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Innisfree

Test of Narrative Language, plus more...

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We're going back to the schools, thinking of enrolling dd14 (ASD) for high school next year, so I'm trying to figure out if this is what I need to ask for in an evaluation.

Dd14 has a hard time telling me about things like, say, a science experiment at her co-op class. She tries to brush off the question ( "What did you do?" " I don't know, stuff.") And-- that sounds like normal teen who isn't interested in talking about her class. But if I probe more, she has a really hard time knowing and/or explaining what the purpose of the experiment was and how it unfolded, beginning, middle, and end. She gets fed up and angry with the questions before I get any real sense of what happened, and I think her anger is at least partially because this process is hard for her.

So, is the Test of Narrative Language what I want?

And, next: what am I seeing in this scenario?

Dd was taking an open-book science quiz. The book shows several types of maps geologists use: topography, climate, etc. The question asks "What types of information can a geologist get from a map?" Dd, very frustrated , says "Which map? They don't say which one!" She rejects the idea that the question meant maps in general , and insists that it must mean a particular map. 

Is this failure to generalize? What would you want to see happening in school to address this? Lots of practice generalizing, I guess, lol? I want to make sure I ask for the right things, and I'm starting to go nuts trying to get things ready.

 

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The lab stuff is going to be narrative in nature while also including knowing what details are important and what details are irrelevant. 

The Test of Narrative Language will show weaknesses in narrative language. Whether or not the school will think that those skills and the lab problems correlate, I don't know. 

I would also ask for the Test of Problem-Solving as well (https://www.academictherapy.com/detailATP.tpl?eqskudatarq=DDD-1927). I think that would show potential weaknesses related to the quiz. Yes, it's about generalizing, and it's about using the right strategy to generalize correctly. The TOPS test looks at several areas:

Quote

Subtest A: Making Inferences: Give a logical explanation about a situation, combining CURRENT information with background knowledge
Subtest B: Determining Solutions: Provide a logical solution for some aspect of a situation presented
Subtest 😄 Problem Solving: Recognize the problem, find alternate solutions, evaluate options, and state an appropriate solution
Subtest 😧 Interpreting Perspectives: Evaluate other points of view to draw a conclusion
Subtest E: Transferring Insights: Compare analogous situations by using information stated in the passage

All of this is difficult for my son with ASD who is also 14. We are using The Story Grammar Marker curriculum to work on a lot of this stuff. It's taking a LONG time. You can get a curriculum that works directly on the skills the TOPS tests and is written by the people who made the test. SGM stuff does eventually get to those things too--it hits narrative language and then eventually expository language. I found it helpful to call Mindwing and ask them about the SGM curriculum. If you have test results, they like to hear about the testing to guide their recommendations. Super nice people!

For both tests, be sure to get the right age range--some versions of the test do not hit the upper ages. 

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I think it's good for you to be able to name certain tests you would like the school to run. Be aware, however, that the school is not required to use tests that you request. They are very likely to have their own protocol for evaluations and tests that they have purchased and are trained to use. If you want specific tests run, you may need to do it privately and then submit the test scores to the school.

 

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In terms of the maps question, that gets back to the "form, function, class" teaching that is part of Applied Behavioral Analysis therapy. Unfortunately, I don't know good materials to work on that with a high school aged student because my daughter worked on FFC when she was in early elementary.

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On 2/4/2019 at 12:18 PM, Innisfree said:

And, next: what am I seeing in this scenario?

Dd was taking an open-book science quiz. The book shows several types of maps geologists use: topography, climate, etc. The question asks "What types of information can a geologist get from a map?" Dd, very frustrated , says "Which map? They don't say which one!" She rejects the idea that the question meant maps in general , and insists that it must mean a particular map. 

Is this failure to generalize? What would you want to see happening in school to address this? Lots of practice generalizing, I guess, lol? I want to make sure I ask for the right things, and I'm starting to go nuts trying to get things ready.

 

I wonder if it is a case of taking the sentence too literally. Because it says "a map," she is convinced that it is referring to one map. Because "a map" is usually singular, grammatically.

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19 minutes ago, Storygirl said:

I wonder if it is a case of taking the sentence too literally. Because it says "a map," she is convinced that it is referring to one map. Because "a map" is usually singular, grammatically.

Yes, I think you're right. Classic asd thinking. Which illustrates just how much asd can interfere with thought processes.

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On February 7, 2019 at 4:32 PM, Crimson Wife said:

In terms of the maps question, that gets back to the "form, function, class" teaching that is part of Applied Behavioral Analysis therapy. Unfortunately, I don't know good materials to work on that with a high school aged student because my daughter worked on FFC when she was in early elementary.

If op is doing the language testing privately, it would be highly interesting to get the SPELT if possible. It would answer the question of whether the maps response was rigidity or language disability. Could be both. My ds had very subtle comprehension issues masked by his IQ and ability to memorize massive amounts of language whole, so that we had no clue the degree of his challenges until we ran the SPELT. 

As far as FFC for an older dc, in the past I've linked a workbook someone had posted a pdf of for free, and there's a teen version. *if* this dc has a significant language disability, there is NO WAY the ps will even begin to do the amount of intervention that would be required. They will set some end product goals, slog to meet those goals, done. So when you're saying FFC, that's the root everything else grows from and really important work but the ps is highly unlikely to do it at this point, not thoroughly. The most they'll do is EET (expanding expressions tool) which is the basics but not detailed enough for serious disabilities. 

I'm highly in favor of FFC work when indicated, but I will say that what I did with my ds this year, at age 9 1/2-10, I was doing in pretty heavy doses (several hours a day) to make significant progress. It's not for the faint of heart and 20 minutes a week of speech therapy in an IEP won't get it done. You're talking private or doing it yourself or whatever. Even narrative language testing, which is SO obvious, they either won't do or won't have the time in the IEP to address or won't have the materials. SKILL Narrative would be appropriate (or MW/SGM, yes) but around here the ps uses a $10 kit off TPT. It's all $$$$$.

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