What does high school look like for a profoundly dyslexic student?

[summerreading]

Ds is 12 and still working on reading. I finally gave in and started Barton after tutoring and I'm glad we did. But this year I'm reading out loud the whole of History Odyssey and looking ahead thinking there's no way in reading his high school textbooks to him! 

What should I know to plan for high school level work? Is it realistic to ask a dyslexic teen to write research papers and essays? What are the ways to show they know that's appropriate for that level? 

Thanks in advance, I'm asking lots of questions this week! 

Edited February 4, 2019 by summerreading

[Pen]

I suggest that you will find high school easier if you:

1) get him used to audiobooks.  

and if you haven’t done so yet, getting him approved for systems that exist—could depend on what country you are in.  For USA this would be Learning Ally, Bookshare, NLS (National Library System). 

2) get him able to type and learning to use speech to text apps or computer systems to help with writing 

[Lecka]

I don’t know but maybe look at this book:  https://www.amazon.com/Dyslexia-Empowerment-Plan-Blueprint-Confidence/dp/0345541251/ref=nodl_

Iirc it has a lot about accommodations.  I think the author uses voice-to-text software and went to law school writing papers that way.  Okay, it’s been a couple of years but that is what I remember.  

[summerreading]

3 hours ago, Pen said:

I suggest that you will find high school easier if you:

1) get him used to audiobooks.  

and if you haven’t done so yet, getting him approved for systems that exist—could depend on what country you are in.  For USA this would be Learning Ally, Bookshare, NLS (National Library System). 

2) get him able to type and learning to use speech to text apps or computer systems to help with writing 

 

Thank you, good tips. We do have Bard from the National Library Service, just this textbook isn't on any of the systems.

3 hours ago, Lecka said:

I don’t know but maybe look at this book:  https://www.amazon.com/Dyslexia-Empowerment-Plan-Blueprint-Confidence/dp/0345541251/ref=nodl_

Iirc it has a lot about accommodations.  I think the author uses voice-to-text software and went to law school writing papers that way.  Okay, it’s been a couple of years but that is what I remember.  

 

This looks great, thanks!

[Pen]

51 minutes ago, summerreading said:

 

Thank you, good tips. We do have Bard from the National Library Service, just this textbook isn't on any of the systems.

 

Some (Learning Ally Or Bookshare) May record a needed book if you contact them and ask their current rules / costs.  

Or you could choose from books that are already ones recorded.

NLS does not tend to have textbooks.  But is wonderful for literature and other types of books.

Bookshare tends to have textbooks, but requires getting used to text to speech.  

Edited February 4, 2019 by Pen

[Pen]

 

4 hours ago, summerreading said:

 Is it realistic to ask a dyslexic teen to write research papers and essays?

Yes.  If they are capable of doing academic work.  

4 hours ago, summerreading said:

What are the ways to show they know that's appropriate for that level? 

 

What does this mean?  How to show your student it is appropriate?  

Perhaps an outside class, rather than a mom led class.

 

[summerreading]

46 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

What does this mean?  How to show your student it is appropriate?  

 

 

 

Bad phrasing. What are high school level ways that they can show they know the material.

[Storygirl]

DD13's dyslexia school teaches the students to use their computer aids, such as spell check and Grammarly for grammar checks. And they can use text-to-speech to compose their essays.

Showing mastery through a non-written project or through an oral test can be allowed in an IEP. Having a scribe write down answers that the student gives orally can also be allowed by an IEP. However, I expect that all high schools would require the student to be able to show some composition skills and would not waive the requirement for all writing in English classes, etc.

Using text to speech for the initial draft of the composition, and then using spell check and grammar technology to correct errors is likely the path to take. So in addition to continuing to learn the reading skills, learning to use the tools is really important.

There may be apps that allow you to take a photo of a page of text, so that it can read it back to you. DD13 has not needed that, so I haven't looked into it, but it seems I may have read that it exists.

DD13's tutor recommended the Voice Dream app. We haven't tried it yet, but it looks good.

[Pen]

52 minutes ago, summerreading said:

 

Bad phrasing. What are high school level ways that they can show they know the material.

 

Ah. Other than write.

Do a project.  Talk about it.  Make a film. Use it irl...

[Heathermomster]

How is your child's verbal comprehension?  He will need to use accommodations.  Look for TEDTalks and materials written by Ben Foss.  I don't agree with some of his opinions: however, Foss is profoundly dyslexic and graduated from law school and I **think** has another masters degree.  Foss is a huge dyslexia advocate. 

From about 6th grade on, my DS was accommodated and used audiobooks with Immersion Technology for reading using Bookshare.org.  LearningAlly also had several of his textbooks.  He typed all of his work (except math) and started keeping a WTM History notebook when he came home full-time in the 7th grade.  Yes, he wrote essays and a spectacular research paper.  

DS took outside courses and turned in projects on PowerPoint.  He used mindmapping software for outlining and notetaking.  I'm currently teaching my DD the same skills. 

I cut back on assignments so that they were achievable.  We watched documentaries, visited museums, and listened to ancient music.  

[Pen]

2 hours ago, Storygirl said:

DD13's dyslexia school teaches the students to use their computer aids, such as spell check and Grammarly for grammar checks. And they can use text-to-speech to compose their essays.

 

Probably you meant speech-to-text— but text to speech also helps because it can read back what you’ve written.

2 hours ago, Storygirl said:

 

Showing mastery through a non-written project or through an oral test can be allowed in an IEP.

Yes.  Or even without an IEP.  

2 hours ago, Storygirl said:

Having a scribe write down answers that the student gives orally can also be allowed by an IEP. However, I expect that all high schools would require the student to be able to show some composition skills and would not waive the requirement for all writing in English classes, etc.

Composition, yes.  But not necessarily the physical part of writing.  

2 hours ago, Storygirl said:

Using text to speech for the initial draft of the composition, and then using spell check and grammar technology to correct errors is likely the path to take. So in addition to continuing to learn the reading skills, learning to use the tools is really important.

I agree.

2 hours ago, Storygirl said:

There may be apps that allow you to take a photo of a page of text, so that it can read it back to you. DD13 has not needed that, so I haven't looked into it, but it seems I may have read that it exists.

Yes.  “SPEECHIFY “ is an app that can do this.  There may be others too.  I have it, but haven’t used it yet.  

 

[EKS]

Instead of deciding that you don't want to read high school level textbooks aloud, you might instead look for texts that are enjoyable to read aloud, not because they are dumbed down, but because they are well written.  It takes some doing, but it is well worth it.  

[City Mouse]

For textbooks that are not on Bookshare or Learning Ally (most all public school tectebooks will be available), an online or PDF vision can be used with text to speech software that has OCR. We use Snap N Read.  It does have trouble with math and science, and misprounces words sometimes, but generally works well. 

I ah e also looked on YouTube for recordings when I needed something quickly.

[ElizabethB]

Have you looked into speechify?  I think it scans in pictures of text and turns it into speech.  Designed by a dyslexic young man.

https://www.getspeechify.com

 

[BlsdMama]

Is he affected in ways other than reading and writing? For example, where is he on math?  Also, what are his longterm plans?  Do you see a college degree in his future? 

We have several kids who are dyslexic - three are currently diagnosed - the 19yo, the 16yo, and the 14yo.  However, the first two are moderates, while the third is profound.  For moderates, while they need more hand holding through the writing process, we haven't tweaked much.  The 16yo has a 504 and an IEP in place, even though she's homeschooled and she does get accomodations (extended time) on testing.
If you do not have an official diagnosis, you're getting to the point where you'll need to consider it if you want testing accomodations for the SAT/ACT.  I think it has to be within four years, but double check me - so you'd want to wait another year or so, but watch the timing.

Our 19yo was able to do his reading.  Our 16yo uses a combination of reading and listening.  Her ability to discuss and analyze is really strong - I do volunteer to type for her sometimes when she is writing so that she can keep a constant stream of thought.  I do her editing for her college papers, but she is very successful on her own as was her older brother.

14yo DS (severe to profound) is a whole other ball of wax.  Listening - we use Book Ally, Audible, reading aloud very heavily.  He struggles in most areas - to include math.  We are seeing great gains this past year, but I think that he is still limited by his ability to read/write.  Your child should use the next few years to become very proficient with speech to text technology, Grammarly, adaptive software, etc.  

We were just discussing this at the homeschool program - what high school looks like for kids who are going to be limited by learning disabilities.  DS is affected by more than just dyslexia - he has severe working memory issues.  He loves to work with his hands and is planning on a two year tech program at our local community college.  We do think this is an excellent plan so we are tailoring his high school plan.  He will probably take Math I and Math II and, if he can't pass the Iowa tests with 40%, will need to take a state required Consumer Math course.  (Keep in mind, I issue a homeschool diploma, but my kids also received a homeschool program issued diploma so this meets that requirement.  It would be moot for anyone not trying to meet this requirement.) I don't see Algebra II, Geometry, or advanced maths happening here, with this child, but I might be mistaken.  I have seen a lot of development in my dyslexics' abilities from ages 12-14 and 14-16.  I suspect you are going to also see a lot of change from the boy he is now to the boy he is as a freshman/sophomore.

Four years of English grammar and lit - listening and discussing - writing utilizing software.  DS can listen to and discuss very complex books - most certainly on a high school level.  Writing about them?  No.  But, thinking back to my high school days, writing was not a large part of an English credit.  

Math - I mentioned above.
History - it's essentially reading (listening), discussing, and learning dates
Science - reading (listening) to the text and labs - hands on 
Extracurriculars - follow interests and seek out opportunities
 

[merry gardens]

My son (who initially failed the Barton screen) was all the way through Barton before starting high school. Having gone through all ten levels of Barton, he's able to read high school materials--and I learned to teach someone with severe dyslexia. 

I still follow the Barton's guideline of "teaching to mastery". I give as many chances as needed to demonstrate mastery. Tests are usually true/false and multiple choice with a lot of reviewing so nothing is a surprise. Most of the work is not written. After all the remediation, dyslexia still shows in his writing, so I don't ask for much writing. Anything typed must be run through spell-check/grammar-check before I'll read it--and I ask about spell-check an automatic question, similar to some of the questions used in Barton when writing sentences. I require at least one paper per semester in at least one subject, with multiple re-writes. We has a talk-to-text program and a Kindle that reads aloud, to use if desired, (he doesn't usually.) We use a mixture both textbook and workbook style materials and real books, plus movies and DVDs. We've watched series from The Great Courses on a variety of topics. We read and discuss. Co-op classes are used mostly for electives. (Most co-op classes aren't designed or equipped to deal with serious learning disabilities.) My husband contributed to our homeschool through building and wood working projects "shop class/industrial arts", a subject where both have talent and interest. My son can type well and use word processing programs, and now has learned beginning CAD and computer programing. He performed in a play and participated on local sports teams. We taught Driver's Education and he got his driver's license. He got his first paying job.

My son was been homeschooled all along, and it's always been difficult to answer the question of what grade he's in. We've re-assessed what "school" and "high school" really means, and decided there is no need to rush "graduating" him from our home school. Our plan for next year is for him to take a few dual enrollment classes at either a college online or a trade school. We expect he'll graduate our homeschool around age 19 with some college and/or trade school credits, a job history and some marketable skills.

Barton taught me as a tutor to "Teach to Mastery"; I also recommend to "Teach to Talents". People with dyslexia typically have talents outside of traditional academics. In addition to remediating weaknesses, spend time developing talents. Provide opportunities for success and reduce the chances of failing. Take advantage of the opportunities homeschooling high school provides for an IEP-- a truly Individualized Education Plan. 

[summerreading]

4 hours ago, merry gardens said:

My son (who initially failed the Barton screen) was all the way through Barton before starting high school. Having gone through all ten levels of Barton, he's able to read high school materials--and I learned to teach someone with severe dyslexia. 

I still follow the Barton's guideline of "teaching to mastery". I give as many chances as needed to demonstrate mastery. Tests are usually true/false and multiple choice with a lot of reviewing so nothing is a surprise. Most of the work is not written. After all the remediation, dyslexia still shows in his writing, so I don't ask for much writing. Anything typed must be run through spell-check/grammar-check before I'll read it--and I ask about spell-check an automatic question, similar to some of the questions used in Barton when writing sentences. I require at least one paper per semester in at least one subject, with multiple re-writes. We has a talk-to-text program and a Kindle that reads aloud, to use if desired, (he doesn't usually.) We use a mixture both textbook and workbook style materials and real books, plus movies and DVDs. We've watched series from The Great Courses on a variety of topics. We read and discuss. Co-op classes are used mostly for electives. (Most co-op classes aren't designed or equipped to deal with serious learning disabilities.) My husband contributed to our homeschool through building and wood working projects "shop class/industrial arts", a subject where both have talent and interest. My son can type well and use word processing programs, and now has learned beginning CAD and computer programing. He performed in a play and participated on local sports teams. We taught Driver's Education and he got his driver's license. He got his first paying job.

My son was been homeschooled all along, and it's always been difficult to answer the question of what grade he's in. We've re-assessed what "school" and "high school" really means, and decided there is no need to rush "graduating" him from our home school. Our plan for next year is for him to take a few dual enrollment classes at either a college online or a trade school. We expect he'll graduate our homeschool around age 19 with some college and/or trade school credits, a job history and some marketable skills.

Barton taught me as a tutor to "Teach to Mastery"; I also recommend to "Teach to Talents". People with dyslexia typically have talents outside of traditional academics. In addition to remediating weaknesses, spend time developing talents. Provide opportunities for success and reduce the chances of failing. Take advantage of the opportunities homeschooling high school provides for an IEP-- a truly Individualized Education Plan. 

 

Thank you! I really needed to hear this.

[summerreading]

18 hours ago, BlsdMama said:

Is he affected in ways other than reading and writing? For example, where is he on math?  Also, what are his longterm plans?  Do you see a college degree in his future? 

 

 

Thank you, your reply was very helpful. He is "behind" in math, but catching up. He does work slowly and gets still confused with borrowing in subtraction and lining up long division. He is strong with visual spatial skills and I could see him happy as something like an architect. He designs and draws a lot.