s/o measles- skepticism and lifestyles

[Tanaqui]

7 hours ago, Pen said:

 

I agree.

 

I chose this clip not because of the vaccination issue raised on it, but because it is short and I think not too extreme or triggering.

 

I see and hear kids that act / sound like this frequently nowadays.

I didn’t when I was younger.

And I personally don’t buy it that lots of people had parents and grandparents like this but just not diagnosed.

 

People increasingly keep their severely disabled children home instead of having them cared for elsewhere. This isn't very difficult to explain.

[DesertBlossom]

26 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

regarding the skepticism, I do find it funny that some people will pontificate about how vaccines can't be trusted because pharmaceutical companies are in it for the money, and then shell out big money to MLM essential oil and vitamin companies. Um, those aren't exactly nonprofit!

It's a lot more complicated than that though. In the 1980s Congress made it so you couldn't sue vaccine makers of your child was killed or injured by their product. Afterwards there was a significant increase in the number of vaccines added to the childhood schedule, which include some of those vaccines that people are most skeptical about. For many, the safety testing has been inadequate and vaccines have been added to the schedule under the assumption that an infant can handle that many vaccines at once.

What other manufacturer has zero liability for their products and a guaranteed customer base? It's no wonder people are skeptical. Children weren't dying off in the 80s back when there were fewer vaccines and a lot lower vaccine rates. There are a lot of people in the middle who are not anti-vaccine who are still concerned about the number of vaccines given and who selectively vaccinate.

 

[Tanaqui]

Quote

Children weren't dying off in the 80s back when there were fewer vaccines and a lot lower vaccine rates.

 

Just gonna point out that people say the same thing about carseats, but those of us who didn't make it to adulthood aren't around to contest the point.

[geodob]

While 'vaccine makers' can't be sued for adverse reactions to vaccines.
Back in the 1980's, the US Govt established the " National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program."
Which is funded by a tax of about 10 cents on every vaccine dose,
The Compensation Program, is a 'no-fault' process.  Which uses a correlation to determine eligibility,
Here's a link to it:
https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/index.html

[BooksandBoys]

18 hours ago, DesertBlossom said:

Just pointing out again that if they follow the CDC's recommended schedule babies are vaccinated on the first day of life. At 2 months they receive several more vaccines. Again at 4 months, 6 months, etc. So just because a baby was "different from birth" does not rule out vaccines at all. I can link it later, but a recent study showed the Hep B vaccine (given on day 1) can cause neurological damage. 

I say this all the time, but here’s my own anecdote: 

No vaccines during pregnancy. No vaccines at birth. No extras (vitamin K, etc). Zero vaccines for my oldest until he was 2 months old, then delayed schedule (we fully vaccinate...slowly). I knew he was autistic when he was 3 days old. 

My second child, born different. People at the hospital made comments about it. I didn’t know it would later be diagnosed as autism, but I knew he was different, in pain, miserable. I knew he never stopped crying and that something was wrong. No vaccines at birth or during pregnancy. No vaccines until 2 months. 

But my husband’s side of the family is full of undiagnosed autistic people.

I’m skeptical too. My oldest reacted mildly to vaccines, which motivated me to continue the delayed schedule we had begun by delaying Hep B. We avoid plastics, fillers, pesticides, etc as much as possible. My kids are riddled with food intolerances/allergies, so I wonder about that link. I’m very interested in the future of the folic acid/D/serotonin/etc research. 

But, my kids were NOT vaccinated at birth or in pregnancy. And we KNEW when they were newborns. 

[Katy]

18 hours ago, DesertBlossom said:

And you're welcome to make that argument for the necessity of Hep B. My point was, don't point out that a baby was different from birth like it's proof vaccines are not having an effect on them.

 

My point was that some of the people in my family were born before 1991 and didn't have the vaccine at birth, so in that case and in the case of the home birth vaccines were NOT a factor.

[DesertBlossom]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

 

My point was that some of the people in my family were born before 1991 and didn't have the vaccine at birth, so in that case and in the case of the home birth vaccines were NOT a factor.

I'm happy for you that your family members were not affected by vaccines. 

Nevertheless, starting vaccines on day 1 of life certainly muddies the argument and makes it difficult to tell. There are countless mother's whose babies screamed for days after each round of vaccines, then began a descent into a myriad of health problems. Doctor's call it coincidence or describe it as a normal reaction, while mother's insist there is something wrong with their babies. I hear this story over and over and over again.  

[BeachGal]

3 hours ago, BooksandBoys said:

I say this all the time, but here’s my own anecdote: 

No vaccines during pregnancy. No vaccines at birth. No extras (vitamin K, etc). Zero vaccines for my oldest until he was 2 months old, then delayed schedule (we fully vaccinate...slowly). I knew he was autistic when he was 3 days old. 

My second child, born different. People at the hospital made comments about it. I didn’t know it would later be diagnosed as autism, but I knew he was different, in pain, miserable. I knew he never stopped crying and that something was wrong. No vaccines at birth or during pregnancy. No vaccines until 2 months. 

But my husband’s side of the family is full of undiagnosed autistic people.

I’m skeptical too. My oldest reacted mildly to vaccines, which motivated me to continue the delayed schedule we had begun by delaying Hep B. We avoid plastics, fillers, pesticides, etc as much as possible. My kids are riddled with food intolerances/allergies, so I wonder about that link. I’m very interested in the future of the folic acid/D/serotonin/etc research. 

But, my kids were NOT vaccinated at birth or in pregnancy. And we KNEW when they were newborns. 

 

Researcher Rhonda Patrick mentions autism studies every now and then at her site, FoundMyFitness, and her Instagram, Facebook and Twitter accounts as well. Additionally, other researchers and physicians often chime in with even more research and observations in the comments sections.

Here is something from 2016 where she mentions a study that improved autism symptoms. Children with autism were given 300 IU d3/kg/day. Rhonda likes Nordic Naturals d3 drops.

https://mobile.twitter.com/foundmyfitness/status/801765667523461120?lang=en

IMO, she is someone worth following for many health issues or for advice on living a long and healthy life.

ETA: Rhonda talking about vitamin d during pregnancy:

Quote

 

Low levels of vitamin D had been linked to autism and low levels of serotonin in the brain had also been linked to autism, however, until my work linking vitamin D more directly to serotonin, nobody had put the two together. Serotonin is so much more than a neurotransmitter. During early brain development serotonin actually acts as a brain morphogen because it shapes the structure and wiring of the brain. Serotonin tells neurons where they should go and what type of specific neurons they should become. It is literally acting as a growth factor in that sense during early brain development. Several studies have shown in mice that inhibiting the production of serotonin in early brain development causes functional and structural abnormalities in the brain, some of which manifest later in behavior that is said to resemble some autistic-like behaviors, insofar as mice can mirror the complexity of human behavior. Since vitamin D is required to activate this gene that produces serotonin, and the developing fetus depends on the mother’s vitamin D levels, if the mother is low in vitamin D then there may not be enough for the developing brain to produce serotonin. This could lead to abnormal brain development and autism, particularly in combination with other gene polymorphisms that already increase autism risk. 

The other way in which the vitamin D-serotonin pathway may influence autism is by keeping the autoimmune response during pregnancy at bay. What is interesting is that mothers with autistic children are three times more likely to have high levels of antibodies against fetal brain protein in their blood cells. Said another way, they are three times more likely to show signs that their immune system was actively engaged against the developing fetal brain. There is really no good explanation as to why, but it suggests that the developing fetus may be recognized as “foreign” in these women. This may cause the immune cells to actually make antibodies that attack proteins in the developing brain, which could alter the way the brain develops. In fact, this has been shown in pregnant monkeys.

 

https://goop.com/wellness/health/the-nuances-of-vitamin-d-and-how-to-get-enough-of-it/

Edited February 13, 2019 by BeachGal
Added a link

[73349]

IDK, watching my 6-month-old lean forward in a shopping cart so he could suck on the handle cured any concerns I may have had about exposing his little immune system to multiple vaccines at once.

I lean pretty crunchy--that straw bale house and growing your own veggies lifestyle sounds great--but I consider the scientific consensus on vaccines robust enough.

I wonder how survey results would look if we asked populations about a cross-section of topics such as enthusiasm for science, household members' health, beliefs about vaccines, beliefs about climate change (probably 40-50 years ago, plate tectonics would've been a similar question), behaviors like screening food labels for wanted or unwanted ingredients, behaviors like homeschooling one's children, habits of media use (print/broadcast/online), and household income. Would any kind of patterns emerge?

[moonflower]

17 minutes ago, whitehawk said:

IDK, watching my 6-month-old lean forward in a shopping cart so he could suck on the handle cured any concerns I may have had about exposing his little immune system to multiple vaccines at once.

I lean pretty crunchy--that straw bale house and growing your own veggies lifestyle sounds great--but I consider the scientific consensus on vaccines robust enough.

I wonder how survey results would look if we asked populations about a cross-section of topics such as enthusiasm for science, household members' health, beliefs about vaccines, beliefs about climate change (probably 40-50 years ago, plate tectonics would've been a similar question), behaviors like screening food labels for wanted or unwanted ingredients, behaviors like homeschooling one's children, habits of media use (print/broadcast/online), and household income. Would any kind of patterns emerge?

 

I think there are at least (in my limited personal experience) two  ideological "types" of people who don't vaccinate - one is very attachment parenting, hippie-liberal, unschooling; the other is All Government Is Suspect, deeply religious, conservative.  Thus, there's not a lot you can assume, imo, based on people's refusal to vaccinate, except that they don't vaccinate.

fwiw, I like science but I am skeptical of it as foundational ideology; we're all super healthy, we selectively vax, I accept that the climate is changing but I neither completely accept that humans are the main driver of it nor do I think it's going to be unsolvably disastrous nor, tbh, do I particularly think about it as it seems like even the main sources of human contribution are things I either have no control over (industrializing nations who want their chance too) or already do (I don't eat farmed animal products or drive a gas guzzler), I read all food labels of everything I buy without exception, we homeschool when the local schools are unacceptable (which is usually, but not right now), we don't have a TV or streaming service or tablets or smartphones, and we're in the top 5% for income in the US, although we have 7 kids so it's not as great as it sounds and we don't have things like multiple cars or vacation homes or designer clothes or anything.

[Tanaqui]

Horseshoe theory in action, Moonflower. Or, as I've heard it said, "The health food aisle is where the far right and the far left meet up and compare notes". I'd bet that a lot - not all, but a lot! - of the vaccine deniers on both ends of the political spectrum also: eat mostly whole/organic foods, cloth diaper, homeschool (even if for different reasons), live more "off the land" than their neighbors OR deliberately move out to where everybody does so, limit screens for their kids, avoid sugar, avoid fluoride....

Edited February 14, 2019 by Tanaqui