Ugh help

[hippiemamato3]

Just now, HomeAgain said:

Or red flag.
Immediately not having access and being without transportation can create an unhealthy dynamic between the couple, with power on his side.

I hope for their sake it works out or she finds out quickly how to stand as an adult.

I would assume his car is now her car...and they will figure out how to share. Nothing we've read so far indicates he is controlling or abusive to her. 

[unsinkable]

12 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Am I suppose to say Got Me?

 Don’t consider a joke to be a lie. If someone else does I guess they should do it. 

Say whatever you want. But you've been pretty adamant that the Truth is paramount, and yet..

i also noticed you don't have the subject in this sentence: "Don't consider a joke to be a lie."

so did you drop the subject or is that an imperative sentence with (You) understood to be the subject?

[Bluegoat]

2 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

When she says they “bought it”, that’s deception, not a joke.  A joke is where there is an understood premise being created for humor.  That was gross.

 

I’ll grant that you didn’t mean what you said here in haste, Scarlett, but that IS how it came across.

 

I don't think that sounds like an odd joke.  It would be pretty typical joking in my family for someone to say something that is outrageous in such a way that people believed it, until they were let in on it or thought "wait... did that really happen?"  The more outrageous it is, and the longer they fall for it, (at the time, not hours later) the more successful the joke.  It would be different if she'd said it to someone who would find it personally hurtful, but that isn't the case with her immediate family.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Bluegoat

[Scarlett]

23 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

Say whatever you want. But you've been pretty adamant that the Truth is paramount, and yet..

i also noticed you don't have the subject in this sentence: "Don't consider a joke to be a lie."

so did you drop the subject or is that an imperative sentence with (You) understood to be the subject?

I edited it.  I was just posting too fast. 

[unsinkable]

But was the bride beautiful?

[Scarlett]

29 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

I would assume his car is now her car...and they will figure out how to share. Nothing we've read so far indicates he is controlling or abusive to her. 

I have seen no sign of abuse or control.  Quite the opposite....he seems to missing something...

Last night our family was discussing it....and I said, 'well I would not want the stress of not knowing where I was going to live even if I did get a free place in the end'  My 17 year old summed it up well, 'He is missing something. The part of a normal person's brain that say, 'Oh No!  This is very concerning and stressful!'  he doesn't have that.  It is totally missing from his brain.'

And it is true......Alllll through this process since he was booted out of his parents house (nicely, as in son it is time for you to grow up) he has showed zero concern about where he will be sleeping that night.  He stayed for a few weeks with one of our friends (a 24 year old man) .  The apartment is very small and the guest was a horrible guest.....came in at all hours of the night and left his stuff everywhere.  So our friend booted him out...'hey man this isn't working.'  The he went and spent a few weeks with the girl's family......well that last a few weeks until someone complained about how inappropriate it was.Then he was steered by a 'helpful' adult to the elderly couple's house where the plan was 'a few weeks' until he could get an apartment.  7 plus months later and 48 hours from his wedding, they were loading up their van with his stuff and taking it to the free house he had been offered. She called me Friday afternoon and said, 'we are free!!!' 

On Wednesday she and her mother were at a small luncheon thrown for the girl by a friend (for just the moms, bride, grandma) and the entire time they were there the mom and bride were on their phones trying to find a place for the couple to live.  It has been just unbelievable.

So yeah, my concern is that this young girl is the adult in this relationship.  But I guess she will figure out how to deal with him. 

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, unsinkable said:

But was the bride beautiful?

Yes. She was beautiful.  She is always beautiful.  Her dress was gorgeous.  Her gorgeous waist length curly hair was straightened and the color was changed so it was a little jarring, but by the look on the groom's face he is thrilled with everything about her.  

[PeachyDoodle]

6 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Last night our family was discussing it....and I said, 'well I would not want the stress of not knowing where I was going to live even if I did get a free place in the end'  My 17 year old summed it up well, 'He is missing something. The part of a normal person's brain that say, 'Oh No!  This is very concerning and stressful!'  he doesn't have that.  It is totally missing from his brain.'

You know, some people are just like that. And what's crazy is that life often seems to have a way of working out for them. In some ways, as a type-A who stresses over ev.ery.thing. I envy them.

I'm glad the wedding was beautiful and the bride and groom seem content. I wish them well from afar.

(Also, I don't consider what you did to your family afterwards a lie. More akin to a prank like at April Fool's. And I thought it was funny!)

[Scarlett]

6 minutes ago, PeachyDoodle said:

You know, some people are just like that. And what's crazy is that life often seems to have a way of working out for them. In some ways, as a type-A who stresses over ev.ery.thing. I envy them.

I'm glad the wedding was beautiful and the bride and groom seem content. I wish them well from afar.

(Also, I don't consider what you did to your family afterwards a lie. More akin to a prank like at April Fool's. And I thought it was funny!)

I do envy people who don't seem to stress.  But there is a limit to what is acceptable, I think.  For instance when your lack of stressing infringes on other's peace(especially your wife!)  that is a problem.  Taking advantage of other's kindness and hospitality is a problem.  Expecting other people to solve your problems.....that is a problem.  

[Scarlett]

8 minutes ago, PeachyDoodle said:

You know, some people are just like that. And what's crazy is that life often seems to have a way of working out for them. In some ways, as a type-A who stresses over ev.ery.thing. I envy them.

I'm glad the wedding was beautiful and the bride and groom seem content. I wish them well from afar.

(Also, I don't consider what you did to your family afterwards a lie. More akin to a prank like at April Fool's. And I thought it was funny!)

Thank you.  🙂  It was very funny.  The look on their faces....ds's girlfriend and I about fell over laughing at them.  

[unsinkable]

43 minutes ago, PeachyDoodle said:

You know, some people are just like that. And what's crazy is that life often seems to have a way of working out for them. In some ways, as a type-A who stresses over ev.ery.thing. I envy them.

I'm glad the wedding was beautiful and the bride and groom seem content. I wish them well from afar.

(Also, I don't consider what you did to your family afterwards a lie. More akin to a prank like at April Fool's. And I thought it was funny!)

Do you know some people are highly offended by pranks, tricks, April Fool's jokes bc they feel it erodes their trust in the prankster?

34 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Thank you.  🙂  It was very funny.  The look on their faces....ds's girlfriend and I about fell over laughing at them.  

So it is okay to make up a story*, paint a picture*, indicate that a situation happened that really didn't happen* as long as you are doing it to make others laugh?

*and this is not lying, according to you.

[Bluegoat]

I think that level of not liking a joke is pretty unusual though, guys.  And it's totally misleading to call it a lie. 

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Arctic Mama said:

The bolded is our family, exactly.  Some of my kids more than others.  We have a great sense of humor and joke around all the time but it’s very clear where the boundaries of the joke are; and they aren’t done at the expense of others.  Nor do we do physical pranks.  We aren’t comfortable with something involving making someone look foolish unless they’re spearheading it against themselves (like silly dress up or telling a joke about their own experience).

 

But yeah; truth is highly valued here, to the point where we try not to even exaggerate if we can help it.  That’s probably why I found the statement so utterly jarring.  I’d be horribly offended if family or friend’s represented something to me like that which was plainly untrue, and it wouldn’t be funny at all.  I’d just wonder what else they might have lied about that I didn’t catch.

Remind me to never joke with you.

No one in my family felt lied to.  They all thought it was funny.  I knew they would. I would not have said the same thing to someone outside my family which and obviously I erred by sharing it here.  

This entire situation has been very upsetting to my entire family for a number of reasons. I went to the wedding in an effort to model kindness and love to my kids and to the family friends whose dd just got married.  My husband has struggled over the entire thing and we have not seen eye to eye on it.  So a little laugh was very refreshing at the end of the day for us.  

[EmseB]

2 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

I think that level of not liking a joke is pretty unusual though, guys.  And it's totally misleading to call it a lie. 

We joke like that in our family as well. A lot of times it breaks the tension of a stressful situation. We're dry humor, sarcasm, sometimes a little bit dark. My family would think nothing of me telling a story like that after an evening that was kind of a tense situation for all of us and then saying, "No, not really, it was pretty much a regular, boring wedding."  I often say things like, "And then I gave that guy a piece of my mind and said, 'blah, blah, blah,'" and my husband will go, "You said that?!" "No, but I was thinking it." And we both joke that way. I think it would depend on family culture

[PeachyDoodle]

24 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

o you know some people are highly offended by pranks, tricks, April Fool's jokes bc they feel it erodes their trust in the prankster?

Okay? And?

I expect Scarlett knows this crowd well enough to know whether it would bother them. And it obviously didn't. They all had a good laugh.

I promise I won't prank you, should we ever meet.

[unsinkable]

1 minute ago, Bluegoat said:

I think that level of not liking a joke is pretty unusual though, guys.  And it's totally misleading to call it a lie. 

What is it then? When you relay a situation that did not happen? 

Maybe you weren't in the thread where I was called a liar (and it was indicated that I was a compulsive liar) bc I occasionally tell cashiers I think their earrings are pretty even if I don't think they are. Among other things.

Wouldn't it have been funny to say:

"Could you imagine if..." And then Scarlett says "someone stode up in church..." etc, etc. ..

[PeachyDoodle]

1 minute ago, EmseB said:

We joke like that in our family as well. A lot of times it breaks the tension of a stressful situation. We're dry humor, sarcasm, sometimes a little bit dark. My family would think nothing of me telling a story like that after an evening that was kind of a tense situation for all of us and then saying, "No, not really, it was pretty much a regular, boring wedding."  I often say things like, "And then I gave that guy a piece of my mind and said, 'blah, blah, blah,'" and my husband will go, "You said that?!" "No, but I was thinking it." And we both joke that way. I think it would depend on family culture

Yep. Us too.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, unsinkable said:

What is it then? When you relay a situation that did not happen? 

Maybe you weren't in the thread where I was called a liar (and it was indicated that I was a compulsive liar) bc I occasionally tell cashiers I think their earrings are pretty even if I don't think they are. Among other things.

Wouldn't it have been funny to say:

"Could you imagine if..." And then Scarlett says "someone stode up in church..." etc, etc. ..

I said I felt it was wrong/lie to tell a cashier you think her ear rings are pretty when you actually think they are ugly. Although I thought that was Cats story.  But anyway, that is my opinion.  I would never do that.  I don’t think my joke to my family is even in the same ballpark. But hey if you think it is wrong, don’t do it.

 

[unsinkable]

2 minutes ago, PeachyDoodle said:

Okay? And?

I expect Scarlett knows this crowd well enough to know whether it would bother them. And it obviously didn't. They all had a good laugh.

I promise I won't prank you, should we ever meet.

My point is Scarlett and others, maybe even you, were calling me a liar for telling cashiers their earrings are pretty if they are not. 

The thread was pretty black and white about what is a lie...And who the liars and who the truth tellers were. 

 

[unsinkable]

Just now, Scarlett said:

I said I felt it was wrong/lie to tell a cashier you think her ear rings are pretty when you actually think they are ugly. Although I thought that was Cats story.  But anyway, that is my opinion.  I would never do that.  I don’t think my joke to my family is even in the same ballpark. But hey if you think it is wrong, don’t do it.

 

No, it was not "Cat's story." 

It is something I do.

I didn't say you lying to your family to tell a joke is wrong. But I think you're being pretty dismissive about the concept of *telling the truth is not necessary if I'm joking.*

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, unsinkable said:

But was the bride beautiful?

 

Even if she wasn’t, I would have told her she was.

I may have also complimented her earrings.

I’m nice that way. 😉

[PeachyDoodle]

6 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

My point is Scarlett and others, maybe even you, were calling me a liar for telling cashiers their earrings are pretty if they are not. 

The thread was pretty black and white about what is a lie...And who the liars and who the truth tellers were. 

 

If you can find a place where I called you a liar, I will gladly apologize.

I don't recall that conversation at all, and I don't appreciate being lumped in with some other group you're ticked off at because I said I don't think a joke equates to a lie.

I still don't think a joke is the same as a LIE, and I still think Scarlett's prank on her family was funny. So sue me.

I'm not going to continue this absolutely ridiculous conversation but you can feel free to PM me if you find the place that I called you a liar want to cash in on that apology.

[Bluegoat]

13 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

What is it then? When you relay a situation that did not happen? 

Maybe you weren't in the thread where I was called a liar (and it was indicated that I was a compulsive liar) bc I occasionally tell cashiers I think their earrings are pretty even if I don't think they are. Among other things.

Wouldn't it have been funny to say:

"Could you imagine if..." And then Scarlett says "someone stode up in church..." etc, etc. ..

 

Well, that is a lie, for sure, though I don't know if it would be worth worrying about.

A joke is not a lie, any more than an actor in a tv show is telling a lie.  It only works because the person knows, or very shortly realises, that it isn't true - that is what makes it funny.

[Scarlett]

5 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

No, it was not "Cat's story." 

It is something I do.

I didn't say you lying to your family to tell a joke is wrong. But I think you're being pretty dismissive about the concept of *telling the truth is not necessary if I'm joking.*

You are right.  I am being dismissive.  It feels worthy of being dismissed.  Shrug.  And I feel you are just trying to make some point.  Which I assume is ‘not all lying is wrong’.  

I would still never tell a cashier her earrings are beautiful while thinking they are ugly.  That seems ugly to me.  If you are ok doing it, carry on.  

[unsinkable]

Just now, Bluegoat said:

 

Well, that is a lie, for sure, though I don't know if it would be worth worrying about.

A joke is not a lie, any more than an actor in a tv show is telling a lie.  It only works because the person knows, or very shortly realises, that it isn't true - that is what makes it funny.

We're not talking about fiction, TV shows, comedies, stand-up...everyone enters into that knowing the fiction. 

This is a family situation, with relationships based on truth and trust (supposed ly). Just like social situations are, too. 

So the only difference I see is that the joking liar tells the truth faster than the complimentary liar.

[Scarlett]

Just now, unsinkable said:

We're not talking about fiction, TV shows, comedies, stand-up...everyone enters into that knowing the fiction. 

This is a family situation, with relationships based on truth and trust (supposed ly). Just like social situations are, too. 

So the only difference I see is that the joking liar tells the truth faster than the complimentary liar.

So after you tell the cashier her earrings are beautiful you then say, ‘just kidding, I actually think they are ugly?’

[Scarlett]

My mom always told me it is only funny if both parties are laughing.  My tiny 15 second prank definitely made everyone laugh.  

[J-rap]

Okay... I think people are making a bigger deal of things in order to get a point across.  I think we can maybe all just agree to disagree, instead?

I'm one of the liars -- haha, I think telling an occasional "white lie" if it helps a person out and seems like a loving thing to do and doesn't have a negative impact is okay, and I feel no guilt for that at all.  (I don't even consider it "wrong, but okay."  I actually consider it "just fine.")  I don't care if people believe otherwise.  Whatever.  We all come from different places in life.  I'm generally about as honest as you can get.

And I think Scarlett's joke was perfectly fine too.  Those are totally different scenarios.  Our family might play a joke like that on each other.  No big deal.

 

[unsinkable]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

So after you tell the cashier her earrings are beautiful you then say, ‘just kidding, I actually think they are ugly?’

No, I'd not do that bc my point in telling her they are pretty is to be nice.

just like your lie was to get a laugh or laugh at your fami!y bc they believed you.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, unsinkable said:

No, I'd not do that bc my point in telling her they are pretty is to be nice.

just like your lie was to get a laugh or laugh at your fami!y bc they believed you.

You do you and I will do me.

But of course I would never believe a compliment from you. I mean not that you plan on giving me one..,but I would assume you actually mean the opposite.  

[unsinkable]

8 minutes ago, J-rap said:

Okay... I think people are making a bigger deal of things in order to get a point across.  I think we can maybe all just agree to disagree, instead?

I'm one of the liars -- haha, I think telling an occasional "white lie" if it helps a person out and seems like a loving thing to do and doesn't have a negative impact is okay, and I feel no guilt for that at all.  (I don't even consider it "wrong, but okay."  I actually consider it "just fine.")  I don't care if people believe otherwise.  Whatever.  We all come from different places in life.  I'm generally about as honest as you can get.

And I think Scarlett's joke was perfectly fine too.  Those are totally different scenarios.  Our family might play a joke like that on each other.  No big deal.

 

Hey, I wasn't the one calling people liars and that they are morally and socially deficient.

[Scarlett]

Just now, unsinkable said:

Hey, I wasn't the one calling people liars and that they are morally and socially deficient.

I didn’t do that either.  

[Catwoman]

8 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I said I felt it was wrong/lie to tell a cashier you think her ear rings are pretty when you actually think they are ugly. Although I thought that was Cats story.  But anyway, that is my opinion.  I would never do that.  I don’t think my joke to my family is even in the same ballpark. But hey if you think it is wrong, don’t do it.

 

 

Actually, quite a few people said they did the same thing.

I think the only reason a few people are posting about it in this thread is because you were so adamant in the other thread that there was no such thing as a harmless fib and that you are always so perfectly truthful with everyone all the time, and that even what many of us consider to be a harmless fib is harmful to society... and then you just shared a story about how you told a harmless fib to your family as a joke... and that was fine because you meant it in a good way, to make your family laugh. 

And the thing is... I agree that fibbing to make your family laugh is fine! But if a little offhand fib is fine in that case, then a little, “I like your earrings” fib to a cashier is pretty much the same thing because the intention is nice, too. 

And it’s not like you have always been all about Truth. I remember when you secretly installed a key logger on your now-ex-dh’s computer so you could spy on him and see if you could catch him cheating on you — and you have repeatedly recommended that other women do the same thing when face with similar suspicions. What was honest or truthful about that? Or was it ok to be deceitful because you were on a quest for the truth about your dh? Do two wrongs really make a right?

Hey, I thought you were right to do the key logger thing! I absolutely supported you when you did it, and I think it’s fine that you suggest the same tactic to other women when you think it will help them.

But is it HONEST? Is it TRUTHFUL?  No. Absolutely not. 

Is it HARMFUL? Yes. Absolutely yes. 

You act like fibbing to a cashier about he earrings is so harmful, yet you were completely dishonest with your own then-dh, and if it had turned out that he wasn’t cheating, your actions would have been incredibly harmful to your marriage, and he would have had every right to never trust you again.  And even though you caught him cheating, should you have used sneaky and dishonest methods to get that information? Isn’t it far worse for a person to have deceived her own spouse, who should be able to trust her to always be truthful, than for a person to have made a silly offhand comment to a stranger in the checkout line?

By your own standards, you should never have spied on your dh. But you did. And you were proud of yourself for being so clever. And you judge the people who occasionally tell little fibs to cashiers, as though you are somehow morally superior to them because you would never do such a terrible thing.

Kind of hypocritical, all things considered.... 

[Bluegoat]

17 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

We're not talking about fiction, TV shows, comedies, stand-up...everyone enters into that knowing the fiction. 

This is a family situation, with relationships based on truth and trust (supposed ly). Just like social situations are, too. 

So the only difference I see is that the joking liar tells the truth faster than the complimentary liar.

 

I will tell you, as someone who might have this done in her family, that someone saying something over the top, and having us wide-eyed for half a minute, would not be some kind of erosion of trust.  It just wouldn't.  It's a few moments of "holy moly" until you realise that it would be crazy if it were true, and then you laugh - together - about it.  It's not about the joker laughing at the others.

If your family doesn't like that sort of humour, that is fine, humour is a very individual thing.  Families have different cultures around this, as do different cultures.  That doesn't make it anti-social or a lie though.  

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Actually, quite a few people said they did the same thing.

I think the only reason a few people are posting about it in this thread is because you were so adamant in the other thread that there was no such thing as a harmless fib and that you are always so perfectly truthful with everyone all the time, and that even what many of us consider to be a harmless fib is harmful to society... and then you just shared a story about how you told a harmless fib to your family as a joke... and that was fine because you meant it in a good way, to make your family laugh. 

And the thing is... I agree that fibbing to make your family laugh is fine! But if a little offhand fib is fine in that case, then a little, “I like your earrings” fib to a cashier is pretty much the same thing because the intention is nice, too. 

And it’s not like you have always been all about Truth. I remember when you secretly installed a key logger on your now-ex-dh’s computer so you could spy on him and see if you could catch him cheating on you — and you have repeatedly recommended that other women do the same thing when face with similar suspicions. What was honest or truthful about that? Or was it ok to be deceitful because you were on a quest for the truth about your dh? Do two wrongs really make a right?

Hey, I thought you were right to do the key logger thing! I absolutely supported you when you did it, and I think it’s fine that you suggest the same tactic to other women when you think it will help them.

But is it HONEST? Is it TRUTHFUL?  No. Absolutely not. 

Is it HARMFUL? Yes. Absolutely yes. 

You act like fibbing to a cashier about he earrings is so harmful, yet you were completely dishonest with your own then-dh, and if it had turned out that he wasn’t cheating, your actions would have been incredibly harmful to your marriage, and he would have had every right to never trust you again.  And even though you caught him cheating, should you have used sneaky and dishonest methods to get that information? Isn’t it far worse for a person to have deceived her own spouse, who should be able to trust her to always be truthful, than for a person to have made a silly offhand comment to a stranger in the checkout line?

By your own standards, you should never have spied on your dh. But you did. And you were proud of yourself for being so clever. And you judge the people who occasionally tell little fibs to cashiers, as though you are somehow morally superior to them because you would never do such a terrible thing.

Kind of hypocritical, all things considered.... 

Like I said the other day Cat you don’t like it that someone disagreed with you. Also I NEVER said I never do anything wrong.  I also never said the earring lie was the worst ever.  I just said  thought it was wrong to do. You are free to disagree.  

As for putting a keylogger on my now xhs laptop? I won’t ever be convinced that was dishonest or wrong in any way.  But again you are free to disagree and to never put one on your husbands even if you suspect he is having sex with others.  

 

 

 

[unsinkable]

1 minute ago, Bluegoat said:

 

I will tell you, as someone who might have this done in her family, that someone saying something over the top, and having us wide-eyed for half a minute, would not be some kind of erosion of trust.  It just wouldn't.  It's a few moments of "holy moly" until you realise that it would be crazy if it were true, and then you laugh - together - about it.  It's not about the joker laughing at the others.

If your family doesn't like that sort of humour, that is fine, humour is a very individual thing.  Families have different cultures around this, as do different cultures.  That doesn't make it anti-social or a lie though.  

This isn't about my family and the jokes we tell or don't tell.

it is about people who think nothing of calling out liars but then do something that I see lying. And that no one has given me a good reason or explanation why it isn't lying..except *you do you. Whatever works for your family*

Which isn't an explanation about why lying to tell a joke is OK. Or it isn't a lie to begin with.

 

[Scarlett]

11 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

 

I will tell you, as someone who might have this done in her family, that someone saying something over the top, and having us wide-eyed for half a minute, would not be some kind of erosion of trust.  It just wouldn't.  It's a few moments of "holy moly" until you realise that it would be crazy if it were true, and then you laugh - together - about it.  It's not about the joker laughing at the others.

If your family doesn't like that sort of humour, that is fine, humour is a very individual thing.  Families have different cultures around this, as do different cultures.  That doesn't make it anti-social or a lie though.  

It was super funny. Which I feel has been overshadowed by a few people trying to make me out to be a liar.  We even carried on the idea after that.  Everyone saying different things that could have happened or we wished had happened.   It was a welcomed relief from the stress of the last few months.  

Edited March 11, 2019 by Scarlett

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

This isn't about my family and the jokes we tell or don't tell.

it is about people who think nothing of calling out liars but then do something that I see lying. And that no one has given me a good reason or explanation why it isn't lying..except *you do you. Whatever works for your family*

Which isn't an explanation about why lying to tell a joke is OK. Or it isn't a lie to begin with.

 

 

Call out liars? That thread was a poster asking a direct question about would this be wrong?  I gave my opinion like many people did.  If you or Cat feel ‘called out’ because I expressed that *i* felt  earring thing is a lie I don’t know what to say to that.  

 

[J-rap]

22 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

Hey, I wasn't the one calling people liars and that they are morally and socially deficient.

I agree.  

[Catwoman]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Like I said the other day Cat you don’t like it that someone disagreed with you. Also I NEVER said I never do anything wrong.  I also never said the earring lie was the worst ever.  I just said  thought it was wrong to do. You are free to disagree.  

As for putting a keylogger on my now xhs laptop? I won’t ever be convinced that was dishonest or wrong in any way.  But again you are free to disagree and to never put one on your husbands even if you suspect he is having sex with others.  

 

 

 

 

Come now, Scarlett. People disagree with me on this forum all the time, and I’m fine with it.

What I’m not fine with is your hypocritical attitude.

You can justify a HUGE DECEPTION like the keylogger thing because you wanted information. But it was ENTIRELY DISHONEST. It was sneaky and it was intentionally deceiving your own husband.

And stop playing the victim here. I already posted that I agreed with what you did. I already posted that I thought it was a good piece of advice when you recommended that other women do the same thing. But let’s not kid ourselves and act like it’s an honest and truthful thing to do. The only reason the secret keylogger thing works is because it is sneaky and covert and dishonest.

But you can justify your dishonesty as being perfectly fine and not harmful because it was what you wanted to do. 

What I’m saying is that you have no problem justifying your own lack of truthfulness, yet you judge others for something as trivial as complimenting a cashier’s earrings as being harmful to everyone, including society in general. 

So basically, if you do something, even if it’s a truly huge deception, it’s okay as long as you know you have a good reason for it, but if someone else does something way more minor, it’s harmful and bad, even if they feel they have a good reason, too. Because you say so. 

 

[EmseB]

15 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

This isn't about my family and the jokes we tell or don't tell.

it is about people who think nothing of calling out liars but then do something that I see lying. And that no one has given me a good reason or explanation why it isn't lying..except *you do you. Whatever works for your family*

Which isn't an explanation about why lying to tell a joke is OK. Or it isn't a lie to begin with.

 

After reading this back and forth I think this has more to do with people's posting history with Scarlett than any kind of joke she told her family. Like, who cares why it's a joke for Scarlett's family and a lie in your family? I don't understand this insistence in drawing a fine line on what she thinks is a lie and what you think is a lie and why it matters, other than y'all just don't like each other that much and want to call her out with an aha, so you do lie! kind of thing. Like, if it is a form of a lie that's acceptable in her family and the earring thing isn't...who ultimately cares? That's what I can't figure out. Why bicker over it? Why bring up tons of things from past threads just to prove what you already think to be true about her?

Edited March 11, 2019 by EmseB

[unsinkable]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

 

Call out liars? That thread was a poster asking a direct question about would this be wrong?  I gave my opinion like many people did.  If you or Cat feel ‘called out’ because I expressed that *i* felt  earring thing is a lie I don’t know what to say to that.  

 

 

10 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

 

Call out liars? That thread was a poster asking a direct question about would this be wrong?  I gave my opinion like many people did.  If you or Cat feel ‘called out’ because I expressed that *i* felt  earring thing is a lie I don’t know what to say to that.  

 

this is what I mean about calling out liars; this is a quote by you in the other thread, in response to the cashier examples.

"Those are not harmless fibs Cat.  There are other ways to brighten a cashiers day without lying. "

 

[Scarlett]

8 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Come now, Scarlett. People disagree with me on this forum all the time, and I’m fine with it.

What I’m not fine with is your hypocritical attitude.

You can justify a HUGE DECEPTION like the keylogger thing because you wanted information. But it was ENTIRELY DISHONEST. It was sneaky and it was intentionally deceiving your own husband.

And stop playing the victim here. I already posted that I agreed with what you did. I already posted that I thought it was a good piece of advice when you recommended that other women do the same thing. But let’s not kid ourselves and act like it’s an honest and truthful thing to do. The only reason the secret keylogger thing works is because it is sneaky and covert and dishonest.

But you can justify your dishonesty as being perfectly fine and not harmful because it was what you wanted to do. 

What I’m saying is that you have no problem justifying your own lack of truthfulness, yet you judge others for something as trivial as complimenting a cashier’s earrings as being harmful to everyone, including society in general. 

So basically, if you do something, even if it’s a truly huge deception, it’s okay as long as you know you have a good reason for it, but if someone else does something way more minor, it’s harmful and bad, even if they feel they have a good reason, too. Because you say so. 

 

A keylogger on my spouses computer is not a lie to me.  And I wouldn’t care if he put one on my computer. 

I guess what you want me to say is that I think it is not a lie to tell a cashier you think her earrings are beautiful when you are thinking they are ugly.  I am not going to say that.  I think it is wrong.  You obviously don’t think it is.  And many others agreed with you. So what is the problem here? We don’t agree and we aren’t going to. 

[Scarlett]

8 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

 

this is what I mean about calling out liars; this is a quote by you in the other thread, in response to the cashier examples.

"Those are not harmless fibs Cat.  There are other ways to brighten a cashiers day without lying. "

 

Ok, and I stand by that.  That is not calling anyone out.  Cat said she did it and I said I thought it was wrong.  

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

A keylogger on my spouses computer is not a lie to me.  And I wouldn’t care if he put one on my computer. 

I guess what you want me to say is that I think it is not a lie to tell a cashier you think her earrings are beautiful when you are thinking they are ugly.  I am not going to say that.  I think it is wrong.  You obviously don’t think it is.  And many others agreed with you. So what is the problem here? We don’t agree and we aren’t going to. 

 

Of course it’s a lie! 

You did it secretly! And you didn’t tell him you did it! Lies by omission are still lies!

I don’t care whether or not you think I lie to cashiers. But I think it’s incredibly hypocritical for you to act like it’s harmful to pay someone a false compliment to brighten their day, yet it’s perfectly fine and admirable for you to be totally dishonest and sneaky with your own husband. 

Sorry, Scarlett, but you can’t have it both ways. 

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Of course it’s a lie! 

You did it secretly! And you didn’t tell him you did it! Lies by omission are still lies!

I don’t care whether or not you think I lie to cashiers. But I think it’s incredibly hypocritical for you to act like it’s harmful to pay someone a false compliment to brighten their day, yet it’s perfectly fine and admirable for you to be totally dishonest and sneaky with your own husband. 

Sorry, Scarlett, but you can’t have it both ways. 

Yes I can.  🙂

And I don't care whether you think it was a lie to install a keylogger on my xh's computer.  

 

[unsinkable]

28 minutes ago, EmseB said:

After reading this back and forth I think this has more to do with people's posting history with Scarlett than any kind of joke she told her family. Like, who cares why it's a joke for Scarlett's family and a lie in your family? I don't understand this insistence in drawing a fine line on what she thinks is a lie and what you think is a lie and why it matters, other than y'all just don't like each other that much and want to call her out with an aha, so you do lie! kind of thing. Like, if it is a form of a lie that's acceptable in her family and the earring thing isn't...who ultimately cares? That's what I can't figure out. Why bicker over it? Why bring up tons of things from past threads just to prove what you already think to be true about her?

This isn't personal for me. I like Scarlett and I've defended her and had her back in dozens of threads they the years. I thought she liked me but as of today, reading her replies to me, I think I was mistaken. 

ANyway...It is about lying. And why in some situations lies are OK and not even really lies. And the only explanation  is the "You Do You" argument.

And I never said telling a joke like that was considered a lie in my family. The whole family thing came up as part of the "You Do You" response. 

Edited to add: the past thread I brought up was specifically about lying.

Edited March 11, 2019 by unsinkable

[unsinkable]

12 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Ok, and I stand by that.  That is not calling anyone out.  Cat said she did it and I said I thought it was wrong.  

You used her name and you told her she was lying and harming people.

(And I do the same thing...compliment cashiers and sometimes lie when doing it)

What does calling someone out me to you?

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

This isn't personal for me. I like Scarlett and I've defended her and had her back in dozens of threads they the years. I thought she liked me but as of today, reading her replies to me, I think I was mistaken. 

ANyway...It is about lying. And why in some situations lies are OK and not even really lies. And the only explanation  is the "You Do You" argument.

And I never said telling a joke like that was considered a lie in my family. The whole family thing came up as part of the "You Do You" response. 

 

You have had my back and I thought you liked me fine until today too. I do feel this has become personal because you and Cat are determined to paint me as a liar.  I don't know why this can't just be something we disagree on.  

[Scarlett]

Just now, unsinkable said:

You used her name and you told her she was lying and harming people.

(And I do the same thing...compliment cashiers and sometimes lie when doing it)

What does calling someone out me to you?

Calling someone out?  Like going to their house and saying, 'come out here and fight like a man!'  LOL.  I don't know. Shrug.

And I specifically said I didn't think the cashier was harmed.  I said it is harmful to oneself to just as a matter of routine say things that you do not really mean or believe.