Pay rate for "in home assistance" by relative

[Pegasus]

I'm managing the finances for a disabled relative.  Another relative (not a spouse or child) has offered to provide in home assistance for the care that he needs, which primarily includes preparing meals with cleanup, laundry, and overseeing his medication.  They will be in the same house so no transportation issues.  What is a reasonable pay rate for these services?  I want it to be fair as both parties are very low income. Area is low cost of living and the home is jointly owned by family so neither has any lodging costs beyond utilities. Even the property taxes are paid from a trust.

Thanks.

Peggy

Edited January 31, 2019 by Pegasus

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, Pegasus said:

I'm managing the finances for a disabled relative.  Another relative (not a spouse or child) has offered to provide in home assistance for the care that he needs, which primarily includes preparing meals, laundry, and overseeing his medication.  They will be in the same house so no transportation issues.  What is a reasonable pay rate for these services?  I want it to be fair as both parties are very low income.

Thanks.

Peggy

My former MIL pays $10 an hour for sitters.  I think they do about what you described above.  

[Scarlett]

Also have you checked to see if Home Health aid will pay for that assistance?

[TechWife]

6 minutes ago, Pegasus said:

I'm managing the finances for a disabled relative.  Another relative (not a spouse or child) has offered to provide in home assistance for the care that he needs, which primarily includes preparing meals with cleanup, laundry, and overseeing his medication.  They will be in the same house so no transportation issues.  What is a reasonable pay rate for these services?  I want it to be fair as both parties are very low income. Area is low cost of living and the home is jointly owned by family so neither has any lodging costs beyond utilities. Even the property taxes are paid from a trust.

Thanks.

Peggy

Sitters for my parents were $20 an hour. You will need to find the going rate in your area. Don't pay them any less than the going rate, it isn't fair to them. Their expenses are irrelevant - you need to pay them a fair price for the work they are doing.

Edited January 31, 2019 by TechWife

[Ottakee]

If they are low income and have medicaid (and maybe even Medicare) then I would call your local DHHS office and ask if they cover home help care.  In our area it is handled through adult protective services.

The rate of pay in West Michigan. Is about $10/hour.

[Pegasus]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

My former MIL pays $10 an hour for sitters.  I think they do about what you described above.  

This is helpful.  I'll need to make a judgement call on the amount of time it would take on a daily/weekly basis.  She would be cooking/cleaning up for herself at the same time which she would have to do anyway.  Should I account for that? Or, since HE would need it done even if it was just for him, account for the full amount of time?

[Ottakee]

I just read they are disabled....then certainly call the local DHHS office.  It is a very unknown program in our area as they don't tell you about it unless you specifically ask.

In some cases the money warned is not taxable or counted for the provider as any sort of income (in case they are on any social programs themselves).

[Pegasus]

Just now, Ottakee said:

If they are low income and have medicaid (and maybe even Medicare) then I would call your local DHHS office and ask if they cover home help care.  In our area it is handled through adult protective services.

The rate of pay in West Michigan. Is about $10/hour.

He'll be on Medicare once he has been on SSDI for two years. He is currently uninsured. He was turned down for the state medicaid program as he has a share in the jointly-owned family home and it was considered an asset.

We'll definitely be looking into any services in the area that may be available to him but this home is in the middle of nowhere, along a gravel road, with an hour's drive to anywhere bigger than a small country town. Not sure there is going to be much.

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Pegasus said:

He'll be on Medicare once he has been on SSDI for two years. He is currently uninsured. He was turned down for the state medicaid program as he has a share in the jointly-owned family home and it was considered an asset.

We'll definitely be looking into any services in the area that may be available to him but this home is in the middle of nowhere, along a gravel road, with an hour's drive to anywhere bigger than a small country town. Not sure there is going to be much.

You still might be able to get a DHS agency (Here they are called Home Health Aids) to pay the relative to help care for him. 

[Ottakee]

5 minutes ago, Pegasus said:

He'll be on Medicare once he has been on SSDI for two years. He is currently uninsured. He was turned down for the state medicaid program as he has a share in the jointly-owned family home and it was considered an asset.

We'll definitely be looking into any services in the area that may be available to him but this home is in the middle of nowhere, along a gravel road, with an hour's drive to anywhere bigger than a small country town. Not sure there is going to be much.

I would appeal that as they are allowed ONE home so if that is his only home then he might still qualify.

[Pegasus]

Just now, Scarlett said:

You still might be able to get a DHS agency (Here they are called Home Health Aids) to pay the relative to help care for him. 

Thank you for the information.  We will definitely follow up on all of these leads being suggested. Very much appreciated!  We'll also re-apply for the state medicaid as he was turned down when he wasn't living in the family home in which he owns a share. I think they may account for the property asset differently if they live there.

[Pegasus]

2 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

I would appeal that as they are allowed ONE home so if that is his only home then he might still qualify.

Exactly what I'm hoping!

[school17777]

My neighbor does this through an agency.  She gets $16 an hour, however the client pays more than that to the agency.

[Arcadia]

We have local nannies who does cooking and some basic housework so I would pay someone a similar rate to do the things you mentioned. 

I would still pay for housework even though your relative would probably have run a load to wash her own laundry anyway. That’s because your relative would be doing household chores for her relative as the priority/focus and at the request of the disabled relative. So kind of like being at the beck and call of the disabled relative.

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, school17777 said:

My neighbor does this through an agency.  She gets $16 an hour, however the client pays more than that to the agency.

Wow that seems high, are you in a large city?

 

[ksr5377]

Around me (rural, town populations ranging from 800-8000, anything larger more than an hour away) home health workers earn around $10/hr.  If they are an STNA (state licensed aid) they earn an additional $1-2/hr.  

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, ksr5377 said:

Around me (rural, town populations ranging from 800-8000, anything larger more than an hour away) home health workers earn around $10/hr.  If they are an STNA (state licensed aid) they earn an additional $1-2/hr.  

Yes that area describes my area too.  But my XMIL lives in Shreveport and pays $10 per hour--but hers is 24 hour sitters....one she had a few yeas back stole a check from her, but she realized it and got her money back and the thief went to jail.  Ugh.  So that is one good reason to hire a relative. 

[moonflower]

in my area minimum wage is quite low and CNAs and home health aides are not paid well.  They often have to use government services to make up the difference.

I'd prefer to pay someone a living wage than just the lowest I can get away with.

[school17777]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

Wow that seems high, are you in a large city?

 

 

No, I’m rural, for our area anyway.

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, moonflower said:

in my area minimum wage is quite low and CNAs and home health aides are not paid well.  They often have to use government services to make up the difference.

I'd prefer to pay someone a living wage than just the lowest I can get away with.

The OP is not paying for it herself....managing the disabled person's finances.  

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Pegasus said:

This is helpful.  I'll need to make a judgement call on the amount of time it would take on a daily/weekly basis.  She would be cooking/cleaning up for herself at the same time which she would have to do anyway.  Should I account for that? Or, since HE would need it done even if it was just for him, account for the full amount of time?

If possible I would not deduct for the helper living in the home because I would add that back on for having someone I can trust.  I hope that convoluted sentence made sense.  🙂

[TechWife]

Just now, Scarlett said:

If possible I would not deduct for the helper living in the home because I would add that back on for having someone I can trust.  I hope that convoluted sentence made sense.  🙂

Especially if they are part owner in the home. You don't pay people less for living in their own home.

Honestly, the easy way to do this is find out what the going rate in your area is and pay that. The person's own financial situation is irrelevant. Pay what the job is worth.

[mlktwins]

I am in a high COLA and I was paying $25/hour for help with my dad (included driving him to appts).

[elegantlion]

Another concern might be how you are going to calculate hours. If they're living in the home and doing meal prep, do you count it as work if they're doing their own meals at the same time? While I agree they should be paid, I would have some clear-cut explanations as to what counts as paid/unpaid or simply pay a weekly allowance. 

[Scarlett]

Just now, elegantlion said:

Another concern might be how you are going to calculate hours. If they're living in the home and doing meal prep, do you count it as work if they're doing their own meals at the same time? While I agree they should be paid, I would have some clear-cut explanations as to what counts as paid/unpaid or simply pay a weekly allowance. 

Probably just a set number of hours per week.  I think exact time would be too difficult to calculate.

[gardenmom5]

I would find out what the going rate is in their area for these services, both private payer and Medicaid provided.  that would give them a guideline.

an acquaintance has a severely disabled daughter.  when she turned 21, the state paid her adult son to be her caretaker.

[theelfqueen]

I saw an ad just the other day about getting paid through insurance to be a caregiver for your ailing family member. I thought it was interesting. And then here's this. 

I'm shocked at all the lower numbers as min wage in my states is $11.10 /hr.

Edited January 31, 2019 by theelfqueen

[Faith-manor]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Wow that seems high, are you in a large city?

 

This is normal with a home health agency. They get quite a bit more and often have to take travel expenses out of it if clients are less than 10 miles apart so that is built into the hourly rate, and then the costs of operation plus profit for the agency.

Independently contracted CNA's in the Detroit Suburban area get an average of $12.16, and this would be typical work for them especially med routines and such as well as help with bathing/self care. Some would also make meals and such. Most agencies do not offer housework except cleaning up after making a meal, and sometimes disinfecting a bathroom particularly if a client has an infectious issue. Just providing companionship/sitting would not be offered.

Our county has an agency for the aging and disabled, and through taxes and grants, offer once per week housekeeping such as vacuuming, dusting, mopping, washing counters. This is a free service to people who qualify so the OP should see if this is available.

I was brutally disappointed when a petition to get medicaid/medicare to pay for in home help - non skilled nursing - failed. Its crazy. Many disabled and elder persons end up in nursing homes on Medicare/Medicaid at $3500-$6000 a month. Meanwhile, providing a CNA once per day to make up some sandwiches, salads, soup whatever, help with self care, check that meds have been taken on time, and clean a bathroom is maybe $40 a day or $800 a month. Paying a relative to do some housework or provide the same service, again, so much less than a nursing home that it's a staggering savings to the tax payer. But nope. The initiative failed! I don't get it.

OP, also my parents contracted with a lady in the community who was retired and wanted to make some extra money. My grandmother did not require skilled care, nor did she need lifting, just someone to walk with her when she went into the kitchen or bathroom, and keep a hold of her gate belt to steady her, then make meals, hand her pills at the right time, and vacuum, tidy up. She was allowed to bring books, embroidery, whatever hobby stuff she wanted because my grandmother slept quite a bit. She asked for $200 a week for Mon - Fri from 8:30 am. to 5:30 p.m. So it was a lot of hours, but she wasn't physically working for a lot of that time, and often got to sew, cross stitch, read, and nap. Maybe so that is something to consider. If the situation is similar, this relative will be on the clock for emergencies but not necessarily doing specific tasks, and enjoying free time. Instead of looking at it by the hour, look at it more like a blanket weekly salary.

[TechWife]

28 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

This is normal with a home health agency. They get quite a bit more and often have to take travel expenses out of it if clients are less than 10 miles apart so that is built into the hourly rate, and then the costs of operation plus profit for the agency.

Independently contracted CNA's in the Detroit Suburban area get an average of $12.16, and this would be typical work for them especially med routines and such as well as help with bathing/self care. Some would also make meals and such. Most agencies do not offer housework except cleaning up after making a meal, and sometimes disinfecting a bathroom particularly if a client has an infectious issue. Just providing companionship/sitting would not be offered.

Our county has an agency for the aging and disabled, and through taxes and grants, offer once per week housekeeping such as vacuuming, dusting, mopping, washing counters. This is a free service to people who qualify so the OP should see if this is available.

I was brutally disappointed when a petition to get medicaid/medicare to pay for in home help - non skilled nursing - failed. Its crazy. Many disabled and elder persons end up in nursing homes on Medicare/Medicaid at $3500-$6000 a month. Meanwhile, providing a CNA once per day to make up some sandwiches, salads, soup whatever, help with self care, check that meds have been taken on time, and clean a bathroom is maybe $40 a day or $800 a month. Paying a relative to do some housework or provide the same service, again, so much less than a nursing home that it's a staggering savings to the tax payer. But nope. The initiative failed! I don't get it.

OP, also my parents contracted with a lady in the community who was retired and wanted to make some extra money. My grandmother did not require skilled care, nor did she need lifting, just someone to walk with her when she went into the kitchen or bathroom, and keep a hold of her gate belt to steady her, then make meals, hand her pills at the right time, and vacuum, tidy up. She was allowed to bring books, embroidery, whatever hobby stuff she wanted because my grandmother slept quite a bit. She asked for $200 a week for Mon - Fri from 8:30 am. to 5:30 p.m. So it was a lot of hours, but she wasn't physically working for a lot of that time, and often got to sew, cross stitch, read, and nap. Maybe so that is something to consider. If the situation is similar, this relative will be on the clock for emergencies but not necessarily doing specific tasks, and enjoying free time. Instead of looking at it by the hour, look at it more like a blanket weekly salary.

That’s only $4.44 per hour - much less than the Federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. No wonder it’s hard to find responsible care givers if they aren’t paid commensurate with their responsibilities. This person that was so underpaid was responsible for medication administration, nutrition, fall prevention and environmental services. At nine hours a day, she regularly worked 5 hours of overtime each week with no breaks and no additional compensation. Did your parents take care of her SS taxes and income tax withholding or did she have to take care of that on her own?

FWIW, from the perspective of labor laws, it does not matter if she was allowed to do her hobbies while the client slept - she was required to be in a specific location, at a specific time, ready to do specific tasks that were determined by her employer. 

Im constantly amazed at how little we value caregivers for the vulnerable our country. Children, disabled and elderly. I do think it reflects on how little we value them as people. Yikes! 

 

[TechWife]

48 minutes ago, theelfqueen said:

I saw an ad just the other day about getting paid through insurance to be a caregiver for your ailing family member. I thought it was interesting. And then here's this. 

I'm shocked at all the lower numbers as min wage in my states is $11.10 /hr.

In my state it’s just the Federal minimum wage $7.25 per hour. 

[TechWife]

1 hour ago, elegantlion said:

Another concern might be how you are going to calculate hours. If they're living in the home and doing meal prep, do you count it as work if they're doing their own meals at the same time? While I agree they should be paid, I would have some clear-cut explanations as to what counts as paid/unpaid or simply pay a weekly allowance. 

Yes, you do. They do not have control over where to prepare their meals, therefore they are working. 

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, TechWife said:

That’s only $4.44 per hour - much less than the Federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. No wonder it’s hard to find responsible care givers if they aren’t paid commensurate with their responsibilities. This person that was so underpaid was responsible for medication administration, nutrition, fall prevention and environmental services. At nine hours a day, she regularly worked 5 hours of overtime each week with no breaks and no additional compensation. Did your parents take care of her SS taxes and income tax withholding or did she have to take care of that on her own?

FWIW, from the perspective of labor laws, it does not matter if she was allowed to do her hobbies while the client slept - she was required to be in a specific location, at a specific time, ready to do specific tasks that were determined by her employer. 

Im constantly amazed at how little we value caregivers for the vulnerable our country. Children, disabled and elderly. I do think it reflects on how little we value them as people. Yikes! 

 

Again, the negotiated rate was because my grandmother slept the bulk of the day. She also didn't want to earn more because it would mess her up with SS and taxes.

Most employers don't pay for people to take naps, work on their own sewing, etc. If grandma had been awake more, then absolutely she would have been paid a lot more.

[Melissa in Australia]

Here the rate the elderly person pays is way less than the pay the personal carer receives. Personal carers are paid between $25 to $30 hour. But the elderly person may be only paying $7 - $15 depending on their funding package

[Melissa in Australia]

Forgot to add minimum wage here is just under $20 hour

[TechWife]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

Again, the negotiated rate was because my grandmother slept the bulk of the day. She also didn't want to earn more because it would mess her up with SS and taxes.

Most employers don't pay for people to take naps, work on their own sewing, etc. If grandma had been awake more, then absolutely she would have been paid a lot more.

That doesn't negate anything I said, though. She was still paid far less than the Federal minimum wage and overall we have an issue with how much we value caregivers in our culture. That is an extension, I think, of how we value those they are taking care of.

Edited January 31, 2019 by TechWife

[Wheres Toto]

I worked as a CNA on an 11pm to 7am shift.  Other than getting people up in the morning, we were really just there in case something happened.   We could sit and read, nap, doodle, whatever we wanted to do.  We were still paid for all the hours we were there.

[Pegasus]

I sincerely appreciate all this discussion. Please feel free to add more and I will be returning to make sure I glean the information and experience of the board! It's really helping.

I called and talked to the would-be carer relative to explain more clearly what would and would not be needed from her and to get an understanding of what her own expectations of a reasonable payment would be.  She really wasn't sure and suggested between $20 and $50 a week!  I reminded her of all that she would be assisting with on a daily basis and bluntly stated that wasn't enough. She later called back and suggested $350 per month, including the cost of groceries to feed him. Again, not enough, he has a pretty good appetite and could eat much of that.

[TechWife]

1 hour ago, Pegasus said:

I sincerely appreciate all this discussion. Please feel free to add more and I will be returning to make sure I glean the information and experience of the board! It's really helping.

I called and talked to the would-be carer relative to explain more clearly what would and would not be needed from her and to get an understanding of what her own expectations of a reasonable payment would be.  She really wasn't sure and suggested between $20 and $50 a week!  I reminded her of all that she would be assisting with on a daily basis and bluntly stated that wasn't enough. She later called back and suggested $350 per month, including the cost of groceries to feed him. Again, not enough, he has a pretty good appetite and could eat much of that.

Wow, I agree. That’s not enough. I would it figure the cost of groceries into the pay rate at all. The reimbursement for that should be totally separate. 

[Frances]

7 hours ago, moonflower said:

in my area minimum wage is quite low and CNAs and home health aides are not paid well.  They often have to use government services to make up the difference.

I'd prefer to pay someone a living wage than just the lowest I can get away with.

I agree. The daycare thread recently where people were only paying $25 per child per day just blew my mind. The elder care described here actually sounds significantly easier.

[Ottakee]

Caregiving is very underpaid in our country.  I currently make $10.75/hour as a teacher's assistant in a classroom for severely multiply impaired students ages 18-26.....think non ambulatory or walking with a 2 person assist, cognitive functioning of 0-18 months, total toileting care, total feeding and/or tube feeding, one on oxygen full time, etc.
 

Back to OP.  I would do groceries separate from the care giving.  you can look on line at USDA charts for guidelines for food costs based on area of country, # of people and thrifty, budget, moderate, etc. plan.  Then also consider paper products/cleaning products, etc.

If the person does qualify for medicaid, then they likely can qualify for a bridge card that can help with food costs.

Depending on the person's trust account amount I think a daily rate of at least $10 up to $30 or so would be fair.....so $300-900/month.....again, depending on how much they they have to do, if they are free to say I am not available certain days/times if they want to do something else, etc.  There are just so many variables.

[Melissa in Australia]

I know one of my sil is charging her mother (, Mil) $100 per day for weekend stay. She is in Canada. 

[WendyLady]

I work at a group home for teens in crisis.  The direct care folks start at $11.50/hour. (This is a little more than my dd was paid through an at home care company where she would go sit with clients through the night and assist with limited care while she was a nursing student.) Counselors at our facility (with masters degrees) working with youth with behavioral health and addiction issues start at $15-17.  I cannot believe their wages are so low, but it seems to be the going rate in our area.  

Depending on what we could afford I would probably offer $10/hour and calculate about 3 hours of care/day - just over $200/week.  I would not calculate food costs into that amount, and offer a weekly food budget, possibly asking for receipts. I would probably ask the carer to provide a weekly menu and to share a google calendar for appointments and outings, etc.  I would also ask for a weekly check-in email where you can have a list of things for her to report back to you about the health and wellness of your relative.

 

 

[Ali in OR]

In Oregon my disabled dd's caregivers get about $14.50 per hour (one of her siblings is occasionally one of her caregivers). This money comes from the state through our county's Developmental Disabilities office. An agency charges about twice that for their overhead and pay their caregivers at a similar $14-something per hour. We provide dd's food or money to go out separately and do not provide food for the caregivers (except if it's our other dd!)

[QueenCat]

I would pay the going rate for the area MINUS a reasonable amount for room & board (half the cost of operating the home & food). 

[moonflower]

the home is not owned by either person, but by the family (of which they are both part) as a whole.