Menu
Jump to content

What's with the ads?

Quill

Opinion discussion: How do you feel about public schools distributing

Recommended Posts

I'm 100% for this.  Dental dams, too.  Should come with a booklet on STIs.

I also think that public high schools should have a once/month health clinic where teen girls can get long-acting birth control for free, such as implants/IUDs.  

Anything to help prevent unwanted pregnancies.  

  • Like 12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anything that prevents disease and unwanted pregnancies is good.

Teenagers don't suddenly have sex because the nurse's office has condoms. Conversely, a lack of condom does not prevent sex either.

I can't even begin to think why this would be a problem.

Edited by regentrude
  • Like 13
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

100% for it!  I don't care if it only helps 5 kids....that is 5 less kids with unplanned teen pregnancies or STDs.  

A lot of teens do not have jobs or money. Asking dad for $10 for a box of condoms isn't in a lot of family cultures. Sex is a *free passtime and is something that isn't limited by how much money a teen has in their pocket.  Add in embarrassment, and the fear of getting recognized buying condoms, it makes it much more likely that a teen would feel comfortable getting them from the school nurse, vs the grocery store.  They can also just get a couple, vs buying a box and then having to store the extras. I can also see the one kid who doesn't care about what the nurse thinks (or is showing off) getting extras for friends. 

I work in pharmacy, you would be surprised how many grown adults, walk all the way to the back of the store to pay for condoms and female hygiene products in the pharmacy, due to being embarrassed in front of the main cashiers (not a small town BTW). They will pay for them in the pharmacy (perceived trust due to medical profession) with less embarrassment....which makes me think that they are way more likely to get them from the school nurse than the grocery store. 

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

 

Maybe because ‘just say no’ hasn’t been an effective message, about anything, for the last 50 years?

A good part of the reason it isn't effective is all the media showing people joyfully not saying "no."

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DesertBlossom said:

Just because it doesn't always work, doesn't mean it's not worth teaching. I waited until sex for marriage and I still think it was one of the best decisions I made for myself. Zero regrets about that. 

I know that abstinence-only education doesn't always work, but it teaches that sex is a really big deal and not a decision to be taken lightly. Even if some kids don't wait, we're still teaching that it's a really big deal. And even if they have sex outside of marriage, pretending that it's not a big deal is not helping anyone. If we could prevent all unplanned pregnancies and all STDs, there are still emotional and psychological consequences to engaging in casual sex, especially among teenagers. The message that kids are getting today from media and other places is that casual sex (or any sexual activity) is just fine as long as you're careful. And putting out a bowl of condoms contributes to that idea. 

It appears that I am a minority here in my beliefs, which is fine. I'm not clutching my pearls. I know that sometimes kids have sex. I know that sometimes Christian kids who have been taught to wait still have sex. I plan to be very open with my kids and we'll talk about condoms and pregnancy and STDs. But I sure as hell will not be putting out a bowl of condoms for them and tell them I think it's just fine as long as they are "careful."

Why not then comprehensive sex education that teaches all of the advantages of waiting, but prepares them if they don’t? As I said, I actually agree with you on waiting and that it is a very big deal, just not due to religious reasons. We know from research that abstinence only is not as effective as comprehensive education. My biggest concern is innocent children potentially being born into bad situations, so I want to go with is proven to be most effective in preventing that.

Edited by Frances
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Frances said:

Why not then comprehensive sex education that teaches all of the advantages of waiting, but prepares them if they don’t? As I said, I actually agree with you on waiting and that it is a very big deal, just not due to religious reasons. We know from research that abstinence only is not as effective as comprehensive education. My biggest concern is innocent children potentially being born into bad situations, so I want to go with is proven to be most effective in preventing that.

I do not have a problem with comprehensive sex education. I do have a problem with schools passing out free condoms. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Quill said:

I agree with you on this point, and my history is similar (I even have my own version of pencil dude), but IMO, if it’s committed relationship sex between teenagers, then man up (or woman up, or whatever-up) and buy your own supplies. There’s just no reason to fund that through the schools. 

Considering how a student's pregnancy disrupts her education, and how much schools likely spend trying to get teen moms back into and through high school, and the likelihood that the mom who doesn't get through will raise that little one in poverty and the schools will be dealing with him/her as a kindergartner in ~6 years, I think it makes sense for schools to throw a few hundred dollars a year per school--the cost of one laptop?--at this problem and see if it helps anybody.

2 hours ago, Quill said:

I don’t think that’s a bad policy at college. I’m more bothered by the discrepency between minors and past age of majority. There are lots of things available to my kids over 18 (and 21) that in a perfect world, I wish could just be erased from reality, but under age 18, it seems like some things should not be so available. 

It’s not that the existence of free condoms makes kids who were not going to have sex decide to. It’s tacit permission that I think is bothering me. Similar to the difference between parents who prohibit underage drinking of alcohol vs. those who permit it under their “supervision.” There was a study published in The Atlantic a couple years ago that showed that the kids with the permissive parents (they called it “Get Real” parents; i.e., “get real; kids drink, might as well supervise”) did not binge drink less in college; they binge-drank more. The kids with parents who prohibited endorsing underage drinking were less likely to binge-drink in college. (These findings pertain only to the US.) 

A whole lot of high school students are 18 or 19. Depending on your state, it is now the norm for students to be 18 at least for the whole senior year based on K cut-offs, with a fair number of  kids a year older than that because of delayed K entrance or staying back a year. And the age of consent in many states is below 18.

I opted to wait for sex (so DH, my high school boyfriend, did not have a choice w/o breaking up with me!). I'm encouraging my kid to do the same, but I think condoms should be available without a stigma and without parental cooperation. I also chose not to drink. It looks like significant numbers of youth are not so risk-averse, and nearly all will choose both to drink alcohol and to have sex by early adulthood, so I prefer that we normalize condoms, designated drivers, and other harm-reduction steps even as we counsel delaying risky behaviors.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, whitehawk said:

Considering how a student's pregnancy disrupts her education, and how much schools likely spend trying to get teen moms back into and through high school, and the likelihood that the mom who doesn't get through will raise that little one in poverty and the schools will be dealing with him/her as a kindergartner in ~6 years, I think it makes sense for schools to throw a few hundred dollars a year per school--the cost of one laptop?--at this problem and see if it helps anybody.

A whole lot of high school students are 18 or 19. Depending on your state, it is now the norm for students to be 18 at least for the whole senior year based on K cut-offs, with a fair number of  kids a year older than that because of delayed K entrance or staying back a year. And the age of consent in many states is below 18.

I opted to wait for sex (so DH, my high school boyfriend, did not have a choice w/o breaking up with me!). I'm encouraging my kid to do the same, but I think condoms should be available without a stigma and without parental cooperation. I also chose not to drink. It looks like significant numbers of youth are not so risk-averse, and nearly all will choose both to drink alcohol and to have sex by early adulthood, so I prefer that we normalize condoms, designated drivers, and other harm-reduction steps even as we counsel delaying risky behaviors.

Condoms are available without a stigma and without parental cooperation. It's called a store. Or if that's uncomfortable I happen to know plenty of gas stations that stock them in vending machines in the bathroom in all sorts of colors and flavors. 

I really don't understand this idea that teenagers are mature enough to have sex but not mature enough to be responsible for paying for their own supplies.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll also admit right here that I'm coming at this as a free-breakfast-and-lunch-eating co-valedictorian. Offering students through schools things that can improve health outcomes if their parents can't/don't seems, of course, like a very sound idea to me.

  • Like 18

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, DesertBlossom said:

Condoms are available without a stigma and without parental cooperation. It's called a store. Or if that's uncomfortable I happen to know plenty of gas stations that stock them in vending machines in the bathroom in all sorts of colors and flavors. 

I really don't understand this idea that teenagers are mature enough to have sex but not mature enough to be responsible for paying for their own supplies.

It sounds like you expect teenagers to have unsupervised access to stores/gas stations. Many don't. I didn't. And I lived in a city.

In high school, I had no money (not allowed to work, needed at home) and no way to get anywhere (was only able to date DH because he had access to a car) . Like, I went to the public library twice? in four years, whereas in adulthood I'm there every week. My grandmothers bought all my clothes (bless them, they gave my mom money some of the time so I had some input and could try shoes on). I did not buy any food. I could not have had a birth control budget, and if I did, I could not have had access to a store. (I don't think the corner store sold anything but junk food.) I chose not to have sex, but I think expecting that of 100% of teens is unreasonable.

Maybe I should say "unrealistic," in light of actual human behavior now and in history. I know all my grandparents were having unprotected sex in the '50s by age 18, because I can subtract. 🙂

Edited by whitehawk
  • Like 7
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, DesertBlossom said:

Condoms are available without a stigma and without parental cooperation. It's called a store. Or if that's uncomfortable I happen to know plenty of gas stations that stock them in vending machines in the bathroom in all sorts of colors and flavors. 

I really don't understand this idea that teenagers are mature enough to have sex but not mature enough to be responsible for paying for their own supplies.

My perspective is that many teens are not mature enough to have sex, but they are going to do it anyway. Heck, many adults are not mature enough to be having sex. So let’s make it as easy as possible for them to practice safe sex. Like you, I’d prefer they wait, but many don’t.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, whitehawk said:

Considering how a student's pregnancy disrupts her education, and how much schools likely spend trying to get teen moms back into and through high school, and the likelihood that the mom who doesn't get through will raise that little one in poverty and the schools will be dealing with him/her as a kindergartner in ~6 years, I think it makes sense for schools to throw a few hundred dollars a year per school--the cost of one laptop?--at this problem and see if it helps anybody.

The thing is, if that is ALL their are doing......throwing a few hundred dollars worth of condoms in a basket in the bathroom....the study that looked at actual outcomes of teen pregnancy rates and STDs  shows that it's not only not helping, but actually increasing the rates of both.   

Given how much good curriculum costs, I expect that good and effective overall sex ed program costs more than a few hundred dollars a year.  

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, dmmetler said:

When I went to my first college dorm meeting, we were handed a little box that contained condoms, and were told to carry it with us-that even if we didn’t need it, someone else might, and we should feel as comfortable asking another girl for a condom as for a tampon. That they were always available in the dorm offices, RAs had them, and student health. It was drilled into us that not only should  we be responsible for ourselves,  but our sisters as well (and this was a theme all year in the freshman dorm-that college women needed to stick together and support each other). 

 

I’d been on campus a month before I was asked for a condom (by a girlfriend of my boyfriend’s housemate)-agroup of us were gaming in the living room, when she came out of the bedroom and asked if anyone had one. All the girls present did-none of the guys did. 

 

 

This. As a RA, I kept a huge jar of condoms, lube, etc. near my door (funded by the nurse’s office at the university). Most people on my floor kept supplies on hand for others even if they themselves didn’t need the supplies.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, regentrude said:

Anything that prevents disease and unwanted pregnancies is good.

Teenagers don't suddenly have sex because the nurse's office has condoms. Conversely, a lack of condom does not prevent sex either.

I can't even begin to think why this would be a problem.

I am not against an overall effective program that might include the provision of condoms.

 

I can totally see how it would be a problem to just throw a few hundred dollars of condoms at a bunch of teens and think that's doing something.  Which, the OP later stated that the schools she is referencing didn't do, but plenty of other schools did or have, at least according to the report I linked earlier.  That's a waste of money that apparently increased rates of pregnancies and STDs.  We don't want to start going backward here.  

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

This. As a RA, I kept a huge jar of condoms, lube, etc. near my door (funded by the nurse’s office at the university). Most people on my floor kept supplies on hand for others even if they themselves didn’t need the supplies.

Lube?  People keep a supply of LUBE to give out too?  Really?!?!.  That's just......no thank you.  And............."supplies?"  Like what other "supplies" are people passing around college dorms?

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Thatboyofmine said:

I’m all for it.   Condom machines in the bathrooms would be fine, too.   we actually (dh and I) give ds $ to buy them.  

I think it is wonderful that you gave your son money for them.   When my daughter is older I fully plan to either provide her money for them or just provide the condoms themselves.  It is always better to be safe than sorry.  

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dental dams.

I was handed the supplies by the university after 6 students in my dorm tested positive for STDs, including a couple with HIV.

It was a health service intervention, coupled with educational presentations about safe sex, STDs, testing services (and abstinence).

ETA: the educational presentations were done by university health officials and the county health department

edited again to fix typos: the teen boys in the background are arguing loudly about historical sword designs

Edited by prairiewindmomma
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Ellie said:

A good part of the reason it isn't effective is all the media showing people joyfully not saying "no."

It wasn’t effective when my Dad was a teen either and birth control was virtually illegal. What’s the old folks’ excuse?

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no problem with it, especially since Quill said there is a comprehensive sex ed program in place. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

I don’t disagree. We live in a litigious society tho.

 

We live in a society without single-payer health care, which means that insurance companies squabble over who pays for what when people get sick or injured. Most of the time when you hear of a case of Doe v Roe where Doe tripped and broke their ankle on Roe's sidewalk or Roe got a minor allergic reaction that had to be treated in Urgent Care after Doe gave them a painkiller, what you're really seeing is Doe's Insurance v Roe's Insurance. And all our premiums go up.

With that said, I fully support condoms available to teens, in a basket so nobody has to see you taking one or a dozen. I'd also like it if they'd trust our *teens* to manage their own medication, especially OTC meds, unless we specifically wrote in saying otherwise. I don't think those two issues are at all connected.

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would agree with condoms in a basket, not with the nurse.  Unlike hormonal birth control (which is a no- no to at least 8-10 % of European ancestry women and also for a lot of other women), condoms would only be bad for someone with a latex allergy. Presumably they would know not to take one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Dental dams.

I was handed the supplies by the university after 6 students in my dorm tested positive for STDs, including a couple with HIV.

It was a health service intervention, coupled with educational presentations about safe sex, STDs, testing services (and abstinence).

ETA: the educational presentations were done by university health officials and the county health department

edited again to fix typos: the teen boys in the background are arguing loudly about historical sword designs

I have never heard of "dental dams" and am afraid to google, but I am making the assumption of what they are based on the name.  But, at least that's a better sort of "supply" than I was envisioning, at least coupled with the idea that lube is being passed out lol.  

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, whitehawk said:

Considering how a student's pregnancy disrupts her education, and how much schools likely spend trying to get teen moms back into and through high school, and the likelihood that the mom who doesn't get through will raise that little one in poverty and the schools will be dealing with him/her as a kindergartner in ~6 years, I think it makes sense for schools to throw a few hundred dollars a year per school--the cost of one laptop?--at this problem and see if it helps anybody.

A whole lot of high school students are 18 or 19. Depending on your state, it is now the norm for students to be 18 at least for the whole senior year based on K cut-offs, with a fair number of  kids a year older than that because of delayed K entrance or staying back a year. And the age of consent in many states is below 18.

I opted to wait for sex (so DH, my high school boyfriend, did not have a choice w/o breaking up with me!). I'm encouraging my kid to do the same, but I think condoms should be available without a stigma and without parental cooperation. I also chose not to drink. It looks like significant numbers of youth are not so risk-averse, and nearly all will choose both to drink alcohol and to have sex by early adulthood, so I prefer that we normalize condoms, designated drivers, and other harm-reduction steps even as we counsel delaying risky behaviors.

To the bolded: So? There are three grades in our high school filled with kids who are almost never over 18 (unless they have special educational needs or something). So at least 3/4 of the student body of the high schools here are minors. If we were saying showing proof of age meant kids >18 could get condoms, you might have a point. But you don’t say since some kids are over 18, it should be available to all. That’s nonsense. 

Back when the legal drinking age was 18, many high school seniors could legally drink alcohol; doesn’t mean high school dances served alcohol. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I have never heard of "dental dams" and am afraid to google, but I am making the assumption of what they are based on the name.  But, at least that's a better sort of "supply" than I was envisioning, at least coupled with the idea that lube is being passed out lol.  

 

If you are concerned about what will pop up if you google a term of this nature, but want to educate yourself, a safe source is Scarleteen. You can either go to their site and search there or, as I did, google "$TERM scarleteen" and see what pops up. I've gone ahead and linked to the relevant article there rather than the front page of the website. You'll have to scroll down a little, they discuss other, more well-known barrier methods of STI prevention first.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, whitehawk said:

It sounds like you expect teenagers to have unsupervised access to stores/gas stations. Many don't. I didn't. And I lived in a city.

In high school, I had no money (not allowed to work, needed at home) and no way to get anywhere (was only able to date DH because he had access to a car) . Like, I went to the public library twice? in four years, whereas in adulthood I'm there every week. My grandmothers bought all my clothes (bless them, they gave my mom money some of the time so I had some input and could try shoes on). I did not buy any food. I could not have had a birth control budget, and if I did, I could not have had access to a store. (I don't think the corner store sold anything but junk food.) I chose not to have sex, but I think expecting that of 100% of teens is unreasonable.

Maybe I should say "unrealistic," in light of actual human behavior now and in history. I know all my grandparents were having unprotected sex in the '50s by age 18, because I can subtract. 🙂

*shrug* My family was dirt poor and my parents were major Bible-thumpers. But I worked and so did my bf. We always had the necessary supplies. 

I would seriously question the wisdom of giving such piss-poor, no-resources, unsupportive-family teens free condoms, thinking that solves some problem. Where is this magical society where a teen in such a situation as that is only going to have sex when armed with his school-issued raincoat? When happens on summer break, holidays, weekends? Do these kids suddenly become chaste? Do they go get a job so they can afford protection? 

I just don’t get why we are treating these young people like they have no need whatsoever to assume responsibility for securing their own protection. It seems like more of the Helpless generation messaging. 

Just FTR, I am not a big proponent of virginal wedding days or wait till marriage messaging. If someone chooses that, fine, but I’m just filling in my perspective; I am not saying free condoms are bad because then teens will have sex. That isn’t my issue at all. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Thatboyofmine said:

I’m curious if the people who are against free condoms in schools are also against abortions or welfare.  

Well, I haven’t fully decided what I think about the free condom thing; hence, this discussion, but I am in favor of legal access to abortion nation-wide. There are some tricky sub-issues I am not sure how I land (such as a minor girl getting an abortion without parental help/assistance), but overall - pro-choice. I am also in favor of public assistance, once again, ambivalent about some sub-issues or parameters but, overall - in favor of assistance. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Quill said:

There’s such a thing as a latex allergy, though. 

I still see it as inconsistent, because if the risk inherant in a school nurse giving a student Tylanol is some potential allergy or misdose, how is there not a risk in giving prophelactics, which is tacitly condoning sex, which can absolutely lead to pregnancy or STDs either with a c@ndom, or in another instance wherein the teens were fresh out of their school supplies? 

It’s as though there is a belief - one I view as faulty - that if they are available for free from the school health aid, suddenly these otherwise-not-necessarily-responsible teens are going to use them correctly and consistently. (Besides which, they are not 100% even with correct and consistent use.) If there’s liability in saying, “The school nurse gave my son Tylanol, to which he is violently allergic, and he almost died,” isn’t there also liability in saying, “The school nurse gave my son three c@ndoms, which he used over the weekend; one broke and now he is testing as HIV-positive.”? 

 

Legally "tacitly condoning sex" has no meaning when determining liability.  The medication restrictions are an overreaction and most have no real basis in liability law either.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ellie said:

A good part of the reason it isn't effective is all the media showing people joyfully not saying "no."

Yes, as well know premarital sex was completely unknown until the wicked media changed society.

  • Like 4
  • Haha 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DesertBlossom said:

Condoms are available without a stigma and without parental cooperation. It's called a store. Or if that's uncomfortable I happen to know plenty of gas stations that stock them in vending machines in the bathroom in all sorts of colors and flavors. 

I really don't understand this idea that teenagers are mature enough to have sex but not mature enough to be responsible for paying for their own supplies.

 

Believing teens are mature enough to have sex /= understanding that many will still have sex.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Quill said:

*shrug* My family was dirt poor and my parents were major Bible-thumpers. But I worked and so did my bf. We always had the necessary supplies. 

I would seriously question the wisdom of giving such piss-poor, no-resources, unsupportive-family teens free condoms, thinking that solves some problem. Where is this magical society where a teen in such a situation as that is only going to have sex when armed with his school-issued raincoat? When happens on summer break, holidays, weekends? Do these kids suddenly become chaste? Do they go get a job so they can afford protection? 

I just don’t get why we are treating these young people like they have no need whatsoever to assume responsibility for securing their own protection. It seems like more of the Helpless generation messaging. 

Just FTR, I am not a big proponent of virginal wedding days or wait till marriage messaging. If someone chooses that, fine, but I’m just filling in my perspective; I am not saying free condoms are bad because then teens will have sex. That isn’t my issue at all. 

By making free condoms available at school, I don’t think we are treating young people like they have no need whatsoever to assume responsibility for securing their own protection. We’re simply providing one option among many. I don’t see it as any different than providing free or low cost birth control at Planned Parenthood or other such clinics, just more convenient. And those appointments also come with information, just like comprehensive sex education with free condoms at a high school. Many adults aren’t practicing safe, responsible sex, so I would certainly expect at least the same level of irresponsibility among teens. 

I will say that I would prefer that schools are emphasizing condoms combined with another method of birth control to increase the odds of preventing pregnancy.

Edited by Frances
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/21/2019 at 6:16 PM, ChocolateReignRemix said:

Yes, as well know premarital sex was completely unknown until the wicked media changed society.

Edited by Frances

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, DesertBlossom said:

And this bothers me. The idea that we're putting out bowls of condoms like we used to put out bowls of mints says, "Hey, this is no big deal. Everyone is doing it. We know you're gonna do it. Or your friends are gonna do it. Keep it in your wallet so you're always ready just in case you or a friend decides to have spontaneous sex with that person you just met at a party!" 

Sex. Is. A. Big. Deal. 

At least at my college, where we were handed them and told to keep them with us, it wasn’t “we know you’re going to do it”. It was presented as something to have on hand if needed, like carrying change for a pay phone and the number for campus safety so that there was no reason to ever drive drunk or get into a car with someone who was. That you provided them to other people as readily as you’d offer someone a ride home if they had been drinking and you hadn’t. It wasn’t assumed everyone would drink or have sex. It was that everyone had a responsibity to help keep each other safe. 

 

 

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Quill said:

To the bolded: So? There are three grades in our high school filled with kids who are almost never over 18 (unless they have special educational needs or something). So at least 3/4 of the student body of the high schools here are minors. If we were saying showing proof of age meant kids >18 could get condoms, you might have a point. But you don’t say since some kids are over 18, it should be available to all. That’s nonsense. 

Back when the legal drinking age was 18, many high school seniors could legally drink alcohol; doesn’t mean high school dances served alcohol. 

Condoms decrease health risks; alcohol increases them. Likely that's why there's no legal restriction on age for buying condoms.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, DesertBlossom said:

Condoms are available without a stigma and without parental cooperation. It's called a store. Or if that's uncomfortable I happen to know plenty of gas stations that stock them in vending machines in the bathroom in all sorts of colors and flavors. 

I really don't understand this idea that teenagers are mature enough to have sex but not mature enough to be responsible for paying for their own supplies.

I think part of the issue though is that teens often are NOT mature enough to make responsible decisions about sex, isn't it?  I'm firmly in the camp that believes that sex is a really lovely thing to be shared among two partners who are committed to each other for life.  But I think even people who believe that -- maybe especially teens who are not yet mature enough to understand the consequences -- make mistakes, or choose differently in the moment.    And a lot of people grow up not believing that at all, or come from homes that don't bother to teach them anything and the teens are on their own figuring this all out.  So what do you do about those kids that don't get any guidance from home at all?  I do think it's good and smart for a school to have a comprehensive sex ed program that discusses all of this, AND that encourages the option of abstinence, and reasons for it.  But I really don't see a problem with having free condoms available either.  I don't think it's going to cause a teen to change their mind about having sex one way or the other, but it might cause a handful of teens to do it more safely, preventing unwanted pregnancies and/or STD's.  And let's face it, it doesn't make sense to me that some people who are adamant against abortions often don't support birth control for teens either, one of the main things that would help prevent the need for an abortion.  Sure -- abstinence is the best answer, but isn't safe birth control the next best thing?  I'm not at all giddy about abortions, don't get me wrong.  I think they need to be well thought through and rare (as someone else put it).  But come on then, we need a back-up option.  This isn't a perfect world we live in, and it's a world where a lot of teens are going to make dumb decisions (which are not always their fault) that could easily affect their lives (and a baby's life) for the long term.

So even though at first I didn't like the idea of a school having free condoms available, the more I think about it, the more I don't have a problem with it.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok so I googled dental dams and it’s way totally worse than I thought!   When I saw the term all I could imagine was those horrible rubber things the dentist puts in your mouth to do a root canal.  And I thought oh no, it HAS to be something different than that.  But it’s NOT!   I would completely have flash backs of root canals if anyone ever pulled out something like that lol.  I can only imagine that those things help prevent STDs because once it’s pulled out the other person takes off lol.  

I don’t mean to make light of what might actually be beneficial.   I just can’t imagine being comfortable making that sort of thing part of my sexual experience.  

  • Haha 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have a problem with it but I would be surprised if there were that many students who would actually face down a school nurse in person for condoms. 

Dh and I both grew up in families that just did not talk about this stuff at all other than you do not do it till your married. It was less than helpful. We have really gone out of our comfort zones with our own kids. I also didn't even know what dental dams were but made myself learn and we were able to talk with our kids about it all. Discussing being safe doesn't mean we don't also discuss being smart about the "when/how old" part of it all. They know it's not something to take lightly. I honestly think my dc's age groups (17-19 year olds) take it much more seriously than my own generation did. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, I don't understand how condoms are being equated with alcohol or even Tylenol.  You ingest Tylenol and alcohol.  Both can have very serious consequences if used wrong.  Condoms are meant to take away the serious consequences and you don't ingest them.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Quill said:

<snip>

I still see it as inconsistent, because if the risk inherant in a school nurse giving a student Tylanol is some potential allergy or misdose, how is there not a risk in giving prophelactics, which is tacitly condoning sex, which can absolutely lead to pregnancy or STDs either with a c@ndom, or in another instance wherein the teens were fresh out of their school supplies? 

<snip>

 

I think there is an inconsistency in this reasoning.  It's definitely possible to say, "What you do with your body is your decision. I hope you will wait. But if you decide NOT to wait, you MUST be responsible about it because it isn't just your life you're messing up.  It's the life of a baby who deserves two parents who love each other AND the baby." IE: If you don't wait, don't be an idiot.

It may be anecdotal, but IME the more anti- sex ed a church is, the higher the percentage of teen pregnancy. Because they are sure they are absolutely NOT going to plan on having sex, because backsliding means they're going to hell, and being responsible means they are planning on sinning. But "accidentally giving into temptation" is totally human. So girl after girl after girl gets pregnant. IME explaining how important it is to make responsible decisions helps a ton.  And that coupled with free condoms might help a great deal too.

5 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

 

Really, it was bad. It is, literally, my only major life regret.

 

I had one of those too.

1 hour ago, Quill said:

*shrug* My family was dirt poor and my parents were major Bible-thumpers. But I worked and so did my bf. We always had the necessary supplies. 

I would seriously question the wisdom of giving such piss-poor, no-resources, unsupportive-family teens free condoms, thinking that solves some problem. Where is this magical society where a teen in such a situation as that is only going to have sex when armed with his school-issued raincoat? When happens on summer break, holidays, weekends? Do these kids suddenly become chaste? Do they go get a job so they can afford protection? 

I just don’t get why we are treating these young people like they have no need whatsoever to assume responsibility for securing their own protection. It seems like more of the Helpless generation messaging. 

Just FTR, I am not a big proponent of virginal wedding days or wait till marriage messaging. If someone chooses that, fine, but I’m just filling in my perspective; I am not saying free condoms are bad because then teens will have sex. That isn’t my issue at all. 

 

So... were you not a believer at the time or did you just ignore the biblical rules regarding sex? Because bible-thumper kids rarely make such responsible decisions IME.

I'm not a proponent of virginal wedding nights either, I'm just surprised.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Ok so I googled dental dams and it’s way totally worse than I thought!   When I saw the term all I could imagine was those horrible rubber things the dentist puts in your mouth to do a root canal.  And I thought oh no, it HAS to be something different than that.  But it’s NOT!   I would completely have flash backs of root canals if anyone ever pulled out something like that lol.  I can only imagine that those things help prevent STDs because once it’s pulled out the other person takes off lol.  

I don’t mean to make light of what might actually be beneficial.   I just can’t imagine being comfortable making that sort of thing part of my sexual experience.  

 

What?  They don't hold your mouth open, they just prevent getting throat cancer from oral sex.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Katy said:

 

What?  They don't hold your mouth open, they just prevent getting throat cancer from oral sex.

Hold the mouth open?   

ETA: the thing at the dentist office, for me, was never something that held the mouth open.  It was a square of rubber/latex/whatever that was placed in the mouth to prevent dental debis from going down the throat.  Usually it was gently clamped to the tooth to leave the dentists hands free.  I can still see and smell the freaking thing as I type that

What I found online is that the ones used for adult activities only differ in that a person has to hold it in place.  No clamps (one would hope)

 

 

this is the wikipedia page that came up

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_dam

Edited by happysmileylady
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, J-rap said:

Also, I don't understand how condoms are being equated with alcohol or even Tylenol.  You ingest Tylenol and alcohol.  Both can have very serious consequences if used wrong.  Condoms are meant to take away the serious consequences and you don't ingest them.

It's that they assume a student is not responsible enough to know when to take a Tylenol but somehow they are smart enough to know what to do with a condom.  Also, it's refusing parents the right to cede responsibility on the former but forcing them to cede it on the latter.  I hope most of us would agree that having sex is a bigger deal than taking an otc pill.

I would be concerned that handing out condoms would give students the idea that a condom will protect them, though we know that many young people don't know how to use them right and the fail rate is not especially low.  But, as a parent, I hope I will drum that information into my kids' heads (I have already started telling my 12yos that they should always use multiple bc methods if and when they want to have sex without getting pregnant).

I am also concerned about the media influencing kids to think teen sex is and should be the norm.  That isn't exactly anything new, but again, I have already started the parental campaign against those attitudes. 

I hope that my kids' choices don't come down to what's available in the nurse's office at school.  But, who am I kidding - I would prefer that over a teen pregnancy.

Edited by SKL
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, EmseB said:

Do people really know teens that wouldn't use condoms but for going to ask an adult at school for them? Realistically? I mean, by all means, stock the schools up with condoms, make them available, pass them out to everyone in health class...I'm not opposed in principle (mostly for the reason that I don't ever expect public schools to line up with my values about sex so I'm kinda past the point of carrying what they do in that regard), but given limited resources for actually educating kids I would guess it to be not a very good use of money to have them in some nurses office that kids have to go and ask for them in school.

I have to admit this is where I'm at on this, too. Maybe I'm just old and tired, but I don't have it in me to get worked up about most things* that go on in public schools. I expect that public school activities will reflect the values of society at large, and no surprise, they do.

I wasn't going to get into this discussion, but onelittlemonkey asked if those who were opposed to abortion and welfare were also opposed to condom distribution. I think onelittlemonkey is awesome, so for her sake I'll try to articulate my not-yet-fully-formed opinion on it. I oppose abortion in every circumstance; if the mother's life is at risk, I believe every effort should be made to save both lives, if possible. I support welfare because poor people need help and Scripture commands us to help them, the end. Condoms at school: not something I would protest, but neither are they something I would personally provide for unmarried couples. I do understand why others have a different position, but my conscience won't allow me to support or participate in something I believe to be sin. 

Looking at it using a different example: I won't vote for someone I know to be evil even if they--for example--pledge to nominate pro-life Supreme Court nominees. I don't think that I, as a Christian, should ever actively and personally support sin in the hopes that good may result from it. So I wouldn't say to someone, "Here, let me give you a condom in case you want to sin." But I am going to expect the public school to have the same position? Of course not.

I don't expect many to agree with me on this, and that's okay. 😉 

(*I draw the line at those who teach kids to disrespect life and harm living creatures, like that *&#$%& ag teacher who tortured raccoons in class. 😠)  

Edited by MercyA
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, SKL said:

It's that they assume a student is not responsible enough to know when to take a Tylenol but somehow they are smart enough to know what to do with a condom.  Also, it's refusing parents the right to cede responsibility on the former but forcing them to cede it on the latter.  I hope most of us would agree that having sex is a bigger deal than taking an otc pill.

I would be concerned that handing out condoms would give students the idea that a condom will protect them, though we know that many young people don't know how to use them right and the fail rate is not especially low.  But, as a parent, I hope I will drum that information into my kids' heads (I have already started telling my 12yos that they should always use multiple bc methods if and when they want to have sex without getting pregnant).

I am also concerned about the media influencing kids to think teen sex is and should be the norm.  That isn't exactly anything new, but again, I have already started the parental campaign against those attitudes.  I hope that my kids' choices don't come down to what's available in the nurse's office at school.  But, I would prefer that over a teen pregnancy.

Your first paragraph....totally agree.

Your second, I don’t know about access giving false ideas of protection, but you mention failure rates. As I understand it, reported failure rates presume proper useage.  And I don’t know about anyone else, but one reason I always hated the things was the “mistake” rate...stupid things break, expire, come off etc.

Theid paragraph...let’s get a bit controversial here.  Teen sex IS the norm.  It always has been.  In many cultures puberty means adulthood.  My grandmother was 18 when she got married and had her first child before she was 20.  My great grandmother was married at 17...because she was pregnant.   They stayed together till great grandpa passed at the age of 77 and they had a total of 9 kids.  My mom and her siblings all got married at age 20 or earlier.    

I got pregnant at 17.  I had my youngest kid just before I tuned 35.  My experience has led me to believe that the human body is SUPPOSED to give birth at those younger ages. But socially, intellectually, we aren’t supposed to be there.  I think there is an interesting conflict between biology and society.  And biologically, I don’t thing later teen pregnancy is all that weird.  From our current society standpoint it’s undesirable and hard.  But it’s still certainly something that has been going on for generations and isn’t abnormal 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, MercyA said:

I have to admit this is where I'm at on this, too. Maybe I'm just old and tired, but I don't have it in me to get worked up about most things* that go on in public schools. I expect that public school activities will reflect the values of society at large, and no surprise, they do.

I wasn't going to get into this discussion, but onelittlemonkey asked if those who were opposed to abortion and welfare were also opposed to condom distribution. I think onelittlemonkey is awesome, so for her sake I'll try to articulate my not-yet-fully-formed opinion on it. I oppose abortion in every circumstance; if the mother's life is at risk, I believe every effort should be made to save both lives, if possible. I support welfare because poor people need help and Scripture commands us to help them, the end. Condoms at school: not something I would protest, but neither are they something I would personally provide for unmarried couples. I do understand why others have a different position, but my conscience won't allow me to support or participate in something I believe to be sin. 

Looking at it using a different example: I won't vote for someone I know to be evil even if they--for example--pledge to nominate pro-life Supreme Court nominees. I don't think that I, as a Christian, should ever actively and personally support sin in the hopes that good may result from it. So I wouldn't say to someone, "Here, let me give you a condom in case you want to sin." But I am going to expect the public school to have the same position? Of course not.

I don't expect many to agree with me on this, and that's okay. 😉 

(*I draw the line at those who teach kids to disrespect life and harm living creatures, like that *&#$%& ag teacher who tortured raccoons in class. 😠)  

For me, it comes down to what is the greater wrong. While I don’t hold the religious view that sex before marriage is a sin, I do think it is best for people to wait until they are mature, self-supporting, committed, and ready to have children because nothing except abstinence is 100%. But I believe bringing an innocent child into this world before you are ready to be a parent is far more wrong than having protected sex before you are ready to parent. The latter is only affecting the two people doing it, the former affects a completely innocent person for the rest of their life.   

And just to be clear, I’m not implying that all unplanned pregnancies between unmarried people result in bad parenting and bad outcomes. But in my volunteer work and extended family, I’ve certainly seen enough suffering to want to help to avoid it if at all possible.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Your first paragraph....totally agree.

Your second, I don’t know about access giving false ideas of protection, but you mention failure rates. As I understand it, reported failure rates presume proper useage.  And I don’t know about anyone else, but one reason I always hated the things was the “mistake” rate...stupid things break, expire, come off etc.

Theid paragraph...let’s get a bit controversial here.  Teen sex IS the norm.  It always has been.  In many cultures puberty means adulthood.  My grandmother was 18 when she got married and had her first child before she was 20.  My great grandmother was married at 17...because she was pregnant.   They stayed together till great grandpa passed at the age of 77 and they had a total of 9 kids.  My mom and her siblings all got married at age 20 or earlier.    

I got pregnant at 17.  I had my youngest kid just before I tuned 35.  My experience has led me to believe that the human body is SUPPOSED to give birth at those younger ages. But socially, intellectually, we aren’t supposed to be there.  I think there is an interesting conflict between biology and society.  And biologically, I don’t thing later teen pregnancy is all that weird.  From our current society standpoint it’s undesirable and hard.  But it’s still certainly something that has been going on for generations and isn’t abnormal 

I think teen parenthood is harder now than in previous generations because it is much more difficult for a young couple with limited education to get the type of jobs that can support a family. And the financial stress then placed on the couple makes it more likely the marriage will fail.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it falls to the responsibility of the schools. 

Other places provide these for free. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Katy said:

 

What?  They don't hold your mouth open, they just prevent getting throat cancer from oral sex.

 

Just going to put in a plug for the HPV vax here for this as well. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Frances said:

I think teen parenthood is harder now than in previous generations because it is much more difficult for a young couple with limited education to get the type of jobs that can support a family. And the financial stress then placed on the couple makes it more likely the marriage will fail.

Having done it in the recent generations , I totally agree. All I mean is that I think those difficulties are socially imposed vs biologically.   Trying to go to college while dealing with babies is ROUGH, I have plenty of experience with that.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...