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omishev
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DD is in first grade and we will be homeschooling next year. Spelling has been a nightmare. She has 20 words and a lot of times it is tricky (-ite vs -ight words one week,  -ir vs -er vs -ur words another week). She is still dealing with letter and number reversals so she just isn't ready. Her teacher generously offered to give her a shorter list for the rest of the year so that has helped her attitude and performance greatly. My question is if we should even do spelling next year (2nd) or take a break or start below grade level? I don't know much about elementary ed but to me it seems like she would pick up on -ite vs -ight words as she reads. She is behind grade level for reading so maybe she just needs spelling words that are at her reading level. Or maybe just practice spelling words that relate to other subjects we are studying? Words from our science or history lessons?

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31 minutes ago, omishev said:

My question is if we should even do spelling next year (2nd) or take a break or start below grade level? 

In my view, the spelling that she is doing now is very much above "grade level", and she might be best served by starting at the beginning next year and working on spelling words that actually around a 1st/2nd grade level.

I normally start using All About Spelling with my kids in first grade.  Level 1 starts VERY gently - it deals almost entirely with simple short vowel words.  Kids don't start grappling with "-ight" words until level 3...and by that point they have built up a firm spelling foundation.

Personally I would not choose spelling words from science or history.  Most of those words are going to be far above her level, and asking her to spell them will just be a frustrating exercise in rote memorization.  I would much rather keep those subjects light and fun and stress-free and not worry about spelling or handwriting or even any output at all at that age.

Wendy

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1 hour ago, omishev said:

My question is if we should even do spelling next year (2nd) or take a break or start below grade level? I don't know much about elementary ed but to me it seems like she would pick up on -ite vs -ight words as she reads. She is behind grade level for reading so maybe she just needs spelling words that are at her reading level.

Spelling is a harder skill than reading, so spelling skill tends to lag behind reading skill.  I didn't start spelling-as-spelling until my kids were reading well.  We did a spell-your-way-into-reading approach - so that they heard the word, spelled the word (with guidance in choosing the correct spelling for each sound), and then read back what they spelled.  So they were spelling (with guidance) right at their reading level.  It was great for learning to read, but it didn't do much for their ability to spell (which kind of surprised me).  So once they were reading well (end of 2nd), I started spelling from the beginning, tying it into learning cursive.

Also, ymmv, but I've been surprised at how much my kids *haven't* picked up spelling from reading.  I mean, I'm sure the exposure helped, but it wasn't enough.  I was a natural speller, and I've been surprised at how much deliberate spelling work my kids have needed.

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1 hour ago, omishev said:

DD is in first grade and we will be homeschooling next year. Spelling has been a nightmare. She has 20 words and a lot of times it is tricky (-ite vs -ight words one week,  -ir vs -er vs -ur words another week). She is still dealing with letter and number reversals so she just isn't ready. Her teacher generously offered to give her a shorter list for the rest of the year so that has helped her attitude and performance greatly. My question is if we should even do spelling next year (2nd) or take a break or start below grade level? I don't know much about elementary ed but to me it seems like she would pick up on -ite vs -ight words as she reads. She is behind grade level for reading so maybe she just needs spelling words that are at her reading level. Or maybe just practice spelling words that relate to other subjects we are studying? Words from our science or history lessons?

Bless her heart.

My advice would be a little different: Instead of spelling, do Spalding, which teaches children to read by teaching them to spell. It also simultaneously teaches penmanship, capitalization and punctuation, and simple writing. It's a complete English literacy course, for less than $50. 🙂

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Try looking at Traditional Spelling from Memoria Press. It will be more on her level.

https://www.memoriapress.com/curriculum/phonics-and-early-reading/

For my very struggling reader, the combination of Traditional Spelling and then the Reading program from Memoria Press were an enormous blessing.  The amount of writing was just enough to seal the deal for her success without being over the top.

I only wish I had known about it with my older girl, which really struggled to read as well.  It would have saved a lot of tears!

(And I totally agree with the PP that those words seem waaay above grade level.  A lot of phonics work comes before knowing -ight vs. -ite, etc.)

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3 hours ago, wendyroo said:

In my view, the spelling that she is doing now is very much above "grade level", and she might be best served by starting at the beginning next year and working on spelling words that actually around a 1st/2nd grade level.

I normally start using All About Spelling with my kids in first grade.  Level 1 starts VERY gently - it deals almost entirely with simple short vowel words.  Kids don't start grappling with "-ight" words until level 3...and by that point they have built up a firm spelling foundation.

Personally I would not choose spelling words from science or history.  Most of those words are going to be far above her level, and asking her to spell them will just be a frustrating exercise in rote memorization.  I would much rather keep those subjects light and fun and stress-free and not worry about spelling or handwriting or even any output at all at that age.

Wendy

Thank you! I am glad it isn't just me. I have no idea how the rest of the class is doing with it but for my DD it is way too much. She was so overwhelmed that just writing out the words 2x (assigned homework each weekend) was taking 1-2 hours and that really pushed me over the edge to decide to homeschool. 

I will check out All About Spelling. That sounds like about the right speed! 

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That is a lot!

I would just do a bit and incorporate it into phonics.

I would do the reading assessments at the end of my syllables page, if the school did sight words or accelerated reader or guided reading or used leveled readers, you likely have some guessing habits to overcome, the MWIA and nonsense word test scores will give you an idea, my syllables program and my phonics concentration game are good for overcoming guessing habits.

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On Reading/syllablesspellsu.html

 

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I don't do spelling as a separate subject until the child can read fluently, which is usually 3rd grade. Before then we do a phonics program. I use Rod and Staff. Since your daughter isn't on grade level for reading, I would start her off with a solid phonics based reading curriculum and not worry about spelling right now.

Susan in TX

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I started spelling with my first grader at the beginning of this school year. I figured that he was ready because he was a decent reader and we had used a program that teaches reading through spelling.  But no. We quickly dropped it and will probably try again next year for 2nd grade. 

Edited by happynurse
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Agreeing that ite and ight words for a 1st grader are totally not age appropriate! My 1st grader is a pretty fluent reader (currently reading simple chapter books like Magic Tree House) and she's still working on consonant blends and plural words for spelling. We use AAS and I really agree with the philosophy that reading and spelling are two very separate skill sets. We usually start AAS when they are able to fluently read simple words without laboriously sounding out every.single.letter.

Reading a lot does eventually help with proper spelling, but in my experience that doesn't usually click until much, much older, like the teen years. So explicit spelling instruction in the elementary years is pretty crucial.

Edited by Momto5inIN
Eta: it was crucial for my poor speller so he didn't look/sound completely illiterate in his writing :) But also for my natural speller who learned to read in ps by guessing and sight words and didn't have a firm grasp of phonics
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We started slowly with spelling.  I mean, we tried using intensive programs like AAS, but you know what we ended up gravitating to in 1st?  An older book called Spell Correctly that was a public school textbook in the 60s and 70s.  It made sense because it was very gentle, teaching easily sounded out words in the first grade book so that students were focused on listening for the sounds.  Toward the end it started stressing long sounds and using 'silent e' and 'ing'.  It was a good foundation, but we could have done the same on our own if I had thought about it.

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On February 12, 2019 at 9:18 AM, omishev said:

DD is in first grade and we will be homeschooling next year. Spelling has been a nightmare. She has 20 words and a lot of times it is tricky (-ite vs -ight words one week,  -ir vs -er vs -ur words another week). She is still dealing with letter and number reversals so she just isn't ready.

Is this a private school or public? It sounds like she fell into a school that is heavily into Spalding or another approach that blends early reading and spelling introduction. This can be FINE for a lot of kids and gets really great results in general. However it sounds like your dd, if she were in the ps, would be ready for some evals to see if more is going on. Reversals into 1st grade are concerning, especially in the context of possible phonological problems, etc. 

On February 12, 2019 at 9:18 AM, omishev said:

she just needs spelling words that are at her reading level.

Yes, her spelling list should reflect what she is being taught to decode. It sounds like the class is ahead of where she is and that she needs customized instruction. Why are you waiting until next year? I would require them to do an IEP and begin RTI *now* or hire an after school tutor or begin instruction yourself after school or pull her out. The ADA actually recommends identification of reading disabilities in 1st grade so it is NOT jumping the gun to want intervention on this now. Beginning intervention (more explicit  teaching) in 1st grade is ideal and can head off longer problems and results in better outcomes. Delaying explicit instruction is an unnecessary delay. She should probably have a CTOPP or the TILLS or other screening by a qualified evaluator before beginning pullout instruction. If you find an SLP who specializes in reading, they could do this affordably without the hoops of the full psych eval. Then if the brief SLP testing shows anything, then do the full psych evals either through the ps or privately. 

AAS may or may not be enough. The same author has their AAR program, which would be an appropriate place to start. 

Given her level of frustration, I would probably run the Barton screening tool. It's free, totally free, takes under 15 minutes, and will screen for basic factors that affect her ability to succeed with ANY reading program. https://bartonreading.com/students/  Also, have you had her eyes checked? Spelling is such a visual task, and a good basic eye exam is always a good thing. I'm a big fan of using a developmental optometrist, which you find through COVD, because they can screen for extra things that affect vision and reading. I just took my ds in yesterday for a good, thorough check. He has significant reading issues, and we're always sorting out what part is eyes, what is decoding, what is the autism and language disability, etc. So I'm a fan of *eliminating* things as possible causes, especially when they don't cost much or are kinda normal things to do anyway. And, my dd, who was crunchy learning to read but did finally have it come together well, turned out to have some really nasty convergence issues that resulted in poor visual memory that caused spelling problems and headaches later. We ended up doing VT (vision therapy) with her. 

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On 2/15/2019 at 8:33 AM, PeterPan said:

Is this a private school or public?

I would require them to do an IEP and begin RTI *now* or hire an after school tutor or begin instruction yourself after school or pull her out. The ADA actually recommends identification of reading disabilities in 1st grade so it is NOT jumping the gun to want intervention on this now. Beginning intervention (more explicit  teaching) in 1st grade is ideal and can head off longer problems and results in better outcomes. Delaying explicit instruction is an unnecessary delay. She should probably have a CTOPP or the TILLS or other screening by a qualified evaluator before beginning pullout instruction. If you find an SLP who specializes in reading, they could do this affordably without the hoops of the full psych eval. Then if the brief SLP testing shows anything, then do the full psych evals either through the ps or privately. 

AAS may or may not be enough. The same author has their AAR program, which would be an appropriate place to start. 

Given her level of frustration, I would probably run the Barton screening tool. It's free, totally free, takes under 15 minutes, and will screen for basic factors that affect her ability to succeed with ANY reading program. https://bartonreading.com/students/  Also, have you had her eyes checked? Spelling is such a visual task, and a good basic eye exam is always a good thing. I'm a big fan of using a developmental optometrist, which you find through COVD, because they can screen for extra things that affect vision and reading. I just took my ds in yesterday for a good, thorough check. 

Private school. If it were public school we probably would not have even started this year, definitely would not have made it to Christmas but we payed for the whole year LAST FEB so we are trying to make it work (she does really enjoy school).

Wow thank you for all the recommendations! Can you tell me what some of those abbreviations are? 

Also, being a private school I don't think they even do testing there?? I should have listened to my gut! Multiple teachers/administrators have assured me that it is not uncommon for students to still struggle with reversals at her age and she is progressing fine but I help in her Sunday school class so I see what the other kids her age are reading and writing and she is significantly behind. I think they didn't want me to feel like something was wrong with her but if she needs help I want to know ASAP! 

We do have an eye appointment scheduled for next week so I will mention her trouble reading and reversals.

Thank you!

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2 hours ago, omishev said:

We do have an eye appointment scheduled for next week

With a developmental optometrist or a regular one? You might check to see if you can find a good developmental optometrist and not bother with the regular one. The wait won't be that long, and they can screen for convergence, etc. Dyslexia is not a vision problem, but vision problems will make any reading challenge worse.

2 hours ago, omishev said:

I think they didn't want me to feel like something was wrong with her

Well the best way to sort that out is with data. Around here, I can get a certified OG reading tutor to run the CTOPP and the DAR (so a test of phonological processing and a reading level test) for just $75. That's a lotta info for $75. And at that point you can make your own assessment about whether her progress is appropriate or not. 

As far as the abbreviations, google them, as they're pretty common. Definitely do that Barton pretest. You just print and administer, won't take long. 

This is the right age to be asking the questions. You're just looking for the simplest way to get some info so you can sort out whether it's a bigger deal or not. I would go by the data, not administrator assurances.

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