Chronic cankor sores (again/still)

[busymama7]

My 8 year old daughter has suffered from chronic cankor sores for 3ish years. Things that have been tried or ruled out:

Gluten (2 month trial, zero change)

Celiac (blood test after back on gluten just to make sure sure)

Immune system issues (blood work)

Acid reflux (currently on Omeprazole. It seemed to work as she had a 2 month reprieve of sores but they are back now with a vengeance and she is still taking it)

SLS free toothpaste (she's been using the right toothpaste for at least a  year)

One doctor has suggested herpes but no real treatment options aside from building immune system. We tried vitamin C and D and small amounts of colloidal silver to rinse mouth with. This was the theory I was most in line with as I had been saying for years that it acted like a virus (would come every 6-8 weeks and she would have a low grade fever with it the first couple years) but the last year+ she has just had them all the time.  

I know I've posted on here before. I can't remember what else was suggested. It's probable I've tried more I'm not listing as Im just overwhelmed.  I'm sick about this and I don't know what to do. We've been to 4 doctors and 3 dentists. The most recent dentist is the one who suggested acid reflux and ped was willing to give it a try. She had not been free of sores for 12 or more months when we started the Omeprazole and so when she went so long without any, I was so excited that we had finally found something.  But now she has several, probably 6 in various stages, including on her gums, under tongue etc. They had been so bad for so long that she looked pale and sickly. Over the past two months she gained 5 lbs and grew 1/2". It was so clear that she needed more nutrition. Now we are right back to her in too much pain to eat. Yes we do smoothies and pack as much into them as we can but it wasn't enough and it was clear she was malnutritioned. She looked so good and now we are back again. 

Help? Anything? I am so overwhelmed. This has consumed us for years.  

Edited January 25, 2019 by busymama7
Add more info

[prairiewindmomma]

Things I would consider:

*cutting out citrus and other highly acidic foods as a food sensitivity trial

*getting the special painkiller mouth wash so she has better nutrition in the meantime

*running a blood panel to check her folate, iron, and b12 and other basic nutrition panels for deficiencies

 

[eagleynne]

I second the call to limit acidic foods, my grandmother had problems with canker sores for years until she realized that if she didn't eat acidic foods they got better. Also, and YMMV, but when I was younger I would get them occasionally, and I found that putting some peroxide on a cotton swab and thoroughly rubbing the sore with it helped to clear them up. Might be worth a try.

[Momto6inIN]

I used to get cold sores (big clumps of about 5 or so all in one spot and they would get infected) every single month with my cycle for a couple years. A pharmacist told me to take L Lysine daily and it really helped a lot! I still get cold sores occassionally but not several at a time and only a couple times a year now, so now instead of taking it daily I only take it when I feel one coming on. I take 500 mg but not sure how much would be right for an 8 year old.

[tori@thehomefront]

I have 1 kid that gets these frequently, and the others get them occasionally. When they first notice one, we have them swish-and-spit with a mix of equal parts apple cider vinegar, honey, and water. It always reduces the severity and duration. 

[geodob]

Has your daughter been tested for the Helicobacter Pylori bacteria?
This bacteria causes Peptic Ulcers. Though it been shown to also cause Canker Sores.
Which can be successfully treated with anti-biotics.

 

[Teaching3bears]

I have these but they used to be much worse. What might work:
Use probiotics
Eat plain, sugar-free yogurt
Cut out all citrus, tomatoes
Cut out ALL sugar and sweeteners

[wintermom]

Oh, poor girl! That must be so painful. I can understand why she doesn't want to eat. Any mouth pain just seems to be magnified. I really hope you can find some relief for her. I can understand the struggle of building up her immune system when she can't eat comfortably. 

I'd definitely try reduced acidic foods and no sugar, if you haven't already.  

You say that immune issues have been ruled out with blood work, but have you actually seen a specialist in this area? Perhaps a pediatric immune specialist may have some additional suggestions.

All the best!

[fairfarmhand]

My dh does this. Cut out acidic food. He can tell a huge difference if he consumes lots of orange juice and sodas. And also it helps to eat a really good brand of yogurt  . There’s a rinse called ulcer ease that should help with the pain. You have to ask for it at the pharmacy but no prescription is needed.

[skimomma]

This happens to me then I have a lot of sugar.  I don't have a sweet tooth so I am not partial to sweet foods but even a single hard candy or a cough drop can do it.  Soda, beer, and juice do it too.

[EKS]

I am so sorry that your daughter is dealing with this.  It sounds awful.

I get canker sores more in the summer, and I've always thought it had to do with eating more fruit.  Also, once my husband suddenly started getting really huge ones.  We realized that it coincided with him eating a ton of canned pineapple.  When he stopped, they went away and never came back.

 

Edited January 25, 2019 by EKS

[busymama7]

I have considered the fruit connection but that doesn't seem to be the case with this latest break out.  It's winter and she didn't have more than a few apples leading up to the start. We don't have any dried fruit.  She doesn't like oranges but does like salsa and ketchup so possibly that it is. However, she has those all the time especially during her two months when she was free of them.  We don't drink soda or tea. She had a couple cups if soda around new years but that's it.   It could be candy although she made it through December without any and other than Halloween that's when we have the most.  She doesn't really eat a ton of sugar but more than she should I'm sure since it's in everything.   She does get candy treats at church and at piano lessons and I'm not sure exactly how to cut those out without traumatizing her. She's extremely sensitive to having to not eat things after the GF trial. It upsets her a lot. 

I have a friend who was guiding me through the GF trial so I think we did ok that way. And she sure ate plenty of it during the two months where she was free of them. If it is a food, it feels impossible to track down.   I think the first thing we will try is fresh fruit and fruity candy but I just don't know how long it will take to prove anything. 

[busymama7]

10 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Things I would consider:

*cutting out citrus and other highly acidic foods as a food sensitivity trial

*getting the special painkiller mouth wash so she has better nutrition in the meantime

*running a blood panel to check her folate, iron, and b12 and other basic nutrition panels for deficiencies

 

Besides citrus and tomatoes, what else do you suggest?  I will check her lab results and see if any of those were run and if not our current ped seems quite willing to try anything.  I'm going to call today and see if they will prescribe the mouthwash. 

[gardenmom5]

what's her nutritional status?   lab values of various vitamins and minerals compared to what is optimal?  not just dependent upon looking at her diet.  seems I've heard there is a link, but I can't remember to what.

[gardenmom5]

another think you can try . . the western diet tends to be pretty acidic. (high carbs, and sugar will increase acidity levels in the body)  1/2 tsp of baking soda in warm water before bed.  (away from food so her digestion isn't affected.)

[busymama7]

Oh I can not get her to apply anything that will sting even if she knows it will make it go away faster. She simply won't do it and is very stubborn. I mean I suppose we could totally force it but she is also on the anxious/sensitive side of things and I just don't think that is best. 

[busymama7]

12 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

what's her nutritional status?   lab values of various vitamins and minerals compared to what is optimal?  not just dependent upon looking at her diet.  seems I've heard there is a link, but I can't remember to what.

I think this is a next step. Thanks 

[solascriptura]

I am so sorry for you and your daughter!  That sounds terrible.   

[busymama7]

13 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

I once read somewhere this being caused by lysine deficiencies. Maybe it's worth a shot. You can get it where the vitamins are.

We have used lysine as she has a sister who gets cold sores and we use it for her. We can try again though and maybe for a longer time period. It became so hard to know if anything made any difference as she just started having them all the time despite anything we were doing. 

She woke up in so much pain this am that she wouldn't even talk or open her mouth. I got stern and made her flush with salt water. 

I'm going to try both ped and dentist for the mouthwash and see who will do it. Anyone know what it is called?

[busymama7]

4 hours ago, geodob said:

Has your daughter been tested for the Helicobacter Pylori bacteria?
This bacteria causes Peptic Ulcers. Though it been shown to also cause Canker Sores.
Which can be successfully treated with anti-biotics.

 

This a new idea! I will bring it up to ped. Thanks 

[busymama7]

4 hours ago, wintermom said:

Oh, poor girl! That must be so painful. I can understand why she doesn't want to eat. Any mouth pain just seems to be magnified. I really hope you can find some relief for her. I can understand the struggle of building up her immune system when she can't eat comfortably. 

I'd definitely try reduced acidic foods and no sugar, if you haven't already.  

You say that immune issues have been ruled out with blood work, but have you actually seen a specialist in this area? Perhaps a pediatric immune specialist may have some additional suggestions.

All the best!

No specialist.  We started with a new ped in October in desperation and he's the one who ran the celiac panel and immunoglobins. I can ask him about a specialist. 

[Pen]

In addition to other vitamins and minerals I already saw mentioned check zinc and B vitamins.  And if she also gets white spots on nails, low zinc is likely IME. 

Some problems with minerals may not show up well as blood test however.

Also, you want her nutrient levels to be optimum, not merely enough to not have severe  deficiency conditions like scurvy, ricketts, pelagra, beriberi...

 I had lots of canker sore trouble and found that elixir of Benadryl dabbed direct on the sores helped a lot with pain and to some degree with healing.  

 

It has been noted in several studies that canker sores are either caused or triggered further when there is a deficiency of folic acid, zinc, or iron in the human body. Deficiencies of calcium can also cause canker sores, but more than causing them, calcium deficiency can worsen the situation.Apr 8, 2013

The Top 5 Causes of Canker Sores - DentistryIQ

[Catwoman]

11 minutes ago, busymama7 said:

We have used lysine as she has a sister who gets cold sores and we use it for her. We can try again though and maybe for a longer time period. It became so hard to know if anything made any difference as she just started having them all the time despite anything we were doing. 

She woke up in so much pain this am that she wouldn't even talk or open her mouth. I got stern and made her flush with salt water. 

I'm going to try both ped and dentist for the mouthwash and see who will do it. Anyone know what it is called?

 

It works best if you catch the sores early, but try opening up a lysine capsule and dissolving the contents in a tiny bit of warm water (like in a little 20ml medicine cup or a tablespoon) and having your dd swish it around her mouth for as long as she can. The taste isn’t terrible and it seems to work better for me than swishing with plain yogurt. Don’t use cold water because the lysine won’t dissolve well and it will remain gritty. It’s kind of a pain to get it to dissolve, but it will if you keep at it for at least 10 seconds or so.

I have never heard of anyone besides me doing this, but I figured it was worth a try and it really seems to work. The sores don’t get as painful and they heal much more quickly than if I only take the lysine orally.

 

[Pen]

 

Quote

She woke up in so much pain this am that she wouldn't even talk or open her mouth. I got stern and made her flush with salt water. 

I'm going to try both ped and dentist for the mouthwash and see who will do it. Anyone know what it is called?

 

No.  But do also ask about elixir of Benadryl.  I recall it being a godsend when in that sort of state myself as a kid.  

Maybe it is even available over counter now.

For my ds the main help for canker sores has been zinc.  But so many things can cause them the solution can differ for each person.  Once having them though the pain is likely to affect nutrition status even more in a downward spiral.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Pen

[busymama7]

3 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

My dh does this. Cut out acidic food. He can tell a huge difference if he consumes lots of orange juice and sodas. And also it helps to eat a really good brand of yogurt  . There’s a rinse called ulcer ease that should help with the pain. You have to ask for it at the pharmacy but no prescription is needed.

Thank you. Ped won't prescribe without seeing her and they can't get her in until Monday. Dentist isn't open today. 😩. She's leaving town in a few hours to go to Grandma's so I'm going to call and see if anyone has this 

[Kanin]

Can she try to go toothpaste-free for a week or so, and just use baking soda? I get canker sores when I use certain toothpastes.

A B12 supplement is another idea. Low B12 causes all kinds of crazy things! I get supplements that dissolve in my mouth, and they taste like cherry candy 🙂 

This article says that kids tend to get cankers more when they have low B12 and folate. I have no idea if this is a reputable source, but it might be something to try: https://www.nicklauschildrens.org/health-information-library/symptoms/mouth-sores

[Meriwether]

When I get canker sores, I take sublingual B12 and use a peroxide/baking soda mix to clean the area.

[prairiewindmomma]

There are various magic mouthwash recipes.

One is 1 part viscous lidocaine (painkiller), 1 part maalox (antacid), and 1 part liquid Benadryl (antihistamine).  Other formulations include anti fungal, antibiotic,  or steroid components. I'm kind of anti- those unless indicated.

I think geodob is spot on about testing for H. Pylorii. I had assumed that had happened already if they had looked at celiac and autoimmune components. 

[busymama7]

4 hours ago, Mainer said:

Can she try to go toothpaste-free for a week or so, and just use baking soda? I get canker sores when I use certain toothpastes.

A B12 supplement is another idea. Low B12 causes all kinds of crazy things! I get supplements that dissolve in my mouth, and they taste like cherry candy 🙂 

This article says that kids tend to get cankers more when they have low B12 and folate. I have no idea if this is a reputable source, but it might be something to try: https://www.nicklauschildrens.org/health-information-library/symptoms/mouth-sores

This is interesting as I know that we have the MTHFR Gene mutation which deals with folate although I don't totally understand all of it. 

[busymama7]

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

There are various magic mouthwash recipes.

One is 1 part viscous lidocaine (painkiller), 1 part maalox (antacid), and 1 part liquid Benadryl (antihistamine).  Other formulations include anti fungal, antibiotic,  or steroid components. I'm kind of anti- those unless indicated.

I think geodob is spot on about testing for H. Pylorii. I had assumed that had happened already if they had looked at celiac and autoimmune components. 

This is very probable as I dealt with probable h pylori casued morning sickness. How it tested for? The ped seems likely to do anything I ask for as long as I go in. I'm frustrated they wouldn't do anything about the mouthwash today. We've called or visited close to a dozen pharmacies and can't find the ulcer ease. But we will order it. 

[Pen]

Benadryl liquid can give topical relief :

http://Children’s Benadryl Allergy Liquid with Diphenhydramine HCl in Kid-Friendly Cherry Flavor, 4 fl. oz https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000GCL6YQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_SP8sCb0KN8WGR

[Ausmumof3]

On 1/25/2019 at 3:40 PM, busymama7 said:

My 8 year old daughter has suffered from chronic cankor sores for 3ish years. Things that have been tried or ruled out:

Gluten (2 month trial, zero change)

Celiac (blood test after back on gluten just to make sure sure)

Immune system issues (blood work)

Acid reflux (currently on Omeprazole. It seemed to work as she had a 2 month reprieve of sores but they are back now with a vengeance and she is still taking it)

SLS free toothpaste (she's been using the right toothpaste for at least a  year)

One doctor has suggested herpes but no real treatment options aside from building immune system. We tried vitamin C and D and small amounts of colloidal silver to rinse mouth with. This was the theory I was most in line with as I had been saying for years that it acted like a virus (would come every 6-8 weeks and she would have a low grade fever with it the first couple years) but the last year+ she has just had them all the time.  

I know I've posted on here before. I can't remember what else was suggested. It's probable I've tried more I'm not listing as Im just overwhelmed.  I'm sick about this and I don't know what to do. We've been to 4 doctors and 3 dentists. The most recent dentist is the one who suggested acid reflux and ped was willing to give it a try. She had not been free of sores for 12 or more months when we started the Omeprazole and so when she went so long without any, I was so excited that we had finally found something.  But now she has several, probably 6 in various stages, including on her gums, under tongue etc. They had been so bad for so long that she looked pale and sickly. Over the past two months she gained 5 lbs and grew 1/2". It was so clear that she needed more nutrition. Now we are right back to her in too much pain to eat. Yes we do smoothies and pack as much into them as we can but it wasn't enough and it was clear she was malnutritioned. She looked so good and now we are back again. 

Help? Anything? I am so overwhelmed. This has consumed us for years.  

Have you tried vitamin b?  Vitamin b deficiency gives me them in the corners of my lips.

[Ausmumof3]

Also this might just be a my family thing but we used to put vegemite on them.  Stings like crazy then seems to help them heal.  Not sure if it’s the salt or added vitamins or what.

[geodob]

Their are various tests for H.Pylori.  Which include/: Blood, Stool, Breath and Saliva Tests.
Though for Oral infection, Breath and Saliva Tests would be best.
You wrote that you will be seeing a dentist. Where Plaque is major breeding ground for H.Pylori, and a cause for re-infection.  So that it would be helpful to have any Plaque removed.

 

[Terabith]

When I had hand foot and mouth, the magic mouthwash was miraculous.  Milk based things were good, too.  Does she have a fever or other systemic symptoms?

[PrincessMommy]

I've had canker sores all my life.. Usually I'd get 5-7 in my mouth at one time as a kid.   As a grew older they started going down my throat and all the way down my intestinal track.   Food is definitely a trigger, just wish I hadn't figured that out until I was almost 40 and on Atkins.   It was when I was eating Atkins that I realized I didn't have anymore canker sores.  I think everyone's trigger food is different, but there are definitely culprits.  My oldest son also has had it since he was a preschooler and, in true scientist fashion, he started tracking his food intake.  He figured out what his triggers were this way.  He also figured out that if he brushed his teeth as soon as he'd eaten a trigger food that it would lessen the severity or not happen at all.

Mine seems to be all over the place.  I can have 78% chocolate, but anything less will give me sores.  If I eat the really cheap stuff (like semi sweet chips ) I can feel the tingling in my mouth right away.  Cantelope and pineapple are also triggers for me, but not oranges or watermelon- go figure.  I can eat wheat in moderation, but not everyday or every meal.   I used to think it was white sugar & white flour, but now I don't know what to think.  If I have these in small doses I don't seem to suffer. I use stevia for everyday sweetening such as my tea.  For me, it seems that eating fat helps.   So, for instance, things like creme brulee or cheesecake don't seem to trigger, but cake does.   Of course, I don't eat any of those things everyday, but I know that tingling feeling in my mouth when I eat something that is for sure a trigger.  

Definitely get the mouth numbing stuff... especially if it's affecting her eating and sleep.  Also, taking pain killers will help a little bit on the worst days.  Doesn't make it go away though so don't over use them.   Have her brush her teeth often - esp if she eats something you suspect is a trigger.

Good luck.  Tell her I'm so sorry she's got this.  When I was a kid my parents just threw up their hands in exasperation.  Today we know so much more about nutrition and food allergies.  You guys will figure this out in time and much sooner than I did.  The hardest part is that probably a trigger food is something she'll enjoy - like chocolate chip cookies (one of mine).   But hopefully she'll have an arsenal of ideas that will help lesson the severity so she can eat a trigger food on rare occasions. 

[lulalu]

I didn't read everything. So sorry if I am mentioning something already said. 

I had this growing up, nothing seemed to work. Until I started taking zinc daily. I take 40mg a day. 

And I found I am very sensitive to fluoride. I cannot have fluoride on my teeth or gums at all. I drink filtered water, make my toothpaste and mouthwash, make sure my floss is free from fluoride. I know fluoride is found in foods and other things naturally, but I have found where it is added to things gives me lots of sores. 

 

[Tap]

I get them specifically from tomatoes. I can have other acidic foods.Sometimes, I can have tomatoes for a day or two but then suddenly break out. It was hard to find the correlation due to this, but once I figured out the offending food, it was very, very easy to track. I can also have more roma tomatoes that other types before I break out.  I know this because I make homemade salsa with romas and can eat a bit without things getting too crazy in my mouth, but even a little ketchup will cause issues almost immediately. For me, if I am really good at avoiding all nightshades, I can eat a serving or two of tomato and not break out. It seems like it needs to build up in my system to a certain level before it causes trouble. Just wanted to mention this because it changes the way you think about the results of a food journal.

I also know someone who gets canker sores from ibuprofen. So don't forget to look at non-food items that she is ingesting.

Personally, I would likely go to an allergist and get an allergy panel done. Then I would go on a selective food diet and add things from there. The allergist working with what you inevitably already know due to research on cancer sores, may lead you to the answer.

Good luck!  They are horrible little things to deal with . Much love to you daughter going through this! She has my sympathies.

[Kanin]

15 hours ago, busymama7 said:

This is interesting as I know that we have the MTHFR Gene mutation which deals with folate although I don't totally understand all of it. 

Interesting! I don't understand much about that, either. Could you find out if your type of mutation benefits from added folate? I know there's something about using real folate vs. folic acid...?

Maybe a good first step would be to supplement some of the things people have suggested (folate, zinc, b12, b vitamins, etc). Not sure if a kids multi is the way to go with that, or if you should do individual supplements.

I also think the allergist is a great suggestion. 

 

[Pen]

 

Quote

Acid reflux (currently on Omeprazole. It seemed to work as she had a 2 month reprieve of sores but they are back now with a vengeance and she is still taking it)

 

 

I missed this when I first read it.

Her increased sores could be an Omeprazole side effect.

See below.  I can’t post link , but you can google it.  

 I manage acid reflux by avoiding things that cause it, plus use of slippery elm lozenges which are also soothing for mouth sores.  

She is probably suffering from reflux and cankers due to nutrition problems and sensitivity.  If you locate underlying issues and solve them both problems may be solved.  

Edited January 26, 2019 by Pen

[Pen]

 

Quote

Acid reflux (currently on Omeprazole. It seemed to work as she had a 2 month reprieve of sores but they are back now with a vengeance and she is still taking it)

 

 

I missed this when I first read it.

Her increased sores could be an Omeprazole side effect.

 

Mayoclinic.org lists continuing mouth sores and ulcers as

a “call your doctor immediately “

side effect to Omeprazole.  

[KungFuPanda]

My dh’s family weirdly needs more vitamin C than average or they get mouth sores. Mil and Dh combat this by adding a squirt of lemon or lime juice to most drinks. Dd eats tons of fruit and takes a multivitamin. DS doesn’t seem to have this deficiency. We call BIL’s kids Fruit Bats because you can’t buy enough fruit to keep them happy.  In their case limiting citrus would make things much worse. 

There are lots of green vegetables and non-acidic fruits that contain more C than lemons and oranges if you want to try adding the vitamin without the acid.  My family  just craves citrus. Dd usually eats 90% of the clementines that come into the house. Right now Dh is fermenting some lemon-ginger-yeast concoction. 

It's worth trying and it’s an experiment that can’t hurt. 

[Pen]

3 hours ago, Mainer said:

Interesting! I don't understand much about that, either. Could you find out if your type of mutation benefits from added folate? I know there's something about using real folate vs. folic acid...?

 

Yes.  The form of folate will matter. Methylfolate for example versus folic acid.  

3 hours ago, Mainer said:

 

Maybe a good first step would be to supplement some of the things people have suggested (folate, zinc, b12, b vitamins, etc). Not sure if a kids multi is the way to go with that, or if you should do individual supplements.

 

I’d be doing this myself.  

Especially for ones where it is hard to get too much.  Like a b12 sublingual.  

I usually do my own research on vitamins, minerals, forms, dosages, side effects and experiment carefully.

 I often experiment one at a time so as not to have side effect confusion.  But for helping problems often it is a complicated need for several things together synergistically. So until putting together the right group of things and eliminating things that may contribute to the problem improvements may not be seen.  

absorption of some minerals and vitamins is affected by presence of others so taking separately and together can give different results even if mg amount and form is otherwise the same.  

also some may be needed in higher amounts than a multi gives, though esp for a child not eating well due to mouth pain, I’d also be inclined toward a good multi-vitamin.

Id personally go with one Raw Zinc with food (to avoid nausea IME I don’t take zinc away from food)  which is 15mg. (Full adult dose is 2 caps for 30 mg)   Away from calcium as they can inhibit absorption.  Or a Country Life zinc tab broken up into powder (lots of Zinc tastes terrible, but IME the Country Life one’s are tolerable—but tab is 50mg, which for me is usually too much unless I’m very depleted). and just a tiny bit at a time, possibly even trying a bit right on a canker to see if it might help with direct application.  

(Similar to someone else’s idea as for trying Lysine).  

Other minerals at another time.  

Maybe then a Smarty Pants Multi, and maybe a MTHFR friendly B complex (I use Country Life)  

 

I’d probably separately take some Vitamin C and B5 too, for role in wound healing.  

But this is based on what I know my own body / family tends to need

 

and I’d probably swab Benadryl elixir topically on the sores to get enough pain relief to be able to eat well.  

3 hours ago, Mainer said:

 

I also think the allergist is a great suggestion. 

 

 

 

 

I think an allergist, environmental health, or naturopathic doc might help.

[busymama7]

3 hours ago, Pen said:

 

 

I missed this when I first read it.

Her increased sores could be an Omeprazole side effect.

 

Mayoclinic.org lists continuing mouth sores and ulcers as

a “call your doctor immediately “

side effect to Omeprazole.  

Interesting and annoying since the only reason she is on it is to see if acid reflux was causing her sores 😒

[busymama7]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

Yes.  The form of folate will matter. Methylfolate for example versus folic acid.  

 

I’d be doing this myself.  

Especially for ones where it is hard to get too much.  Like a b12 sublingual.  

I usually do my own research on vitamins, minerals, forms, dosages, side effects and experiment carefully.

 I often experiment one at a time so as not to have side effect confusion.  But for helping problems often it is a complicated need for several things together synergistically. So until putting together the right group of things and eliminating things that may contribute to the problem improvements may not be seen.  

absorption of some minerals and vitamins is affected by presence of others so taking separately and together can give different results even if mg amount and form is otherwise the same.  

also some may be needed in higher amounts than a multi gives, though esp for a child not eating well due to mouth pain, I’d also be inclined toward a good multi-vitamin.

Id personally go with one Raw Zinc with food (to avoid nausea IME I don’t take zinc away from food)  which is 15mg. (Full adult dose is 2 caps for 30 mg)   Away from calcium as they can inhibit absorption.  Or a Country Life zinc tab broken up into powder (lots of Zinc tastes terrible, but IME the Country Life one’s are tolerable—but tab is 50mg, which for me is usually too much unless I’m very depleted). and just a tiny bit at a time, possibly even trying a bit right on a canker to see if it might help with direct application.  

(Similar to someone else’s idea as for trying Lysine).  

Other minerals at another time.  

Maybe then a Smarty Pants Multi, and maybe a MTHFR friendly B complex (I use Country Life)  

 

I’d probably separately take some Vitamin C and B5 too, for role in wound healing.  

But this is based on what I know my own body / family tends to need

 

and I’d probably swab Benadryl elixir topically on the sores to get enough pain relief to be able to eat well.  

 

 

 

I think an allergist, environmental health, or naturopathic doc might help.

Thanks for the info. She was on smarty pants vitamins for a time and at first we thought they were helping. We let the lapse when trying other things while she was really bad. We did see a homeopathic MD who was the one who said it was herpes.  Since the acid reflux avenue is a dud we will go back to trying to build up her body to see if that can help. 

[Pen]

10 minutes ago, busymama7 said:

Thanks for the info. She was on smarty pants vitamins for a time and at first we thought they were helping. We let the lapse when trying other things while she was really bad. We did see a homeopathic MD who was the one who said it was herpes.  Since the acid reflux avenue is a dud we will go back to trying to build up her body to see if that can help. 

 

If  it is in fact herpes then lysine (or lysine plus Vit C) could help .  

Was she tested such that you know it IS herpes or is that a guess? 

Benadryl elixir topically for me has been magical to bring symptom relief.  I “discovered” it myself as a kid, but it is now recognized.   It is likely to help symptoms relief no matter the cause, because it gives a temporary local anaesthesia.  If allergy underlies the problem it may give even more benefit.  

I believe I have read that zinc supplementation helps 50% of people with canker sores, so playing the odds as it were, that’s one that to me would be worth trying.  

 But I personally would not go higher than 30mg per day as supplemental (for a child) without knowing more were needed based on lab tests or similar.  (I go up to 60 as an adult if I have symptoms that I recognize as low zinc or low zinc relative to copper.)   The “Raw Zinc” tm zinc is food based, I believe, so less well absorbed probably/perhaps, but also I think less likely to cause troubles of taking too much.  Oysters have a lot of zinc, and I don’t think people can overdose from food.  However there are also zinc copper balance issues, where oysters though naturally high in zinc may also be high copper, thus not help if more zinc relative to copper is needed.   She also may have absorption problems in general.  Especially possible if stomach acid has been being manipulated with pharmaceuticals like o

 

Keep in mind though that if your dd has canker sores because of low zinc, low C, and low B, for example, if you only supplement one, she may not get relief, so you may conclude it isn’t ____ that’s the problem erroneously, if it is ____ and also ____  and _____.  

Sort of like if a vehicle is out of gas and also has    dead battery—you have to solve *both*  things.  

I mentioned Smarty Pants not because I think they will help the sores, but because I expect she is probably generally deficient due to a bad spiral of pain to not eating...   and it is a vitamin that I know my dc will take.  Another easy one has been New Chapter minitabs.  

 

If she doesn’t have to be on Omeprazole I would get off that ASAP.  It has all sorts of potential problems as I recall from researching it.  

[geodob]

With Omeprazole, it is used to treat Ulcers in the digestive system. Where its only action, is to inhibit the production of stomach acid. Which irritates the Ulcers.
Here's a link to the Rare Side Effects of Omeprazole:
https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/omeprazole-oral-route/side-effects/drg-20066836
 

 

[thornberryacademy]

I didn't read all of the responses but wanted to ask, does she have any digestive issues as well? My daughter has Crohn's Disease and one of her extraintestinal symptoms before she was diagnosed was canker sores. There is a mouth wash that a lot of parents use for their IBD kiddos who get these, it's called Magic Mouthwash (prescribed by a doctor, filled at the Pharmacy) or they use a mixture of Benadryl-Maalox-lidocaine. 

[KidsHappen]

3 hours ago, thornberryacademy said:

I didn't read all of the responses but wanted to ask, does she have any digestive issues as well? My daughter has Crohn's Disease and one of her extraintestinal symptoms before she was diagnosed was canker sores. There is a mouth wash that a lot of parents use for their IBD kiddos who get these, it's called Magic Mouthwash (prescribed by a doctor, filled at the Pharmacy) or they use a mixture of Benadryl-Maalox-lidocaine. 

Yes, cold sores are a common symptom of Crohn's Disease. I am going through the process of getting checked for this right now.

[thornberryacademy]

18 minutes ago, KidsHappen said:

Yes, cold sores are a common symptom of Crohn's Disease. I am going through the process of getting checked for this right now.

I'm sorry to hear that and I hope that you get answers quickly and a treatment plan in place if you are diagnosed.  My husband was also diagnosed this past summer so I know it can sometimes be a long,  trying process.