What is everyone doing for science next year?

[GeoKitty]

DD wants to do Apologia Physics and Advanced Physics next year. DS will only do the regular physics.  But he would rather do something like Forensics instead (he has already done physical science, biology and is now in chemistry). 

[Arcadia]

5 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

 But I’m not crazy about jumping into de chem with a lab at the local university as a first de class. There is some kind of Earth and Space Science or something like that at the local univ we use for de that might be an easier initial de science class than chem. Our de is very inexpensive. So it is all very muddy. 

 

I understand. I paid for PAHomeschoolers for physics and chemistry because even my fast worker won’t be able to cope with DE Chemistry or Physics as a first DE science class. Our DE is inexpensive too so we are looking at Astronomy (no prerequisite) for the first science DE. 

[TarynB]

4 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

 

Fundafunda didn’t work for us. I think the lack of a live class was a factor. My kid also started to dislike the style of videos. Once he discovered Bozeman videos, he refused to watch her hand write slides. It just wasn’t a good fit here, but glad to know it worked for your DS. 

 

Yes, DS thought it was fine but I can see where the note-taking style of the videos might not be a hit with everyone. She explained that she does that so that the note-taking speed isn't too fast, so the students can easily keep up while writing down their own notes. She previously taught at a community college, so I imagine study skills and other helps like that were emphasized.

[ScoutTN]

On 1/19/2019 at 3:20 PM, crazyforlatin said:

Is there a lab component? 

Actually does every science course need a lab for college app?

Can you do field work/bird banding etc. at a Nature Center or park? I know someone whose student did that and some volunteer work at a raptor rescue/rehabilitation program for the lab element.

[ScoutTN]

Dd will be in 9th next year and does not like science. She will do Bio at a local tutorial with the Science Shepherd book. The teacher is great, it's inexpensive, and they use a local university's facility/equipment for labs. It frees up some of my time to prep for the humanities classes that dd really enjoys.

[cintinative]

4 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

they use a local university's facility/equipment for labs

 

I wonder how they get to use the university's facility? That's so awesome!

[ScoutTN]

13 hours ago, cintinative said:

 

I wonder how they get to use the university's facility? That's so awesome!

IDK, but it is a nice thing. The uni is a small one and we do pay a lab use fee. To be able to outsource high school science us a tremendous relief to me! 

Edited January 21, 2019 by ScoutTN

[Dicentra]

On 1/17/2019 at 5:18 PM, ShepCarlin said:

I'm seriously considering Clover Valley Chemistry for my son, he'll be a 10th grader next year. He is a science kid, did great in a very intense honors biology class in our co-op last year. This year, struggling quite a bit in his co-op physics class. I think it's because it has been taught at an honors level (wasn't supposed to be) and the math has been more advanced than advertised. He is taking Algebra I with me (Teaching Textbooks) this year. Doing well with it, but we are slogging through it at a snail's pace. Trying to decide if he should go regular chemistry with Clover Valley or honors to keep with all his science classes being honors. He wants to major in biology in college, as he plans to be a herpetologist. I guess my concern is that since his math skills aren't awesome and he moves rather slow in math, will he be overwhelmed in honors chemistry?

The advice I've received thus far has been to push him to the honors chemistry but my gut tells me not to push. But my gut also tells me to eat all my Dove chocolate out of my chocolate stash so.......

I thought that I would pop in to give some quick answers. 🙂 If your son's math skills aren't really strong, Shep, and you might still be considering one of my courses, then I would suggest the Chemistry course over the Honors Chemistry course.  As this year has been progressing, I'm starting to get the feeling that my Honors Chemistry course might be more accurately described as a really rigorous pre-AP Chem course. 🙂  It might even be that my Chemistry course would be considered Honors Chem in some places - I don't really know.  Since there isn't a standard scope and sequence for what constitutes honors and non-honors course work, I think it varies quite a bit from provider to provider.

On 1/12/2019 at 9:51 PM, fourisenough said:

What is the daily/weekly workload for CV Chem for your student?

For the Chemistry course, I would estimate around 5-6 hours per week.  For the Honors Chemistry course, I'd estimate around 8 hours per week but it may be less or more than that depending on the student.  Also - some chapter units are tougher than others.  But even that may differ from student to student depending on whether they are mathematically strong or if their strength lies more in descriptive-type skills.  Chemistry is a weird subject that way - it poses math challenges for students who are more non-STEM leaning but it can also pose visualizing and/or conceptualizing challenges for students who are strong in math.  Basically, chemistry can be challenging for everyone. 🙂  Hopefully, the videos that I record for the students help. 🙂

[Roadrunner]

2 hours ago, Dicentra said:

  As this year has been progressing, I'm starting to get the feeling that my Honors Chemistry course might be more accurately described as a really rigorous pre-AP Chem course. 🙂  It might even be that my Chemistry course would be considered Honors Chem in some places - I don't really know.  Since there isn't a standard scope and sequence for what constitutes honors and non-honors course work, I think it varies quite a bit from provider to provider.

 

And I only just realized the sad state of our local highly ranked high school. The only physics class they have (proudly labeled Honors Physics) uses Conceptual Physics course and really doesn’t do much with it. And you know the text they use for chem. Sigh. 

[crazyforlatin]

8 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

 

And I only just realized the sad state of our local highly ranked high school. The only physics class they have (proudly labeled Honors Physics) uses Conceptual Physics course and really doesn’t do much with it. And you know the text they use for chem. Sigh. 

But what I'm wondering is what happens if they want to take SAT 2.

[Roadrunner]

53 minutes ago, crazyforlatin said:

But what I'm wondering is what happens if they want to take SAT 2.

 

They probably hire tutors or do so after AP Chem. Either way it’s a disastrous situation. 

 

And I want to add that very few people here bother with subject SATs. In fact my friend’s DD was so surprised when I mentioned it. She said her friend is at Stanford this year and she never bothered with one. Go figure. It’s all so confusing.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Roadrunner

[fourisenough]

3 hours ago, Dicentra said:

I thought that I would pop in to give some quick answers. 🙂 If your son's math skills aren't really strong, Shep, and you might still be considering one of my courses, then I would suggest the Chemistry course over the Honors Chemistry course.  As this year has been progressing, I'm starting to get the feeling that my Honors Chemistry course might be more accurately described as a really rigorous pre-AP Chem course. 🙂  It might even be that my Chemistry course would be considered Honors Chem in some places - I don't really know.  Since there isn't a standard scope and sequence for what constitutes honors and non-honors course work, I think it varies quite a bit from provider to provider.

For the Chemistry course, I would estimate around 5-6 hours per week.  For the Honors Chemistry course, I'd estimate around 8 hours per week but it may be less or more than that depending on the student.  Also - some chapter units are tougher than others.  But even that may differ from student to student depending on whether they are mathematically strong or if their strength lies more in descriptive-type skills.  Chemistry is a weird subject that way - it poses math challenges for students who are more non-STEM leaning but it can also pose visualizing and/or conceptualizing challenges for students who are strong in math.  Basically, chemistry can be challenging for everyone. 🙂  Hopefully, the videos that I record for the students help. 🙂

Is the CV regular chem course thought to be good prep for taking the SAT 2? Or only the honors level course? Sorry if this info is clear on your site...just thought I’d take advantage of ‘seeing you here’ and ask!

[Dicentra]

1 hour ago, fourisenough said:

Is the CV regular chem course thought to be good prep for taking the SAT 2? Or only the honors level course? Sorry if this info is clear on your site...just thought I’d take advantage of ‘seeing you here’ and ask!

From my understanding, the SAT2 Chemistry subject test is one of the most difficult.  Most students take it in the same year that they take AP Chemistry and I know, even then, there is extra prep required.  I wouldn't suggest that a student attempt to take it after either of my courses, honestly. 🙂  If a student wanted to attempt it after taking my Honors course and they were a VERY strong student, they might be OK with a bunch of additional prep.  I know Mr. Moskaluk (AP Chem through ChemAdvantage or AP Homeschoolers) does extra SAT2 Chem prep for students in his AP Chem course if they ask for it or need it.  **Corrected - Mr. Moskaluk includes SAT2 chem prep by default in his course.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Dicentra
Corrected info

[Dicentra]

2 hours ago, crazyforlatin said:

But what I'm wondering is what happens if they want to take SAT 2.

I think most student take the SAT2 Chem test in the same year they take AP Chem.  I don't know why it's so much harder than the other subject tests.  Or maybe it's not.  Being Canadian, I'm not terribly familiar with the SAT2 tests (I only had my dd take the SAT, not the subject tests) so maybe all of them are that difficult. 🙂

I think if a student wanted to take the CLEP chemistry test after my Honors Chem course and was willing to put in a little extra prep time on subjects I don't cover (nuclear chem comes to mind), I think that would be doable.

[Arcadia]

3 minutes ago, Dicentra said:

Being Canadian, I'm not terribly familiar with the SAT2 tests (I only had my dd take the SAT, not the subject tests) so maybe all of them are that difficult. 🙂

 

Which subject test is more difficult depends on the student’s strengths 🙂 DS14 did math 2, physics and chemistry. DS13 did math 2 and physics last year and will be doing chemistry this year.

7 minutes ago, Dicentra said:

  I know Mr. Moskaluk (AP Chem through ChemAdvantage or AP Homeschoolers) does extra SAT2 Chem prep for students in his AP Chem course if they ask for it or need it.

 

Mr Moskaluk includes SAT Chemistry subject test revision by default. I think he stated those were optional but my oldest did them.

[Dicentra]

3 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Mr Moskaluk includes SAT Chemistry subject test revision by default. I think he stated those were optional but my oldest did them.

Thanks, Arcadia! I couldn't remember exact details but I've now corrected that in my post above. 🙂

[SeaConquest]

On 1/20/2019 at 11:00 AM, Arcadia said:

 

I understand. I paid for PAHomeschoolers for physics and chemistry because even my fast worker won’t be able to cope with DE Chemistry or Physics as a first DE science class. Our DE is inexpensive too so we are looking at Astronomy (no prerequisite) for the first science DE. 

 

May I ask why you think this? It would seem that both of your boys would be able to handle science DE at the CCs.

[SeaConquest]

Sacha is hoping to get into Clover Physics for the fall, if my fingers are fast enough. He will be on the very young side, so will need a lot of support staying on top of assignments, but he has strong math skills, loves science, and is pretty experienced with online classes. He is also hoping to get into CTY's physics summer camp, so hopefully that will be a good intro for him as well. 

If he makes it through Jetta's class, then Clover Chem would be the next logical step (gulp) -- probably the regular class from the sound of it. He is doing a year-long bio sequence this year through Outschool (which he really enjoys), in tandem with Great Courses lectures and the Miller Levine text.

I am currently taking Biochem in nursing school and man, I wish I had previous exposure to this subject. So, if you have a kid going into allied health, I would definitely consider Connie's O-chem and Biochem class.

[Arcadia]

6 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

May I ask why you think this? It would seem that both of your boys would be able to handle science DE at the CCs.

 

The community college is on a quarter system. Each course is 12 weeks and a permanent grade on a community college transcript. PAHomeschoolers Physics and Chemistry are 35 or 36 weeks each. Since my kids took them in middle school, we can don’t count the grades awarded and so pressure is much less.

Also my oldest tends to be sick for two weeks in January (he was sick for the last two weeks) and a week in April every year. The year long courses has more grace for being sick and letting you catch up, besides it is easier to do labs at home while sick after sleeping most of the day than to go to community college for the lab sessions. 

[crazyforlatin]

3 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

Sacha is hoping to get into Clover Physics for the fall, if my fingers are fast enough. He will be on the very young side, so will need a lot of support staying on top of assignments, but he has strong math skills, loves science, and is pretty experienced with online classes. He is also hoping to get into CTY's physics summer camp, so hopefully that will be a good intro for him as well. 

If he makes it through Jetta's class, then Clover Chem would be the next logical step (gulp) -- probably the regular class from the sound of it. He is doing a year-long bio sequence this year through Outschool (which he really enjoys), in tandem with Great Courses lectures and the Miller Levine text.

I am currently taking Biochem in nursing school and man, I wish I had previous exposure to this subject. So, if you have a kid going into allied health, I would definitely consider Connie's O-chem and Biochem class.

We're going to do bio with Miller and Great Courses in the spring and summer, kind of to get it out of the way, and labs at WTMA, if they allow us just to enroll in their lab course. Which Great Courses are you using? I found one on audible, Science of Life by Stephen Nowicki, 2013. 

Did you get the student workbook and answer key?

[SeaConquest]

3 minutes ago, crazyforlatin said:

We're going to do bio with Miller and Great Courses in the spring and summer, kind of to get it out of the way, and labs at WTMA, if they allow us just to enroll in their lab course. Which Great Courses are you using? I found one on audible, Science of Life by Stephen Nowicki, 2013. 

Did you get the student workbook and answer key?

 

We have a Great Courses Plus subscription. So far, he has listened to this one:

https://www.thegreatcoursesplus.com/show/mysteries_of_the_microscopic_world (microbio)

He is currently mid-way through this one:

https://www.thegreatcoursesplus.com/show/biology_the_science_of_life (gen bio)

And wants to do these two next:

https://www.thegreatcoursesplus.com/understanding-genetics (genetics)

https://www.thegreatcoursesplus.com/life-in-our-universe (astrobio)

He just listens and we discuss. I forgot about getting the workbooks.

 

[SeaConquest]

16 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

 

The community college is on a quarter system. Each course is 12 weeks and a permanent grade on a community college transcript. PAHomeschoolers Physics and Chemistry are 35 or 36 weeks each. Since my kids took them in middle school, we can don’t count the grades awarded and so pressure is much less.

Also my oldest tends to be sick for two weeks in January (he was sick for the last two weeks) and a week in April every year. The year long courses has more grace for being sick and letting you catch up, besides it is easier to do labs at home while sick after sleeping most of the day than to go to community college for the lab sessions. 

 

Makes sense. I'm hoping that, if I can get Sacha through this year of bio and the two Clovers, that I can then hand him off to DE at the CC for 200 level Gen Chem, which is a pre-req for 200 level Gen Bio. After that, he wants to just focus on DE physics classes at UCSD. (Of course, this is all ridiculously speculative.) The CCs here are on semesters, but UCSD is on quarters, which I agree, are unforgiving.

[crazyforlatin]

10 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

 

We have a Great Courses Plus subscription. So far, he has listened to this one:

https://www.thegreatcoursesplus.com/show/mysteries_of_the_microscopic_world (microbio)

He is currently mid-way through this one:

https://www.thegreatcoursesplus.com/show/biology_the_science_of_life (gen bio)

And wants to do these two next:

https://www.thegreatcoursesplus.com/understanding-genetics (genetics)

https://www.thegreatcoursesplus.com/life-in-our-universe (astrobio)

He just listens and we discuss. I forgot about getting the workbooks.

 

 

Ok the next question is going to be odd because DD always does something else while listening to audiobooks. She'll even knit while watching chem videos. Does Sacha really just listen lol? We're really not on the road as much as before so the GC courses will mainly be done at home.

[Arcadia]

10 hours ago, Dicentra said:

 Chemistry is a weird subject that way - it poses math challenges for students who are more non-STEM leaning but it can also pose visualizing and/or conceptualizing challenges for students who are strong in math.  

 

We have the Molymod MMS-009 set which is similar to the Molymod MMS-008 set listed in your Introduction to Organic Chemistry & Biochemistry course page. We also have the Molymod W19734 60 Piece Buckminsterfullerene Molecular Kit because DS14 wanted it many years ago.

[SeaConquest]

1 minute ago, crazyforlatin said:

 

Ok the next question is going to be odd because DD always does something else while listening to audiobooks. She'll even knit while watching chem videos. Does Sacha really just listen lol? We're really not on the road as much as before so the GC courses will mainly be done at home.

 

Ha! No. He has ADHD. He is constantly moving around while he listens, walks the dog, bounces off the walls, plays with swords, etc.

[Dicentra]

13 hours ago, SeaConquest said:

I am currently taking Biochem in nursing school and man, I wish I had previous exposure to this subject. So, if you have a kid going into allied health, I would definitely consider Connie's O-chem and Biochem class.

That's exactly why I wanted to offer that kind of class. 🙂  So many, many nursing students, pre-pharmacy students, and pre-med students are completely derailed by organic chem and/or biochem.  My course isn't a full course in organic chem or biochem but it covers enough of both so that when students do get to those full courses in university, they are ahead of the game and shouldn't struggle like most students do.  That's my hope, anyway. 🙂

12 hours ago, Arcadia said:

We have the Molymod MMS-009 set which is similar to the Molymod MMS-008 set listed in your Introduction to Organic Chemistry & Biochemistry course page. We also have the Molymod W19734 60 Piece Buckminsterfullerene Molecular Kit because DS14 wanted it many years ago.

A molecular model set is definitely great for VSEPR theory and for other kinds of modelling.  Visualizing in chemistry, though, covers things like kinetics, dynamic equilibrium, buffers, redox, etc.  Essentially, being able to envision what's going on at a molecular level when it doesn't seem to connect with what's being observed at the macro level. 🙂  Dynamic equilibrium is the one topic that seems to blow students' minds. 😄  The idea that a reaction that appears at the macro level to be "done" isn't really "done" at the molecular level seems bizarre.  And then one can calculate how "not done" the reaction is.  I've found that sometimes strong math students can rip through all the math involved with those kinds of topics but, when asked to explain what's going on chemically, really have no idea.  Which can certainly be a maturity thing, too.  We all tend to lean more on our strong skills. 🙂

And I love that your DS wanted a molecular model kit!  I call them Chemistry Legos. 😄

[2_girls_mommy]

My senior next year is asking to not do science. She has 4 years of lab sciences. She took a co-op Apologia Lab Biology class in 8th grade and got an A, so I just moved her forward after that. She did Chemistry with co-op in 9th. In 10th the co-op class did Anatomy, and this year we are doing Astronomy. So she already has 4 years, even though she didn't get to physics. I am thinking of letting her not do it, since she isn't going into science majors in college. 

My current 9th grader is doing Physical Science this year. I need her to do Biology next year, but have no idea how that is going to look. I don't know if the co-op teacher will be offering it next year. She sometimes talks of moving on. We have been kind of starting Biology this year on top of her Physical Science with a Thinking Tree notebooking science journal, encyclopedias, library books, Crash Course videos, etc, and I am considering keeping that up and adding labs. She works well like that. I don't know though. I think we could cover enough Biology like that. I also subscribe to Schoolhouseteachers dot com. I am sure there is a biology class on there she could do with hernotebooking journal if I felt uncomfortable doing it on my own. Or she could read through the Apologia I have on shelf. Either way, we would have to add in the dissections ourselves, which I hate, but think we could handle if I had to. 

 

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

My current 9th grader is studying Biology with an online class at Kolbe Academy.  It is going well.  Next year she'll either take Honors Chemistry (at Kolbe Academy or at home; it is my favorite subject!) or some other elective science of her choosing.

[Mom0012]

On 1/18/2019 at 8:45 PM, crazyforlatin said:

I would like to double up science and skip something, maybe history? With history I think at CC it's like this: one semester is one full year high school course. 

Question for anyone here: is it ok to skip history and take a couple of history classes at CC in the later years of high school?

 

 

This is what my dd is doing.  She has World History from all the Omni classes she’s taken, and Roman History from Lukeion, but as of this January (of her junior year) that’s it.  So, right now, she is reading through all of Hakim’s History of US Books and then will take the SAT II subject test for History this spring.  In the fall, she will take US Government at the CC.  Like your dd, she has a ton of foreign language credits, so something had to give.  She did have a lot of history in elementary and middle school, though, so we haven’t completely neglected the subject.😊

[mom31257]

We are part of a local co-op. He had earth science in 9th and physics this year. He needs biology in our state, and a mom who's a nurse is willing to teach it. She'll probably use Apologia because it is set up very nicely for our situation. We meet every other week for labs and meet 16 times. It has 16 chapters. I may use content from Virtual Homeschool Group so that he gets some lectures unless I find something else with more to offer. I don't love biology, and ds doesn't love school work. It's not a good combination! LOL! 

[mirabillis]

What a fun thread! I've got 2 in hs this year (11th / 9th). Still thinking through next year. Both kids, polar opposites. 11th ds extremely mathy, almost perfect score on Math SATII - fave subj math/science. 9th dd not mathy, likes science, but more liberal arts student.

DS:
9th - Bio - WTMA (prepped well for SAT II)
10th - AP Chem (PAH) - amazing course despite being asynchronous. Very rigorous, not for the non-mathy IMO - opted not to take SAT II as he didn't want to split his study time
11th - Hon Physics (DO) - very much enjoying this course. loves DO! physics is his fave - so thinking AP Physics for 12th grade. PAH? Not sure.... need to research this.

DD:
9th - Bio - WTMA (changed instructors unexpectedly but liking it - doing well - hoping will prep for SAT II) - for future kids, thinking about FundaFunda Bio though
10th - Clover Creek Physics - most likely. (will it prep for Physics SATII? Not sure... trying to satisfy A-G req'mts along the way for UC schools...)
11th - Clover Chemistry - maybe?
12th - no idea

[skimomma]

Can anyone in the know give me a comparison between Clover Creek and Derek Owens (regular and/or honors) Physics?  I have a solid-math, STEM-interested kid who will be taking physics either next year (11th grade) or the following (12th grade).  She is currently taking Clover Valley Honors Chemistry and barely hanging on.  She had WTMA Biology last year and it was disappointingly unchallenging for her.  And DO Physical Science in 8th grade, which was also pretty low-pressure.  So science seems to be all over the place for her.  She does seem to need a lot of access to real time help, which I think DO could be low on?  OTOH, I am strong in physics while not much help in chemistry and biology, so can provide more assistance.

Edited January 25, 2019 by skimomma

[MamaSprout]

Blue Tent recently added a "non-honors" biology class for non-STEM direction students: https://www.bluetentonline.com/biology

[Malory]

Can anyone compare Blue Tent Honors Chemistry to Clover Valley Honors Chemistry? We are currently using and liking BT Honors Bio (after a rough start), but I am definitely giving a lot of support in the form of reading the text along and explaining the more difficult concepts.

Edited January 27, 2019 by Malory
typo

[Roadrunner]

17 minutes ago, Malory said:

Can anyone compare Blue Tent Honors Chemistry to Clover Valley Honors Chemistry? We are currently using and liking BT Honors Bio (after a rough start), but I am definitely giving a lot of support in the form of reading the text along with them and explaining more difficult concepts.

 

I see Blue Tent uses the high school level text. This is going to be much, much, much lighter than Clover Valley chem. That’s my guess just looking at the TOC of the text. (https://www.rainbowresource.com/viewpict?pid=029567)

Plus Clover Valley provides live office hours. My child thrives with teacher interaction, so it’s been the best feature of the course. 

 

[Dicentra]

2 hours ago, Malory said:

Can anyone compare Blue Tent Honors Chemistry to Clover Valley Honors Chemistry? We are currently using and liking BT Honors Bio (after a rough start), but I am definitely giving a lot of support in the form of reading the text along with them and explaining more difficult concepts.

Not here to give a comparison but just to mention that I have recorded video lectures for my course so that might help by having me do the explaining rather than you having to. 🙂

Having said that, I think Blue Tent is fantastic.  I have a student in Honors Chem who did BT Honors Bio last year and his lab report writing skills are amazing!

[mom31257]

On 1/19/2019 at 4:20 PM, crazyforlatin said:

Is there a lab component? 

Actually does every science course need a lab for college app?

Our state requirements are that at least two high school sciences have lab components. Our state also requires biology, chemistry or earth, and physical or physics. That leaves only one elective for exploring their interests unless you have time to do more than one science a year.