Online G3 Writing Courses & Supplements

[SeaConquest]

Has anyone's DC taken any of the writing classes and/or writing supplements at Online G3? I am looking at Essay Essentials and Writing with Sources, along with the writing supplements that complement the lit courses. Any feedback? My son has already done the Paragraph Town course, and now really needs to move onto essay writing, but I don't know where to go with him.

Trying to contrast the OG3 offerings with something like the Expository Writing sequence at WTMA, but three years seems LONG. I think I prefer their condensed one-year expository writing course.

ETA: I believe Bravewriter also has some expo classes now, too. Any experience with those?

Any feedback?

Edited January 13, 2019 by SeaConquest

[SanDiegoMom]

My kids haven't taken any writing courses from OG3 yet, but they did take a brief writing course with Deborah Simon over at Athena's.  I was very happy with her teaching, and she is great with the young and gifted. They offer how to write in any situation and also some higher level ones. My kids took the literary analysis class and learned a lot. The ages ranged from 11-15 I think. 

I am planning on putting the kids in one of the OG3 classes NEXT spring, lol. I have WWS3 we have been slowly working through, slowly, finishing up probably xmas NEXT year. So I don't have anything to say about it presently, sorry!   

The Expository Writing (WWS) at WTMA will be VERY different from any of the OG3 or Athena's class. Def much more incremental, and doesn't cover persuasive writing or formation of a thesis. Also output will be much higher I would think.  Weekly assignments, quizzes, tests, larger papers.  For the eight week class at Athena's the assignments were more like a paragraph a week and two essays.  Maybe similar output but with less anxiety as there are no grades. I like the no grading for middle school -- grades don't motivate my kids at all. It would probably be similar to OG3's style. 

[crazyforlatin]

If you are considering Brave Writer, I like Susan Barrett. I was just looking over dd's essay from the summer and Barrett made so many comments throughout the paper. I'm not sure I would use BW as the main course though. DD needs live interaction.

[Guest]

FWIW, Deborah now has a sequence through AP English at Athena’s, and there’s a pretty good range of classes. I rather wish she’d started it about a year earlier, before DD jumped to college English and writing :). 

[Roadrunner]

53 minutes ago, dmmetler said:

FWIW, Deborah now has a sequence through AP English at Athena’s, and there’s a pretty good range of classes. I rather wish she’d started it about a year earlier, before DD jumped to college English and writing :). 

 

Athena’s used to have very young kids in classes. Has that changed? Do they have anything for older teens now or are they targeting younger audience with low output advanced offerings still? We were underwhelmed in the past even with a younger kid. 

[Guest]

They definitely have some classes that are focused on older kids-DD has a friend who has found the workload and level of AP English comparable to her college on-campus classes. 

 

There are are classes that will have more younger kids,  but there are getting to be more sequenced, higher level classes that have significant prerequisites. And many of the new people coming in and teaching are teaching classes they previously taught at the college level, with some pretty impressive content. Athena’s is a LOT bigger than it was when DD started there 7 years ago-or even what is was when she moved to college classes 3 years ago. If some of the classes had existed, she might have waited a little longer to make that leap. 

[SeaConquest]

36 minutes ago, dmmetler said:

They definitely have some classes that are focused on older kids-DD has a friend who has found the workload and level of AP English comparable to her college on-campus classes. 

 

There are are classes that will have more younger kids,  but there are getting to be more sequenced, higher level classes that have significant prerequisites. And many of the new people coming in and teaching are teaching classes they previously taught at the college level, with some pretty impressive content. Athena’s is a LOT bigger than it was when DD started there 7 years ago-or even what is was when she moved to college classes 3 years ago. If some of the classes had existed, she might have waited a little longer to make that leap. 

 

Yes, I think that is definitely true. I emailed them about the sequencing of Deborah's writing classes (she also teaches their AP Lit class) and this is what she wrote me (below). I am going to ask her about output. I am thinking about working with Sacha over the next year on a compacted version of WWS and then having him take How to Write in Any Situation in the Spring of 2020.

Hello, Monique. There is some overlap between the classes, but they generally work better in this sequence:

1. How to Write in Any Situation - This class is a survey course that emphasizes the writing process itself by applying it to different major types of academic writing that are mainly 5-paragraph essays.

2. How to Write a Research Paper - This class goes more in-depth with the writing process by focusing on an academic research paper as a more complex piece of writing.

3. Analyze This! - This is a very advanced class that assumes students have a thorough background with literary analysis. It teaches an AP Lit-type, 5-paragraph essay that focuses on the theme of a work and how its devices prove that theme.

[SeaConquest]

Her response to my followup question is below. It sounds like I need to work with him for a bit before putting him in the first class. WWS is probably the next logical step because it has a ton of scaffolding and I can compact as needed. 

"The ages vary since the target is the skill and readiness of a student. If a student is more comfortable writing paragraphs than stringing paragraphs together, they would need more practice before starting the first class. We spend four weeks on each essay type, working through the prewriting, drafting/self-review, peer review, and final draft stages for a total of 16 weeks. I give input on prewriting and with peers during the peer review stage so that students know have correction along the way."

 

[Roadrunner]

Ha! I wonder how that compares to Blue Tent Intro class. Choices. Choices. 

[SeaConquest]

Blue Tent scares me. They sound like they do an amazing job, and are incredible teachers, but man, the workload always sounds daunting. We are obviously a long way off, but I can't imagine my STEM kid handling the workload in tandem with upper level math and science classes. But, for this humanities girl, they seem like the writing classes I wish I'd had in high school.

[Roadrunner]

3 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

Blue Tent scares me. They sound like they do an amazing job, and are incredible teachers, but man, the workload always sounds daunting. We are obviously a long way off, but I can't imagine my STEM kid handling the workload in tandem with upper level math and science classes. But, for this humanities girl, they seem like the writing classes I wish I'd had in high school.

 

Even for the intro class that’s targeting middle schoolers? I didn’t realize the workload is that overwhelming. 

[SeaConquest]

Just now, Roadrunner said:

 

Even for the intro class that’s targeting middle schoolers? I didn’t realize the workload is that overwhelming. 

 

I don't know. You guys be the guinea pigs and let Sacha and I know how it goes!

🤣🤣

[SanDiegoMom]

8 hours ago, SeaConquest said:

Blue Tent scares me. They sound like they do an amazing job, and are incredible teachers, but man, the workload always sounds daunting. We are obviously a long way off, but I can't imagine my STEM kid handling the workload in tandem with upper level math and science classes. But, for this humanities girl, they seem like the writing classes I wish I'd had in high school.

One other thing to consider is that Blue Tent does use the IEW method. I will have to clarify this with my friend's kid who is taking the middle school class - but I THINK there is more emphasis on the grammar choices (adverb here, adjective there) and a stricter attention on FORM.   I decided against that because one kid already has anxiety when he writes and that would be involve too many rules to follow, and the other already has a pretty decent voice and I didn't want to mess with it. So I haven't really done much with the IEW method.  The upper classes might be different, or she might relax it, not sure. Eva teaches most of the writing classes I think, and she seems like an excellent teacher who gives great feedback. 

My kids took the Analyze This class from Athena's and it was a reach and if it's offered again (I think it got cancelled this semester) then I would have them repeat it since it would cover different authors.  It's definitely good practice.  My kids had some practice doing essays when we did Big History, but they probably need a lot more still. The AP Lit class sounds awesome.  

[Roadrunner]

3 hours ago, SanDiegoMom in VA said:

One other thing to consider is that Blue Tent does use the IEW method. I will have to clarify this with my friend's kid who is taking the middle school class - but I THINK there is more emphasis on the grammar choices (adverb here, adjective there) and a stricter attention on FORM.   I decided against that because one kid already has anxiety when he writes and that would be involve too many rules to follow, and the other already has a pretty decent voice and I didn't want to mess with it. So I haven't really done much with the IEW method.  The upper classes might be different, or she might relax it, not sure. Eva teaches most of the writing classes I think, and she seems like an excellent teacher who gives great feedback.

 

This doesn’t sound what I need. I just usually read such glowing reviews of Blue Tent. 

[crazyforlatin]

6 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

 

This doesn’t sound what I need. I just usually read such glowing reviews of Blue Tent. 

With different teachers, DD is getting different opinions. Some want more modifiers while others tell her to cut the fluff. But that's not even really why I hesitate to enroll in Blue Tent or 4 BW classes per year. There's something about voicing your thoughts live with others rather than typing them out and getting feedback right away and practicing communicating on the spot. So the class size can't be too big; ideally 5-7 students so everyone has a chance.

 

 

[Roadrunner]

11 minutes ago, crazyforlatin said:

With different teachers, DD is getting different opinions. Some want more modifiers while others tell her to cut the fluff. But that's not even really why I hesitate to enroll in Blue Tent or 4 BW classes per year. There's something about voicing your thoughts live with others rather than typing them out and getting feedback right away and practicing communicating on the spot. So the class size can't be too big; ideally 5-7 students so everyone has a chance.

 

 

 

I would put this kid with Lange, but we simply don’t have the budget for it next year. Charter will pay for Blue Tent, so I thought I had a winner. Bravewriter is not our cup of tea. I will look at Athena’s. 

[3andme]

My dc took the Analyze This class at Athena's and I wasn't too impressed. The class has potential as the material presented was good but the overall organization/pacing was off and the website is confusing. Despite the teacher's efforts, there didn't seem to be much student discussion in the class. While some teacher feedback was provided, I felt it could have been more extensive. The essay format is a bit too formulaic for my taste and the peer feedback I found to be a waste of time. However, my dc was older (15) and probably had more experience than most of the students in class, so maybe I was expecting too much.

Perhaps we are outliers, but I have not had good luck in finding what I deem good writing instruction. The Bravewriter essay class was a flop with us despite all the good reviews. 

[Roadrunner]

I think Lange’s class (if you can swing it financially) is what your DS needs (and mine). One of my children took it and her instruction was excellent - step by step and clear. She is a Christian and so are many students (we are very secular), but it wasn’t an issue at all. I know you didn’t ask about her class, but I would add that to your list. I am going to dig around in my budget and see if I can find a way around. 

[madteaparty]

17 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I think Lange’s class (if you can swing it financially) is what your DS needs (and mine). One of my children took it and her instruction was excellent - step by step and clear. She is a Christian and so are many students (we are very secular), but it wasn’t an issue at all. I know you didn’t ask about her class, but I would add that to your list. I am going to dig around in my budget and see if I can find a way around. 

Very much second this. 

[SeaConquest]

Lange has been on my radar too. She gets such glowing reviews. What level should kiddo be writing at in order to be successful in her intro level class? We started working on WWS today, and he already jumped ahead on the first assignment. SWB asks for 5 summary phrases from a narrative to then form 2-3 quality sentences. He wrote me 3 quality sentences summarizing the narrative. It was hard to argue with that. I think we might just move to outlining. So, I'm trying to compact WWS, and then hand him off to someone else to fine tune him once he can write a semi-decent essay. But, I don't want to hand him off too soon and have him drown.

[Roadrunner]

18 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

Lange has been on my radar too. She gets such glowing reviews. What level should kiddo be writing at in order to be successful in her intro level class? We started working on WWS today, and he already jumped ahead on the first assignment. SWB asks for 5 summary phrases from a narrative to then form 2-3 quality sentences. He wrote me 3 quality sentences summarizing the narrative. It was hard to argue with that. I think we might just move to outlining. So, I'm trying to compact WWS, and then hand him off to someone else to fine tune him once he can write a semi-decent essay. But, I don't want to hand him off too soon and have him drown.

This is a hard one to answer. I will throw out 6th grade for an advanced kid. WWS didn’t work for my kids. It was very easy to compose what they wanted contentwise and very frustrating to keep up the form. I think thesis based writing requires more maturity than WWS type writing. It’s hard to say. My children can/could write a thesis based essay by the end of 6th grade. I do think they are on an advanced side like your boy, so this could be a good comparison, but they aren’t outliers.

Another absolutely amazing course is CLRC Intro to Lit, but it’s I think is step above Lange in terms of reading requirement. I would recommend both in whatever order you decide.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Roadrunner

[SeaConquest]

4 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

This is a hard one to answer. I will throw out 6th grade for an advanced kid. WWS didn’t work for my kids. It was very easy to compose what they wanted contentwise and very frustrating to keep up the form. I think thesis based writing requires more maturity than WWS type writing. It’s hard to say. My children can/could write a thesis based essay by the end of 6th grade. I do think they are on an advanced side like your boy, so this could be a good comparison, but they aren’t oitliers.

anyther absolutely amazing course is CLRC Intro to Lit, but it’s I think is step above Lange in terms of requirement. I would recommend both in whatever order you decide.

 

He is really only an outlier in science, and by extension math (because he knows it's the language of science). He loves to read and enjoys lit discussion, but writing is actually his worst subject because he has zero interest in actually doing it. I really have no idea what to do with him right now other than WWS (what did you guys use in 4th-5th?)  I will definitely keep all of this in mind for 6th. Also, just realizing that I should have posted this on the logic board. My apologies about that!

[Roadrunner]

49 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

 

He is really only an outlier in science, and by extension math (because he knows it's the language of science). He loves to read and enjoys lit discussion, but writing is actually his worst subject because he has zero interest in actually doing it. I really have no idea what to do with him right now other than WWS (what did you guys use in 4th-5th?)  I will definitely keep all of this in mind for 6th. Also, just realizing that I should have posted this on the logic board. My apologies about that!

 

We did WWS and didn’t like it. He took WWS2 online class in 5th (I think) and it was just not a right fit. Got almost perfect scores but didn’t really advance him much. CLRC Intro to Lit in 6th (it was a jolt!) followed by Lange, but I think Lange should go maybe before CLRC. 

I don’t know. I think in retrospect all it really matters is he can write one good paragraph with a topic sentence and support (by the way Lange does an excellent job teaching this and building it to an essay). I would relax. Producing an essay isn’t that big of a deal technically. It’s more about having something to say. So right now if he loves science, have him write about science. Or stay with WWS. It might work out for him. 

[crazyforlatin]

5 hours ago, SeaConquest said:

Lange has been on my radar too. She gets such glowing reviews. What level should kiddo be writing at in order to be successful in her intro level class? We started working on WWS today, and he already jumped ahead on the first assignment. SWB asks for 5 summary phrases from a narrative to then form 2-3 quality sentences. He wrote me 3 quality sentences summarizing the narrative. It was hard to argue with that. I think we might just move to outlining. So, I'm trying to compact WWS, and then hand him off to someone else to fine tune him once he can write a semi-decent essay. But, I don't want to hand him off too soon and have him drown.

We did WWS online in 5th grade and Lange when she was at WHA in 6th grade, 3 BW classes over the summer that counted towards 7th grade and AP Latin had enough writing for the entire year, and now 8th grade in Lange's Lit 2. I'm not sure what we're doing next, and most likely Lit 3 (it's called a different name though). Lange has an AP class that has been approved or about to be approved. DD didn't seem that excited about continuing with WWS 2, so I went with Lange. I want to try CLRC writing/history/lit combo that madteaparty has mentioned in the past, but I'm not sure the assignments are going to be similar with Lange's and leading down the ultimate path to AP Lit, just leaving that open just in case. With Lange, I know for sure because she's mentioned to me via email while we were discussing Lit 2 or Lit 3 and AP Lit. And, just thinking aloud here, we have some time 4 years to reach that point, so adding in CLRC is something I would like to do as it's been highly recommended. 

Lange's Intro class is very incremental. I wasn't sure if DD was ready, despite being in the middle of WWS when I started looking at options. 

[RootAnn]

In case those following along can't find Lange's class, here is a link. 

She's a great writing teacher who will take your kid where they are at and raise them up to the next level. Her feedback is very detailed and helpful.

She's just really, really expensive. But, she generally has smaller class sizes.

[madteaparty]

12 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

In case those following along can't find Lange's class, here is a link. 

She's a great writing teacher who will take your kid where they are at and raise them up to the next level. Her feedback is very detailed and helpful.

She's just really, really expensive. But, she generally has smaller class sizes.

Yes, I’m grateful to Rootann for the introduction to Lange!

[madteaparty]

7 hours ago, crazyforlatin said:

We did WWS online in 5th grade and Lange when she was at WHA in 6th grade, 3 BW classes over the summer that counted towards 7th grade and AP Latin had enough writing for the entire year, and now 8th grade in Lange's Lit 2. I'm not sure what we're doing next, and most likely Lit 3 (it's called a different name though). Lange has an AP class that has been approved or about to be approved. DD didn't seem that excited about continuing with WWS 2, so I went with Lange. I want to try CLRC writing/history/lit combo that madteaparty has mentioned in the past, but I'm not sure the assignments are going to be similar with Lange's and leading down the ultimate path to AP Lit, just leaving that open just in case. With Lange, I know for sure because she's mentioned to me via email while we were discussing Lit 2 or Lit 3 and AP Lit. And, just thinking aloud here, we have some time 4 years to reach that point, so adding in CLRC is something I would like to do as it's been highly recommended. 

Lange's Intro class is very incremental. I wasn't sure if DD was ready, despite being in the middle of WWS when I started looking at options. 

I’ve said it before but one of the few reasons we still homeschool is the CLRC great books sequence. However, I would not consider that a writing class as such, even though a minimum of two pieces of writing are produced each week. We do that class because those books are literally not being studied anywhere else that I’m aware of.

[SanDiegoMom]

23 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

 

This doesn’t sound what I need. I just usually read such glowing reviews of Blue Tent. 

Sorry, for some reason (brain lapse) i combined Blue Tent and Open Tent.  Open Tent uses modified IEW method.  Not sure about Blue Tent.

[flor]

Lange is beyond excellent. Highly recommend her.