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Jayme Closs found alive

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I really hope she is immediately set up with appropriate counseling and therapies.  I can't imagine what that poor child has been through.  

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That's great news!!  What a difficult path she is on.  I heard that the suspect is a 21-year-old man. 

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I’m honestly shocked and amazed.  PTL she is alive, and I hope she has as many years of therapy and support as she needs to deal with such a trauma.  Wow.

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I'm so impressed she had the courage to escape after this many months.

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I’m interested to find out more details. Such an odd case - according to police, the killer only stepped 5’ into the doorway of the home and killed both parents and abducted Jayme within four minutes. I’m so curious to know how Jayme came to be targeted by this person.

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1 hour ago, unsinkable said:

I'll be the jerk and say I hope she wasn't involved in her parents' homicide.

 

I will join you.  Something about this just doesn’t feel right.  I kind of wonder if she was suggested/planned the idea, decided against it at the last minute and the other party went along with the original plan.   

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20 minutes ago, itsheresomewhere said:

I will join you.  Something about this just doesn’t feel right.  I kind of wonder if she was suggested/planned the idea, decided against it at the last minute and the other party went along with the original plan.   

If she were older I would be more suspicious.  

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21 minutes ago, itsheresomewhere said:

I will join you.  Something about this just doesn’t feel right.  I kind of wonder if she was suggested/planned the idea, decided against it at the last minute and the other party went along with the original plan.   

Even if she was somehow conspiring with this guy to run away with him, she is thirteen.  A child.  Her reasoning is not mature and she isn’t culpable for an adult male working out logistics and murdering her family to run away with her, even if she has talked herself into thinking she loves him and running away with him is a great idea.

 

I’m not convinced that is what happened, but even if it did, she isn’t anywhere near old enough for me to hold her culpable in any way, shape, or form for the murder or her own abduction/disappearance.  Could he have been luring her away and then used force when she decided not to come?  Maybe possibly.  I still think it needs to be made clear that she holds no blame in this EVEN IF SHE HAD CONTACT OR A PLAN with the perp.  That sort of suggestion is insidious and destructive and reeks of victim blaming.

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6 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Even if she was somehow conspiring with this guy to run away with him, she is thirteen.  A child.  Her reasoning is not mature and she isn’t culpable for an adult male working out logistics and murdering her family to run away with her, even if she has talked herself into thinking she loves him and running away with him is a great idea.

 

I’m not convinced that is what happened, but even if it did, she isn’t anywhere near old enough for me to hold her culpable in any way, shape, or form for the murder or her own abduction/disappearance.  Could he have been luring her away and then used force when she decided not to come?  Maybe possibly.  I still think it needs to be made clear that she holds no blame in this EVEN IF SHE HAD CONTACT OR A PLAN with the perp.  That sort of suggestion is insidious and destructive and reeks of victim blaming.

I agree.  She can't be 'to blame' even if she did know the guy or whatever.  It is an unusual crime though...and people tend to want there to be an explanation beyond home invasion/murder/abduction. 

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37 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I agree.  She can't be 'to blame' even if she did know the guy or whatever.  It is an unusual crime though...and people tend to want there to be an explanation beyond home invasion/murder/abduction. 

Yes. I have a little girl and the thought of this girl being targeted for this without anyone in the family knowing him or having any contact with him is extra scary. Like if this can happen there is no way to keep my child safe no matter how much I supervise her, keep her off the internet, etc. It is natural for people to be suspicious because it is so odd and natural for people to want an angle to put it in the “it couldn’t happen to us” category.

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3 hours ago, unsinkable said:

I'll be the jerk and say I hope she wasn't involved in her parents' homicide.

 

One article I read said she did not know him prior to the kidnapping.

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Why make accusations toward a child without even looking up the known news about it?  According to authorities she was ruled out as suspect due to evidence at the home early in the process.

https://www.nbc15.com/content/news/Barron-County-sheriff-Do-Jayme-Closs-a-favor-this-Christmas-and-call-the-tipline-503433531.html  

 

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There is no evidence that she was complicit in any way, shape or form. She says she didn't know him at all, and she told the people who found her that she did not know what town she was in. Police have confirmed that she was targeted by the suspect and they do not think she was involved at all. 
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-jayme-closs-found-wisconsin-20190111-story.html

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26 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Why make accusations toward a child without even looking up the known news about it?  According to authorities she was ruled out as suspect due to evidence at the home early in the process.

https://www.nbc15.com/content/news/Barron-County-sheriff-Do-Jayme-Closs-a-favor-this-Christmas-and-call-the-tipline-503433531.html  

 

Thank you. This just makes me want to smack my head against hard objects 🤬

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Just now, Scarlett said:

It will be interesting to find out how that psycho targeted her.  

Wasn't there something about a birthday party the Kloss family attended the night before the abduction?  Maybe he was there and saw her and followed her home.

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4 hours ago, FuzzyCatz said:

I really hope she is immediately set up with appropriate counseling and therapies.  I can't imagine what that poor child has been through.  

I hope she gets help immediately. Long term help & counseling may be hard to come by though, without significant fund raising on her behalf. She may or may not qualify for Medicaid, and in any case, Medicaid has limits. Likewise, state victim compensation funds cap out. I’m so glad she is now safe & seems to have a supportive extended family, 

 

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23 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Thank you. This just makes me want to smack my head against hard objects 🤬

You do realize that many kids who kill their parents are either abused by the parents or mentally ill or both.

I'll be the jerk again and say I don't think there is anything wrong with me hoping she had nothing to do with it. 

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4 hours ago, unsinkable said:

I'll be the jerk and say I hope she wasn't involved in her parents' homicide.

 

Why even bring this up?  The police seem to believe she wasn't involved, and they actually have access to all of the evidence.

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3 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

Even if she was somehow conspiring with this guy to run away with him, she is thirteen.  A child.  Her reasoning is not mature and she isn’t culpable for an adult male working out logistics and murdering her family to run away with her, even if she has talked herself into thinking she loves him and running away with him is a great idea.

 

I’m not convinced that is what happened, but even if it did, she isn’t anywhere near old enough for me to hold her culpable in any way, shape, or form for the murder or her own abduction/disappearance.  Could he have been luring her away and then used force when she decided not to come?  Maybe possibly.  I still think it needs to be made clear that she holds no blame in this EVEN IF SHE HAD CONTACT OR A PLAN with the perp.  That sort of suggestion is insidious and destructive and reeks of victim blaming.

 

I think she was an innocent victim and I don’t think she was involved in planning to murder her parents, so this is purely a hypothetical question, but... you seem to be suggesting that she would hold no blame even if she was involved in planning her parents’ murder.

How would you not blame a 13yo who helped plan her own parents’ murder? Are you saying that a teenager who plots to murder his or her own parents should be considered a victim and not be punished in any way?

I think I must be misunderstanding you.

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I did read that they didn't believe she had anything to do with the crime (other than being a victim) long before today.  I assume they checked her online life etc. for possible contacts with possible human traffickers etc. and found nothing.

I think the suspicion in some minds arises because there was a very similar sounding Canadian case where a 12yo and her 23yo boyfriend murdered her parents and staged a kidnapping.

It is so strange - why wouldn't the guy just kidnap the girl vs. murdering her parents?  Obviously the guy is a nut and probably had no reason that we can ever understand.

Thank God she got away.

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3 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I think she was an innocent victim and I don’t think she was involved in planning to murder her parents, so this is purely a hypothetical question, but... you seem to be suggesting that she would hold no blame even if she was involved in planning her parents’ murder.

How would you not blame a 13yo who helped plan her own parents’ murder? Are you saying that a teenager who plots to murder his or her own parents should be considered a victim and not be punished in any way?

I think I must be misunderstanding you.

Yes, you misunderstand what I’m saying.

 

Given the circumstances we do know, even if she knew him and was going to run away with him (worst case scenario posited), there is zero evidence she acted against her parents.  The burden for conspiracy to murder or manslaughter when a minor is involved is VERY HIGH.  This case, what little of it I do know, had zero hallmarks of it except that her body wasn’t on the floor with her parents.

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3 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Yes, you misunderstand what I’m saying.

 

Given the circumstances we do know, even if she knew him and was going to run away with him (worst case scenario posited), there is zero evidence she acted against her parents.  The burden for conspiracy to murder or manslaughter when a minor is involved is VERY HIGH.  This case, what little of it I do know, had zero hallmarks of it except that her body wasn’t on the floor with her parents.

 

Thanks for clarifying! I thought you meant that even if she helped plot the murder, she shouldn’t be blamed, but you actually meant that if she knew the man and he convinced her to run away with him (but she didn’t know he was going to hurt anyone) she shouldn’t be blamed. 

Did I get it right this time?  🙂

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Yup.  That’s what I mean - it’s juet so easy to manipulate kids online, especially when feelings are involved.  Investigators know this, and preteens and young teens are particularly susceptible.  That wouldn’t make her culpable if he decided to murder her parents at some point in the exchange, or if she was raped or trafficked or whatever else can and does happen to children who are preyed on by adults in that way.  

 

This case seems to have none of that, which makes it even more weird, but I’m just so glad she is alive and away from him.  I really didn’t think they’d find her breathing.

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there was very little forensic evidence about Elizabeth smart's abduction.  the one window in the house that was open, was labeled as being too small for a grown man to get through.  (apparently not.)  in the early days, her father was accused in the press as being responsible for her disappearance. 

I'm very glad this girl was found alive after ("only") three months.  I hope she gets the support (both family and professional) she needs to heal and be able to move on to what is her new life.

 

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One question I'm dying to have answered:  why did Patterson's (the perp) father transfer the title to the cabin/home (where Patterson was living) to the mortgage holder/credit union EIGHT DAYS after the murder/kidnapping???

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On 1/11/2019 at 2:44 PM, gardenmom5 said:

One question I'm dying to have answered:  why did Patterson's (the perp) father transfer the title to the cabin/home (where Patterson was living) to the mortgage holder/credit union EIGHT DAYS after the murder/kidnapping???

I did not know this. I hope it was just a coincidence.

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On 1/11/2019 at 1:32 PM, unsinkable said:

You do realize that many kids who kill their parents are either abused by the parents or mentally ill or both.

I'll be the jerk again and say I don't think there is anything wrong with me hoping she had nothing to do with it. 

You weren't being a jerk. It happens sadly. Not everybody has followed all the details of the  Closs case after the initial horrific murder/kidnapping when the facts were beyond strange and many things unknown. I took what you said to be exactly that: a sincere hope that this poor kid will be able to focus on being reunited with loved ones and the long, difficult process of healing.

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The press conference I saw was pretty convincing that the police believe she had no prior contact with him and did not know who he was.

I wonder if it was just a matter of stumbling on her dance pictures online and developing an obsession.

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I've been following the pretty closely because it's within a couple hours of where we live. According to the criminal complaint, he didn't even know her name until he got her home. He learned her parents' names from news reports. He saw her get on the school bus one day and decided "that was the girl he was going to take." This news account has links to the actual criminal complaint, but it does describe in detail what the responding officers found at the scene, so be aware of that before you decide to read it. 
 

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/jayme-closs-jake-patterson-kidnap-murder-arraignment-778919/

 

 

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23 minutes ago, FindingMyWay said:

I've been following the pretty closely because it's within a couple hours of where we live. According to the criminal complaint, he didn't even know her name until he got her home. He learned her parents' names from news reports. He saw her get on the school bus one day and decided "that was the girl he was going to take." This news account has links to the actual criminal complaint, but it does describe in detail what the responding officers found at the scene, so be aware of that before you decide to read it. 
 

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/jayme-closs-jake-patterson-kidnap-murder-arraignment-778919/

 

 

That part is just so mind boggling to me.  What is wrong with some who can develop a murderous obsession with a girl watching her get on the school bus.  It is incomprehensible...and thus why we scramble for some ‘reason’.  Madness.  That is the only answer.  

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8 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

That part is just so mind boggling to me.  What is wrong with some who can develop a murderous obsession with a girl watching her get on the school bus.  It is incomprehensible...and thus why we scramble for some ‘reason’.  Madness.  That is the only answer.  

 

I know. It's terrifying to think that someone could see your child from a distance and destroy your world with no actual prior contact with anyone in your family. I think it's partly why there were so many people who believed she had to have had some involvement ... as awful as that is, it isn't as terrible as thinking that something like that could happen to us and it's entirely out of our control. 

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2 minutes ago, FindingMyWay said:

 

I know. It's terrifying to think that someone could see your child from a distance and destroy your world with no actual prior contact with anyone in your family. I think it's partly why there were so many people who believed she had to have had some involvement ... as awful as that is, it isn't as terrible as thinking that something like that could happen to us and it's entirely out of our control. 

 

Exactly.  And the poor dad.....there was NOTHING he could have done differently.  The guy SHOT through the front door and killed the dad and then shot his way into the house.   

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The defendant's attorneys are playing it pretty close to the cuff at this point. Other than a statement that he is reacting emotionally in a normal way, which I'd guess is probably calculated to discourage the public (and possible future jurors) viewing him as an emotionless sociopath, they have said nothing, so we really don't know much about what he was thinking. He apparently made some kind of statement to police, though. 

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I'm concerned about how much the aunt (who is now her guardian) is exposing her to the media via public pictures and interviews.  This poor traumatized girl needs to be kept private and allowed to begin to heal and have a whole lot of therapy.  We don't need to see all these pictures and have the aunt giving interviews.  Especially this early in her escape (though I think they need to never happen).  I hope Elizabeth Smart is able to make contact with the family and council them on keeping this girl private.

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Just now, peacelovehomeschooling said:

I'm concerned about how much the aunt (who is now her guardian) is exposing her to the media via public pictures and interviews.  This poor traumatized girl needs to be kept private and allowed to begin to heal and have a whole lot of therapy.  We don't need to see all these pictures and have the aunt giving interviews.  Especially this early in her escape (though I think they need to never happen).  I hope Elizabeth Smart is able to make contact with the family and council them on keeping this girl private.

I think she's keep HER out of the lime light which is good.  I have not seen anything but a few brief statements from the aunt and if she leaves her house she is probably getting chased down right now and her phone is probably ringing off the hook.   Going from no one to overnight celebrity is hard.  The authorities themselves have said Jayme doesn't talk until she is ready and they are working on her time table.  I think we can trust the aunt to figure it out and have this child's best interests at heart.   

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I haven't noticed any unreasonableness on the part of the aunt / family.

I'm actually surprised that they are giving her time before the cops require her to tell the sordid details of her imprisonment.  I am glad of it but surprised.  I hope the defense doesn't try to use this in its favor somehow.

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36 minutes ago, SKL said:

I haven't noticed any unreasonableness on the part of the aunt / family.

I'm actually surprised that they are giving her time before the cops require her to tell the sordid details of her imprisonment.  I am glad of it but surprised.  I hope the defense doesn't try to use this in its favor somehow.

The news article indicated that she had given a statement already. 

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1 hour ago, Ravin said:

The news article indicated that she had given a statement already. 

 

Having been involved in some child court cases... they would have recorded whatever she said regarding the murders and if she'd known him before. But they wouldn't get into sexual questions without a specialist, and in a less populated state like Wisconsin they may only have one in the whole state. Sadly there might be a long waiting list to see that particular expert, which is often a medical doctor trained in psychiatry and forensic interviews.

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5 minutes ago, Katy said:

 

Having been involved in some child court cases... they would have recorded whatever she said regarding the murders and if she'd known him before. But they wouldn't get into sexual questions without a specialist, and in a less populated state like Wisconsin they may only have one in the whole state. Sadly there might be a long waiting list to see that particular expert, which is often a medical doctor trained in psychiatry and forensic interviews.

Yes, forensic interviews are usually done by experts in a clinical setting. They still may have asked her for a general statement about what happened, and would have listened to/recorded/taken notes as appropriate in the jurisdiction, on any information she volunteered.

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I know she gave a statement, but they specifically said they are not asking her about the details, presumably the things most difficult to talk about, until she is "ready."  So we know there is probably a lot more to the story that is hidden in her mind right now.

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On 1/12/2019 at 6:31 AM, Catwoman said:

 

I think she was an innocent victim and I don’t think she was involved in planning to murder her parents, so this is purely a hypothetical question, but... you seem to be suggesting that she would hold no blame even if she was involved in planning her parents’ murder.

How would you not blame a 13yo who helped plan her own parents’ murder? Are you saying that a teenager who plots to murder his or her own parents should be considered a victim and not be punished in any way?

I think I must be misunderstanding you.

Yeah I wondered this.  I don’t think she had any involvement whatsoever but on the James Bulger case I definitely blame Jon venables and Wyndham Arthurs for what they did in spite of their age.  

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I wouldn't be surprised if the aunt is allowing a few statements and pictures just to get the press off their backs.

About ten years ago, DH's family's friends were involved in a really tragic can't-make-this-stuff-up accident. I was shocked at how low the press sank just to try to get the first scoop on the story. They absolutely hounded this grieving family, stalking them outside the hospital, basically camping outside their house, calling at all hours, stuffing business cards in their mailbox, door frames, and windows. The family finally put together a basic statement and a picture or two just so they could finally be left alone.

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8 hours ago, SKL said:

I haven't noticed any unreasonableness on the part of the aunt / family.

I'm actually surprised that they are giving her time before the cops require her to tell the sordid details of her imprisonment.  I am glad of it but surprised.  I hope the defense doesn't try to use this in its favor somehow.

 

It doesn't really matter.  The prosecution has a living victim, forensic evidence and a confession on multiple capital crimes. The only defense strategy is likely some claim of insanity, which won't go anywhere.  Wisconsin is not a death penalty state so I would not be surprised to see this end without a trial.

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17 hours ago, ChocolateReignRemix said:

 

It doesn't really matter.  The prosecution has a living victim, forensic evidence and a confession on multiple capital crimes. The only defense strategy is likely some claim of insanity, which won't go anywhere.  Wisconsin is not a death penalty state so I would not be surprised to see this end without a trial.

 

We saw an interview with his lawyer last night where he said that he has seen defendants with more evidence against them get off scot free. Really? Really you have? I know the DA is just doing his due diligence but comments like that make me want to smack him.

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