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Homeschooling a strong willed child


summerly
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I hope it’s ok to post here. I have “lurked” for years but never really posted. I’m at the end of my rope with homeschooling my very strong willed DD10 😓. I honestly have never truly considered sending her to school but I think I’m getting there. She doesn’t want to go to school. But I don’t know what else to do. 

She is so smart. And she can be very sweet and lovely, but school is becoming a nightmare. She can be great while we are doing something she enjoys; at this point that is pretty much the read-aloud we do together or cooking. As soon as we switch gears, it’s arguing, disrespect, mouthiness, backtalk, yelling, etc. She has to have the last word. It has to be on her terms. If she doesn’t want to do it, watch out. She is also very easily distracted and keeping her focused/on task makes me the “bad guy” as well.

I feel like I have tried everything; more structure, less structure, more sleep, giving her freedom to choose the order we do things, adjusting consequences, severely limiting electronics. I try to talk with her calmly, reason with her. She cannot be reasoned with. It seems primarily to be a problem with me and specifically with regards to school. We had almost no problems over Christmas break. She does not push things with her dad like she does with me. But honestly with his work schedule he’s just not around as much and I’m the one who bears the brunt of everything. 

We started counseling about 2 months ago because of some of these issues. Her inability to manage her emotions scares me sometimes.  It definitely seems out of the realm of normal tween mood swings, starting puberty etc. She is so intelligent but she’s also 10 and seems to think she is on the same level with me. I do not think she respects me. 

I feel like I’m walking on eggshells with her all the time. I don’t want to say the wrong thing and set her off. Just typing it out sounds ridiculous. 😕

She mostly does fine with other adults. She can be loud/outgoing/bossy in groups but disrespect hasn’t really been a huge issue. We have been part of a co-op for 6 years and she dances twice a week so she is used to some degree of classroom setting. 

Relevant background info: she has always been homeschooled, she has an older brother, 14, also homeschooled (although he did go to school for K and 1st). She is intensely aware of him and what he’s doing and whether it’s “fair.” He gets to do more because he is older and honestly we don’t have issues with him homeschooling so he does have more freedom (sometimes he sleeps later, sometimes he goes to study with a friend etc). He gets his work done. Even if he’s still working at 6 or 8 pm. I don’t have to remind him or stay on top of him. And just in general, he is a teen and has more friends/activities and she is jealous of that. But she does have outside activities (Girl Scouts and dance and church activities). She has one close friend; she had 2 other girls she was close to for 5 years but one went to school and the other kind of moved on. So I know she is struggling with friendship. She is not very much like most of the other girls at our co-op because she is so extroverted. This year she has been hanging with the boys there more than anyone. 

I don’t really know what I’m looking for. Advice/commiseration/hugs welcome. I don’t know what to do anymore and I feel like homeschooling her is breaking my spirit 😢 I also feel like a failure. We have a good homeschooling community but I just feel alone in this. 

 

 

 

 

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All this sounds very typical for this age, especially the fact that she doesn't have this trouble with other adults. Children never do, they save all their drama for their parents - and if one parent is around a lot more than the other, that's the one that gets it all.

However, a few things do leap out at me that might merit a closer evaluation: First, you say you think her mood swings really are far from the norm, and you also emphasize that she has trouble focusing. Has she been evaluated for any form of learning disability that could possibly account for these two things?

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I'm sorry. It can be so, so hard. I dealt with similar issues with two of mine, and passive-aggressive behavior with the third (out of four). Ultimately, I stopped homeschooling and sent them to school.  They have all been evaluated for learning disabilities, and two of them have IEPs, and the third has a 504. I found homeschooling disheartening (we lasted until fourth/fifth grade), and parenting is still hard.

So. Some of the things you mention can go along with ADHD, so if you haven't, I would talk to the pediatrician about a screening. It can manifest differently in girls, so you might want to read up on that online before you talk to the doctor.

I also agree that sometimes challenging behavior during school work is related to undiagnosed learning issues. Not always -- one of my hard-to-school kids didn't test as having any, though he did have lower scores in some areas.

Sometimes it is ODD or anxiety. And sometimes people just have challenging personalities. But it's good to rule out other issues.

Feeling like my kids don't respect me is heart-rending, so I sympathize with you over that. I try to remind myself to work on building the positive aspects of our relationship, which is easier said than done when you feel really discouraged. But it can help in the long run.

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I don't know if I have much advice, but she sounds a lot like my 11 year old dd, so I am very sympathetic.  Especially the wanting to have the last word and strong sense of being hard done by - the latter drives me up the wall.

I did find with my dd14 that she was difficult at right around the same age, though a lot less difficult, which has always been a personality difference.  She is much, much better now. But - I did actually send her to school for a few years.  It had pros and cons which migh be different for you, I guess one pro was that by the time she came back home she was in a less adversarial frame of mind, so I didn't bear the brunt of trying to teach those few years. OTOH, I am sure she'd have come round in much the same way if she had stayed at home.

I am really really hoping the dd11 follows a similar pattern.

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I would nip that 'fair' business in the bud right away.  You may have already told her this but you don't have the same rules or expectations for her as you do a 14 year old.  Period.  End of discussion.  

Beyond that, yes it is just hard with these strong willed kids.  I have one who is 18 now and he about gave me a nervous breakdown at times.  Still does!  I one time wrote the author of the book Strong Willed Kids (I probably have that title wrong but some very famous book)  He wrote me back and I don't recall every thing he said but I do remember he said, 'Your son sounds like a ring tail tooter.' LOL    So true.

My ds never wanted to go to public school either....the times I broke down and threatened.  One time though I told him that he might be miserable in public school but at least we would not BOTH be miserable.  I think that really got his attention.  

And finally putting her in public school so that you can just 'mother' her outside school hours is not the end of the world.  You can only do what you can do.

 

(Hugs)))))

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Many times when moms have this issue and post about it, the advice is to work on your relationship. But based on what you wrote, it sounds like your relationship is solid and that schoolwork is the issue.

You said she is very smart. Is she at grade level or above in every subject? And has no learning issues? Because that would impact my advice.

If she is a typical learner at grade level, I would try to set up a system where your daughter has limited opportunities to argue with you. For example, let's say she fights the most about science. I'd teach her science lessons when Dad is home and have her start her science homework an hour or so before you have to leave for a favorite activity. She can choose then how she wants to handle it. If she wants to fight and miss her activity, her choice. 

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Honestly, it sounds very much like my oldest, who absolutely THRIVED when I sent her to school at nine, almost ten.  She was a star student at school, voluntarily did her homework, and has honestly been pretty cheerful and pleasant to live with ever since we sent her to school.  I don't regret homeschooling in the early years, and she's even recently thanked me for doing so, but sending her to school was 100% the right choice and in retrospect I probably should have made it about a year earlier.  I'd seriously give school a trial since she's so extroverted.  Can always pull her back out if it's a disaster.  I honestly cannot emphasize enough how pleasant our home life is now and how well she's blossomed socially at school.  She could probably be achieving more academically at home, but she's doing just fine academically at school, too.   

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7 hours ago, summerly said:

 And just in general, he is a teen and has more friends/activities and she is jealous of that. But she does have outside activities (Girl Scouts and dance and church activities). She has one close friend; she had 2 other girls she was close to for 5 years but one went to school and the other kind of moved on. So I know she is struggling with friendship. She is not very much like most of the other girls at our co-op because she is so extroverted. This year she has been hanging with the boys there more than anyone. 

 

My introvert boys needed more than ten hours of social interaction in outside activities per week. My younger boy especially felt extremely lonely so he was a lonely and sad introvert. He crave activities with lots of hands on and chatting/discussions so gym and music classes didn’t fulfil that need.  Girls can be rather critical and stick to cliques at that age range, maybe that is why your daughter is hanging out with the boys more. 

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Thank you all for your thoughtful replies, experience, and advice. It does help to know we’re not alone. 

To answer some of the questions above; I don’t believe she has any learning disabilities. She has never been screened and maybe I wouldn’t know what that would “look like” but I’ve also never had any of her other teachers at co-op, writing class, or even at her preschool many years ago express concern. 

She has never struggled with her schoolwork and she has performed very well on standardized testing every year. So far, school and learning has mostly come easy for her. I feel like I am appropriately challenging her though. I don’t necessarily feel like more difficult work is what she needs though?

We met with her counselor today and she spoke with each of us separately and gave me some ideas to try. Next week, we will meet together. 

I think she does realize I’m serious now about school, and also realizes I don’t want to; I would be doing it not because it’s the easy way out or because I want to. It would be last resort. And I know she doesn’t want to go either, so maybe things will improve. We will see. 

Thank you for the books suggestions. I’m going to check those out. 

For those who have said they have/are experiencing similar behavior/challenges, (((hugs))) Thank you for sharing your experiences with me. 

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Counseling is a great idea and may help you suss out what is typical and what is not. Nothing in your post screams atypical to me, but it's hard to tell from the outside.

If she doesn't want to go to school, that's pretty powerful. Also powerful is the fact that she's 11 and doesn't have a driver's licence or a paying job: she can't do much without you!

I agree with having work scheduled before activities. No work, no leave the house. Work hard at not presenting this in a punitive way, but simply that you have to do math and it is my responsibility to see that you get it done. 

We used to have positive things interspersed throughout the day, so we'd be meeting goals before each one and I'd word it in relation to that. Not clean the living room, but we'll have snack as soon as we finish cleaning the living room. Lunch and an audiobook as soon as we're done with math. Let's get science done so we can go to the park. As soon as we finish reviewing Latin, we can go ride out bikes. Not rewards, these were typical parts of our day, but parts they wanted to do. So it motivated us in that sense, plus it's just more pleasant to break up the day like that. 

 Don't argue with her in the moment, Present the work that has to be done at the beginning of the week, when everything is still calm, in order to have activities and privileges. If she argues or refuses, that's on her. You do not need to engage. "I'm going in the other room. If you decide you want to work on science with me, let me know." 

I had a lot of patience for kid stuff like being loud, making messes, and so on, but very little patience for having my buttons pushed on purpose or fighting for the sake of fighting. You can act out and make me miserable, but I promise that I will make you twice as miserable in return 😈

I didn't have a problem letting my kids know that homeschooling was a privilege that they could lose, but I was very willing to change things up and give them choices (which it sounds like you are already doing). 

If you haven't worded it this way, make sure she knows that fair is giving each child what they need and can manage; fair is equitable, not equivalent. 

Ask her for some ideas. Do you understand that the work has to be done one way or the other? You have to do it at home or at school, that's the law. What we are doing isn't working, what ideas do you have to make it better? One of my intense kids needed to learn to remove herself from the situation before she lost control. She knew that she could say, "I need to take a break" and exit the room with no consequences, even in the middle of a lesson (she knew leaving wasn't getting her out of the work, it still had to be done). I let things like stomping feet and slamming doors slide when she was first learning how to do this. If she says certain books are stupid, tell her to find a better one, that you don't want to hear complaints if she's not working toward a solution. 

You can have some ideas ready for discussion. Does she need more sleep? More exercise? The vast majority of people do not get nearly enough exercise, and it's super important in the hormonal years. For their health and our sanity, lol.  She should be getting outside and out of the house every single day. A walk around the neighborhood if there's no nearby park. A trip to the library or Starbucks. Does she want to try a new activity?  You said that she enjoys cooking with you and reading aloud; those are both things not done at a desk. At 11, a lot of her work can be adjusted to be more active and/or not at a desk. You can read science in the backyard, toss a ball while reviewing math facts, listen to literature or foreign language vocab in the car (which has the plus or reducing work at home). Search project-based learning and make a list of things she can learn by doing: area and perimeter by building, citizen science, nature journals, hands-on history. 

Because you are doing the hard work of counseling and working towards solutions, I would be very inclined to give her a lot of freedom this semester as long as she is active. I don't think kids at 11 necessarily need a ton of formal schoolwork, but I do think they need to be active in positive things and not constantly sucked into screens and general inactivity. If one subject is a particular problem, I might agree to give her a month or two weeks of from it while we regroup and look for new ways of getting it done. Science resources for this age tend to be dreadful, so I'd be okay with interesting books and nature study for the rest of the year. If she has math anxiety, maybe level down and let her work on fluency for a while. Reading books together can be an outstanding way of covering English and history. 

11/12 is a very awkward time in almost every way. Friendships are changing and becoming more complicated, academics can be tough because they're bored with the same old, same old, but not necessarily ready for higher level work. It's also a goofy, dreamy age for many kids, and a restless one. I would absolutely ask for her ideas but also realize she may not be able to express what she is feeling or wanting. If she doesn't have firm ideas, I'd move in the direction of much more active time, many more projects, outside time every day, leaving the house every day. If she opposes anything that isn't her idea, don't announce it as a plan or anything, simple start doing it! 

Good luck and many hugs. 

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WRT age appropriate responsibilities and privileges, I’d probably just stop explaining that one. She may not necessarily even care what’s age appropriate, she may just be venting that she wants what her brother has. Formulate a pat response, something along the lines of “and when you’re 14, it will be your turn. For now, you’re 11.”

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