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My son wants to go to AF Academy but I doubt he can get in


Janeway
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My son is in Jr AF ROTC in school. He really wants to go to the AF Academy. 

 

I think this has been resolved..thanks so much everyone! I just told him what is required and showed him the information and he made his decision. (oh, and this post was not about oldest son)

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2 hours ago, Janeway said:

They already told us specifically that that is not a disqualifier.

"They" --whoever that is-- may not be well informed. Unfortunately it is not a JROTC instructor or a recruiter who makes medical qualification decisions.

From the DODMERB disqualification list, p. 19 https://dodmerb.tricare.osd.mil/DisqualificationCodes.aspx

(see below, sorry for funky formatting)

Some disqualifications may be eligible for a waiver, especially if the candidate is stellar in every other way. I have not personally heard of anyone getting a waiver for autism spectrum disorder.

 

D231.91

History of pervasive developmental disorders

History of pervasive developmental disorders including Asperger Syndrome, autistic spectrum disorders, and pervasive developmental disorder-not otherwise specified"

 

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Don't know how far into high school your student is, but just an FYI: applying to any of the Service Academies is a lengthy and difficult process that needs to be started EARLY in high school -- as I recall from previous threads, no later than the start of 11th grade, due to having to line up nominations and recommendations.

Here are the AF Academy steps to eligibility and applying.

Here are some past threads with advice/experiences of WTMers who have had students apply to the various Service Academies and/or ROTC:
Service Academies and ROTC - class of 2020
Considering high school for DS - Air Force Academy
Air Force Academy summer seminar
Air Force ROTC: anyone here have a child apply for this? Any tips?
Air Force ROTC: anyone have kids doing this??
Naval ROTC programs with computer science majors
NROTC advice [Navy ROTC]
Computer Science for US Military commissioned officers

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Unlikely that he would be admitted. For several reasons: His medical issues. Math issues. His grades. His wanting to do it his way. They have requirements that *must* be met.  If this chart on CollegeData is correct, although it is highly selective, they are not looking for intellectual geniuses.  ACT average 30.

https://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=700

They are looking for other qualities. Teamwork, sports, physical conditioning, leadership, etc.  The chart shows 2 years of a Foreign Lanugage. He is interested in French and I suspect that would be OK with them, but not as good as Spanish, or, preferably, Russian, Chinese, Korean, Arabic or another language, that is critical to U.S. National Security.

Not having Chemistry on his transcript would, IMO, be a big Red Flag, with the Academy and most serious universities.  If Chemistry is a requirement, and he does not have Chemistry, his application will die at that point, when they see that missing requirement.

He, not the OP, needs to study the requirements and see if he can meet those. Those are minimum requirements. Good luck to him!

Many, but not all, of the students in AFA are Engineering Majors. Some of them are Chemistry Majors.  And there are other Majors.  Math is a big part of most of them...   Several years ago, a young woman in a Chemistry class accidentally discovered something that is  of huge importance to those who might get shot at. They were able to reproduce it.  Very cool...

 

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2 minutes ago, Lanny said:

I seem to remember a few years ago, when I looked at the AFA web site, that the majority of the Freshmen there had been in High School Sports.  Probably varsity level. If he is on a Sports team, that is a plus for him.  

Yes, according to the Academy website 80% of cadets have a varsity letter.

https://www.academyadmissions.com/admissions/advice-to-applicants/all-applicants/leadership-and-character-preparation/

Janeway, if this were my child I would be very realistic with him that his chances of acceptance to the Academy are very, very, very low. He has a disqualifying medical condition that we don't know if he could get a waiver for (you could contact DODMERB and the USAFA directly and ask whether that is a possibility) and realistically the Academy admissions folks are not likely to push for a waiver unless the candidate is really stellar (with the exception of commonly waived conditions; ASD is not one of those).

All of this is unfortunate and I understand, much of it applies to some of my own kids who have shown interest in USAFA because they have relatives who graduated from there. When they were all making plans to attend the USAFA themselves after visiting for graduation week I took the time to research and even emailed back and forth with one of the in charge folks at DODMERB who was very nice but realistic.

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4 hours ago, Lanny said:

Unlikely that he would be admitted. For several reasons: His medical issues. Math issues. His grades. His wanting to do it his way. They have requirements that *must* be met.  If this chart on CollegeData is correct, although it is highly selective, they are not looking for intellectual geniuses.  ACT average 30.

https://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=700

They are looking for other qualities. Teamwork, sports, physical conditioning, leadership, etc.  The chart shows 2 years of a Foreign Lanugage. He is interested in French and I suspect that would be OK with them, but not as good as Spanish, or, preferably, Russian, Chinese, Korean, Arabic or another language, that is critical to U.S. National Security.

Not having Chemistry on his transcript would, IMO, be a big Red Flag, with the Academy and most serious universities.  If Chemistry is a requirement, and he does not have Chemistry, his application will die at that point, when they see that missing requirement.

He, not the OP, needs to study the requirements and see if he can meet those. Those are minimum requirements. Good luck to him!

Many, but not all, of the students in AFA are Engineering Majors. Some of them are Chemistry Majors.  And there are other Majors.  Math is a big part of most of them...   Several years ago, a young woman in a Chemistry class accidentally discovered something that is  of huge importance to those who might get shot at. They were able to reproduce it.  Very cool...

 

 

I agree with this. We have a lot of military friends, my son is in the Army National Guard, and we've watched a lot of my kids' friends go through to process with academy applications, ROTC, etc. etc. 

I would put the onus on him to do the research and encourage him to consider back-up plans. Only a few small percentage of people get in, but there are other options if he wants a part-time or full-time military career. He needs to know that the military is a highly structured, demanding career. Even for part-time, you have to be in excellent shape with solid coping and collaborative skills. My son came home from his training with a lot of stories about those who were sent home. It isn't for everyone.

One of my son's friends desperately wanted to go to West Point and had a strong application, but didn't get in. They don't know why. He ended up going to Virginia Tech in the Corps of Cadets, but ended up quitting. He had an injury, and found that the pressure of the military life really wasn't at all for him. He ended up coming home and going to the community college and is in a career he enjoys.

My son struggled in his first month of boot camp when they are isolated and many are sent home, but then he thrived in it and did extremely well. He's back in college now and says that joining was one of the best decisions he ever made. It fits well with his career plans and pays for most of his college expenses. For him, part-time is ideal. 

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5 hours ago, Lanny said:

Unlikely that he would be admitted. For several reasons: His medical issues. Math issues. His grades. His wanting to do it his way. They have requirements that *must* be met.  If this chart on CollegeData is correct, although it is highly selective, they are not looking for intellectual geniuses.  ACT average 30.

https://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=700

They are looking for other qualities. Teamwork, sports, physical conditioning, leadership, etc.  The chart shows 2 years of a Foreign Lanugage. He is interested in French and I suspect that would be OK with them, but not as good as Spanish, or, preferably, Russian, Chinese, Korean, Arabic or another language, that is critical to U.S. National Security.

Not having Chemistry on his transcript would, IMO, be a big Red Flag, with the Academy and most serious universities.  If Chemistry is a requirement, and he does not have Chemistry, his application will die at that point, when they see that missing requirement.

He, not the OP, needs to study the requirements and see if he can meet those. Those are minimum requirements. Good luck to him!

Many, but not all, of the students in AFA are Engineering Majors. Some of them are Chemistry Majors.  And there are other Majors.  Math is a big part of most of them...   Several years ago, a young woman in a Chemistry class accidentally discovered something that is  of huge importance to those who might get shot at. They were able to reproduce it.  Very cool...

 

He does not have medical issues. Also, the son I am referring to is the one that does ballet several hours a week. The 3.1 is his unweighted GPA. He has been taking an AP class as a freshman. The others are all preAP. His school only offers French, Spanish, and German for languages. I told him about the chemistry and he will need to decide.

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2 hours ago, maize said:

Yes, according to the Academy website 80% of cadets have a varsity letter.

https://www.academyadmissions.com/admissions/advice-to-applicants/all-applicants/leadership-and-character-preparation/

Janeway, if this were my child I would be very realistic with him that his chances of acceptance to the Academy are very, very, very low. He has a disqualifying medical condition that we don't know if he could get a waiver for (you could contact DODMERB and the USAFA directly and ask whether that is a possibility) and realistically the Academy admissions folks are not likely to push for a waiver unless the candidate is really stellar (with the exception of commonly waived conditions; ASD is not one of those).

All of this is unfortunate and I understand, much of it applies to some of my own kids who have shown interest in USAFA because they have relatives who graduated from there. When they were all making plans to attend the USAFA themselves after visiting for graduation week I took the time to research and even emailed back and forth with one of the in charge folks at DODMERB who was very nice but realistic.

This particular child does not have a disqualifying condition. I am referencing my child who does ballet. He won't have a varsity letter I don't think, I am unsure what you get those for, but he is not in football or anything. He is in ballet and does that most days of the week for a few hours. He is also on the Jr AF ROTC drill team and they just took first place and he won a ribbon for his uniform for that. He also was selected to lead the drill team he is on even though he is only a freshman. He is the highest ranked freshman in his class. His grades are my only concern. Plus, he will be auditioning for the company with ballet this fall maybe and he is hoping to be on the sabre drill team next year with Jr AF ROTC so his activity schedule is quite high. He is also hoping to have more leadership responsibilities next year. Freshmen don't tend to get leadership positions so it is great he is doing what he is already doing which is squad leader for his drill team.

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My recommendation is to have him talk to his ROTC leader.  

Keep in mind — it’s fine for kids to find motivation for various things, by having a goal that is unlikely.  They still are doing a lot of good things and expanding their horizons.  

He may have a lot of ideas about things he might do, and if they are things that encourage him to do well in school and participate in activities — that is a good thing.

Another option is for you to talk to his ROTC leader.

I wouldn’t be surprised if this is a temporary thing and has just been talked about at ROTC.  That is fine, it is motivating to many kids, and often that is the purpose, to encourage kids about opportunities with the ROTC program they are part of.  But most kids aren’t going to continue in any way past high school, and that is fine, too.  

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Hi Janeway,

I am a mama of two current USAFA cadets – ds is a senior, dd is a sophomore. USAFA is a challenging but AMAZING journey.

I would suggest the following ideas:

- If any communication or correspondence needs to occur with USAFA, DODMERB etc. from this point forward, your ds should handle all that communication, not you. USAFA will be watching to see what prospective candidates handle their own stuff versus who has their parents handle it. This is very important to remember.

- Not everyone who receives an appointment to USAFA has absolutely stellar grades. SAT and ACT scores are important in that you must meet the thresholds. However, both my dc have repeatedly said they know cadets who had qualifying SATs, and GPAs in the low 3's -- because of their other qualifications, which were impressive, they got in. Every year, there are applicants who seem like they “have it all” who do not receive an appointment, and there are likewise applicants who seem not as “strong overall” who do receive appointments. Remember that in making appointment decisions each year, USAFA is balancing a lot of factors. It isn't really useful to try to guess who will receive an appointment and who will not.

- Yes, he absolutely should take both Chemistry and Physics in high school. As part of the core requirements at USAFA, all cadets must take both of challenging classes in these subjects. Even English majors! I am not sure his application would go very far if he doesn't take Chemistry and Physics in high school.

- Sit down with your ds and review ALL the USAFA application info that is readily available online. Make sure he has a realistic picture of how demanding the nomination and application processes are. Much attention needs to be paid to deadlines and details, and for good reason – it is the first part of the screening process to see who has what it takes to succeed at USAFA and who does not. If he does try to go for it, it needs to be his dream and he needs to be the driving force behind it. I would never discourage a student from applying to a service academy unless they were incapable of achieving an unweighted GPA at 3.0 or above, they had an obvious disqualifying medical condition, or their standardized test scores were no where near the required thresholds.

- Don't forget to review the physical requirements of the Candidate Fitness Assessment (CFA), which is also a required component in the application process. I would guess he should be able to achieve success in the CFA if he worked at it, given that he is an athlete in dance. He certainly has time to train.

- Varsity sports are great but not required. However, high levels of physical fitness and formal demonstration of that in some way are really important. Neither of my dc had “varsity sports.” Both of my dc were accomplished martial artists and very competitive in tennis and gymnastics.

- In past years, the application process has focused especially on classes/activities in 10th-12th grades. GPA is looked at for all four years. Your ds has plenty of time to enhance his activities and leadership. One of my dc made the decision to try for USAFA following their sophomore year of high school. It is harder when the decision is made by the student later, but it is not impossible.

- Yes to backup plans as well. This goes for any student applying anywhere.

- Community service and volunteering are wonderful ways to demonstrate a focus beyond one's self and make a significant difference in others lives. (“Service before self”)

- Foreign languages – a great chance to really distinguish oneself. Both of my dc had very difficult languages and had taken several college classes in them via DE/paid tutoring. This is not a necessary requirement but it doesn't hurt. Look into StarTalk summer programs that are federally funded.

- Uniqueness – This is a followup idea regarding the suggestion on foreign languages. One of the things my dc concentrated on was excelling in something that was really unique. For both dc, it turned out to be their foreign languages. During their freshman semesters at USAFA, they discovered that they were each one of less than 5-10 applicants for their class year who had excelled at their languages. Placement tests put them into junior level USAFA classes as a freshman. They both think this was definitely a factor in their appointments. But it doesn't have to be a language. A student could start a business, for example. Cadets do have interesting and varied backgrounds. Many have done a wide range of unique things that differentiated them from the rest of the pack in the application process. Perhaps your ds could offer volunteer dance classes for needy kids in the community on an ongoing basis, or maybe during the summers. Think out of the box ideas that demonstrate: “Integrity first, service before self, excellence in all we do.” Those words are emblazoned on a wall that cadets walk past pretty much every day.

His other activities sound really good, especially since he is in 9th grade~he should continue those. Continuity of focused activities is important. Not as wise to try to do 115 totally unrelated things. :)

If you or your ds have any more questions, please feel free to pm me.

Hope this helps!

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My DS is a junior who has just begun the process of applying for the c/o 2024 at USNA, USAFA, and USMA - and will probably apply to USCGA as well.   One thing that hasn't been mentioned so far, that has been very helpful to us, is to start researching your congressional district's Academy Days.   Because the appointment process requires a nomination from a member of congress for almost all of the SAs, many MOCs host admissions briefings and workshops at least once each year, and they are a wealth of information on the application process.   If your DS submits his email for the USAFA's Future Falcons email list (as well as the equivalent mailing lists at the other academies), he'll receive notifications for online chats, local admissions briefings, and other events, many of which include representatives from several academies.

If you feel that test scores may be a hindrance, I'd consider having him take the SAT or ACT this year so you have a baseline.   Then plan on some targeted prep or tutoring on his weaker areas.   He has plenty of time to work on testing.

If he starts taking ownership of the application and nomination process and really wants to continue to pursue USAFA, let him!   My DH & I have remarked to each other that the process of pursuing a SA, even if he doesn't get an appointment, has been VERY good for him up to this point.   He's stepped up his physical training, taken a more active leadership role on his cross country and track teams, taken a heavy course load with dual enrollment and AP courses, and later this year will be practicing his interview skills before we get to that step in the process.  So far it's all been good.

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OP with regard to Foreign Languges, your DS might look at this URL:

https://exchanges.state.gov/highschool/

My DD applied for one of the programs and she is a Semi-Finalist at this time.

Latin probably won't help him with regard to a Modern Foreign Language.  French might.  Spanish and the other languages I mentioned upthread (Russian, Arabic, Chinese, Korean, etc.) would IMO be a huge plus.  

I know, for one example, the U.S. Army will pay a monthly bonus to enlisted personnel who can pass a yearly qualifying test in certain languages. I believe the bonus ranges from $50 to $1000 per month, but am not sure. Also, I suspect it applies to personnel with certain jobs.

Possibly something for him to consider that would improve his chances?

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Someone upthread mentioned the StarTalk language programs--my dd attended BYU's StarTalk Arabic program last year and loved it, she's planning to go back this summer. Definitely something to look into if he wants to try a more challenging (and higher need) language.

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On 1/23/2019 at 5:29 PM, Janeway said:

Would you just tell your child that he needs chemistry to be considered for the AF academy, but that here are the statistics about the AF Academy so it looks unlikely he could reach the goal of getting in anyway? Or would you skip the second half of that and let him know he needs chemistry if he wants to qualify to apply to the AF Academy and not mention that he will likely not be competitive regardless?

I would tell him that he needs chemistry to be considered *and* I would show him the admissions statistics and have him compare his record to them (and have him calculate exactly how much he could possibly bring up his GPA between now and the end of junior year).  I'd also discuss with him how his autism diagnosis (he has one, right?) might affect his ability to join the military. 

Edited by EKS
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The question I have from those who seem to understand: Is the medical disqualification from military service at all, or just from the academies?
There are other military academy style schools this child could aim for, but might not be worth it if he cannot serve afterwards.

If he can join the military, look at other schools with military components (for example, Texas A&M Corps of Cadets). If he cannot join the Air Force, perhaps look at other aviation related careers?

I do not see the point in tailoring courses to a school the child will not get into.

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I'm pretty sure that any medical disqualifier for an academy goes for the service too. For instance my husband thankfully outgrew his asthma early on and was able to get into USNA. My daughter, who was looking at Coast Guard, just got diagnosed with asthma at 19 and so no Coast Guard now for her.  

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On 1/23/2019 at 3:29 PM, Janeway said:

My son is in Jr AF ROTC in school. He really wants to go to the AF Academy. He has a math learning disability and while he is working very hard, I cannot see him getting the grades.  While he has not taken the SAT or PSAT or ACT yet, his last ITBS and COGAT scores were ITBS 90th percentile overall and COGAT for the 3 areas was 89th, 40th, and 97th with the 40th being quantitative. His current GPA in public school is, unweighted 3.1 and I don't expect it to get better because he really does try hard now. 

 

Here is the problem I am having. In making next years course selections for the public school he is at, the AF Academy specifically requires a modern foreign language and specifically both chemistry and physics. He already has two credits of Latin but plans to take French to fulfill that requirement. He really wants to take preAP physics, not chemistry, and then AP physics and so on. He will end up with more than 4 science credits doing this so not a problem for any school he would be considering except the AF Academy. 

 

Would you just tell your child that he needs chemistry to be considered for the AF academy, but that here are the statistics about the AF Academy so it looks unlikely he could reach the goal of getting in anyway? Or would you skip the second half of that and let him know he needs chemistry if he wants to qualify to apply to the AF Academy and not mention that he will likely not be competitive regardless?

 

I would hesitate to recommend any student get their heart set on attending a school that is on the upper end of selectivity. That said if a highly competitive school lists something as a requirement, that is often the opening argument. 

I have more concerns over not taking chemistry than the question over French. I also noticed you said he has a math learning disability.  That is a flag for me that he not only might not be accepted, but might struggle in the high speed academic & military environment there.

You might want to double check the science requirements for his other colleges.  Some might specify not only science credits but also specific courses to include.  He might also consider the value of having chemistry in high school if he will be required to take it in college; some students do better if college chemistry isn't their first exposure. 

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On 1/23/2019 at 8:29 PM, Janeway said:

My son is in Jr AF ROTC in school. He really wants to go to the AF Academy. He has a math learning disability and while he is working very hard, I cannot see him getting the grades.  While he has not taken the SAT or PSAT or ACT yet, his last ITBS and COGAT scores were ITBS 90th percentile overall and COGAT for the 3 areas was 89th, 40th, and 97th with the 40th being quantitative. His current GPA in public school is, unweighted 3.1 and I don't expect it to get better because he really does try hard now. 

 

Here is the problem I am having. In making next years course selections for the public school he is at, the AF Academy specifically requires a modern foreign language and specifically both chemistry and physics. He already has two credits of Latin but plans to take French to fulfill that requirement. He really wants to take preAP physics, not chemistry, and then AP physics and so on. He will end up with more than 4 science credits doing this so not a problem for any school he would be considering except the AF Academy. 

 

Would you just tell your child that he needs chemistry to be considered for the AF academy, but that here are the statistics about the AF Academy so it looks unlikely he could reach the goal of getting in anyway? Or would you skip the second half of that and let him know he needs chemistry if he wants to qualify to apply to the AF Academy and not mention that he will likely not be competitive regardless?

 

What does he want to do at the AF Academy (major, career choice, etc....???). 
 

I guess I will be the voice of dissent and say, explain the AF requirements to him and let him choose.  I would never want to force a high schooler to take the classes I make him take and then have him say, "Well, I couldn't even try because you wouldn't let me."  He is old enough to start making those choices, and then, the choice/issue is on him.

Not getting into the AF Academy won't be the end of the world and he can then choose his Plan B.  

If HE chooses not to take Chemistry, then that is also his choice.  He will knowingly not even qualify for an application to the AF Academy.  

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6 hours ago, DawnM said:

 

What does he want to do at the AF Academy (major, career choice, etc....???). 
 

I guess I will be the voice of dissent and say, explain the AF requirements to him and let him choose.  I would never want to force a high schooler to take the classes I make him take and then have him say, "Well, I couldn't even try because you wouldn't let me."  He is old enough to start making those choices, and then, the choice/issue is on him.

Not getting into the AF Academy won't be the end of the world and he can then choose his Plan B.  

If HE chooses not to take Chemistry, then that is also his choice.  He will knowingly not even qualify for an application to the AF Academy.  

I think you have typos in your post but I get the gist of what you are saying. I told him what is required to apply and let him decide.

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3 hours ago, Janeway said:

I think you have typos in your post but I get the gist of what you are saying. I told him what is required to apply and let him decide.

 

If you are already doing that, then what is the question? 

And yes, I have some typos, it was early with no coffee, but thanks for making sure to point it out.

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26 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

If you are already doing that, then what is the question? 

And yes, I have some typos, it was early with no coffee, but thanks for making sure to point it out.

The original post was two weeks ago. I was just letting you know that I agree with you and went with what you said. But I was unsure if I understood what you said. I think you meant I should tell him what courses he needs to take so he does not just take whatever he wants to take and later gets upset because I did not warn him. Then he can chose what to take and if he still chooses to skip the chemistry, he will have made an educated decision, correct? When I commented on the typos, it was only because I was hoping you would clarify what you meant, that was all. No biggie. But I do appreciate you taking the time to try and help, I really do. I was just confused by the part about forcing him to take the classes I force him to take and him getting mad about not qualifying. I am guessing you just meant not telling him which courses he needed when I knew all along and later he gets angry at me when he does not qualify? 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 1/23/2019 at 7:17 PM, Frances said:

I think I would let him do the research himself on academy requirements and then make his course choices. If he doesn’t want to do what is required, then the decision on admission is already made for him.

"they" in the armed forces say whatever you want to hear, because every person is a possibility to them for recruitment.  Unless something is signed and IN WRITING "they" are more likely to be telling you whatever you want to hear.  I'm sorry 😞

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8 hours ago, Calming Tea said:

"they" in the armed forces say whatever you want to hear, because every person is a possibility to them for recruitment.  Unless something is signed and IN WRITING "they" are more likely to be telling you whatever you want to hear.  I'm sorry 😞

I’ve certainly heard that about regular military recruiting. But I didn’t think it would apply in a situation where a non-athlete is vying for competitive admission to a military academy. I assumed that like most colleges, they have a fairly standard list of the high school classes they require or recommend for admission.

 

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1 hour ago, Frances said:

I’ve certainly heard that about regular military recruiting. But I didn’t think it would apply in a situation where a non-athlete is vying for competitive admission to a military academy. I assumed that like most colleges, they have a fairly standard list of the high school classes they require or recommend for admission.

 

 

I'm referrring to Janeway's statement that "they" told her that ASD is not a disqualifier

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5 hours ago, Calming Tea said:

 

I'm referrring to Janeway's statement that "they" told her that ASD is not a disqualifier

Oh. I was referring to whether or not physics was recommended or required.

Edited to mean chemistry rather than physics, as the thread was old.

Edited by Frances
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