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gardenmom5
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Or maybe there should be a sick room available for the sick people.  

If people anticipated having exposure to all the sickness of anyone sick maybe that would discourage going.  And in any case could be more restful for the ill.

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7 minutes ago, Pen said:

And maybe a minister could give a sermon about staying home when ill. Or when family is ill and one might be carrying the illness.  ...

I am not sure if he has or not, but that is a good thing to ask😉.  

Oddly, most of our Sunday School teachers are nurses.😁.  We live in a smaller town, so maybe having the nurses or the doctor-who comes as well to our church...talk about this would help.

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1 minute ago, DesertBlossom said:

I would have to go find the source, but something like 20-30% of people who come down with mumps have no symptoms. 

Just another note that blew my mind... the CDC says 72% of people who contract polio will have no symptoms whatsoever. I have heard that number to be as high as 95% though, with a few more only developing cold-like symptoms. https://www.cdc.gov/polio/about/index.htm

Wow..that is fascinating.  I should have all of their titers done...it would be highly interesting to see what they wil say.  I still wonder why my vaccinated kiddos took it so bad though compared to my nonvaccinated kiddos-that would be an interesting study as well...if age has different responses or something.

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3 minutes ago, Pen said:

Or maybe there should be a sick room available for the sick people.  

Honestly, I think the only place for sick people are homes and hospitals.  Our church does have facebook live so anyone can watch at home or offers free dvds of sermons for those who want them...so they can enjoy a wonderful sermon and drink their chicken noodle soup to😁.

We have tons of babies and elderly, so I think we should all put their needs before our desire to attend service.  

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34 minutes ago, homemommy83 said:

Our church is very laid back about attendance because it is huge, but I personally doubt any parent who has watched their kid vomit all night and is still fevering really thinks that it is ok😉 to bring them to church, but they do.

 

It seems to me if they clearly had it in their mind that it is wrong to do that they wouldn’t.

Since they do it, they must believe it is relatively okay.

 

I assume they don’t do any number of other things like turn on a radio loudly in the middle of the service, or pour bottles of V8 juice out on the head of someone next to them. 

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I think we get mixed messages in society about when and how we should interact socially when sick.

I know when I was in high school, you'd better be in the hospital rather than miss a band/orchestra performance or even a practice if there was a concert coming up.  It didn't make a lot of sense because there's nothing like blowing your germs through your flute into the face of the girl next to you to spread disease, but that was definitely the expectation.  I didn't show up for a concert once after having missed school that day and the director threatened to kick me out of orchestra as he was unclear about my dedication.

For work, I found a similar ethos: they didn't want you actually communicating disease, but they also didn't want you missing work.

I don't go to church but I can see how there might be some confusion - if it's okay and even necessary to go to school or work when sick, how much worse can it be to go to church?  Obviously I would not do this (who wants to get out of the house sick or take a sick kid out of the house? misery) but I can see the inclination.

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21 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

It seems to me if they clearly had it in their mind that it is wrong to do that they wouldn’t.

Since they do it, they must believe it is relatively okay.

 

I assume they don’t do any number of other things like turn on a radio loudly in the middle of the service, or pour bottles of V8 juice out on the head of someone next to them. 

I think there is things normal not crazy people know not to do, and then there are things that you know aren't right, but don't care enough for others-including your own child who wants to lay in bed😉....because they are selfish.  Yes, even in the church you will find selfish people.  

One of the children in particulars parent knew I was ill the week before...and had a full conversation about it the day before, including talking about how I want the church to put up paperwork-and they won't...and she sent her extremely sick child who was still vomiting after vomiting all night and once during the day...to my class-this lady absolutely knew...and found it convienent to stay home and send him with an older sibling to church...sadly some people just don't care about others as much as themselves.😟

 

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27 minutes ago, moonflower said:

I think we get mixed messages in society about when and how we should interact socially when sick.

I know when I was in high school, you'd better be in the hospital rather than miss a band/orchestra performance or even a practice if there was a concert coming up.  It didn't make a lot of sense because there's nothing like blowing your germs through your flute into the face of the girl next to you to spread disease, but that was definitely the expectation.  I didn't show up for a concert once after having missed school that day and the director threatened to kick me out of orchestra as he was unclear about my dedication.

For work, I found a similar ethos: they didn't want you actually communicating disease, but they also didn't want you missing work.

I don't go to church but I can see how there might be some confusion - if it's okay and even necessary to go to school or work when sick, how much worse can it be to go to church?  Obviously I would not do this (who wants to get out of the house sick or take a sick kid out of the house? misery) but I can see the inclination.

Also some workplaces fire you if you miss 3 days...despite doctors notes...so they go with the flu and pnuemonia as they need the jobs.  

But in this case of Sunday School our church does not push attendance at all, and we send sick kiddos back to their parents...which has happened every single week.  We don't send runny noses or minor coughs, but fevers and vomiting or general feeling like laying down is getting sent back...and then parents always say they knew the kiddo had xyz, or had been at the doctor the day before with flu, strep, norovirus...it is like really😷.

I love these kiddos and want them to get better and come back😁.

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4 hours ago, homemommy83 said:

Also some workplaces fire you if you miss 3 days...despite doctors notes...so they go with the flu and pnuemonia as they need the jobs.  

But in this case of Sunday School our church does not push attendance at all, and we send sick kiddos back to their parents...which has happened every single week.  We don't send runny noses or minor coughs, but fevers and vomiting or general feeling like laying down is getting sent back...and then parents always say they knew the kiddo had xyz, or had been at the doctor the day before with flu, strep, norovirus...it is like really😷.

I love these kiddos and want them to get better and come back😁.

 

I get it and you're doing the right thing, but you might have to be even more direct about it.

When I was student teaching, I remember having real trouble staying home when I was sick.  I didn't even like teaching!  I dreaded it.  But I felt like it was wrong to miss "work" and that people would look down on me for being a wimp.  The other teachers, all women fwiw, were really very kind and direct in saying I should stay home when ill, but I just found it hard to believe.  Somehow I thought maybe they were being nice about it but behind my back were saying/thinking that I wasn't really dedicated (which, hah, I wasn't) or cut out for teaching (also true!) and I felt guilty about staying home.

Maybe just have someone in a position of significant authority take a moment at some point to talk to the parents and say look, the thing that would be best for us and for the other kids is if no kid who has puked or run a fever in the last 24 hours shows up at church or Sunday School.  We have some small kids here and we really want everyone to stay healthy as possible, yada yada.  The Right Thing To Do Is Stay Home.

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My DD was born with a congenital birth defect and required major life-saving surgery when she was 8 weeks old.  After 6 days in the hospital, we took her home and by 10 am the following morning, she was back at the ped’s office receiving her 8-week vacs.

I don’t why people at my church insist on bringing their sick kids to the nursery.  We have an isolated seating area where anyone can sit and view the service.  Ordinary, kind-hearted people think nothing of exposing their sick children to the general population, and since they don’t live with the fallout, it’s out of sight, out of mind.  It’s willful ignorance.  My DD is 11yo and takes about twice as long to recover from every illness that she happens to pick up. Late April of last year, DD and DH volunteered for a babysitting fundraiser.  I thought, “She’s 10, how bad could it be?”  Within 24 hours, she picked up the trots.  Apparently, a couple of kids arrived at the event with the trots, and one of the mothers is an MD.  I've just digressed...

I guess I'm not surprised when parents fail to get their otherwise healthy children vaccinated.

 

 

 

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On 2/12/2019 at 12:47 PM, Tanaqui said:

 

Have they ever HAD the flu!? Most miserable two weeks of my life, and I was fully wiped out for the next month thereafter.

We fully vaccinate but we were inconsistent with the flu vaccine. Some years we got it, some years we just didn't make the time. Then one year all three of us got the flu. Ds was 5 or 6 and he got it first on New Year's Eve, then me, then dh. Dh was supposed to go back to work after taking time off during the holidays but he ended up needing another two weeks off. Since ds got sick first he also got better first. At this time his ADHD was still undiagnosed and untreated. If you have any idea what a 5-6 yo with ADHD is like you can imagine how it was when dh and I were both still sick. The tiredness lingered for months. 

After that year we always make sure we get the vaccine every year. Unfortunately it took a bad case of the flu to remind us how helpful it is to be vaccinated. 

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7 hours ago, moonflower said:

 

I get it and you're doing the right thing, but you might have to be even more direct about it.

When I was student teaching, I remember having real trouble staying home when I was sick.  I didn't even like teaching!  I dreaded it.  But I felt like it was wrong to miss "work" and that people would look down on me for being a wimp.  The other teachers, all women fwiw, were really very kind and direct in saying I should stay home when ill, but I just found it hard to believe.  Somehow I thought maybe they were being nice about it but behind my back were saying/thinking that I wasn't really dedicated (which, hah, I wasn't) or cut out for teaching (also true!) and I felt guilty about staying home.

Maybe just have someone in a position of significant authority take a moment at some point to talk to the parents and say look, the thing that would be best for us and for the other kids is if no kid who has puked or run a fever in the last 24 hours shows up at church or Sunday School.  We have some small kids here and we really want everyone to stay healthy as possible, yada yada.  The Right Thing To Do Is Stay Home.

For teachers, it’s bad because usually you get sick the most the first few years, when you don’t have leave built up to use, and you don’t have savings to take unpaid leave (and usually cannot benefit from leave banks), and aren’t tenured yet. After a few years, you seem to be immune to a lot of things, but usually the first years are the worst. I am extremely grateful to the assistant principal who, my second year, transferred leave days to me so I could stay home (I had a very musty classroom, and ended up with a very, very bad, lingering bronchitis). 

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After living around the world in many places that have far less vaccines my son is "behind" according to the CDC schedule. Really though after seeing wild measles and more I don't think it is as big a deal as the media makes seem. It comes off as propaganda. 

I really don't understand this delight in seeing young adults go against their parents. As a young adult many stupid decisions are made. And many don't stop to think of the longer term effects. This story linked in the op just seems like media hype on the outbreak of measles. 

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People do have valid concerns of the safety and efficacy of vaccines. 

It is unethical to test the vaccine schedule as it is currently given. Therefore, the schedule and combinations have not been tested. 

This has 9 parts, but is worth the time to listen. It brings up what are common objections. People may not be informed on the science of vaccines, but there are valid concerns that have been ignored. 

 

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On 2/12/2019 at 7:18 AM, Tress said:

 Yep, we have those too in the Netherlands. Makes me want to scream!

Threads like this always make me a bit nervous. We don't vaccinate against chicken pox here, and somehow all my kids haven't had it yet....which makes me worried about my eldest especially. And noone, really noone, is getting their tithers checked and vaccines updated as an adult. My family doctor would think I am crazy if I suggest such a thing. But I agree it would be a really smart idea with my general weak health. Hmmm, what to do....

 

I have a friend who is a nurse practitioner and works in the office where I get my medical care.  I asked her if it’s possible for a person like me to get titers checked and thought she’d think I was a nut.  She didn’t.  She said, “Oh yeah, nursing students and medical people get them all the time. No biggie.  Just call the office and ask for them.” So maybe they won’t think you’re crazy.  

On 2/12/2019 at 8:39 AM, wilrunner said:

A PA in the ER told me a couple of weeks ago that I had whooping cough. She misread the antibody result that she believed showed I had an active infection. According to my pulmonologist, she read the wrong lab result for that diagnosis. The PA tried to look at my immunization schedule (it was a military ER and should have had all my med records), but it had disappeared. They have no knowledge of any vaccinations, including childhood vacs. Any vaccinations I've had as an adult would have been in that record. So now I have to find my records theoretically dating back 20 years or have my titers checked. It will probably be easier to have my titers checked.

To the best of my knowledge, no doctor I've had, both military and civilian, has ever suggested updating my vaccinations. Until this thread and my whooping cough incident, I didn't know it was something I needed to be aware of. I would think this would be something doctors would recommend during physicals, but that hasn't been my experience.

 

Flu shot and tetanus are the only ones I’ve been reminded about as an adult.  Even when I was pregnant, I don’t remember anything about vaccines.  I didn’t even know to ask, or maybe I’m really not remembering.  I just don’t remember getting any vaccines at all while pregnant.  And I was seriously scared of shots back then, so I’d think I’d remember if it was a thing.  Maybe the routine blood work for a pregnancy included titers and I didn’t need a vaccine?  Who knows!  

On 2/12/2019 at 10:18 AM, SKL said:

I think dogmatic people are dogmatic.  I have seen a lot of people unable to accept the significance of the 18th birthday.

I also agree that "it's a miracle I'm alive" is a bit insane.  But considering how the person was raised, if he's irrational, that shouldn't be a surprise.

 

Didn’t the article say that he wrote “it’s a miracle I’m alive” on a reddit board?  He didn’t sit down with an interviewer and put on a serious face and say those words.  He typed them on his screen and we don’t know if he said them as a bit of hyperbole or not.  He wasn’t expecting to be quoted.  I say goofy things on this board all the time.  If a reporter were to pull something I’d said out and report on it, I could come across as something I’m not.

He could have meant it earnestly, or could have just been making off the cuff statements.  “Hey, Reddit guys!  My mom didn’t get me vacs and now I have to have like 50 of them this week!  Dang!  I coulda died of polio!  It’s a miracle I’m alive!!!”  

Anyway, I’ll reserve judgement on whether or not he shoud have said that when I see context of how he said it.  

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'm not sure which of our recent vaccine threads to drop this in, so I'll put it here. I wonder what this boy is going to think when he grows up? As someone who has no issues with vaccines, I can't wrap my mind around this. How does someone watch their child on life support and refuse a vaccine that could have prevented it all? I just can't understand.

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/08/701553920/unvaccinated-boy-6-spent-57-days-in-the-hospital-with-tetanus?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

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1 hour ago, TechWife said:

I'm not sure which of our recent vaccine threads to drop this in, so I'll put it here. I wonder what this boy is going to think when he grows up? As someone who has no issues with vaccines, I can't wrap my mind around this. How does someone watch their child on life support and refuse a vaccine that could have prevented it all? I just can't understand.

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/08/701553920/unvaccinated-boy-6-spent-57-days-in-the-hospital-with-tetanus?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

 

Tetanus is so scary - it kind of boggles my mind that people don't vaccinate against it.  It's not even like you are protected by herd immunity.

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1 hour ago, Bluegoat said:

 

Tetanus is so scary - it kind of boggles my mind that people don't vaccinate against it.  It's not even like you are protected by herd immunity.

Yeah. I kinda get the people that decline chicken pox or measles even if I don’t agree.  But tetanus, polio, etc. they just seem really scary.

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3 hours ago, TechWife said:

I'm not sure which of our recent vaccine threads to drop this in, so I'll put it here. I wonder what this boy is going to think when he grows up? As someone who has no issues with vaccines, I can't wrap my mind around this. How does someone watch their child on life support and refuse a vaccine that could have prevented it all? I just can't understand.

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/08/701553920/unvaccinated-boy-6-spent-57-days-in-the-hospital-with-tetanus?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

 

This INFURIATES me. The fact that they have tetanus on their property, their child has already suffered, and they refused to take additional precautions screams negligence to me. They don’t deserve to remain medical decision-makers.

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The boy with tetanus was sutured at home- - thus also probably closing in the spores...  

Do we know that there wasn’t any involvement of CPS ? 

This 2017 case seems to be being used to get a law passed to end parental decision making for any vaccination.    

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To be fair, tetanus is everywhere. We probably all have tetanus somewhere we frequent, like our own property. It's just not an issue because we vaccinate and-

wait, they stitched that poor child up at home?

Okay, let me start again.

To be fair, these people need child services at their door, like, yesterday and I sure hope nobody is paying off their hospital bills but their own darn selves.

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7 hours ago, TechWife said:

I'm not sure which of our recent vaccine threads to drop this in, so I'll put it here. I wonder what this boy is going to think when he grows up? As someone who has no issues with vaccines, I can't wrap my mind around this. How does someone watch their child on life support and refuse a vaccine that could have prevented it all? I just can't understand.

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/08/701553920/unvaccinated-boy-6-spent-57-days-in-the-hospital-with-tetanus?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

My husband and I, both big supporters of universal healthcare or something similar, had the exact same reaction after reading this story. These parents should be responsible for every single penny of the medical bills. The gross negligence on their parts is appalling. How anyone could watch their child suffer like that and not do everything in their power to prevent it from happening again is beyond my comprehension.

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On 2/15/2019 at 10:00 PM, lulalu said:

People do have valid concerns of the safety and efficacy of vaccines. 

It is unethical to test the vaccine schedule as it is currently given. Therefore, the schedule and combinations have not been tested. 

This has 9 parts, but is worth the time to listen. It brings up what are common objections. People may not be informed on the science of vaccines, but there are valid concerns that have been ignored. 

 

I need more context or a synopsis for this to watch the whole series. I just spent an hour watching the first part amd all I got out of it was that some random doctor recommended that some child he had never seen follow the CDC's recommended vaccine schedule and that perhaps he is biased because he makes a lot of money from vaccines even though that is his chosen career field.  ???

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On 2/15/2019 at 9:57 AM, Lady Florida. said:

After that year we always make sure we get the vaccine every year. Unfortunately it took a bad case of the flu to remind us how helpful it is to be vaccinated. 

Actually there are studies that show that yearly ("serial") flu vaccination often increases the risk of getting the flu verses non-vaccination.

"In an even more unusual finding, people who were vaccinated 3 years in a row—in the 2012-13, 2013-14, and 2014-15 seasons—appeared to have a higher risk of being infected with the dominant flu strain in the latter season, according to the report, published last week in Clinical Infectious Diseases. 

"That surprising result echoed controversial findings reported by the Canadian flu surveillance network in the wake of the 2009 H1N1 flu pandemic. In studies published in 2010, researchers said they found that Canadians who had received a seasonal flu shot in the fall of 2008 were 1.4 to 2.5 times more likely to get an H1N1 infection requiring medical attention, compared with those who didn't get the seasonal shot.

"Scientists can't explain the apparent negative effects of "serial vaccination." But the findings raise questions about standard flu vaccination recommendations, which stress getting a flu shot every year to fight off the ever-mutating viruses...

"In looking for prior-vaccination effects, the team found that the VE [vaccine effectiveness] against H3N2 for those vaccinated in 2014-15 but not the year before was 53% (95% CI, 10% to 75%), much better than the -32% (95% CI, -75% to 0%) for those vaccinated in both seasons. For those vaccinated in all 3 seasons ending in 2014-15, VE against H3N2 was estimated at -54% (95% CI, -109 to -14%)—suggesting a significant increase in risk of flu, because the entire confidence interval was less than zero."

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2016/04/study-prior-year-vaccination-cut-flu-vaccine-effects-2014-15

 

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20 minutes ago, Margaret in CO said:

I don't know about this case, but it's possible that they didn't vax due to an allergy in their kid. I have one of those. We still don't know if it's the thimerosal (which, yes, is still in there--I have a friend who had a lab test a vial of "thimerosal free" and it was still there) or the tetanus. We haven't wanted to have her get another, so when she dies, we know it was the tetanus! She can get the immunoglobulin and will, if warranted. 

 

The child received the first dose of Tdap **after** the tetanus was confirmed, w/o injury, and the parents continued to refuse further vaccinations.

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1 minute ago, Margaret in CO said:

The whole thing wouldn't load for me. They gave the toxoid and not the immunoglobulin? Weird.

 

 

I imagine they were trying everything under the sun to save the child’s life. What’s weird is that the child’s own parents couldn’t be so moved.

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3 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

The child received the first dose of Tdap **after** the tetanus was confirmed, w/o injury, and the parents continued to refuse further vaccinations.

Exactly. They were also offered all vaccinations, given information about all vaccinations and several medical professionals attempted to convince them that vaccinations were appropriate. In the face of the scientific evidence, and the sight of their child breathing with assistance & on multiple medications to treat his entirely preventable disease, they still refused vaccinations. That is, IMO, someone who is putting an ideology above the safety and well being of their child. Again, I do wonder how they are going to explain this to him when he is older. I also wonder if there are siblings and what they might be thinking.

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7 hours ago, Skippy said:

Actually there are studies that show that yearly ("serial") flu vaccination often increases the risk of getting the flu verses non-vaccination.

 

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2016/04/study-prior-year-vaccination-cut-flu-vaccine-effects-2014-15

 

https://www.picnet.ca/flurisk/

Quote

But medical microbiologist Dr. Dick Zoutman, who’s chief of staff at Quinte Health Care and an infectious diseases expert, said other studies have shown the opposite. Zoutman said people still shouldn’t jump to conclusions about flu vaccines as a result of the B.C. study. He said the findings are valuable but shouldn’t be misinterpreted. “This study does not prove that serial vaccination caused lower effectiveness,” Zoutman said. “It was associated with lower effectiveness, but association is not causation.”

He said eating ice cream, by example, may be associated with higher rates of drowning. In summer, more people are swimming and, as a result, there are more drownings. But simply because more people eat ice cream in summer doesn’t mean it’s linked to another summer phenomenon.

Zoutman also said there have also been conflicting studies indicating more vaccination was beneficial. The B.C. study, he said, “raises more questions that it gives answers – and no doubt we need answers to those questions.”

From the study you quoted (bolding mine)-

Quote

At the same time, Skowronski cautioned that the study is observational, and the findings could be explained by undetected differences between the participant groups.

Also, people should continue to be vaccinated against flu, she stressed: "Of course, overall, vaccine is protective. Rarely we may see these effects of increased risk. We need to clarify that. Until now we've always found the vaccine protective, and that's important for people at high risk of flu complications to know.

Quote

CDC expert advises caution

Flannery, of the US CDC, gave the study good marks, saying he saw no major gaps or flaws and that the study employed the same test-negative approach the CDC uses to assess flu VE. But he said the US network did not find negative effects from prior-year vaccination in 2014-15. [...]  

Meanwhile, he said the Canadian findings have no immediate implications for vaccine messages or recommendations.

"The effect of prior vaccination on VE is something we've been looking at but we still don't really understand the effects," he said. "The people who get vaccinated every year, they still get a significant benefit of vaccine. It varies from year to year, but on the whole, people who get vaccinated every year have less flu than those who don't."

He advised particular caution in judging the suggestion that people who were vaccinated 3 years in a row had a higher risk of infection in 2014-15 than their unvaccinated peers.

"That's a message we'd like to be really cautious about, any suggestion that there was a negative effect. I think the consistent results between US and Canada are the low VE with the drifted strain," he said. "The negative effects we did not see in the US."

 

Edited by Lady Florida.
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On 2/14/2019 at 7:25 PM, Margaret in CO said:

She screamed for 18 hours a day, for years. All her senses were on high alert, and she couldn't turn it off. She's still an intense person, but interestingly enough, now works in a VERY high stress field, with lots of smells and noise. And is thriving. But she has her quirks--her dh was deployed so she did a master's degree. Then finished that and was bored, so took up running Ironmans! Perfectionism is her middle name. There is a reason that she gets saluted a lot... 😉 

Mine had the flu shot in 2003 and just started screaming. He would cover his ears and scream and tears running down his face. I still gave shots to the others but thought I would give one shot at a time. Then my now 7 yr old had to be hospitalized after a shot at 1 yr old so I stopped them altogether.  

 

IF my children as adults choose to have vaccinations, their choice, I am fine. IF they chose to insult me as a parent by telling me how bad I was, then I will have a problem with them. 

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37 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

But medical microbiologist Dr. Dick Zoutman, who’s chief of staff at Quinte Health Care and an infectious diseases expert, said other studies have shown the opposite.

I agree. These studies have shown some years where serial vaccination has a negative effect and some where it doesn't. It seems like researchers don't really know why, but one theory is because of the "antigenic relatedness of the previous vaccine to the current vaccine." 

"A negative effect of prior vaccination is not a consistent finding of all studies, and the mechanisms that might underlie this phenomenon remain unknown. However, it was suggested several years ago that the effect may depend on the antigenic relatedness of the previous vaccine to the current vaccine, and of both to the circulating virus, referred to as the antigenic distance hypothesis (ADH). According to the ADH, the biggest negative effect would be predicted to occur when the previous and current vaccines are antigenically similar, and the circulating virus is significantly drifted.

"... Essentially, Skowronski and colleagues found that the greatest negative effect of prior vaccination occurred in the 2014–2015 season, when the prior and current vaccines were the same, and the circulating virus was a poor antigenic match. In contrast, there was no effect of prior vaccination on VE [vaccine effectiveness] in 2010–2011, when the prior and current vaccines were distantly related and the circulating virus was also a drift variant, and an intermediate negative effect in 2012–2013, when the current and prior vaccine were similar, but not identical and the circulating virus was again drifted."

https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/215/7/1017/2979769

Trust me, I am no expert in this area. But I do find it interesting. Like many things in this life, unfortunately, this is not a sure thing. But I am not saying that you and your family should not get a flu shot every year. I am glad that you have that choice and that they are doing more research on this.

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