I think he will do fine in college. He isn't fast but he is diligent. He can either go to the CC for 2 years and transfer or go to the (practically) open admissions state university, so we aren't concerned about him getting in to college as long as we can pay for it. I think he was just feeling like he doesn't have any particular value. But most kids don't really stand out, right? He is average and that is okay?

[...................]

I have a pretty average (on paper) kid too, and I feel a lot better after asking specific questions, and also researching colleges and GPAs.  It turns out there are plenty of private colleges that not only accept, but help average kids, thrive.  🙂 It's just going to cost us a pretty penny 🙂

[Lori D.]

Awwww (((hugs))) to your DS. What a kind soul!

That 2nd degree black belt is a fantastic achievement! Don't discount the years of hard work and perseverance that went in to earning that! 

And, no worries -- he's right on the cusp of starting to find out what else interests *him* -- and that is a far more interesting and satisfying journey than worrying about being spectacular at something.  Also -- you're looking at a young teen, and he has the rest of high school to "bloom". His test scores may end up being higher than you think, esp. if you do practice/prep for a few months in advance of testing.

And just for *you* here are 2 past threads that may be of interest:
"UPDATED: Does anyone have a NON-superstar high school student?"
"Anyone with extraordinarily average students attending high school?"

There are another half dozen or so MORE of these similar threads on PAGE 1 of the "Highschool Motherlode #1" pinned at the top of this board. (Scroll down to the section on "expectations / attitudes".)

You're doing great, mama, and you have a wonderful young man there. Be sure to let him know what a great person he is! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Lori D.]

PS -- And colleges award scholarships for all kinds of activities and reasons. Just to lighten up those worries about college, you and DS and you might have fun looking at the wide variety of reasons scholarships are awarded:
scholarships for average students
scholarships for students with ACT score of 21-25
scholarships for students with ACT score of 26-30
Martial Arts scholarships
unusual scholarships
weird scholarships

Edited February 19, 2019 by Lori D.

[Lanny]

If your DS has something on his application that is interesting, it may make him the "Tuba Player" or whatever they are looking for.  If he has a decent GPA he will get in and he may get some Need and/or Merit Aid.   Put the interests in Magic and TKD and Volunteering and other things he does on the application, in the Essay or somewhere else.

If you look at the stats (on CollegeData.com for example) the Service Academies have low averages on the SAT/ACT for those who are admitted. That tells you they are looking for other qualities in people, not just a high GPA and a high score on the SAT or ACT. This is for West Point:  

"ACT Composite

25 average 
23-28 range of middle 50%"

That's on this URL:   https://www.collegedata.com/en/college-profile/165/

Good luck to him!

BTW: I think I read 2 or 3 days ago that only 2% of High School athletes get scholarships?

[Lori D.]

9 minutes ago, Lanny said:

... BTW: I think I read 2 or 3 days ago that only 2% of High School athletes get scholarships?

Yes (here's an article) -- also, the number of athletic scholarships that are also full-tuition are as rare as hen's teeth! The $$ amount of sports scholarships is not as much as one might think.

[Guest]

If you can, go to an HBCU fair. Even if he has no desire whatsoever to go to an HBCU.  The difference in recruiting is dramatic.  It's very validating to have schools try to prove that they're a good fit for you (and if they're not, state WHY and suggest other options in that same room), not decide if you're a good fit for them.

[RootAnn]

And I will suggest that at 17, my oldest kid is different than she was at 14. Three to four years can make quite a difference.

[moonflower]

Football is a game that (for reasons that mystify me) people pay to watch, in person and on TV.  Most of the money people pay to watch college football doesn't get passed down to the actual football players, by a long shot.  So he can look at it a couple of ways: 1. they've developed a skill, or been born with a talent, that is more monetizable than TKD or Magic card games, so it makes sense for them to benefit monetarily from this skill, or 2. while he won't be getting any money from the college as a result of having a monetizable skill, at least he won't be having to use his skill (and time!) to fund other people's sports 🙂

And in any case, only really exceptional athletes either get college scholarships or make money playing professionally.

Most people are average.  College is ideally supposed to be a worthwhile investment for what it costs; I agree that it doesn't always compute, though.  I'm sure a college will be happy to provide him their services for what they think it costs them to provide them, which is more than some kids can manage.

[teachermom2834]

You are most likely correct that your student will not get big scholarships BUT hardly any students really do. We all hear about "full rides" and going for next to nothing, etc. but those cases are rare (and some are fish stories...I know for a fact several families that have oversold just how much aid their children get).

One of my kids looked great on paper with a long list of activities and awards. The next had many sections left blank on applications because all the great stuff about him just didn't translate to paper. The one that looked great didn't snag a boatload more scholarship money.

Find a school that your student fits at stats wise and that you can afford. Most schools are not difficult to get into and as long as the test scores fit the profile he will be admitted. And college costs alot of money for almost everyone. So your ds is just fine and will likely be in the same boat as almost everyone.

[almondbutterandjelly]

Start tracking all his stuff.  Magic Night is an "Extra Curricular."  Track dates and time spent.  Those hours add up nicely.  TKD black belt is an "Honor or Distinction."  There's a place for that on college apps.  Track his volunteering time.  Note what is is and dates and time spent.  You would be very surprised how that adds up.

My dd is not a stellar academic superstar.  She got 1140 on her second time taking the SAT.  But she ended up having a lot of Volunteer time and Extra Curricular activities (count every little thing.  That one day conference?  Write it down.  That CPR class? Write it down.)  She has been puppeteering for seven years.

She got a Presidential Scholarship to our local university.  It covers about 40 percent of the tuition for 4 years.  

Take heart.  

[Farrar]

What gets you lost in a crowd of applications at one school will stand out at another, smaller, less competitive one. And it's about framing it. I mean, if he writes an amazing essay about keeping his room clean as a metaphor for life or something... I mean, it's not always about having a million AP exams and so forth.

[madteaparty]

I find the whole idea of the college "liking" one fairly repulsive. It's a very american thing for sure. I think we are giving "colleges" a bit too much agency. Especially if you are full pay, as we are, I am certain someplace will "like" my DS enough to be able to send me a bill. Suppose I'm a tad cynical. 

 

[linders]

Just a couple of thoughts, not knowing your DS...

- He obviously likes Magic (so does my DS15). Could he start a Magic club for kids, maybe part of an after-school program, or use a room at the library? Magic can be used to teach all kinds of logic and strategy. If targeted right, it can be a volunteer/leadership type thing. Colleges love seeing how you have taken a passion and applied it to your community.

- Or could he become a paid or unpaid assistant at the TKD studio? Same idea as above, maybe.

[...................]

3 hours ago, Lori D. said:

Yes (here's an article) -- also, the number of athletic scholarships that are also full-tuition are as rare as hen's teeth! The $$ amount of sports scholarships is not as much as one might think.

 

Yep! And the NCAA Limits the amount colleges can give in scholarship money. Those full ride sports scholarships are nearly impossible 

[Meriwether]

4 hours ago, madteaparty said:

I find the whole idea of the college "liking" one fairly repulsive. It's a very american thing for sure. I think we are giving "colleges" a bit too much agency. Especially if you are full pay, as we are, I am certain someplace will "like" my DS enough to be able to send me a bill. Suppose I'm a tad cynical. 

 

I agree. It made me so sad to hear him say it. I told him it didn't matter and that he would be fine in college.

[daijobu]

11 hours ago, Meriwether said:

asked my Ds14 the other day when he found out that football players can get scholarships.

Honestly, we are planning on having to pay full price for his college. He is smart enough but will not test particularly well. We are hoping for mid-20's on ACT. He has a 2nd degree black belt for TKD but doesn't compete. He has done 2 years of FLL, but he has aged out now. He likes games and goes to a weekly Magic night. He does pretty well at it considering his decks cost a fraction of what other people's decks cost (He earns his entrance fees and card money doing chores around the house, and most of the other players are working adults). But colleges will not be impressed with winning card games. He does some volunteering, but not enough to stand out. He does a fabulous job of keeping his room neat and clean and helps out around the house, but colleges won't care about that either. He is a good kid, and I think he will do fine in college. He isn't fast but he is diligent. He can either go to the CC for 2 years and transfer or go to the (practically) open admissions state university, so we aren't concerned about him getting in to college as long as we can pay for it. I think he was just feeling like he doesn't have any particular value. But most kids don't really stand out, right? He is average and that is okay?

 

It's certainly a crazy, messed-up world we live in when a student who isn't an athlete thinks he has nothing of value to offer an institution whose mission is teaching and research.  

I'm assuming by Magic you mean the card game, not pulling out rabbits?  I for one would be highly intrigued by an essay on how exactly he is able to win with cheap cards.  What does it even mean to have inexpensive cards?   While the state schools tend to rely more on stats, I bet a college with holistic admission will care a lot about how he came to be so good at what he does, and what that says about him as a person. 

Nice kids get admitted too.  

[Farrar]

So, I don't want to discourage the MTG stuff exactly (I have an MTG player too), but... I am reminded of how there was a College Confidential thread about a kid who wrote about MTG for his essay and didn't fare so well. I think MTG is great... but colleges may not see it that way. Of course, it might be how you know a school isn't for you, of course. And in the case of that CC thread, if I recall, the kid was aiming at some really competitive schools. I think when you're on the edge, colleges want to see that you'll bring something individual to the table. That might or really might not be it.

[lewelma]

Well, my ds wrote 1 of his 5 essays for MIT on how he loves to play board games and parlor games like Mafia. It never occurred to us that playing games was not something a university would be interested in.  Games are social, strategic, and fun.  

[lewelma]

I really think it is how you sell it. I  wrote about his Win Tsung in my counselor letter. 

Please don't quote: 

removed for privacy

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by lewelma

[Farrar]

I think it's about how you sell it and write about it and where you apply. But also, I think tabletop games may have a cache among non-gamers that MTG lacks.

[Meriwether]

18 minutes ago, Farrar said:

So, I don't want to discourage the MTG stuff exactly (I have an MTG player too), but... I am reminded of how there was a College Confidential thread about a kid who wrote about MTG for his essay and didn't fare so well. I think MTG is great... but colleges may not see it that way. Of course, it might be how you know a school isn't for you, of course. And in the case of that CC thread, if I recall, the kid was aiming at some really competitive schools. I think when you're on the edge, colleges want to see that you'll bring something individual to the table. That might or really might not be it.

I would say that he is highly unlikely to attend a competitive school. He doesn't have the desire to for one. And he will definitely be admitted to our state university. I am not concerned about scholarship money for him, exactly. He has good understanding, but he is a very slow worker. I've figured for a long time that he will not do well enough on tests for a scholarship. And I won't mind paying for him if some of the other kids do get scholarships. I guess I mostly don't like how he is feeling about it. And I think part of the problem is that he mostly compares himself to his sister (15 months older). If he were around other kids more, I think he would realize that he fits in academically with most of the kids who would be attending a school he would go to.

[lewelma]

What I don't like to see is that your son feels that games are not good enough because he thinks a university won't be impressed.  I would encourage him to turn this around.  Games are a wonderful way to develop the soft skills required for all endeavors.  Games are what helped my ds be able to argue without alienating someone, to handle disaster with a smile on his face, to manage a room full of kids when he was dungeon master.  I would get your ds to rethink what he is learning in this gaming group, and celebrate it for what it is -- fun!  

[Meriwether]

52 minutes ago, daijobu said:

 

I for one would be highly intrigued by an essay on how exactly he is able to win with cheap cards.  What does it even mean to have inexpensive cards?

I am not an expert on Magic by any means. I think a deck has 45 cards. That may not be exact. Ds14's decks tend to cost an average of a dollar per card. Better cards cost more money. Some decks he plays against cost hundreds of dollars. I'm pretty sure he has mentioned decks that cost upwards of $300. So, he doesn't get as many really powerful cards. He has to choose cards that complement each other well. He does pretty well with his decks, but he does best on draft nights. Each person makes a deck with cards opened that night. It levels the playing field a bit. He wins or gets 2nd fairly often on those nights.

[lewelma]

we were writing at the same time. Wasn't sure if you saw my previous post.  🙂 

[Meriwether]

1 minute ago, lewelma said:

What I don't like to see is that your son feels that games are not good enough because he thinks a university won't be impressed.  I would encourage him to turn this around.  Games are a wonderful way to develop the soft skills required for all endeavors.  Games are what helped my ds be able to argue without alienating someone, to handle disaster with a smile on his face, to manage a room full of kids when he was dungeon master.  I would get your ds to rethink what he is learning in this gaming group, and celebrate it for what it is -- fun!  

I love that he plays the games. It is the first regular activity out of the house that he has really loved. And I would much rather he spend time doing something he loves than do things to put on a college resume. He is really enjoying the game nights. He has even talked about hosting draft nights of his own if he can organize it. I think it is more that he doesn't consider the games to have anything to do with college that that they aren't good enough. He actually likes to make games. I've suggested he look into designing one to sell. Long odds, but it would be funny if games actually paid for college. LOL

[lewelma]

My SIL's brother makes games for a living.  Have you ever heard of Betrayal at House on the Hill?  He was a English professor, but once he started making more money on royalties on his games than as a professor, he retired from teaching to make games. 🙂  

It also sounds to me like he doesn't know what impresses universities, because I definitely think he could sell his passions if he wanted to. But I'm not sure he should care given that he has a school that will take him and parents who can pay. This means he can do what he loves and let the chips fall where they may.  

Edited February 20, 2019 by lewelma

[daijobu]

29 minutes ago, Meriwether said:

I am not an expert on Magic by any means. I think a deck has 45 cards. That may not be exact. Ds14's decks tend to cost an average of a dollar per card. Better cards cost more money. Some decks he plays against cost hundreds of dollars. I'm pretty sure he has mentioned decks that cost upwards of $300. So, he doesn't get as many really powerful cards. He has to choose cards that complement each other well. He does pretty well with his decks, but he does best on draft nights. Each person makes a deck with cards opened that night. It levels the playing field a bit. He wins or gets 2nd fairly often on those nights.

 

I guess my point is, his interest and success in this game could make for an interesting story about his life, one that would be intriguing to competitive colleges.  I don't know your ds's test scores and grades, but I wouldn't write him off.  He sounds like a great guy.  

[Meriwether]

1 hour ago, lewelma said:

My SIL's brother makes games for a living.  Have you ever heard of Betrayal at House on the Hill?  He was a English professor, but once he started making more money on royalties on his games than as a professor, he retired from teaching to make games. 🙂  

It also sounds to me like he doesn't know what impresses universities, because I definitely think he could sell his passions if he wanted to. But I'm not sure he should care given that he has a school that will take him and parents who can pay. This means he can do what he loves and let the chips fall where they may.  

I've heard of Betrayal at House on the Hill, but only mentioned online. That is very cool that you know someone who makes games.

[klmama]

Games are great!  And while games may not be able to pay for college, they can certainly help. One of my nephews started programming around your ds's age, and he went on to create a game that he offered free on the app store; I think he earned a nickel for every ad someone clicked on while they played his game.  It doesn't sound like much, but eventually it started getting a lot of traffic, earning him around $500 a month while in college.  That led to a local programming job, which led to one in Silicon Valley, which led to him starting up his own company, which led to him working for a major corporation whose website most of us use daily.  Not bad for a kid who didn't even major in computer science and got started by making a game.  😉

 

[daijobu]

 

On 2/19/2019 at 5:36 PM, lewelma said:

What I don't like to see is that your son feels that games are not good enough because he thinks a university won't be impressed.  I would encourage him to turn this around.  Games are a wonderful way to develop the soft skills required for all endeavors.  Games are what helped my ds be able to argue without alienating someone, to handle disaster with a smile on his face, to manage a room full of kids when he was dungeon master.  I would get your ds to rethink what he is learning in this gaming group, and celebrate it for what it is -- fun!  

 

My MathCounts team last year had a few students who couldn't attend our regular meetings so they were meeting the other teammates at chapter competition for the first time.  There is a lot of down time while they are grading the tests, and being middle schoolers, they were also unsure and a bit shy.   

Fortunately I had a gamer on my MathCounts team, who was more than happy to "deal them in" to a round of some card game as he explained the rules.  My shy newbies, holding their cards and listening, suddenly felt like they were part of the in group.  Soon students from other teams were coming to our team's table and asking to be dealt in.  

It was wonderful, and it's a story I wrote about in my recommendation letter for him.  (He's brilliant at math, but it also gave me an opportunity to highlight his sweet, inclusive nature.)  

 

[theelfqueen]

Is there a local charity gaming convention he could get involved with -- show some leadership and volunteering that highlights his gaming. (We have a local teen-only con and a regional all-for-charity con). Can he do a game design class or classes to tie to his interests and show something unique? If he wants to host -- maybe talk to the local teen librarian about organizing through the library or something -- again create a leadership project focused on MTG. (My youngest plays D&D primarily through his library-based group, though he also plays some in his free time).

My middle son was a competitive Magic player for many years... his path isn't heading toward 4 year college right now... but that is definitely a part of who he is.

Edited February 21, 2019 by theelfqueen

[Myra]

And don't rule out private colleges - as my son rec'd merit scholarships, but also qualified for a couple of endowed scholarships.  These included one that specified it to be granted solely on being from a rural area, another for being a child of a state-employee, and one for working for college funds by summer part-time jobs!  And then there are general grant money based on who-knows-what