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Public School vs. Private School, Plus some Woo-Woo, Plus what ds wants


Ginevra
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Tryin’ to think this through. Ds is in 8th grade this year, and the plan has always been to send him to B&M school for high school. My two older kids followed this pattern as well and went to a private school. We managed to always pay the tuition and now pay for college for them both, though dd graduates this spring, so we will soon not pay tuition for her anymore. (Actually, we have already paid for spring, so no more tuition for her.)

DH has been thinking more of sending youngest to public school, mostly because of the pressure of tuition. I am not as resistent to it as I once was but on the whole, I really don’t like public school. (It is a “good” school; this is not the problem. I don’t like lots of aspects of public school.) 

I semi-hatched the idea that I might be able to get a job at the private school, which a) I believe discounts tuition and b) would bring in income to go to tuitions for both kids. My older son works at the school during break and in summer, so it is relatively easy for me to get an “in” if employment were it at all available there. So I went on the school website today and looked, out of pure curiosity and thinking it actually pretty unlikely, to see if there might be an employment opportunity I could meet. Lo and behold, there is. Executive Admin Assistant. So, that’s the Woo-Woo part. It’s like the Universe said, “Oh, you need a job here so ds can go to school here? Well, why didn’t you just say so!” 

But then, I asked DS which school he would prefer, had he a choice and what do you suppose was his immediate answer? The public school. His primary reason is because he has “friends going there.” Well...sort of. But not really in the way I think he naively believes. He knows ONE formerly hsed friend who goes there, but they have rarely crossed paths in three years. And I know how weird friendships can get in those years at those ages. Also, he knows two “neighbor” kids (we aren’t in a real neighborhood, but these kids are nearest to us and would ride the same bus), but they have sort of dropped out of view - I don’t know exactly what that’s about but they became scarce. I think ds is naive about this, too. He doesn’t know how kids can turn on former friends. He’s been largely insulated from that in the hs community. 

Also: clothing snobbery, tech gadget snobbery, probability he won’t make school sports teams at ps, though he would at private, prevalence of drugs, probability he would not be in Honors English, which then puts him in an undesirable peer group, etc., etc., etc. I have many reservations about public school. 

I don’t know what to do. I am strongly considering calling about the job and getting some info on it. They would know who I am and I imagine would welcome my application. But, I don’t want to do that if ds doesn’t want it anyway! It definitely takes something for me to go to work FT. But I may need to do that within the next four years anyway. Besides all that, I expect some pushback from dh on the private school, even if I did get a job there. He doesn’t see the potential problems I see with the ps, although that is nothing new; I’m the Big Idealist in every case and it’s very hard for me to accept something I don’t think is optimal if another way could be made. It also bugs me to think youngest gets the barrel-scrapings and not the excellent schooling the older two got. 

Help me think! 

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If the only advantage your son sees in public school is some maybe could be friends going there, that's not much of an advantage. Does this private school start with 9th grade or will many of the kids already have established friend groups there? If it's a bunch of kids all new to the school that's good friendship forming territory.

Certainly call about the job, find out if it sounds like a good fit on both ends.

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14 minutes ago, maize said:

If the only advantage your son sees in public school is some maybe could be friends going there, that's not much of an advantage. Does this private school start with 9th grade or will many of the kids already have established friend groups there? If it's a bunch of kids all new to the school that's good friendship forming territory.

Certainly call about the job, find out if it sounds like a good fit on both ends.

The private school does have a middle school, but they get a LOT of formerly hsed students. Of my two older kids, one had no problem getting into a friend group, but the other had struggles. For the kid that struggled with friend groups, the “in” was sports. I can see a similar situation for ds. He is a good athlete and would easily get on sports teams at the private school, but possibly not at the public. 

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25 minutes ago, Quill said:

Also: clothing snobbery, tech gadget snobbery, probability he won’t make school sports teams at ps, though he would at private, prevalence of drugs, probability he would not be in Honors English, which then puts him in an undesirable peer group, etc., etc., etc. I have many reservations about public school. 

It also bugs me to think youngest gets the barrel-scrapings and not the excellent schooling the older two got. 

 

Sports is a big reason my boys would go to a private high school if something happens to me. My kids were jeered at by public school kids at the sports center because my kids are at the Beginners Level class. A parent did tell her daughter off when she heard her daughter insulting my kid. 

I do think the “what ifs” might bug you for many years if you could afford private and your son choose to go public. 

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Many of your downsides to public school could still happen at a private school - "snobbery" may even be worse. Privates schools can be just as bad about drugs and alcohol- maybe different types, but don't kid yourself thinking that there are no kids at the private school using drugs.

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I think the academics at the private school we just left were mostly better, although not by much, especially for my high schooler in pre-AP and honors classes.  The fine arts opportunities at the public are much better and in general there are much better and more electives, including a greater variety of foreign languages.  The sports opportunities for them were better at private.  Socially, they say the kids in public school are much nicer.  Even if we won the lottery, it would be a hard choice, honestly.  

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Well, I think all factors of ds's education are certainly relevant and should be considered. But given that your future is at stake here too, I'd first ask the question: Do you WANT the job? Or any job?

If the answer is yes, then apply for the job. In the end, you could still opt to send ds to public school and bank that income (or heck, do something nice for yourself with some of it!).

Edited by PeachyDoodle
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10 minutes ago, PeachyDoodle said:

Well, I think all factors of ds's education are certainly relevant and should be considered. But given that your future is at stake here too, I'd first ask the question: Do you WANT the job? Or any job?

If the answer is yes, then apply for the job. In the end, you could still opt to send ds to public school and bank that income (or heck, do something nice for yourself with some of it!).

In a perfect scenario where money is of no consequence, I would not want a job. But since that is not the scenario of reality, I have been definitely considering getting FT secretarial work for more than a year. Because yes, no matter where he goes to school, the income would be certainly helpful. 

If someone would pay me handsomely to read, write, do yoga and knit heirloom baby blankets, I would happily do that rather than go back to office work. But I don’t think that is happening. 

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Another big point for the private school is certain teachers who pretty much saved my older DS from going down a dark road. Even older DS has said, “the best thing about that school is Mr. A and Mr. C. If they were to quit, that school would be sunk.” I sure would love for my younger ds to have those teachers, too. Although the best math teacher from my older kids’ days retired. 

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All the stuff you mentioned in the down for public happens more than you think in private.  And in some cases, it is worse in private school( especially if it is the most effluent one in the area). 

It has been a bit since your other kids were in the classes in the private, right?  Things change and it could not be the great classes your older kids had. Before making a decision could you have DS do a shadow day? That could give you both a feel for what it is now.  

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I am planning on sending DD12 to school next year. She wants to go to the public Junior high over the charter school that I would prefer. She gives the same reasons-- she knows a couple people going to the Jr high. I think the odds of having classes together is slim, plus some aren't even in the same grade so she might rarely see them. The way I see it, she's going to find new friends wherever she ends up going. And I much prefer the what her overall experience will be at the charter school. So while I would love to give her a bigger say in this decision, ultimately I am going to do what I feel best about. 

Definitely look into the job! If that works out, that your answer right there, no doubt about it!

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I'll add my voice to those saying that drugs and other issues are often quite prevalent at private schools as well as public. Definitely drugs, lol.

In my area, I'd say the big advantages of private school tend to be a smaller and calmer atmosphere, less disruption in class,  and considerably less sass to the teachers - they put up with nothing, lol, that's why teachers accept the lower pay. Academics vary. High achievers often go public if they can't afford the very expensive top privates, because publics often offer much more variety in courses. The boy's Catholic high school by me, for example, only offer Spanish to a high level, with two years of French being the ONLY other foreign language choice. Math only goes through precalc,  they only have two years of art (set classes, no choices, you have year 1 and year 2) and limited electives in general. Even the best regarded privated is limited in choice but they do have pretty fierce academics including five years of Spanish, French, Latin, and Greek, math through calculus, and more choices in science and computers. If you want more choices in electives, career academies, a specialty other than languages, or IB, you have to go public. 

Edited to add that bullying and hazing are big issues at some of our privates. 

There is definitely a lot to consider when choosing a school that he will hopefully stay at for four years, and I agree that having some acquaintances at a certain school shouldn't weigh in very much. He should definitely have the option of the private school unless it's absolutely impossible - I think it's rough to send two kids to private and then tell the third he can't go. It sounds like some fresh research and recon is needed. 

Regarding the job, if your timeline is as short as one to four years, I would definitely find out more about this job. If it's not a good fit, you don't have to pursue it or take it, but it's good to get the ball rolling on looking and figuring out what you do and don't want in a job. 

Edited by katilac
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44 minutes ago, itsheresomewhere said:

All the stuff you mentioned in the down for public happens more than you think in private.  And in some cases, it is worse in private school( especially if it is the most effluent one in the area). 

It has been a bit since your other kids were in the classes in the private, right?  Things change and it could not be the great classes your older kids had. Before making a decision could you have DS do a shadow day? That could give you both a feel for what it is now.  

I’m not saying those things don’t happen at the private school, but it is significantly different. I typed a reply to that point earlier but this board chose that moment to sign me out FNAR, so I didn’t get to say that. There is some snobbery there and some of the families are mind-bogglingly wealthy, but there is overall a lot less posturing for economic class. Maybe because nobody goes there if they are truly dirt poor, so there’s just not as much to prove. But for some things, like tech competing, the kids are not allowed to use their phones in class and for schoolwork, everyone uses an ipad. 

Also not saying there are no drugs or alcohol abuse, but it’s a smaller student body and the “lines” are more sharply delineated there. 

My older son graduated last spring, so it seems unlikely it has changed drastically. Younger ds could do a shadow day and definitely will if we would send him there. 

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11 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Just playing devil's advocate, as  a quick observation on private schools- there is less option to get away from the bad crowd usually due to smaller population in general. Everyone knows everyone. If the cool group is into drugs, or whatever vice de jour, there is less of a chance to move onto another peer group. At least that is how it works here. Class sizes in PS school here are typically well over 1k kids per grade, that isn't the case at private. There is also the money issue, which I get you are saying that's less of an issue in this instance, but I just wanted to chime in on the whole peer group size. For all of the bad groups in public school, there is at least a better chance of moving away. I also feel like, when I was there and what I still see, that sometimes private school kids have an awful lot to prove. So for me a lot of this would hinge on how peer pressure prone a particular kid is. I honestly think if a kid was more prone to peer pressure, that would be the one I'd send to public school over private. 

 

There is something to this. 

I graduated from a private high school--if I remember correctly my graduating class totaled 64 people. The culture of a class could vary drastically from year to year. My class were mostly pretty studious and not inclined to trouble; oh, there was plenty of drinking on weekends (legal where we were) but on the whole people stayed out of trouble.

My sister was two grades behind me and her class was WILD; bad enough that I seem to remember their senior retreat being cancelled.

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13 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Just playing devil's advocate, as  a quick observation on private schools- there is less option to get away from the bad crowd usually due to smaller population in general. Everyone knows everyone. If the cool group is into drugs, or whatever vice de jour, there is less of a chance to move onto another peer group. At least that is how it works here. Class sizes in PS school here are typically well over 1k kids per grade, that isn't the case at private. There is also the money issue, which I get you are saying that's less of an issue in this instance, but I just wanted to chime in on the whole peer group size. For all of the bad groups in public school, there is at least a better chance of moving away. I also feel like, when I was there and what I still see, that sometimes private school kids have an awful lot to prove. So for me a lot of this would hinge on how peer pressure prone a particular kid is. I honestly think if a kid was more prone to peer pressure, that would be the one I'd send to public school over private. 

I hear what you’re saying but one homeschooler I know, who is in a position to know specifically what is going on at the ps my son would attend, said it hinges on what level classes the kid is in. So if he struggles in his English skills, putting him in the non-Honors English (where he academically belongs) would be a bad negative for peer group. He will be “making friends with the undesirable crowd and his social activities will be an extension of that.” That freaked me right out, in part because I have seen evidence of that in other kids who transitioned from hs to public. So, from what she is saying, there is *not* much opportunity to move away. She said it would be better for him to be in Honors English where he can be around the decent kids, even if he’s practically failing, then demote to base English with the troubled kids. 

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18 minutes ago, busymama7 said:

If your son makes friends at the private school will it make for long commutes to hang out with them? That has been a disadvantage of homeschooling that I live with but sometimes I wish my kids had friends in a closer geographical area. 

They could be three miles away or forty miles away; I have had both experiences with my two older kids. The private school is in a perfect location and draws from seven different counties plus the city. 

Where we live we have never had many really convenient friendships. Only my youngest has had friends who could walk to our house; they are the “neighbor” kids who would ride the same bus. 

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38 minutes ago, Quill said:

I hear what you’re saying but one homeschooler I know, who is in a position to know specifically what is going on at the ps my son would attend, said it hinges on what level classes the kid is in.  

 

I do think there is a lot of truth to this in certain areas, including mine. Also, I don't know about now  but, back in the day, the classes went from honors to ridiculously easy with nothing in between.   

1 hour ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

 Class sizes in PS school here are typically well over 1k kids per grade 

 

😲 And I thought a high school of 2,000 was big!!

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I suggest that you sign your son up for shadowing days at the private school. He does not have a strong enough reason to choose public school from what you say. Let him see if the private school is a good fit or not. Then, you can have this discussion again with him after he has been in the school and experienced what a day is like there and what the peer group is like. My philosophy is always that a child is better off amidst a highly talented peer group even if the child is unable to stand-out in the group because there is so much a child leans through osmosis and there is so much a child gains from discussion and debate with a more capable group. So, if the private school will put him in honors classes, he should consider it. If you can get a job and tuition discount/waiver there, all the better because it also cuts down on drop-off/pick-up, vacation day scheduling etc in addition to good resume building in anticipation of 4-5 years from now.

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13 hours ago, Quill said:

If someone would pay me handsomely to read, write, do yoga and knit heirloom baby blankets, I would happily do that rather than go back to office work. But I don’t think that is happening. 

You'd better find that job before I do, because if I come across it I'm going to snatch it up!! 😄

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Yes, I have a daughter with severe learning disabilities with an IEP.  I put my foot down and said she would be in honors classes regardless of whether or not she belonged there academically.  I wouldn’t allow a child to attend any public school in non honors classes.  

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I think you asked your kid the wrong question.

I don't care which my child prefers.  I want to know:
Where are you going to be most successful at?
Which has the classes and teachers you need?
Which has the opportunities you need?

Wants are a non-issue and a kid shouldn't be thinking of wants when it comes to education.  They should be thinking of themselves as in charge of their long term path and figure out, using reason and research, which will help them along their path more. 

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1 minute ago, HomeAgain said:

I think you asked your kid the wrong question.

I don't care which my child prefers.  I want to know:
Where are you going to be most successful at?
Which has the classes and teachers you need?
Which has the opportunities you need?

Wants are a non-issue and a kid shouldn't be thinking of wants when it comes to education.  They should be thinking of themselves as in charge of their long term path and figure out, using reason and research, which will help them along their path more. 

Philosophically, I agree with you, but he wouldn’t know the answers to those questions. It would be like asking him if he thinks it would be better to live on the east coast or the west coast when he grows up. He’s not the kid who would go research COL and project what sort of career he should pursue in order to live a certain place. If he could do that at 14yo...well, that would be nice but it’s not something I could successfully expect from him. 

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5 minutes ago, Quill said:

Philosophically, I agree with you, but he wouldn’t know the answers to those questions. It would be like asking him if he thinks it would be better to live on the east coast or the west coast when he grows up. He’s not the kid who would go research COL and project what sort of career he should pursue in order to live a certain place. If he could do that at 14yo...well, that would be nice but it’s not something I could successfully expect from him. 

It is, with scaffolding.
I took my kid to visit the various schools when it was time to enroll.  We sat down with guidance counselors and looked at what the schools offered, how many kids were in each class, walked the campuses, talked about their dual enrollment programs...all of the things I wanted my kid to think about but he had no idea what information he should look for.  We compared that to how he thought his education should be like.  Eventually he ended up at the small school with a not-as-great DE program, but the school was willing to be flexible on that.
This is training time for 3 years from now when he'll be looking at college campuses.  Use it as a teaching opportunity.

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5 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

It is, with scaffolding.
I took my kid to visit the various schools when it was time to enroll.  We sat down with guidance counselors and looked at what the schools offered, how many kids were in each class, walked the campuses, talked about their dual enrollment programs...all of the things I wanted my kid to think about but he had no idea what information he should look for.  We compared that to how he thought his education should be like.  Eventually he ended up at the small school with a not-as-great DE program, but the school was willing to be flexible on that.
This is training time for 3 years from now when he'll be looking at college campuses.  Use it as a teaching opportunity.

Well...I don’t see the decision as largely his to make. We are the ones who have to afford the private school, for instance, and if part of affording it is me working, whether there or elsewhere, that is also not his decision to make. We are also the ones who have to navigate the fall-out if either school isn’t working. 

Even for my two college kids, which college to attend wasn’t mostly their choice; it was mostly mine. They could choose between the few to which they gained acceptance, but building the list of where to apply was about 80% me and 20% them. 

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2 minutes ago, Quill said:

Well...I don’t see the decision as largely his to make. We are the ones who have to afford the private school, for instance, and if part of affording it is me working, whether there or elsewhere, that is also not his decision to make. We are also the ones who have to navigate the fall-out if either school isn’t working. 

Even for my two college kids, which college to attend wasn’t mostly their choice; it was mostly mine. They could choose between the few to which they gained acceptance, but building the list of where to apply was about 80% me and 20% them. 

Then you don't ask him his preference.  If you're not willing to give your kid information to make a decision, you can't ask them to have a preference without information.  You simply tell them that you will be making the decisions for them until they are full adults, without the pretense you are keeping currently.

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49 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

Then you don't ask him his preference.  If you're not willing to give your kid information to make a decision, you can't ask them to have a preference without information.  You simply tell them that you will be making the decisions for them until they are full adults, without the pretense you are keeping currently.

This sounds hostile towards me in a way I don’t think is deserved. 

It’s not a “pretense”. It’s a question. “Dear son, do you think you would like to go to the private school or do you think you would rather go to the public?” I’m neither saying, “Hey, kiddo. I don’t really care what you think. You’ll go where I dictate so there’s nothing to discuss,” nor am I saying, “Whatever school you decide to attend is fine, so long as you can give me five well-articulated reasons for that choice, so get crackin on your Proposal...I’ll expect it March 1st.” 

I’m not *withholding* info from him. He doesn’t give a rat’s patootie which school has the best English classes, nor would he begin to have some philosophy (yet) on what makes one school better than another. At this point, he would probably just as soon make a choice based on who makes better pizza for hot lunch. 

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Just now, Quill said:

This sounds hostile towards me in a way I don’t think is deserved. 

It’s not a “pretense”. It’s a question. “Dear son, do you think you would like to go to the private school or do you think you would rather go to the public?” I’m neither saying, “Hey, kiddo. I don’t really care what you think. You’ll go where I dictate so there’s nothing to discuss,” nor am I saying, “Whatever school you decide to attend is fine, so long as you can give me five well-articulated reasons for that choice, so get crackin on your Proposal...I’ll expect it March 1st.” 

I’m not *withholding* info from him. He doesn’t give a rat’s patootie which school has the best English classes, nor would he begin to have some philosophy (yet) on what makes one school better than another. At this point, he would probably just as soon make a choice based on who makes better pizza for hot lunch. 

I think it's coming across as hostile because you really are dismissing his opinion. 
A 14yo should be able to be taught how to look critically at information.  Even if you, the parent, ultimately make a decision that is best for your kid, you aren't even beginning to take that process with your child and show him how to examine the opportunities.  You dismiss his opinion because it's based on the vague notion that he has friends going there.  So, yeah, I'm not exactly in full agreement with you that you shouldn't be sitting down with your kid and guidance counselors from the schools that are on the table or showing him how to weigh information.  You are missing a great opportunity to teach and prepare a child for one of adulthood's many steps.  And it comes down to this: if he's allowed an opinion, you should be informing him so that he can have an opinion.  If he's not, then you don't give it any weight and you don't ask him to begin with.  But you don't straddle the middle of no man's land because it's not doing any of you any good.  You're going to end up with a kid feeling disrespected and out of the loop if you choose a school that he doesn't prefer after you asked him.  That's not something I can exactly support a parent of a teen doing.

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19 hours ago, Quill said:

Tryin’ to think this through. Ds is in 8th grade this year, and the plan has always been to send him to B&M school for high school. My two older kids followed this pattern as well and went to a private school. We managed to always pay the tuition and now pay for college for them both, though dd graduates this spring, so we will soon not pay tuition for her anymore. (Actually, we have already paid for spring, so no more tuition for her.)

DH has been thinking more of sending youngest to public school, mostly because of the pressure of tuition. I am not as resistent to it as I once was but on the whole, I really don’t like public school. (It is a “good” school; this is not the problem. I don’t like lots of aspects of public school.) 

I semi-hatched the idea that I might be able to get a job at the private school, which a) I believe discounts tuition and b) would bring in income to go to tuitions for both kids. My older son works at the school during break and in summer, so it is relatively easy for me to get an “in” if employment were it at all available there. So I went on the school website today and looked, out of pure curiosity and thinking it actually pretty unlikely, to see if there might be an employment opportunity I could meet. Lo and behold, there is. Executive Admin Assistant. So, that’s the Woo-Woo part. It’s like the Universe said, “Oh, you need a job here so ds can go to school here? Well, why didn’t you just say so!” 

But then, I asked DS which school he would prefer, had he a choice and what do you suppose was his immediate answer? The public school. His primary reason is because he has “friends going there.” Well...sort of. But not really in the way I think he naively believes. He knows ONE formerly hsed friend who goes there, but they have rarely crossed paths in three years. And I know how weird friendships can get in those years at those ages. Also, he knows two “neighbor” kids (we aren’t in a real neighborhood, but these kids are nearest to us and would ride the same bus), but they have sort of dropped out of view - I don’t know exactly what that’s about but they became scarce. I think ds is naive about this, too. He doesn’t know how kids can turn on former friends. He’s been largely insulated from that in the hs community. 

Also: clothing snobbery, tech gadget snobbery, probability he won’t make school sports teams at ps, though he would at private, prevalence of drugs, probability he would not be in Honors English, which then puts him in an undesirable peer group, etc., etc., etc. I have many reservations about public school. 

I don’t know what to do. I am strongly considering calling about the job and getting some info on it. They would know who I am and I imagine would welcome my application. But, I don’t want to do that if ds doesn’t want it anyway! It definitely takes something for me to go to work FT. But I may need to do that within the next four years anyway. Besides all that, I expect some pushback from dh on the private school, even if I did get a job there. He doesn’t see the potential problems I see with the ps, although that is nothing new; I’m the Big Idealist in every case and it’s very hard for me to accept something I don’t think is optimal if another way could be made. It also bugs me to think youngest gets the barrel-scrapings and not the excellent schooling the older two got. 

Help me think! 

 

Honors classes do  NOT at all guarantee a 'better' caliber, or more desirable, friends. Seriously. There tends to be a higher socioeconomic level in the honors classes, but that just makes drugs/alcohol more accessible, generally speaking.

Edited by hippiemamato3
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7 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

 

Honors classes do  NOT at all guarantee a 'better' caliber, or more desirable, friends. Seriously. There tends to be a higher socioeconomic level in the honors classes, but that just makes drugs/alcohol more accessible, generally speaking.

No, but if she's hoping her son will aspire to college, good grades, etc it makes it more likely he'll be in a peer group who also have those expectations. 

I took a few non honors classes in high school do to scheduling conflicts and it was....eye opening. 

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I have extensive experience in public schools.  What they guarantee access to is more serious friends.  They tend to have far fewer behavioral issues, and they tend to get the better teachers.  It isn't fair, but it is pretty universal.  That said, a well behaved student who puts forth moderate effort tends to do acceptably in most honors level classes even if they don't have a lot of skills.  It's not at all fair, but it's far more about behavior than achievement.  My kid with autism and severe learning disabilities is pulling mostly B's in her seventh grade honors classes.  I'm more worried about math than English.  Doing your homework is really the main prerequisite.  

My high schooler is disgusted with the peers in her dance class, which is obviously not honors.  She is very frustrated with their behavior.  

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1 minute ago, Ktgrok said:

No, but if she's hoping her son will aspire to college, good grades, etc it makes it more likely he'll be in a peer group who also have those expectations. 

I took a few non honors classes in high school do to scheduling conflicts and it was....eye opening. 

At our high schools there are a bunch of levels - Honors and College Prep are where you want to be; the college prep classes are fantastic. 

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1 hour ago, HomeAgain said:

I think you asked your kid the wrong question.

I don't care which my child prefers.  I want to know:
Where are you going to be most successful at?
Which has the classes and teachers you need?
Which has the opportunities you need?

Wants are a non-issue and a kid shouldn't be thinking of wants when it comes to education.  They should be thinking of themselves as in charge of their long term path and figure out, using reason and research, which will help them along their path more. 

Friends can be as much a need as a want.

There are plenty of kids who have been at great high schools and great colleges but have crashed and burned because their emotional and social needs were not met.

In this situation, it doesn't sound like the kid has the experience and understanding to judge where and how solid friendships are likely arise, but I wouldn't fault him for considering friendship potential in evaluating schools.

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15 minutes ago, maize said:

Friends can be as much a need as a want.

There are plenty of kids who have been at great high schools and great colleges but have crashed and burned because their emotional and social needs were not met.

In this situation, it doesn't sound like the kid has the experience and understanding to judge where and how solid friendships are likely arise, but I wouldn't fault him for considering friendship potential in evaluating schools.

Yes, there are a lot of factors. And miserable kids don't learn well. I let my parents talk me into trying a charter school with an IB program my freshman year, because the academics were supposedly better. Maybe, but I was MISERABLE there. I had friends, but the attitude of the staff, the rules for the sake of rules, the dumb dress code stuff, etc just stifled me. I transferred after one year and was so much happier, and still went to college a year earlier. 

(dress code rules were things like shirts must have a collar, be tucked in, and you must wear a belt. As someone with sensory issues this was a huge issue for me. Not to mention that as an apple shape, having my waist accentuated by a tucked in shirt and belt was horrid for my self esteem. True story, I haven't worn a belt since I left there, I was that traumatized. I have a few times worn a shirt with a collar, but only when a work uniform required it)

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26 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

 

Honors classes do  NOT at all guarantee a 'better' caliber, or more desirable, friends. Seriously. There tends to be a higher socioeconomic level in the honors classes, but that just makes drugs/alcohol more accessible, generally speaking.

Well, the mom giving me advice in this respect is in a position to know and she basically said it has practically nothing to do with his academic ability. They don’t even place him in there with a placement test. The kids not in Honors (or AP) are the problem peers. The non-Honors classes are NOT about assisting struggling students (in the public school) who will probably go to college after all. It’s for warehousing the troubled kids. This is what the wife of a teacher told me. She advised me to put him in Honors no matter what. 

Also, I have a similar issue with math because we are not doing Alg 1 this year; we are doing financial managment. IMO, it is much more important for him to do the financial management course than Alg 1. It does not bother me for him to do Alg 1 for 9th grade; my older two did this and it was totally fine. BUT! It was at the private school! They worked with me! But now I feel scared by what my friend told me and i am afraid I “should” cram Algebra down his throat so he won’t get in the dreaded low classes with the delinquents! 

 

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Personally, I would give the public school a try and if it doesn't work out, change gears for next year.

Re: sports, are you sure that there would be few opportunities? Here, the less athletic may not be on varsity, but they can certainly participate on a lower level school team. The public schools here tend to have a better variety of sports from which to choose (plus clubs of various types.)

I wouldn't stress too much about the algebra thing. Your friend sounds a little alarmist.

I'm not sure that tech snobbery is an issue at all. Have never heard of someone being mocked for that. I wouldn't worry about the clothes aspect either.

I don't know. I attended both public and private schools back in the day. The affluence was definitely more of a factor in private schools. And the alcohol/drugs were definitely there.

I'm sure either would be fine, but I'm not sure I would knock myself out taking a job I didn't need/want otherwise to accommodate private school attendance without a clear idea of the need for my child.

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26 minutes ago, Quill said:

Well, the mom giving me advice in this respect is in a position to know and she basically said it has practically nothing to do with his academic ability. They don’t even place him in there with a placement test. The kids not in Honors (or AP) are the problem peers. The non-Honors classes are NOT about assisting struggling students (in the public school) who will probably go to college after all. It’s for warehousing the troubled kids. This is what the wife of a teacher told me. She advised me to put him in Honors no matter what. 

Also, I have a similar issue with math because we are not doing Alg 1 this year; we are doing financial managment. IMO, it is much more important for him to do the financial management course than Alg 1. It does not bother me for him to do Alg 1 for 9th grade; my older two did this and it was totally fine. BUT! It was at the private school! They worked with me! But now I feel scared by what my friend told me and i am afraid I “should” cram Algebra down his throat so he won’t get in the dreaded low classes with the delinquents! 

 

 

Being in a position to know doesn't mean she actually knows. I'm just saying...most parents don't really know what is going on with their own kids, never mind the classmates of their kids. 

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My suggestion would be to sit down with ds and work out what is important in a school and what is important and possible to try to find out ahead of time.

Then have him do shadowing at both the private and public options, trying to figure out as many answers as he can.  Then go over the results together.  Possibly schedule another day shadowing after that.  This can be good education in complex information gathering and decision making.  

I’d try to get opinions about the social dangers of non honors English from more than just one person.  

That may be true for your local school.

In the city near where we are such that I have friends with kids at big public school there, some kids take all honors, AP, or IB classes, but some mix things up.  

A single class doesn’t usually automatically determine friendships, which more often come from interest related clubs, or sports, or more interactive arts classes like drama or orchestra.  

Also try to get a sense of the difficulty of “honors” as in some schools that is an AP like class and very  hard,with heavy work load— while in others it is a fairly normal grade level class with more difficult classes designated as IB or pre-AP, or other designations.  

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PS to the extent friendship is coming from classes, my son’s main friends share math and Spanish and science with him.  The latter two often have skits or projects to do with peers, so more pair and small group interaction than English.  

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42 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

 

Being in a position to know doesn't mean she actually knows. I'm just saying...most parents don't really know what is going on with their own kids, never mind the classmates of their kids. 

Well, since her dh is department head and her dd attends, I think that makes her a pretty sound authority. 

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It's making me sad to see that average students not in honors classes are being painted as bad friends and poor influences. What percentage of students are in honors?  I would guess not more than 1/3, if that?? So 2/3 of the students at that school are undesirable? I'm sorry, but I think that is an elitist attitude.

I was in the highest classes all through high school, and there were plenty of kids that did not have the best character in my classes. My own children are not in honors classes, and they have been able to find peers who are good friends.

I do have one child who gravitates toward the risk taking kids, and I wish he would choose better friends. But he would gravitate toward the risk takers in ANY class. His choice of friends is a reflection of his OWN character more than anything else.

I understand the concern that being in a class with students who are unmotivated can result in a less positive academic and social experience. I get that. I have those concerns myself.

But it makes me very sad to think that other parents would consider my kids to be poor choices for friends, just because they are not advanced academically.

I do have things to say about choosing public versus private schools after homeschooling, because we have made those decisions multiple times in our family. But I think I probably shouldn't read this thread any more.

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12 minutes ago, Quill said:

Well, since her dh is department head and her dd attends, I think that makes her a pretty sound authority. 

You could be right, but you could also not be right. I watched my oldest son's graduation last year. I saw all the honors kids getting awards and accolades - and I know exactly how they treated some of the kids who weren't popular, who weren't the "right caliber"...and I'd be ashamed if any one of them were mine. If you're simply looking for your child to get into an ivy league school, by all means force the honors classes. But don't do it because you think those kids are the best kids in the school - they may well not be, and the department head wouldn't know the kids' hearts. They might know their test scores though. 

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13 minutes ago, Storygirl said:

It's making me sad to see that average students not in honors classes are being painted as bad friends and poor influences. What percentage of students are in honors?  I would guess not more than 1/3, if that?? So 2/3 of the students at that school are undesirable? I'm sorry, but I think that is an elitist attitude.

I was in the highest classes all through high school, and there were plenty of kids that did not have the best character in my classes. My own children are not in honors classes, and they have been able to find peers who are good friends.

I do have one child who gravitates toward the risk taking kids, and I wish he would choose better friends. But he would gravitate toward the risk takers in ANY class. His choice of friends is a reflection of his OWN character more than anything else.

I understand the concern that being in a class with students who are unmotivated can result in a less positive academic and social experience. I get that. I have those concerns myself.

But it makes me very sad to think that other parents would consider my kids to be poor choices for friends, just because they are not advanced academically.

I do have things to say about choosing public versus private schools after homeschooling, because we have made those decisions multiple times in our family. But I think I probably shouldn't read this thread any more.

 

Yeah, my DD is in all honors classes except history (which she hates) and I allowed that and advocated for her because I felt it was important for her to come to this conclusion for herself. She has cheerleaders who are jerks and horrible human beings in honors and smart/capable kids who wish each other luck on tests in non-honors. Her non-honors class is a ton more engaging too. I would gather a heck of a lot more opinions on the school than that of one former homeschool mom.

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18 minutes ago, Storygirl said:

It's making me sad to see that average students not in honors classes are being painted as bad friends and poor influences. What percentage of students are in honors?  I would guess not more than 1/3, if that?? So 2/3 of the students at that school are undesirable? I'm sorry, but I think that is an elitist attitude.

I was in the highest classes all through high school, and there were plenty of kids that did not have the best character in my classes. My own children are not in honors classes, and they have been able to find peers who are good friends.

I do have one child who gravitates toward the risk taking kids, and I wish he would choose better friends. But he would gravitate toward the risk takers in ANY class. His choice of friends is a reflection of his OWN character more than anything else.

I understand the concern that being in a class with students who are unmotivated can result in a less positive academic and social experience. I get that. I have those concerns myself.

But it makes me very sad to think that other parents would consider my kids to be poor choices for friends, just because they are not advanced academically.

I do have things to say about choosing public versus private schools after homeschooling, because we have made those decisions multiple times in our family. But I think I probably shouldn't read this thread any more.

It IS an elitist attitude! That is exactly why it distresses me! 

This is exactly why this whole decision is giving me an ulcer. Because I am NOT the mom who pulls strings at the school to make her kids look good on a resume; I am NOT the mom who thinks my kid must go to ivy or top tier or if they don’t list 27 extracurriculars and have a 4.5 GPA their lives are ruined. I made the wacky decision this year to have DS do a Stewardship program for math instead of Alg I because I think financial literacy is a critically important subject and schools don’t/can’t accommodate teaching that. But now I am hearing that I might have really messed up by doing this; if he goes to the private, they do not care, they will work with me, presumably, just as they did for my previous two kids. But the public school may not. They have a couple thousand kids there. They probably don’t have the best hostory in dealing with former hs parents who come in and expect to have their wishes considered - damn headstrong different-drum-marchers! 

My issue is at I do not want to put him in the “wrong” fit academically because the non-Honors class is full of the troubled kids. But if my friend is right about this, I also do not want him in concentrated interaction with the troubled kids.  But I also don’t want to go through essay anguish every week because honors workis too hard. 

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