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Murphy101

Community college inappropriateness vent

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My 17 yr old came home from her intro to psychology class really upset because her teacher put her on the spot as to blame for why the class wouldn’t be able to go on a “field trip” to a strip club. With 5 kids and 8 years of classes there, we have never had such an outlandish issue with a teacher before. There is zero educational or professional value to such a requirement in an introduction to psychology course.  Very confrontation adverse 17 yr old is very upset that in a month at 18th bday the teacher will require it. I pointed out the teacher cannot require this and someone should report this unprofessionalism as a teacher and a psychologist.

And before someone goes off about how that’s just how colleges/community colleges are - that’s just bull.  This isn’t our first or tenth experience and never have encountered such before.  Maybe talking about strip clubs in conversations around them, but never had a teacher suggest something unethical as a grade requirement.

 

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Has the professor required this before and gotten away with it? As a 30-something year old, I would refuse to participate if it were me taking the class. That's absurd. I would *hope* that the community college doesn't know what's going on and that if they did, they'd put the kabosh on this little requirement of his. 

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Wow, I really thought this was going to be a complaint about risque poetry or something 😲

Also, the strip club doesn't want a bunch of broke-a$$ college students taking up space 😄

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What is the purpose in going?  What is the actual assignment?  She should include all of these things in her complaint to the dean.  

That is just strange.

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Well, if you are in Atlanta or Houston, It might not be that all inappropriate. I understand business and  town hall meetings are conducted there. Some strippers are local celebrities. 

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What the heck ??!!

I have a psych degree - it did not require being on the premises of a strip club.

That's highly unethical and I would be complaining all the way to the top.

Your poor dd17. Tell her from me her teacher is appalling. And I 100% support her, as a psych grad, in NOT being coerced into attending a strip club. And if I was in the class, at any age, I would not go.

Edited by StellaM
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My initial reaction to reading this was "JUST. HEEEEEEEEEEEELL NO!"

I wonder if the professor would be privy to her birth date. She might not so if dd doesn't divulge it, that would be one thing potentially solved.

I cannot imagine how this is appropriate and especially for an introductory level class. I mean, maybe for an upper level human sexuality class, and then if it were me, I'd take the consequences of not showing up, or fake hacking up a lung or something.

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I am surprised the professor would have even known her age and that she was not 18 yet.  I cannot imagine this being a requirement for an introductory psychology class.  As a professor, even if I had a movie that I thought had educational value, but had explicit strip club scenes in it, I would provide students with an alternative assignment if they chose.  

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I don't know what the agenda is here. Can she ask exactly what educational contribution a visit to a strip provides in the context of academic requirements? I have taken many psychology related classes but have never been required to attend a strip club. Even Human Sexuality can be covered frankly and accurately without a site visit. I would love to have a conversation with this professor. Is he a frequent visitor and feels this is something he wants to "share" with his students??

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Wait...what?!  Are they supposed to go and watch the strippers stripping?   Or were they supposed to go on off hours and talk with the strippers or with the staff?  

I just can’t wrap my head around a professor requiring people to go and watch people stripping.  

So many people find stripping morally wrong and to force people to go (and then shaming them because it’s not legal to go) is on such shaky ground for the college.  Many women are so very ethically opposed to strip clubs (and many men are, too), because of how degrading it is for women.  

Is this professor going to take them to a dog fight next?  

 

In an era of #metoo, and on a college campus, I would think that this would put the college in very hot water if people knew what was going on.  My dh works at a community college and this is the sort of thing you take directly to the president of the college.  The person in charge of the college needs to know what’s going on.  This is the sort of thing that if newspapers catch a whiff of it, they’ll print stories about it and the college will NOT come out looking good.  This sounds like a rogue professor and you’d be doing the college a huge service to let people above this professor know what’s going on.  I’d imagine they’d shut this down promptly.

Edited by Garga
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Hell no.  I’d go all the way to the top and public if I needed to.  This is so gross.  I think the professor is getting off on ‘forcing’ students to go watch other people take their clothes off.  They’re a pervert.   And no, I don’t care if an adult wants to *willingly* go to a strip club.  It's the fact that this professor is requiring this that is all kinds of disturbing.  

 

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Is there an actual written assignment somehwere for this?  On the syllabus or something?. Is there anything that explains the educational purpose of this?  I’m so very curious.

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That is very, very strange. Was it in the syllabus on the first day? Is no alternative offered? And why couldn’t they still go even if one student did not or could not attend? It’s all just very bizarre.

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The teacher sounds like a real weirdo. I would be very leery of what else is going to be happening in that class.

Can your dd drop the class and take something else?

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1 minute ago, Selkie said:

The teacher sounds like a real weirdo. I would be very leery of what else is going to be happening in that class.

Can your dd drop the class and take something else?

Yep. Psych professor emotionally manipulating and pushing sexualized content. It's a red flag parade.

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I can maybe imagine, if I try, why a course of some kind might go to a strip club.  Like, maybe something in criminology.  Maybe.

This seems really stupid and a waste of time if nothing else, though.  And it is pretty foolish in terms of many students are likely to find it a moral issue - that is not something a teacher should treat lightly.  It's disrespectful of the students and suggests to me this person likes being in a position of power.

I too am curious what the supposed purpose of this visit is.

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I'm usually one of those people who says colleges teach adults and anyone who is not an adult but attending college should not expect special treatment, but this is just ridiculous. I can't even understand it being required in an upper level psychology class let alone intro to psych. Maybe, maybe, it could be discussed in class but even then I have a hard time figuring out how it fits in psychology studies.

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What the what.  Shocking is right.  I would be screaming all the way to the top if I had to.  Pm me the name of the professor so I can make sure ds avoids him!

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I first would have her email the professor and ask him to clarify the assignment and to ask for accomodations/alternate assignment due to her age. I would only email him. Once he answers in written format and confirms the assignment/age issue, then I would respond with a few CCs. 

I would make sure to mention that for him to single out her age in front of the class and to make a point to say that her minor status was having a negative impact on the normal operations in this class, violates federal laws on age discrimination. Assuming the college gets any type of federal funding...they are bound by federal laws.

  • §110.10   Rules against age discrimination.

  • The rules stated in this section are subject to the exceptions contained in §§110.12 and 110.13 of these regulations.
  • (a) General rule. No person in the United States shall, on the basis of age, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.
  • (b) Specific rules. A recipient may not, in any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance, directly or through contractual, licensing, or other arrangements, use age distinctions or take any other actions that have the effect, on the basis of age, of—
  • (1) Excluding individuals from, denying them the benefits of, or subjecting them to discrimination under a program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance; or
  • (2) Denying or limiting individuals in their opportunity to participate in any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.
  • (c) Other forms of discrimination. The specific forms of age discrimination listed in paragraph (b) of this section do not necessarily constitute a complete list.

I would cc the head of the department, dean and professor. I would ask her to see if a few friends in the class heard the same thing, and took it seriously. If they did also, then definitely file a complaint with the witness statements. If nothing else just to prevent the teacher from doing this again to another student. 

 

The ick factor is obvious, but not likely not illegal.  Age discrimination is. The college will have to respond to that, even if they choose to ignore the ick factor. It may also be a way for the college to reprimand him for something that they can prove vs. personal taste.

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Your daughter needs to go to the Dean and keep going up the chain until this professor is made to stop.  The requirement raises all sorts of red flags!  This prof is opening up the college to a long list of sexual harassment charges! 

I don't really care if people strip as a profession, as long as they are treated well and it's their choice, yet I would absolutely NOT feel comfortable going to a strip club with anyone in a position of authority over me, (like...a professor!).  I mean, I wouldn't want to go to a strip club at all, but doubly not with some dude that is basically my boss. 

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5 minutes ago, Library Momma said:

Are you certain that the teacher wasn't just making some sort of unfortunate joke about her being under 18?

My thought was that surely it was a crude and inappropriate joke. I can think of a a few teachers I had that would make a joke like that in an effort to be cool or funny or edgy. My mind can’t even consider it to be real it is so “off”. Just no.

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29 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

I'm usually one of those people who says colleges teach adults and anyone who is not an adult but attending college should not expect special treatment, but this is just ridiculous. I can't even understand it being required in an upper level psychology class let alone intro to psych. Maybe, maybe, it could be discussed in class but even then I have a hard time figuring out how it fits in psychology studies.

 This is sort of what I was thinking, except there are plenty of 17-year-olds in college.  Not just dual enrollment students, but kids who graduate early, skip a grade, have an early-in-the-year birthday, whatever. 

But her age is not preventing the class from going anyway, that's just BS.  If it were true, she would be given an alternate assignment while the rest of the class goes. And, I can hardly believe that others wouldn't opt out and take an alternate assignment as well.  Probably 95% of the people I know would not go to a strip club for a school assignment.  

I hope your DD is fighting this, starting with the department head and moving up as necessary.  This is harassment and creating a hostile environment. If this was truly a requirement, it would have been in the syllabus and noted on the first day of class that anyone who wouldn't go should drop the class.  

Edited by marbel
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8 minutes ago, Library Momma said:

Are you certain that the teacher wasn't just making some sort of unfortunate joke about her being under 18?

 

It's a highly inappropriate 'joke' to a minor, if so.

And if this is the case, he should be counselled about using professional communication at all times.

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A field trip to a strip club in an introductory psychology class would fall under Title IX.  This is a case where I would not go to the department or the dean, but would go directly to the Title IX reporting officer on campus.  The department chair, or any other university employee would be required to take the matter to this person anyway.  To save your daughter time and hassle, I would suggest that she just start with the Title IX reporting officer.  That person should be clearly identified on the school's website.

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I am stunned 😳 In my sexual psychology class we had videos every Friday that were pornographic and had a panel of people come who were in the stripping profession as well as a panel of people with sexual fetishes. It was graphic and it was not allowed to be taken by freshmen or sophomores. There was always a legitimate rationale for every video and/or guest. I would report a professor at the CC level teaching any introductory course who required this. That is waaaayyyyy out of bounds. You have every right to think that is an outlandish request because it is.

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Any chance the teacher was joking?

I can't imagine this being for real.  Someone should complain.

I do remember being the 16/17yo and being very uncomfortable with some discussions in college - especially how every poem in Intro to Poetry was supposedly about sex.  For the most part, I would say, deal with it - but being required to go to a strip club?  Really?

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I also opened this thread thinking it'd be about risque poetry or the teacher dropping the f-bomb or something else that could go either way. This is... wow. I don't even have words to describe how bizarre this is. And, yes, wholly inappropriate!

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22 minutes ago, marbel said:

 This is sort of what I was thinking, except there are plenty of 17-year-olds in college.  Not just dual enrollment students, but kids who graduate early, skip a grade, have an early birthday, whatever. 

 

That's true. I was 17 when I started college.

Even if it's given as an extra credit it's still weird. And there should be an alternate extra credit option for those who can't go, such as minors, or those who have any kind of objection to strip clubs.

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One of the face-to-face psych teachers at the local community college showed the kids porn during the sexuality unit. Thankfully I knew about that because I used to work there.

Mine took it online with a different professor even though she is now a sophomore. Just not something she wanted to experience. She's taking criminology now for her second social science, and it's a little edgy too, but no trips to strip club!

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6 minutes ago, G5052 said:

One of the face-to-face psych teachers at the local community college showed the kids porn during the sexuality unit. Thankfully I knew about that because I used to work there.

Mine took it online with a different professor even though she is now a sophomore. Just not something she wanted to experience. She's taking criminology now for her second social science, and it's a little edgy too, but no trips to strip club!

 

This just makes me snort. What college age student (or even younger) needs to be shown porn in class? They have most likely already seen it and even those who have not seen it explicitly, know what it is.

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22 minutes ago, G5052 said:

One of the face-to-face psych teachers at the local community college showed the kids porn during the sexuality unit. Thankfully I knew about that because I used to work there.

Mine took it online with a different professor even though she is now a sophomore. Just not something she wanted to experience. She's taking criminology now for her second social science, and it's a little edgy too, but no trips to strip club!

Doesn’t that psych teacher know about the negative effects of watching porn, especially on a developing brain?  Doesn’t that psych teacher know that brains aren’t done developing into the early 20’s?  What a moron.  And not everyone has watched porn at that age.  Seriously.  They haven’t.  And if they have, perhaps they’re trying not to because they know how badly it can affect someone.  So introducing porn in a intro to psych class is irresponsible

Do the chemistry or biology professors have the kids try a little bit of pot in class, just to see how it affects a human because after all, the students are all getting high anyway? 

If you’re taking an advanced class and do need to learn about human sexuality for your future profession counselling, then yes.  I can see this being done, and picked apart and analysed.  But in required Psych 101 type classes?  One of the first classes that students take fresh out of high school?  No. No no no.  No no no no no.

Edited by Garga
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Is there any mention of this on Rate My Professor? 

Even if there is a possibly reasonable educational explanation (can't think of one), I would think it would be optional for extra-credit and not required. 

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1 hour ago, Garga said:

Doesn’t that psych teacher know about the negative effects of watching porn, especially on a developing brain?  Doesn’t that psych teacher know that brains aren’t done developing into the early 20’s?  

Adding to this... Doesn’t that psych professor know many people are dealing with porn addictions and are trying very hard to AVOID porn?

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1 hour ago, Garga said:

Doesn’t that psych teacher know about the negative effects of watching porn, especially on a developing brain?  Doesn’t that psych teacher know that brains aren’t done developing into the early 20’s?  What a moron.  And not everyone has watched porn at that age.  Seriously.  They haven’t.  And if they have, perhaps they’re trying not to because they know how badly it can affect someone.  So introducing porn in a intro to psych class is irresponsible

Do the chemistry or biology professors have the kids try a little bit of pot in class, just to see how it affects a human because after all, the students are all getting high anyway? 

If you’re taking an advanced class and do need to learn about human sexuality for your future profession counselling, then yes.  I can see this being done, and picked apart and analysed.  But in required Psych 101 type classes?  One of the first classes that students take fresh out of high school?  No. No no no.  No no no no no.

 

Very true. And even advanced studies in Counseling Psychology do not require porn watching even though its triggers and effects are discussed. 

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In my son's community college sociology class, they are watching a movie that is "R" rated, as well as reading a book that may have triggers for some people.   The teacher allows the students to substitute something else for those assignments.  No condemnation, no scene.   I think that is the way these types of things should be handled. Although it seems to me that the powers that be should not allow a strip club visit at all.  I agree, no educational reason for that.

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In short, this is a misogynistic field trip to say the least. I'm sort of speechless. And some of you know what my graduate work and work afterward was in, so I'm not one to blanche easily. 

Here would be my approach. 

I wouldn't bother with the professor, or GA, or who ever the hell this peon is. I'd go to the Dean's office immediately upon business hours opening. If you do not have a reply from the Dean's Office within 2 hours that is taking your complaint seriously,  I would contact my local state representatives offices, as well as state senator's office, and then US Rep's and US Senator's offices as well. They LOVE things like this. And will usually be far more helpful than people ever give them credit for. These are your tax dollars at work. They can move a needle. Don't be afraid to take advantage of being a constituent. 

If you would like to see college officials dance on a hot griddle and come begging, involve the State and US Senate offices. There is no need to mess around with something like this and fume silently at home. I wouldn't put up with this bullshit for one second. Trying to convince undergraduate intro students that strip clubs hold some academic value and/or that  the exploitation of women and sex trafficking is normal is NOT okay. They're paying to get in that club. They're funding it.  It's not okay to require that as part of a class. And its not okay for some skeez ass intro to Psych professor to get his or her rocks off putting young students in "interesting" moral predicaments. Get that person fired. Today. That would be my suggestion. And blowing it up fast and hard- that's how you do it. Good luck. I'm pissed for you. There are too many decent professors who can't get spots teaching in schools to waste space on some asshat like your dc is dealing with. I would unload on them with ever breath and dime I had until they rued the day they had ever dreamed this perverted little scheme up. 

 

Edited by Æthelthryth the Texan
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14 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

In short, this is a misogynistic field trip to say the least. I'm sort of speechless. And some of you know what my graduate work and work afterward was in, so I'm not one to blanche easily. 

Here would be my approach. 

I wouldn't bother with the professor, or GA, or who ever the hell this peon is. I'd go to the Dean's office immediately upon business hours opening. If you do not have a reply from the Dean's Office within 2 hours that is taking your complaint seriously,  I would contact my local state representatives offices, as well as state senator's office, and then US Rep's and US Senator's offices as well. They LOVE things like this. And will usually be far more helpful than people ever give them credit for. These are your tax dollars at work. They can move a needle. Don't be afraid to take advantage of being a constituent. 

If you would like to see college officials dance on a hot griddle and come begging, involve the State and US Senate offices. There is no need to mess around with something like this and fume silently at home. I wouldn't put up with this bullshit for one second. Trying to convince undergraduate intro students that strip clubs hold some academic value and/or that  the exploitation of women and sex trafficking is normal is NOT okay. They're paying to get in that club. They're funding it.  It's not okay to require that as part of a class. And its not okay for some skeez ass intro to Psych professor to get his or her rocks off putting young students in "interesting" moral predicaments. Get that person fired. Today. That would be my suggestion. And blowing it up fast and hard- that's how you do it. Good luck. I'm pissed for you. There are too many decent professors who can't get spots teaching in schools to waste space on some asshat like your dc is dealing with. I would unload on them with ever breath and dime I had until they rued the day they had ever dreamed this perverted little scheme up. 

 

 

Let's have a halleluja chorus.

I was thinking this (bolded) but was too cautious to type it out.  🙂

Amen. Murphy take a page out of this playbook. 

ETA: I just had a blessed vision of this happening in your neck of the woods and you walking into the Dean's office, mentioning your Thesis title and warning them that you don't intimidate easily. Ahhh, it felt good!   🤣

Edited by Liz CA
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Makes you wonder if the professor isn't doing some sort of psychological study on the students and how they'll respond. What an absurd assignment.  

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My 14 yr old has taken four psych and sociology classes so far (she’s majoring in psych for her AS), including abnormal psych and race, class and gender studies. She says the only time strip clubs have come up is when an international student asked what that “diamonds” place was near campus, and that was over lunch, not in class. 

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2 hours ago, Library Momma said:

Are you certain that the teacher wasn't just making some sort of unfortunate joke about her being under 18?

This is my only thought.  This is so out there in terms of stuff that shouldn’t happen I hope it’s somehow been misinterpreted!

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2 hours ago, SKL said:

Any chance the teacher was joking?

I can't imagine this being for real.  Someone should complain.

I do remember being the 16/17yo and being very uncomfortable with some discussions in college - especially how every poem in Intro to Poetry was supposedly about sex.  For the most part, I would say, deal with it - but being required to go to a strip club?  Really?

why would you think it was a joke?

I'm glad it's apparently beyond your experience, but it happens.

54 minutes ago, Serenade said:

In my son's community college sociology class, they are watching a movie that is "R" rated, as well as reading a book that may have triggers for some people.   The teacher allows the students to substitute something else for those assignments.  No condemnation, no scene.   I think that is the way these types of things should be handled. Although it seems to me that the powers that be should not allow a strip club visit at all.  I agree, no educational reason for that.

we read I know why the caged bird sings in high school. I reached the point where she's talking about her molestation, and teen pregnancy, and I just couldn't.  the teacher substituted the chosen (which I enjoyed).  even though IKWTCBS was triggering - I was an adult before I realized why.   I had been molested at four, and was being sexually harassed as a teen.  no one was on my side.

 

the other group that really likes this sort of story - news outlets.

we have some friends whose twin grandbabies both needed bone marrow transplants.  their insurance company didn't want to pay anymore as they'd already paid a lot for their medical needs.  she had connections with someone who offered the insurance company a front page article in the LA times about how they were denying coverage for a set of infant twins.  the insurance company paid up.

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That's crazy and I'd for sure be complaining to the higher ups about it. For some, that is just a hard no.

I still remember ticking off all of my in-laws (Hubby had my back) when we visited them in Vegas and MIL bought all the ladies tickets to Chippendales. I told them thanks but that it wasn't something I was going to do. Many still don't like me because of that one thing. 

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1 minute ago, Joker said:

That's crazy and I'd for sure be complaining to the higher ups about it. For some, that is just a hard no.

I still remember ticking off all of my in-laws (Hubby had my back) when we visited them in Vegas and MIL bought all the ladies tickets to Chippendales. I told them thanks but that it wasn't something I was going to do. Many still don't like me because of that one thing. 

I lived near Toronto during college, and a lot of girls would cross the border to see what they euphemistically called "The Canadian Ballet".  A friend kept pestering me to go with her until I told her that I had a boyfriend who would happily let me see him naked *for free*, so I didn't feel a big need to pay to see someone else's boyfriend in the same condition, lol.   

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I had a very long and detailed convo with 17 yr old late tonight.  

The teacher was discussing ethics in psychological experiments in what appears to be a very stupid and unethical manner.  The teacher said she had to study strip clubs in grad school and was explaining that she thought it would be a very good idea if her students gave it try too.  After all, they are all adults and they might find it an entertaining psychological study. And she'd love to discuss it with them in class if they did do that.  To which, my kid sitting in the front row quietly muttered a relieved sentiment that she's glad to not be an adult yet. And the teacher acted shocked and laughed that well she'd be 18 eventually and maybe some classmates would take her for her birthday. Just wtf.

So... it's unprofessional as both a psychologist and a teacher.  But it was not an actual requirement of class.  

Dd and I discussed how that wasn't ethical.  If the woman actually studied this in grad school, she should know that encouraging exploitation and degradation as some kind of "fun" experiment is not okay.  She has no way of knowing what such actions could lead to for those students, but as a family and marriage therapist profession, ( I was WHAT?! When I saw that.), she should know it is rarely beneficial to the health of any of the people involved or in relationships with those involved.

We also discussed how if this continues or gets worse, the various ways to deal with that. 

Just ugh.  Proof that a degree, even a masters, doesn't make a person smart or ethical. *smh*

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19 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I had a very long and detailed convo with 17 yr old late tonight.  

The teacher was discussing ethics in psychological experiments in what appears to be a very stupid and unethical manner.  The teacher said she had to study strip clubs in grad school and was explaining that she thought it would be a very good idea if her students gave it try too.  After all, they are all adults and they might find it an entertaining psychological study. And she'd love to discuss it with them in class if they did do that.  To which, my kid sitting in the front row quietly muttered a relieved sentiment that she's glad to not be an adult yet. And the teacher acted shocked and laughed that well she'd be 18 eventually and maybe some classmates would take her for her birthday. Just wtf.

So... it's unprofessional as both a psychologist and a teacher.  But it was not an actual requirement of class.  

Dd and I discussed how that wasn't ethical.  If the woman actually studied this in grad school, she should know that encouraging exploitation and degradation as some kind of "fun" experiment is not okay.  She has no way of knowing what such actions could lead to for those students, but as a family and marriage therapist profession, ( I was WHAT?! When I saw that.), she should know it is rarely beneficial to the health of any of the people involved or in relationships with those involved.

We also discussed how if this continues or gets worse, the various ways to deal with that. 

Just ugh.  Proof that a degree, even a masters, doesn't make a person smart or ethical. *smh*

 

Wow, she is not a good teacher. 

I'm a bit speechless at the 'entertaining study' bit. Researchers don't use research participants for a bit of fun. How would that even be an ethical study ? Did she mean 'go to strip club and observe human behaviour ?' Of what possible benefit or relevance is that to Psych 101 ? You could just as well go to the shopping mall to observe human behavior. 

Is she an actual psychologist ? Is she from the Dark Ages ? 

 I am glad this wasn't an actual assignment, but I hope she behaves more like a professional from here on in.

 

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I'd still be going to her department chair or the dean about this.  Everything you described is just...weird, creepy, icky, not ok.  

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5 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

I'd still be going to her department chair or the dean about this.  Everything you described is just...weird, creepy, icky, not ok.  

I’m not the student and the student doesn’t want to do that at this time. My job is to counsel her through such things in life, not do it for her, unless that’s what she wants, which she doesn’t  at this time.

But I whole heartedly agree with you. 

I think this psychologist isn’t fit to teach or be a marriage and family therapist. Good grief. The only way it even makes sense is if she has messed up hopes of raking in the $ when the students need therapy later? *confused*

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