Men vs Women gymnastics-why different clothes/moves?

[Garga]

Men’s gymnastics: they wear pants or loose fitting shorts.  

Women’s gymnastics:  they wear a one-piece suit that always rides up their bottoms.

Men’s gymnastics, floor exercises:  they do their gymnastic moves, one after another.

Women’s gymnastics, floor exercises:  in between each move, they dance around.  Some of them dance around in a sexy manner.  

Why?

Without knowing why, I don’t like it.  I don’t like it that the women’s clothing shows off their butts, while the men’s doesn’t.  What’s the point other than to show off their butts because they’re female?  And I don’t like how the women have to add a little dance between all their moves.  Why?  Because if women aren’t dancing around,...what?  Why do the women have to dance as part of their routine and the men don’t?

Am I missing something? Without knowing why, it feels sexist to me and I am uncomfortable watching women’s gymnastics.  Or do the men dance and I just haven’t seen it?  I don’t watch a lot of it, but was having fun looking at some videos of gymnastics, until I started feeling confused about all the dancing the women did and all the butts I saw.  I mean, if someone wants to show off their butt, whatever.  But it seems required for women and not for men and that’s a problem for me.

[PeterPan]

I'm gonna leave the whole issue with gender, clothing differences, etc. aside because I was just on a cruise ship where the women were mostly in bikinis while the men beside them wore tons more. 

As far as the gymnastics, my ds was on a boys team. I can tell you that girls are significantly more limber than boys and actually (shhh) stronger in the early years. The boys can't do what the girls can do, which is why the girls can do the additional performance stuff, etc. As you say, the girls have choreography and the boys have required sequences, boom, same for every person. That may change in upper levels, but in what my ds was doing, it's the same for everyone. The boys wear pants for things where their legs would catch or be uncomfortable, like pommel horse. You'll notice their tops are tanks so their arm muscles show when doing rings, etc. So it's partly tradition and partly function. The girls, ahem, have outfits that show their legs for the showing of what muscles are being used. At least that's the way a coach told it to me. 

So the boys CAN'T do what the girls are doing and wouldn't. The girls LIKE doing what they're doing and choose it. They wear make-up, do their hair, and it's a really important thing to them. Also, fwiw, most girls tend to wear little boy shorts when practicing, so that it's only in competitions where they wear the outfits you're thinking of. 

Do you swim in a swimsuit? Probably the same gig. I wear stuff down to my knees when I swim, so who am I to talk, lol.

Edited February 13, 2019 by PeterPan

[Jean in Newcastle]

Sexy is where you look for it. Putting dance moves and connections in a routine doesn’t mean that anyone is sexualizing anything. 

[JumpyTheFrog]

If you look at women's gymnastics from say fifty years ago, it looked a lot more ballet-like with some tumbling thrown in. Since then it has become more about the tumbling, with, in my opinion, some silly dance moves thrown in as a nod to the past. I especially think the extraneous arm moves on the beam look silly.

Maybe I am biased by having two sons who are competitive gymnasts.

[EmseB]

In the women's gymnastics I've seen the butts are covered and the legs are emphasized, but maybe I haven't watched recently. I would say most of the outfits are based on ease of movement and enhancing/emphasizing muscle groups or whatever is being judged. Like in ballet, girls wear tights and leotards because the movements have to be done/corrected with such insane specificity that pants and t-shirts wouldn't work. Gymnastics are kind of similar. The men wear short shorts on some apparatus because they don't need pants and they want to appear elongated or whatever. The men wear tank tops that show a lot of muscles. Girls have leotards that are long sleeved sometimes. 🤷‍♀️

Does it make a difference to think of men's gymnastics and women's gymnastics as essentially different sports with a few commonalities? 

But it's not like WAG is inferior because it incorporates more dancing or MAG is better because they wear pants on some of the apparatus.

[Garga]

24 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

 

Do you swim in a swimsuit? Probably the same gig. I wear stuff down to my knees when I swim, so who am I to talk, lol.

I don’t wear a swimsuit.    I wear a rash guard and swim shorts.  So, yeah, I also think it’s ridiculous what people wear to the beach—the women in essentially underwear, and the men covered to their knees.  It’s one thing if they want to, but I know a lot of women who don’t like wearing the swimsuits, but do it because they feel frumpy in the get up I wear (rash guard and shorts.) and they give in to societal pressure to wear a suit.

But I appreciate the response.  I didn’t want to come out guns blazing about sexism, etc, until I could ask someone to explain what I was seeing.  And the hive knows everything, so I figured there would be gymnast moms here who would have already thought this through and have reasons that I might not know about.

Edited February 13, 2019 by Garga

[Bluegoat]

I think it's iteresting to look at figure skating and gymnastics from, say, 50 or 60 years ago.  There is alot less sexy stuff going on, and you cans see, IMO a lot more utility in the outfits.  But I do think generally the outfits are made to emphasise the traits of that sex.  Which I actually don't have an issue with.  Part of the reason men and women have differentces in their activities in gymnastics is they are physically not able to do the same things.

[itsheresomewhere]

I may get flamed for this but I find women’s volleyball outfits to be worse than gymnastics.  

[PeterPan]

5 minutes ago, itsheresomewhere said:

I may get flamed for this but I find women’s volleyball outfits to be worse than gymnastics.  

And volleyball is only co-ed a few years. It's a really interesting phenomenon. 

[AbcdeDooDah]

The dance moves make no sense, either. They have no connection to the routine. I thought I just read something about point deductions for butt-cheeks. I will see if I can find it.

 

[Bluegoat]

Yeah, the dance moves are weird - they on't add anything, they just look like a weird twitch.

[wintermom]

I think there are several reasons why sport uniforms are designed the way they currently are (and most uniforms have evolved over the decades):

- allow for ease of movement

- allow judges and coaches to see critical body parts for points awarded (e.g., straight, parallel legs)

- material doesn't interfere with movement of body on apparatus

Any long skirts or bunches of fabric on top are going to get in the way of moving freely and safely. The material can't catch on any of the apparatus for safety reasons. 

[Ottakee]

2 hours ago, kdsuomi said:

It's not just gymnastics, but pretty much every sport, that has ridiculous uniform differences between the sexes and often times huge rule differences. 

Men's outfits vs women's outfits in beach volleyball...........

[alisoncooks]

The female gymnasts (that I've seen on tv) totally have cheeky suits (intentional or not, idk).  Which is interesting because many of them are quite young.

The part about small suits = being able to see the body's lines and such...that doesn't ring true to me. You could wear form fitting leggings and still see leg placement and angles and such.  

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, itsheresomewhere said:

I may get flamed for this but I find women’s volleyball outfits to be worse than gymnastics.  

Sidebar, but one thing I liked about my dd being on the volleyball team at a private school (vs. public) is they did not allow spandex boy shorts for the uniform. The girls could wear them under their shorts, but the uniform shorts were just normal sports shorts. I think they might have since capitulated, though. 

[umsami]

S*x sells.  It always has.  My guess is that TV executives and other male head honchos helped push the standards.  Studio heads, TV execs, head of major sports bodies....still mainly male. 

[Garga]

2 hours ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

The dance moves make no sense, either. They have no connection to the routine. I thought I just read something about point deductions for butt-cheeks. I will see if I can find it.

 

 

1 hour ago, Bluegoat said:

Yeah, the dance moves are weird - they on't add anything, they just look like a weird twitch.

 

Right!  I don’t even like the dance moves.  There is all this magnificant skill...then a weird little half dance....then something jaw-dropping when the woman flies through the air...then an odd little wiggle....then she’s leaping over a flippin’ building practically...then a twitchy dance move.  It just doesn’t flow to me.  But, I don’t watch a lot of gymnastics, so maybe I don’t have the right eye for it.  I remember when I started watching lots and lots of ice skating competitions every year and after awhile I started to understand how the programs worked and how the moves/components fit together in a way I never understood when I only watched it every four years for the Olympics.  So...maybe the dancing makes sense if you are a follower of the sport.

Edited February 14, 2019 by Garga

[dirty ethel rackham]

3 hours ago, JumpyTheFrog said:

If you look at women's gymnastics from say fifty years ago, it looked a lot more ballet-like with some tumbling thrown in. Since then it has become more about the tumbling, with, in my opinion, some silly dance moves thrown in as a nod to the past. I especially think the extraneous arm moves on the beam look silly.

Maybe I am biased by having two sons who are competitive gymnasts.

This is what one of the best floor exercise looked like in 1972.  Ludmilla Tourischeva was one of the best in floor exercise at the time, particularly due to her dance ability.  This is probably the last truly balletic gymnasts.  Kathy Johnson was old school at the time MaryLou Retton was ascending into superstardom.  Back at this time, they still had compulsories, which was a prescribed routine that everyone had to do as part of qualifying for "optionals".  The dance moves had to be included as choreographed.  I miss these routines.  They were beautifully choreographed and well-thought out.  Today's routines are all about the tumbling and the dance moves are an afterthought, often to play to the crowd.  

Oh, and back then, people were grumbling about how immodest these leotards were.  The leotards of today seem to reflect the fashion of today's swimsuits and, well, underwear.  Less coverage of the booty seems to be the norm.  

And, yes, men's gymnastics was vastly different than women's.  Men's emphasized power, control, and form.  Women's emphasized form, lightness, and effortlessness.  Explosive power was not valued because it didn't look pretty.  Today, the moves done in women's gymnastics are coming closer and closer to what the men are doing.    The uneven bars used to be set according to the distance between the gymnasts grip on the top bar and where she bent at the hips.  These days, they are a lot further apart to accomodate giant swings, a move borrowed from men's high bar.   

[Jean in Newcastle]

Having had a girl involved in gymnastics, a significant part of women’s floor exercise is having an artistic element in addition to the tumbling. 

Leotards nowadays are a lot safer for women athletes than in the past in my opinion. 

[Garga]

52 minutes ago, dirty ethel rackham said:

This is what one of the best floor exercise looked like in 1972.  Ludmilla Tourischeva was one of the best in floor exercise at the time, particularly due to her dance ability.  This is probably the last truly balletic gymnasts.  Kathy Johnson was old school at the time MaryLou Retton was ascending into superstardom.  Back at this time, they still had compulsories, which was a prescribed routine that everyone had to do as part of qualifying for "optionals".  The dance moves had to be included as choreographed.  I miss these routines.  They were beautifully choreographed and well-thought out.  Today's routines are all about the tumbling and the dance moves are an afterthought, often to play to the crowd.  

Oh, and back then, people were grumbling about how immodest these leotards were.  The leotards of today seem to reflect the fashion of today's swimsuits and, well, underwear.  Less coverage of the booty seems to be the norm.  

And, yes, men's gymnastics was vastly different than women's.  Men's emphasized power, control, and form.  Women's emphasized form, lightness, and effortlessness.  Explosive power was not valued because it didn't look pretty.  Today, the moves done in women's gymnastics are coming closer and closer to what the men are doing.    The uneven bars used to be set according to the distance between the gymnasts grip on the top bar and where she bent at the hips.  These days, they are a lot further apart to accomodate giant swings, a move borrowed from men's high bar.   

 

I watched the videos—those older routines merged the moves and the dancing together in a way that seems more effortless and less disjointed than if looks nowadays to my unpracticed eye.  So, I can now understand the roots of why they dance between moves.  (Is moves the right word?  Elements?)

Very interesting about the change in emphasis for the sport.  Thank you!

Edited February 14, 2019 by Garga

[Garga]

10 minutes ago, umsami said:

S*x sells.  It always has.  My guess is that TV executives and other male head honchos helped push the standards.  Studio heads, TV execs, head of major sports bodies....still mainly male. 

That’s my cynical take on it.  It’s interesting/educational to hear more about it from other posters who don’t see it quite that way and know more about the sport.  It does feel like the dancing is the norm or expectation because it’s something men want to see either now or in the past when the expectations were first set decades ago.  I try not to be too cynical about this stuff, but it’s hard not to be.

[Bluegoat]

I used to like watching the figures in the skating routines, I was sad when they took them out.  It really did seem to become more about the stunts.

[Garga]

43 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

 

Yep. Or, regular volleyball, tennis, soccer (at least around here girls are wearing almost volleyball size shorts now), etc. 

Urgh.  So, I shouldn’t start watching videos of any sport or I’ll just get annoyed at all of them, right?  I had to look up the volleyball uniforms everyone was talking about.  Are those uniforms comfortable?  Because they look like something I’d want to constantly tug at.  And if you’re menstruating, it seems like you’d be constantly worried about something showing—a string or whatever they use.  What underwear do you wear under those tiny shorts?  

I just don’t see how the clothes are comfortable.  It would be one thing if I looked at it and thought, “Oh, those shorts are soooo short, but dang do they look comfy!”  No.  I look at them and think, “Oh, those shorts are soooo short and they look like they would actually hurt to wear.  Ouch if they ride up!  And what about menstruation??”  

And that’s when I start getting cynical.  And the women might say, “We’re proud of our bodies and want to show them off!”  But do they because they want to really?  Or are women just conditioned to want to show them off?  I dunno.  That’s a tricky one to tease out. 

When I picture men in the certain outfits that women wear and my first instinct is to think “that would look ridiculous” is when I start to question why women wear the outfits they do.  Like, if men teetered around on high heels, even if they walked with skill on them and not like a man trying them on for the first time, it would be jarring.  Watching a man walk in heels and have to pick his way over a lawn is a good example.  Or if he was in a skin-tight dress and had to tug it down every time he stood up, like every woman on tv does (like when the female judges on American Idol stand up to applaud a contestant, they always do a tug first, but the men just rise up and clap), that would looks silly and frivolous.  And that’s when it bugs me that women are so constrained in their clothes and on display in a way men aren’t.  

(But I also had a crummy day today dealing with a high school mess up and a College Board mess up and the library messed up my fax to CB and then the cat puked all over the couch and the electric blanket on the couch....so I could just be super irritated right now. I am thankful that I got the couch from Ikea with the removable cover, as recommended by the hive, so I could just toss the couch cover in the washing machine.  Thank you, hive!)

Edited February 14, 2019 by Garga

[Garga]

8 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

I used to enjoy watching gymnastics and figure skating much more than I do now because they just felt more beautiful. Now they're all about doing technical things with random moments of "artistry" thrown in and looking really out of place. In fact, figure skating has become almost unbearable for me to watch anymore because all it's about it who can do the most jumps.

Yes! Before I had kids, I used to watch all the skating competitions that lead up to the Olympics.  For hours every weekend I was watching the skaters do their programs and improve upon them over time, etc.  

And when I had kids, I stopped watching because I had to watch my kids and didn’t have hours to stare at the screen to watch the skating.  Ice skating is a sport that you have to watch—you can’t just listen to commentary on the radio.  So, I had to stop watching because I had to watch the kids and not keep my eyes glued to the screen.

When the kids were old enough, I started watching again, and it was all about quads for the men and triples for the women on jumps they didn’t used to do triples for, and it was jarring.  All of a sudden I was thinking, “Are you *trying* to damage their bodies?”  It felt desperate in a way that it didn’t feel before.  

Then again, the other day I had an unironic conversation with my husband about how when we were young we had to walk everywhere, like to school, in the snow while carrying heavy backpacks, but nowadays kids are driven everywhere.  By the end of the conversation, I realized I had turned into an Old Fart somewhere in the past couple of years.  😄.   So maybe I’m just an Old Fart when it comes to triples and quads and dancing gymnasts.  

[Bluegoat]

4 minutes ago, Garga said:

Yes! Before I had kids, I used to watch all the skating competitions that lead up to the Olympics.  For hours every weekend I was watching the skaters do their programs and improve upon them over time, etc.  

And when I had kids, I stopped watching because I had to watch my kids and didn’t have hours to stare at the screen to watch the skating.  Ice skating is a sport that you have to watch—you can’t just listen to commentary on the radio.  So, I had to stop watching because I had to watch the kids and not keep my eyes glued to the screen.

When the kids were old enough, I started watching again, and it was all about quads for the men and triples for the women on jumps they didn’t used to do triples for, and it was jarring.  All of a sudden I was thinking, “Are you *trying* to damage their bodies?”  It felt desperate in a way that it didn’t feel before.  

Then again, the other day I had an unironic conversation with my husband about how when we were young we had to walk everywhere, like to school, in the snow while carrying heavy backpacks, but nowadays kids are driven everywhere.  By the end of the conversation, I realized I had turned into an Old Fart somewhere in the past couple of years.  😄.   So maybe I’m just an Old Fart when it comes to triples and quads and dancing gymnasts.  

 

And in fact a lot of the sports now, at high levels, are damaging.  Not just, you are unlucky enough to have an accident and you are hurt, or you happen to have bad knees and you find you can't sustain the activity.  But the activities themselves can be very highly damaging, even for quite young people who have great geetics.  It's not really something you do, or have your kids do, to have a healthy lifestyle.

[dirty ethel rackham]

8 minutes ago, Garga said:

 

When the kids were old enough, I started watching again, and it was all about quads for the men and triples for the women on jumps they didn’t used to do triples for, and it was jarring.  All of a sudden I was thinking, “Are you *trying* to damage their bodies?”  It felt desperate in a way that it didn’t feel before.  

<snip>   So maybe I’m just an Old Fart when it comes to triples and quads and dancing gymnasts.  

I agree.  They are damaging their bodies.  I know many "failed" gymnasts who were washed up by the time they were teenagers ... they had so many injuries that their joints were resembling old people.  (They often go on to become excellent rock climbers.) There are a ton of hip injuries in skaters these days due to the punishing demands of those quads.  

ETA:  And I'm just an Old Fart, too.  I miss the days when the quality of a skater's stroking and gliding was valued.  Now, they look like jackhammers on ice.  

Edited February 14, 2019 by dirty ethel rackham

[Guest]

1 hour ago, alisoncooks said:

The female gymnasts (that I've seen on tv) totally have cheeky suits (intentional or not, idk).  Which is interesting because many of them are quite young.

The part about small suits = being able to see the body's lines and such...that doesn't ring true to me. You could wear form fitting leggings and still see leg placement and angles and such.  

 

FWIW, Club/travel  cheer is slowly moving towards outfits that are more leggings/shorts and tops (and bare midriffs are now limited to senior teams and going away more and more and skirts are becoming kind of old school. The primary reason is international competition and the efforts to get cheer recognized as an Olympic sport-but also because of concerns that underage girls putting themselves on social media in what is essentially a sports bra and spanx is NOT a good thing. -here’s a catalog example. https://www.danzia.com/motionwear-all-star-top/p872007

Edited February 14, 2019 by dmmetler

[CAJinBE]

My first thought was about beach volleyball. I like volleyball but I wouldn't want to play competitive beach volleyball because of the uniforms. 

[EMS83]

Well in swimming the guys get the rawer deal, so to speak, so there's that...  😄 
And I guess tights for both in things like gymnastics, ballet, and ice skating are the most equitable; the case for seeing the muscles makes some sense.  But I don't understand the purpose for the disparity in the volleyball uniforms.  All you want to do there is avoid impeded movement, so what works for the guys ought to work for the gals as well. 🤔

[wintermom]

1 hour ago, CES2005 said:

Well in swimming the guys get the rawer deal, so to speak, so there's that...  😄 
And I guess tights for both in things like gymnastics, ballet, and ice skating are the most equitable; the case for seeing the muscles makes some sense.  But I don't understand the purpose for the disparity in the volleyball uniforms.  All you want to do there is avoid impeded movement, so what works for the guys ought to work for the gals as well. 🤔

In beach volleyball, the sand sticks to anything wet. The guys sweat a bunch, then switch t-shirts right on-camera. Women can't do that. They can brush sand off their body. 

When you actually get out there in the heat, dive into sand, and have to get up quickly and move to chase down a ball, less clothing is better. Sandy clothing gets heavy and annoying.

[Bluegoat]

23 minutes ago, wintermom said:

In beach volleyball, the sand sticks to anything wet. The guys sweat a bunch, then switch t-shirts right on-camera. Women can't do that. They can brush sand off their body. 

When you actually get out there in the heat, dive into sand, and have to get up quickly and move to chase down a ball, less clothing is better. Sandy clothing gets heavy and annoying.

 

That goes no way to explaining why the men wear reasonable sport shorts, while the women wear items that would be small for underwear.

It's to sell tv time, and its no different than other television which has women in far more provocative clothing than men.

[maize]

39 minutes ago, wintermom said:

In beach volleyball, the sand sticks to anything wet. The guys sweat a bunch, then switch t-shirts right on-camera. Women can't do that. They can brush sand off their body. 

When you actually get out there in the heat, dive into sand, and have to get up quickly and move to chase down a ball, less clothing is better. Sandy clothing gets heavy and annoying.

Women could change shirts on camera with a sports bra on underneath and still have more coverage than a bikini. This is nonsense reasoning.

I assume there is objectification of the female body at play anytime women are expected to wear either significantly more than or significantly less than men.

[Serenade]

12 hours ago, dirty ethel rackham said:

This is what one of the best floor exercise looked like in 1972.  Ludmilla Tourischeva was one of the best in floor exercise at the time, particularly due to her dance ability.  This is probably the last truly balletic gymnasts.  Kathy Johnson was old school at the time MaryLou Retton was ascending into superstardom.  Back at this time, they still had compulsories, which was a prescribed routine that everyone had to do as part of qualifying for "optionals".  The dance moves had to be included as choreographed.  I miss these routines.  They were beautifully choreographed and well-thought out.  Today's routines are all about the tumbling and the dance moves are an afterthought, often to play to the crowd.  

Oh, and back then, people were grumbling about how immodest these leotards were.  The leotards of today seem to reflect the fashion of today's swimsuits and, well, underwear.  Less coverage of the booty seems to be the norm.  

And, yes, men's gymnastics was vastly different than women's.  Men's emphasized power, control, and form.  Women's emphasized form, lightness, and effortlessness.  Explosive power was not valued because it didn't look pretty.  Today, the moves done in women's gymnastics are coming closer and closer to what the men are doing.    The uneven bars used to be set according to the distance between the gymnasts grip on the top bar and where she bent at the hips.  These days, they are a lot further apart to accomodate giant swings, a move borrowed from men's high bar.   

 

I love the live piano in that one video. ❤️

Edited February 14, 2019 by Serenade

[Ravin]

Perhaps we should have athletes do like they did in ancient Greece--wear nothing. Then there would be no double standard.😏

[AbcdeDooDah]

36 minutes ago, Ravin said:

Perhaps we should have athletes do like they did in ancient Greece--wear nothing. Then there would be no double standard.😏

 

The level of injury that must have occurred . . .😱

[Guest]

14 hours ago, kdsuomi said:

I used to enjoy watching gymnastics and figure skating much more than I do now because they just felt more beautiful. Now they're all about doing technical things with random moments of "artistry" thrown in and looking really out of place. In fact, figure skating has become almost unbearable for me to watch anymore because all it's about it who can do the most jumps.

I know nothing about figure skating at all, but I remember back during the famous Olympics when Nanci Kerrigan skated after Tonia Harding had her knee taken out. Before I knew the outcome, I remember watching Oksana Bahule (surely spelling wrong) and she just...floated like a butterfly. Her skating was so beautiful I could almost cry. I know the people who look at technicalities said Kerrigan’s routine was totally flawless, while Oksana’s had one technical error (slight two-fotted landing), but from my casual observer’s POV, Oksana’s routine was heart-breakingly beautiful. I thought the medals were awarded exactly as they should have been. 

[wintermom]

5 hours ago, Bluegoat said:

 

That goes no way to explaining why the men wear reasonable sport shorts, while the women wear items that would be small for underwear.

It's to sell tv time, and its no different than other television which has women in far more provocative clothing than men.

If you do some research into how hard women had to fight to even participate in Olympic events, you'll find that the first impulse of many men was to keep them out of sports altogether. Then they wanted them covered up. The fact that women can participate in sports with clothing that actually allows them free movement is a huge, positive thing. 

And if you polled women in gyms, you'd probably find that they prefer wearing clothing that is pretty similar to what athletic sport uniforms and fight regulations trying to control what they wear. 

[Bluegoat]

3 minutes ago, wintermom said:

If you do some research into how hard women had to fight to even participate in Olympic events, you'll find that the first impulse of many men was to keep them out of sports altogether. Then they wanted them covered up. The fact that women can participate in sports with clothing that actually allows them free movement is a huge, positive thing. 

And if you polled women in gyms, you'd probably find that they prefer wearing clothing that is pretty similar to what athletic sport uniforms and fight regulations trying to control what they wear. 

 

I don't think it's just chance that what women choose to wear, in the gym or elsewhere, is highly sexualised and shows a lot more flesh than what men choose to wear.  And that includes in a gym - I saw a bunch of runners the other day down by the lake - it is February so cold here - and the men were all covered, wearing t-shirts, with long sleeves underneath in many cases, or sweatshirts, and sports shorts with leggings underneath or sweatpants.  The women were wearing leggings alone, crop tops, and sports bras, perhaps with a hoodie open over the top.

If this only happened in sports maybe it would seem plausible that this related to some physiological difference between women and men, though I'd still think it's unlikely.  But that isn't the case, it follows the same pattern as the rest of the sexualisation of women's bodies.

[EmseB]

35 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

 

I don't think it's just chance that what women choose to wear, in the gym or elsewhere, is highly sexualised and shows a lot more flesh than what men choose to wear.  And that includes in a gym - I saw a bunch of runners the other day down by the lake - it is February so cold here - and the men were all covered, wearing t-shirts, with long sleeves underneath in many cases, or sweatshirts, and sports shorts with leggings underneath or sweatpants.  The women were wearing leggings alone, crop tops, and sports bras, perhaps with a hoodie open over the top.

If this only happened in sports maybe it would seem plausible that this related to some physiological difference between women and men, though I'd still think it's unlikely.  But that isn't the case, it follows the same pattern as the rest of the sexualisation of women's bodies.

I guess maybe I'm alone in thinking that women's gymnastics leotards are not highly sexualized. The arms are often fully covered, as is the chest. I think it's interesting that people look at what they are wearing and see highly sexualized. I see athletic. I mean, there is something to the olympics as showing off muscles or athleticism or whatever maybe. Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but I think there is a difference. For most sports, honestly, if I worked out that much and looked that fit I would not mind showing it off in some way, but not in a sexual way I guess.

Maybe my view is colored by the fact that I spent years in competitive swimming where the men were in tiny, tiny speedos. But women had full coverage over the chest and, sure, hi-cut legs, but no one wants to try to swim a race with a suit that comes down over the tops of the thighs anyway. In any other scenario, what the men were wearing was, honestly, embarrassing for them and very revealing. But that's what they wore because it's functional to the sport, not to show anything off.

When I see people running I assume they are wearing what's comfortable for them to run in. I don't feel comfortable running in a sports bra, but I wish I did because my skin gets itchy-hot when I run. I see men running shirtless in Feb and wonder how they stand it, but I assume it's because that's what they prefer/is comfortable. I've never seen people jogging and thought they are wearing something that they otherwise wouldn't in order to...appear sexy while running down the road? I guess maybe that's not impossible. I have friends who do cross fit and it's always leggings, sports bra, and huge tank top that shows the sides of the bra. But it's functional to what they are doing, not a fashion statement for the most part. The men wear less or the same (minus a bra, of course).

For beach volleyball, I feel like there is some culture of being on the beach in a swim suit, however that looks, and it's mostly young people who are very fit and there is probably some degree of showing off one's body. But playing volley ball in the sand, it seems like a swim suit, even a bikini, is not a weird choice of attire. I remember seeing one olympics or championship where it was colder than usual so the women wore zip-up jackets until they got too hot during the game.

But when you look at winter sports, it's not like women are out there snowboarding and skiing in clothing that's more revealing than the men or anything. They wear what's functional for the sport, right? So I don't think it's universal that women are being dressed or dressing for sexiness in sport.

 

[maize]

I don't personally see gymnastics leotards as sexualizing but the fact that they have to be glued in place to maintain coverage...suggests to me that better options could be developed.

I wouldn't feel comfortable if bum glue was all that stood between me and an embarrassing wardrobe malfunction while completing incredibly challenging feats of physical exertion.

[Garga]

12 minutes ago, maize said:

 

I wouldn't feel comfortable if bum glue was all that stood between me and an embarrassing wardrobe malfunction while completing incredibly challenging feats of physical exertion.

I didn’t know they wore glue!  I often feel on edge watching them, wondering when the clothing is going to slip and show off everything, what with all the twisting and leaping they do.  I have wondered why the clothing doesn’t bunch up more.  

[Lady Marmalade]

I don't have sport kids, but I have dancers.  

My DS prefers to wear more clothing when working out because it holds more sweat.  Sad,but true, he is a sweat factory, and yes, he frequently will change his shirt when he's dancing for several hours at a time.  Depending on the style of dance, he wears tighter clothing (ballet, often contemporary) so that the muscles can be easily seen for correction. 

My DD is a modest girl normally.  She doesn't show cleavage or belly button in her normal every day clothing and prefers to be a touch more covered up than your average teenager.  However, when she's dancing it's a completely different ball game.  The less clothing the better.  She needs the sports bra and booty shorts for obvious coverage and for coraling the wobbly bits.  But otherwise, loose clothing is a distraction she does not want or need, and it can also be a hazard depending on how loose it is.   I guarantee her choice in clothing has 100% nothing to do with sexualization and everything to do with what she can wear that won't physically impede her, but allows her the most freedom in movement. 

Conversations about athletes and what they wear is ALWAYS about them and not to or with them.  I bet those beach volleyball players LIKE wearing what they wear because they don't have to think about it.  They don't have to worry about a loose shirt blowing up and getting in the way or getting sand in the cracks and crevices and creating a sandpaper effect on the body.  Those super tight volleyball clothes keep the sand out for the most part.  I imagine the chafing for a beach volleyball player is pretty unbearable at times. 😲

[Junie]

55 minutes ago, maize said:

I don't personally see gymnastics leotards as sexualizing but the fact that they have to be glued in place to maintain coverage...suggests to me that better options could be developed.

I wouldn't feel comfortable if bum glue was all that stood between me and an embarrassing wardrobe malfunction while completing incredibly challenging feats of physical exertion.

... on national or worldwide television.  

[frogger]

2 hours ago, EmseB said:

 

Maybe my view is colored by the fact that I spent years in competitive swimming where the men were in tiny, tiny speedos. But women had full coverage over the chest and, sure, hi-cut legs, but no one wants to try to swim a race with a suit that comes down over the tops of the thighs anyway. In any other scenario, what the men were wearing was, honestly, embarrassing for them and very revealing. But that's what they wore because it's functional to the sport, not to show anything off.

 

 

 

I noticed in more recent olympics suits of both men and women went down the thighs a ways. I was thinking maybe it makes them more streamlined.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Well, I think that my running daughter looks absolutely lovely in her leggings and jogging bra/ tech shirt.  Anyone who is sexualizing her can just stop because I have found absolutely no one in the actual running community who is doing that.  (I have found that community to be such a warm welcoming community of non-judgmental people - at least on the surface.)  Runners are just trying to not hit the wall or to push past it.   I think that sexualization starts in the mind of the people doing the judging. 

[Bluegoat]

2 hours ago, EmseB said:

I guess maybe I'm alone in thinking that women's gymnastics leotards are not highly sexualized. The arms are often fully covered, as is the chest. I think it's interesting that people look at what they are wearing and see highly sexualized. I see athletic. I mean, there is something to the olympics as showing off muscles or athleticism or whatever maybe. Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but I think there is a difference. For most sports, honestly, if I worked out that much and looked that fit I would not mind showing it off in some way, but not in a sexual way I guess.

Maybe my view is colored by the fact that I spent years in competitive swimming where the men were in tiny, tiny speedos. But women had full coverage over the chest and, sure, hi-cut legs, but no one wants to try to swim a race with a suit that comes down over the tops of the thighs anyway. In any other scenario, what the men were wearing was, honestly, embarrassing for them and very revealing. But that's what they wore because it's functional to the sport, not to show anything off.

When I see people running I assume they are wearing what's comfortable for them to run in. I don't feel comfortable running in a sports bra, but I wish I did because my skin gets itchy-hot when I run. I see men running shirtless in Feb and wonder how they stand it, but I assume it's because that's what they prefer/is comfortable. I've never seen people jogging and thought they are wearing something that they otherwise wouldn't in order to...appear sexy while running down the road? I guess maybe that's not impossible. I have friends who do cross fit and it's always leggings, sports bra, and huge tank top that shows the sides of the bra. But it's functional to what they are doing, not a fashion statement for the most part. The men wear less or the same (minus a bra, of course).

For beach volleyball, I feel like there is some culture of being on the beach in a swim suit, however that looks, and it's mostly young people who are very fit and there is probably some degree of showing off one's body. But playing volley ball in the sand, it seems like a swim suit, even a bikini, is not a weird choice of attire. I remember seeing one olympics or championship where it was colder than usual so the women wore zip-up jackets until they got too hot during the game.

But when you look at winter sports, it's not like women are out there snowboarding and skiing in clothing that's more revealing than the men or anything. They wear what's functional for the sport, right? So I don't think it's universal that women are being dressed or dressing for sexiness in sport.

 

 

No, I agree it's not bad in gymnastics.  The older suits are a little less revealing, but not much.

I was thinking more of the beach vollyball outfits.  

[EmseB]

19 minutes ago, frogger said:

 

 

I noticed in more recent olympics suits of both men and women went down the thighs a ways. I was thinking maybe it makes them more streamlined.

The technical suits are designed with a fabric to eliminate drag. Before that technology was around the best way to get the least amount of drag was to wear the tiniest suit and shave off all hair. But those technical suits are hundreds of dollars and last for not very long so AFAIK practice is still done in speedos.

[Bluegoat]

The whole fashion industry is sexualising of women, for profit.  This is not something that is just about individuals having dirty minds.  It goes on throughout a lot of the media, advertising, etc.

If it didn't trickle down to people's choices in daily clothing, at the beach, at work, playing sports, they'd stop, because it would no longer be profitable.

I am kind of shocked that this aspect of the fashion/music/tv industry is news to people.

[Jean in Newcastle]

The athletic community is not exactly filled with the "Kim Kardashians" of the world.  Not the serious athletic community anyway.  (My apologies to Kim, who does apparently exercise but is not someone who I would consider a serious athlete.)

[wintermom]

39 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

The whole fashion industry is sexualising of women, for profit.  This is not something that is just about individuals having dirty minds.  It goes on throughout a lot of the media, advertising, etc.

If it didn't trickle down to people's choices in daily clothing, at the beach, at work, playing sports, they'd stop, because it would no longer be profitable.

I am kind of shocked that this aspect of the fashion/music/tv industry is news to people.

My goodness. Don't you ever exercise and get heated up? There is a function to athletic clothing. It's a mind-set like you are expressing here that made it so challenging for female athletes to finally shed layers and layers of clothing so that they could actually move and be comfortable while active. 

If it was so important for people to see women's athletics for ANY reason, there would be a lot more of it on TV. There isn't. The money and TV coverage goes to men's sports.

Edited February 14, 2019 by wintermom