Jump to content

Menu

Article: How Millennials Became The Burnout Generation


NorthwestMom
 Share

Recommended Posts

I find these over-generalizations based on one person's view/experience to be pretty useless. Sure, running errands is very low down on the priority list because they are boring and take up time one would rather spend on something else, something easier, or something more fun. That's not burn-out, though, and certainly not millions of people of a generation being burned-out. The author seemed to have the energy to write a very long article about being "burned-out," which must have taken a lot more time and energy than going to the post office. 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I get it that many people regardless of generation feel they have been sold a lie about the American dream and what it takes to attain it. But here's the thing - to have been sold a lie, someone has had to have been willing to buy it. People you trusted may have given you bad advice about college loans or whatever, but they didn't make you sign the paperwork. Every single person in this world regardless of generation was born with a human brain and the capacity to think for themselves, whether they actually do it or not. It is perfectly possible to examine something someone (or even everyone) has told you and say, "Nah, I don't buy that." Or alternatively, "Ok, that might be true but I refuse to live my life like that." So so so many people today (and milennials in particular I think but by no means is it limited to them) are simply not willing to swim against the culture.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't read all the replies yet, I wanted to post my first thoughts.  For reference, I am Gen X, though one of my sisters is an older millennial, and the other in the middle of that generation.

I overall found the article annoying.  It reminded me a bit of the other cliche about millennials, that they are inclined to navel gazing.  I do think there are things she was thinking about which were true, but they were not all that well thought out.  The article seemed way too long, it was very repetitive - I did find some things that she repeating about six times made a bit more sense at the end.  So maybe she should have cut out the middle.

I do think it's true that the millennial generation was parented in a much more intense way and that as a result they are less comfortable with anything more self-directed, or that requires really thinking outside the box.  This is probably also related to their high anxiety, which all the people I know working with younger people have commented o.  THough it seems to be even worse with GenY.  

I am not so sure they are as a group so dedicated to working constantly - that is almost the opposite of my impression.  They seem to be far more likely to demand long vacation times, or not want to work so much.  I would agree they have a strong desire for meaningful work (I think a good thing) but often a very narrow view that meaningful means something they are "passionate" about - which I don't think serves them all that well.

I'm not so sure what the economic situation has really meant for them in terms of their response.  I think OTOH the author may have underplayed the effect of immersion in social media, or just living digitally.  Even though she talked about it at some length, I felt she was maybe missing some of the effects.

As far as linking burnout to inability to do errands - well, maybe.  To me that largely seemed to be a pretty common human thing, particularly for procrastinators.  I do think that it may be the case that because of changes to work, people, families, have less time for some of this stuff - there is often no one who is really dedicated to these jobs, they don't really belong to anyone.  So - they don't get done.  I remember that Emma cartoon, I found it a little annoying, and crying over it seems over the top.  But, I do know people who found it to e kind of a revelation - in many cases though they weren't IMO willing to really take ownership of it either.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, StellaM said:

 

Yeah, to me it was pretty clear it was a fib from early on, but hey, maybe that's the benefit of some readings In Marx at 17.

 

 

 

So, I feel that as well.  And for me, some of my frustration with people talking about having the same lifestyle with ever increasing living standards is not just about injustice to workers being built into the system.  It's because I think no matter what, even if things were very fair, many elements of the lifestyles that are being assumed here are simply not possible in the long term.  

So - having read Marx, being an orthodox Anglican, looking at these supposed ideals, it seems obvious to me there are several fundamental assumptions, basic goals, that need to be rethought.  If the goal is ever increasing material prosperity, and that is not physically possible, that is simply something that needs to be reimagined from the ground up.

As someone else said, it seemed a bit like the author realised she'd believed an untrue set of goals and ideals, but still wants to have the same things in her life.  Whereas I would say, no, that is a historical anomaly which can't be sustained, and you need a new vision of a good life.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

But the major thing is that the hardship for many did in fact pay off in a better life or even at least in the ability to maintain the previous generation attainments. 

This generation does not feel any assurance of that end and are rightly questioning whether they’ve been fed a bunch of lies about how to make those achievements.

 

THIS.  It was a little hard to find from the article because I think the author was mixing a few too many things together, but to me this was the point.  She said:

When we talk about millennial student debt, we’re not just talking about the payments that keep millennials from participating in American “institutions” like home ownership or purchasing diamonds. It’s also about the psychological toll of realizing that something you’d been told, and came to believe yourself, would be “worth it” — worth the loans, worth the labor, worth all that self-optimization — isn’t.

Younger people are very much more aware that the system is stacked against them, and that they are being exploited in many ways.  The system becomes more and more stacked every day, and when the next generation complains against it, "They're just lazy..they don't want to work... they're entitled...they're whiny".  You don't want to work 60, 70, 80 hour weeks (sometimes without compensation), for a job that may let you go next year?  Lazy.  100 people will take your place.  We don't need you.

Companies expect the kind of loyalty and extra effort they used to get when they were loyal in return, when they offered retirement and decent wages and job security.  Only they don't offer that any more.  I think the younger generation is wise to wake up to that crap.  Why work yourself to death and have no family life, no social life, no spiritual life, for companies who don't give a crap about you?  

The problem is... what do you do instead?  How do you have a life, a family, and a job that pays the bills?  Young adults are being backed into a corner and asked to normalize a system that is increasingly exploitive and more greedy than ever before.  They are depressed by it, and some rebel against it.  I don't blame them and I don't think they are whiny little brats because of it.

(FYI, my dad worked a 40 hour week, supported a SAHM with 3 kids, and retired with benefits.  Things haven't changed?  Yeah, right.)

 

 

 

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Momto5inIN said:

I get it that many people regardless of generation feel they have been sold a lie about the American dream and what it takes to attain it. But here's the thing - to have been sold a lie, someone has had to have been willing to buy it. People you trusted may have given you bad advice about college loans or whatever, but they didn't make you sign the paperwork. Every single person in this world regardless of generation was born with a human brain and the capacity to think for themselves, whether they actually do it or not. It is perfectly possible to examine something someone (or even everyone) has told you and say, "Nah, I don't buy that." Or alternatively, "Ok, that might be true but I refuse to live my life like that." So so so many people today (and milennials in particular I think but by no means is it limited to them) are simply not willing to swim against the culture.

 

It's seemed like the counterculture has been quite neutered over the last few decades.  All style, no substance, and even the style element now feeds consumerism.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, goldberry said:

 

THIS.  It was a little hard to find from the article because I think the author was mixing a few too many things together, but to me this was the point.  She said:

When we talk about millennial student debt, we’re not just talking about the payments that keep millennials from participating in American “institutions” like home ownership or purchasing diamonds. It’s also about the psychological toll of realizing that something you’d been told, and came to believe yourself, would be “worth it” — worth the loans, worth the labor, worth all that self-optimization — isn’t.

Younger people are very much more aware that the system is stacked against them, and that they are being exploited in many ways.  The system becomes more and more stacked every day, and when the next generation complains against it, "They're just lazy..they don't want to work... they're entitled...they're whiny".  You don't want to work 60, 70, 80 hour weeks (sometimes without compensation), for a job that may let you go next year?  Lazy.  100 people will take your place.  We don't need you.

Companies expect the kind of loyalty and extra effort they used to get when they were loyal in return, when they offered retirement and decent wages and job security.  Only they don't offer that any more.  I think the younger generation is wise to wake up to that crap.  Why work yourself to death and have no family life, no social life, no spiritual life, for companies who don't give a crap about you?  

The problem is... what do you do instead?  How do you have a life, a family, and a job that pays the bills?  Young adults are being backed into a corner and asked to normalize a system that is increasingly exploitive and more greedy than ever before.  They are depressed by it, and some rebel against it.  I don't blame them and I don't think they are whiny little brats because of it.

(FYI, my dad worked a 40 hour week, supported a SAHM with 3 kids, and retired with benefits.  Things haven't changed?  Yeah, right.)

 

I wonder at their response though.  I mean, I am not seeing these people, overall, get into political activism, or union work, or anything like that. I've just finished reading a sort of biography of Dorothy Day, and she talks about being involved in workers movements in the first half of the 20th century.  THis was not stuff that was simple as signing a FB petition, it was serious hard work, real investment in a cause, self-education, risk, - in order to improve the lot of workers being exploited by owners with no ethics.

That wasn't a small movement, or confined to one country, it was a widespread response.  Somehow though, it doesn't seem like the younger generation that feels they have been betrayed here is coalescing into anything, and responding.  It maybe looked like the Occupy movement might go that way, but it really hasn't.  In fact, sometimes it almost seems the opposite - a huge part of the issue is technology related, but if you suggest that maybe we shouldn't simply be following the bouncing ball (or Apple?) that gets a very negative response from many millennials.  Not that they don't feel the pressure, but they seem to think there is simply nothing to be done, and be scared of the idea even if it were possible.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

 

I wonder at their response though.  I mean, I am not seeing these people, overall, get into political activism, or union work, or anything like that. I've just finished reading a sort of biography of Dorothy Day, and she talks about being involved in workers movements in the first half of the 20th century.  THis was not stuff that was simple as signing a FB petition, it was serious hard work, real investment in a cause, self-education, risk, - in order to improve the lot of workers being exploited by owners with no ethics.

That wasn't a small movement, or confined to one country, it was a widespread response.  Somehow though, it doesn't seem like the younger generation that feels they have been betrayed here is coalescing into anything, and responding.  It maybe looked like the Occupy movement might go that way, but it really hasn't.  In fact, sometimes it almost seems the opposite - a huge part of the issue is technology related, but if you suggest that maybe we shouldn't simply be following the bouncing ball (or Apple?) that gets a very negative response from many millennials.  Not that they don't feel the pressure, but they seem to think there is simply nothing to be done, and be scared of the idea even if it were possible.

 

I see that also.  I know many that think it's not possible that the odds are just too stacked.  It leads to despair and inaction. The next generation honestly seems a little more responsive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do think that the US has kind of assumed that Asia would stay 3rd world status forever and be their willing consumers. I was born in the early 70s and has seen many asian countries develop and strengthen their economies.

When I grew up in SE Asia, we were told our neighboring countries would eat our lunch because of much cheaper office rentals and labour costs. Foxconn is expanding to Vietnam and India due to tariffs and labour costs. I do think it is harder to maintain a standard of living established during economic boom times especially when competitors are catching up. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, goldberry said:

 

I see that also.  I know many that think it's not possible that the odds are just too stacked.  It leads to despair and inaction. The next generation honestly seems a little more responsive.

 

That may be.  One of the things I do think that is somewhat generally true of the younger generation - maybe not exactally corresponding to milenials - is that they feel very personally disempowered.  I don't know that is about a lack of political effect, because earlier active generations had as little or less.  I feel like their environment and upbringing and education has left them passive.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This was difficult reading, it is both poorly written and full of whining about real life.  However, after a few attempts, I made it through to the end, which gave me a little bit of hope for the writer's future. My thoughts:

First, "errand paralysis" is a symptom of anxiety and depression, both are common an usually treatable conditions. Get some help.

Second, I wasn't just expected to work all the time, I did work all the time. I started working after school in our family business at the age of 13 and worked a six hour day after a full day of school, went home, did homework until midnight and woke up at 6:00 am the next day to do it all over again. Burnout? You're burned out on life? Welcome to the club.

Who retires at 55? That has never been a standard retirement age.

"Expressions of 'adulting' do often come off as privileged astonishment at the realities of, well, life: that you have to pay bills and go to work; that you have to buy food and cook it if you want to eat it; that actions have consequences." 

This exactly. This is real life, you will figure out how to deal with it just like the rest of us did. It's okay, really. Time to pull up the big boy/girl pants.

"The 'greatest generation' had the Depression and the GI Bill; boomers had the golden age of capitalism; Gen-X had deregulation and trickle-down economics. And millennials? We’ve got venture capital, but we’ve also got the 2008 financial crisis, the decline of the middle class and the rise of the 1%, and the steady decay of unions and stable, full-time employment." 

Well, sweetie. The Greatest Generation had WWII & Korea, boomers had Vietnam & the Civil Rights movement, Gen-X had Desert Storm and a recession. You have an ongoing military conflict that your analysis doesn't acknowledge or address and you have #metoo. Life is more than the economic situation. Look around.

"the 2008 financial crisis hit.The crisis affected everyone in some way, but the way it affected millennials is foundational: It’s always defined our experience of the job market." 

Yep, there was a financial crisis/recession when I graduated from college in 1989, too. My first job out of college was as a file clerk because I had bills to pay. I lived in my parent's basement. Some of my friends went to war in Desert Storm, though, so I knew I had it good. I didn't get a "degree-worthy" job for three years, but I worked, just like you're doing.

"The social media feed — and Instagram in particular — is thus evidence of the fruits of hard, rewarding labor and the labor itself. The photos and videos that induce the most jealousy are those that suggest a perfect equilibrium (work hard, play hard!) has been reached. But of course, for most of us, it hasn’t."

Well, we have a saying in Gen X - stop trying to keep up with the Jones'. Stop measuring your worth by comparing your life to others. Being able to live your life without constantly making such comparisons is part of being an adult.

"the work of optimizing that brand blurs whatever boundaries remained between work and play. There is no “off the clock” when at all hours you could be documenting your on-brand experiences or tweeting your on-brand observations."

Well, stop that (yes, you can). The best way to optimize your brand is to do good work, not to talk about doing good work.

"But the phone is also, and just as essentially, a tether to the “real” workplace. Email and Slack make it so that employees are always accessible, always able to labor, even after they’ve left the physical workplace and the traditional 9-to-5 boundaries of paid labor."

Did you know, that once, my employer called my land line (of course we didn't call it that, it was just a phone, then) when I was on vacation and I had to go into the office? Shocking, isn't it? High, sometimes unreasonable, expectations of employees have always been part of life. Part of being an adult is learning boundaries. 

"If anything, our commitment to work, no matter how exploitative, has simply encouraged and facilitated our exploitation. We put up with companies treating us poorly because we don’t see another option. We don’t quit. We internalize that we’re not striving hard enough. And we get a second gig."

Yep, boundaries are hard to learn. The economy is also very different now than it was even five years ago, so you will have to figure out how to be flexible and maintain healthy boundaries at the same time. Maybe you should also learn to have fewer expectations?

"To describe millennial burnout accurately is to acknowledge the multiplicity of our lived reality — that we’re not just high school graduates, or parents, or knowledge workers, but all of the above — while recognizing our status quo. We’re deeply in debt, working more hours and more jobs for less pay and less security, struggling to achieve the same standards of living as our parents, operating in psychological and physical precariousness, all while being told that if we just work harder, meritocracy will prevail, and we’ll begin thriving. The carrot dangling in front of us is the dream that the to-do list will end, or at least become far more manageable."

Well, who told you that? Seriously, you thought there would be an end to this thing called responsibility?

"While writing this piece, I was orchestrating a move, planning travel, picking up prescriptions, walking my dog, trying to exercise, making dinner, attempting to participate in work conversations on Slack, posting photos to social media, and reading the news. I was waking up at 6 a.m. to write, packing boxes over lunch, moving piles of wood at dinner, falling into bed at 9. I was on the treadmill of the to-do list: one damn thing after another. But as I finish this piece, I feel something I haven’t felt in a long time: catharsis. I feel great. I feel something — which is not something I’ve really felt upon the completion of a task in some time. There are still things to tackle after this. But for the first time, I’m seeing myself, the parameters of my labor, and the causes of my burnout clearly. And it doesn’t feel like the abyss. It doesn’t feel hopeless. It’s not a problem I can solve, but it’s a reality I can acknowledge, a paradigm through which I can understand my actions. ... I think I have some of the answers to the specific questions that made me start writing this essay. Yours are probably somewhat or substantially different. I don’t have a plan of action, other than to be more honest with myself about what I am and am not doing and why, and to try to disentangle myself from the idea that everything good is bad and everything bad is good. This isn’t a task to complete or a line on a to-do list, or even a New Year’s resolution. It’s a way of thinking about life, and what joy and meaning we can derive not just from optimizing it, but living it. Which is another way of saying: It’s life’s actual work."

There's hope everyone - he may have figured it out. Living life is work, and not just of the employment kind! Maybe now he can begin appreciating life journey.

 

 

 

 

Edited by TechWife
  • Like 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It feels like a lot of the response to millennial complaints is almost... spiteful. Like "Oh, you thought that if you worked hard and got a good education, you'd have a good job, a stable income, and a good life? Hahaha! If y'all weren't so entitled and naive you'd have known that life sucks! It always sucks, for almost everyone, throughout history. Phhhhtt — such snowflakes."

And at the same time, anyone whose life hasn't been particularly difficult and sucky, and who did reap the rewards of hard work (in a very different economy) look at them and go "Hey, if I did it, then obviously you can do it, too! I put myself through college with a summer job, and I worked 40 years for the same company, and now I'm retired on a good pension with a vacation home. You just need to stop whining and work harder!" As if the fact that wages have not remotely kept up with the COL, especially educational and medical expenses, is NBD.

  • Like 8
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, MeaganS said:

Meh. I'm a white middle class-raised millennial and that doesn't ring true for me and those I know. I have one sister that probably comes close to this, but she's technically too young to be considered a millenial by their definition, and I think it's just immaturity more than anything. But yeah, my siblings (and sibling in-laws) are almost all millenials are all contributing members of society that have our acts together. And that's a large sample size. There's 5 on my side, 5 on dh's side, and all but 2 are married. 

 

The millenials I know are also mostly productive people. Maybe stopping and asking "why I do I think I should be working all the time?" is a Millenial thing? Or maybe just a "it's 2019 and we may be approaching the end of the wage economy as we know it due to modern technology" thing. Thinking we should be working all the time is NOT a new thing. It's a modern working-and-middle class idea also known as a "work ethic" and it's been around as such for several centuries at least. 

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

It feels like a lot of the response to millennial complaints is almost... spiteful. Like "Oh, you thought that if you worked hard and got a good education, you'd have a good job, a stable income, and a good life? Hahaha! If y'all weren't so entitled and naive you'd have known that life sucks! It always sucks, for almost everyone, throughout history. Phhhhtt — such snowflakes."

And at the same time, anyone whose life hasn't been particularly difficult and sucky, and who did reap the rewards of hard work (in a very different economy) look at them and go "Hey, if I did it, then obviously you can do it, too! I put myself through college with a summer job, and I worked 40 years for the same company, and now I'm retired on a good pension with a vacation home. You just need to stop whining and work harder!" As if the fact that wages have not remotely kept up with the COL, especially educational and medical expenses, is NBD.

No, it's not spiteful, it's realistic.  Every generation has challenges and obstacles to overcome. If a generation think that they really are that special and that different than preceding generations - well, that's when the "snowflake" terminology comes into play. The author of this article concentrates on work/income related issues, while ignoring other issues that generations have dealt with. Saying that the Greatest Generation had the GI bill but millennials have college debt is a ignoring the fact that the Greatest Generation had WW II to live through and deal with and that they more than earned their GI benefits. Not only that, it ignores the fact that today's millennials also have the GI bill. Every generation has to grow up. I think that due to social media and online publishing, the millennial generation is growing up "out loud" whereas previous generations were much more quiet about it. At a certain point, often when becoming parents, people look around them and realize that other generations have come before them and they can rely on their expertise and life really isn't all that different. Millennials are becoming parents later in life, which may be delaying that realization. This living of life "out loud" on social media has led to a lot of comparison and at the same time to a lot of social isolation. Neither is good.

Also, every generation alive today is dealing with increased medical expenses, millenials aren't alone in that. Older generations have far more medical expenses than millennials do  on average.

College financing is another animal all together, and I think it's one area where previous generations have failed by refusing to invest in education. At the same time, I think that consumerism played into the "college for everybody" mentality and to a large extent millenials fell for marketing schemes. The purpose of a college education used to be to become a well educated person. Now it is more and more about becoming a well paid person. The fact that so many more people are going to college without an increase in the number of higher paid professions has led to expanding numbers of professions requiring a college or other advanced degree, when in previous years, such degrees were not required. After all, if you can get a college educated person to do the same job, why not? So now you have white collar jobs that used to not require degrees requiring said degree, but also acknowledging in their pay structure that the degree requirement isn't justified, so while the employer requires the degree (because they can), they certainly aren't going to pay for it by paying a higher salary.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Ravin said:

 

The millenials I know are also mostly productive people. Maybe stopping and asking "why I do I think I should be working all the time?" is a Millenial thing? Or maybe just a "it's 2019 and we may be approaching the end of the wage economy as we know it due to modern technology" thing. Thinking we should be working all the time is NOT a new thing. It's a modern working-and-middle class idea also known as a "work ethic" and it's been around as such for several centuries at least. 

I feel like historically though people had more natural limitations around their work hours, like the end of daylight, time requirements to eat, difficulty of communication.  Not that it didn’t mean an insanely busy working life.  We’ve done away with those limitations which means it’s fully possible to work for as long as you can keep your eyes open.  And that becomes the expected normal.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel like so many of the responses are looking at this article as saying life is harder for this generation than ever before.  If you take it like that then that’s why you’re going to dismiss it as whining and useless.  But to me it’s more that it’s an outline of the challenges that are specific to now and this generation not some kind of competition as to who has the worst life or the most challenges.  It’s just that certain in older generations do think our gen have it so much easier and wonder why we can’t get our life together.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Bluegoat said:

 

That may be.  One of the things I do think that is somewhat generally true of the younger generation - maybe not exactally corresponding to milenials - is that they feel very personally disempowered.  I don't know that is about a lack of political effect, because earlier active generations had as little or less.  I feel like their environment and upbringing and education has left them passive.

 

I think if you scratch the passivity, you'll find feelings of uselessness.

I'm not sure how anyone manages to feel useful when we live in a world where you aren't even allowed to answer phones without a degree.


One thing I'm seeing with millennials is how little time their adults spend speaking to them. 
(Not sure I agree with the dates in the article. I've got a friend born in '97 and my dd was born in '07, and there are a lot more similarities between them than there are with me, born in '80.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Bluegoat said:

 

That may be.  One of the things I do think that is somewhat generally true of the younger generation - maybe not exactally corresponding to milenials - is that they feel very personally disempowered.  I don't know that is about a lack of political effect, because earlier active generations had as little or less.  I feel like their environment and upbringing and education has left them passive.

 

DD is on the cusp between Millennials and GenZ. (born 1999)  Most of her friends are younger.  There are definitely some hard core activists coming up in that group. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

  We’ve done away with those limitations which means it’s fully possible to work for as long as you can keep your eyes open.  And that becomes the expected normal.

 

10 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I think if you scratch the passivity, you'll find feelings of uselessness.

I'm not sure how anyone manages to feel useful when we live in a world where you aren't even allowed to answer phones without a degree.

 

I think social media like Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn has make “goalposts” no longer a fixed  target. When I graduated from college, my boss had maybe 20 resumes for the job I applied for. Then came Monster.com and LinkedIn and employers has huge amounts of resumes to mine from. People are more willing to be relocated to another country which means the employer can hire someone from any country. Comparison and competition is crazier and 24/7 in this digital era compared to the early 90s where having a high speed dial up modem at home was considered privileged.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

See, these kind of memes just piss me off. 

'Our parents' are not to blame for any of the above, unless they actually were in positions of power and influence and used it to sell school testing, screw over the economy, destroy the environment, give succor to Nazis. The number of people out there who can blame their parents for these actions are quite small the children of the 1% ?

 Mostly, millenials parents were subject to the same kinds of social pressures and lack of infuence that are making millenials despair. 

It's 1. infantilizing (blame mommy) and 2. misdirects blame so 3. achieves nothing.

I mean, go one generation back and yes, that generation were dying in the battlefield re Nazis.

If my kids posted something like that, we'd be having words. It's an anti-solidarity meme, and it serves no-one well.

 

 

Well, I took "our parents" as symbolic of the previous generation, not necessarily directly our parents, and yes, maybe THOSE PARENTS did not do those things directly, but neither was that generation (my own) very successful at stopping those things from happening. It's not about blame, the meme is about no one listening to what this generation is saying, but rather making assumptions about it.  Kind of just like you did.  But you're free to make your own interpretation of course.

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

I think if you scratch the passivity, you'll find feelings of uselessness.

I'm not sure how anyone manages to feel useful when we live in a world where you aren't even allowed to answer phones without a degree.


One thing I'm seeing with millennials is how little time their adults spend speaking to them. 
(Not sure I agree with the dates in the article. I've got a friend born in '97 and my dd was born in '07, and there are a lot more similarities between them than there are with me, born in '80.)

 

Yeah, you might well be right about that.  I'd put it back before they got to the job stage of life though, I think a lot of teens and even children suffer from not having much real work that contributes to the family and community in a direct way.  Schools don't create a sense of competence either, as far as I can see.  A lifetimes of following direction and being supervised just doesn't lead to adults that are great at taking action, they are too unsure of themselves.

I tend to think that older millennials, like my sister and cousins i their 30s, have a lot more in common with me, GenX.  It's the younger millennials and the GenYs that seem to be very affected by a different way of thinking.  Which sort of corresponds with what my mom said - when she raise my youngest sister, she said the parenting culture had totally changed from when she raise her older kids.

Edited by Bluegoat
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

 

Yeah, you might well be right about that.  I'd put it back before they got to the job stage of life though, I think a lot of teens and even children suffer from not having much real work that contributes to the family and community in a direct way.  Schools don't create a sense of competence either, as far as I can see.  A lifetimes of following direction and being supervised just doesn't lead to adults that are great at taking action, they are too unsure of themselves.

 

School is fostering a sense of incompetence in my dd. I've had her sobbing a few times about it, particularly about her loss of confidence. 😢

It is not nice to watch her or my other young millennial friend being afraid of thinking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, OKBud said:

 

IME, motherhood itself ushers in certain levels of understanding (in addition to copious time planetside having a similar maturity effect) , so younger women would just be sort of... younger. yanno?

 

I think that is true for sure, and it might be significant that people over the last generation have been delaying becoming parents - I think that affects maturity, people stay yonger longer, in a way.

I am not sure that is the only difference.  There was a real parenting shift between about, 1982ish, and 1988ish, I think.  That' s when kids started to be outside less, they were supervised more, the whole safety culture thing began.  And the other thing is, though people in their later thirties had things like ICQ, the younger ones grew up online in a much more total kind of way.  The two things may have dovetailed somewhat as well, for a lot of those kids gaming and such was a major hobby, how they spent most free time, in part because they needed to be inside most of the time.

People in the latter group remember living in the pre-digital era, and the younger ones don't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/6/2019 at 9:19 PM, Margaret in CO said:

Whine, whine, whine. Yeah, life is hard. It is for every generation! All of my children are technically millennials, and ya' know what? ALL are launched save the one still in college. Yeah, their dad with terminal cancer is still working 7 days a week. What else is he going to do--see above comment. We still have one in school. No, the boomers did not retire at 55--I don't know ANYONE who retired at 55! Good heavens--what would they do--go on cruises for 30+ years? My dad didn't retire until almost 70. Hard to get off your rear to pick up the dry cleaning? Poor pitiful you. Hard to schedule a dentist appointment. Ah...poor little darling. Grow up. 

 

The bolded is my experience as well except for military and teaching friends,   Most of them have gone on to second careers though. My dh is a boomer, and I'm close to being a boomer,  We have no plans to retire. All of our parents worked well into their sixties.  I have trouble with the word "adulting".  It's tossed about like some magic thing you do when you get to a certain age or point in life.  It doesn't seen to allow for the maturation that should be going on throughout life -- including the scheduling of appointments and the running of errands.  Did our generation create too much of an artificial life experience with before/after school care, childcare, and planned playdates?  Three of our children are millennials, and I have to say that they don't have college debt but nether are any of them homeowners yet.  Two are saving ( our local and not so local real estate is crazy high ) and the third is a doctoral student who is renting - he has no idea where he'll end up in a couple of years.   We're launching our youngest to college next fall  with a seven year gap since the last.  Prices have increased dramatically even at the state schools.  "Full Rides"  are more scarce and so is merit aid.  She's gotten top merit money at several schools but there's still going to be a bill to be paid. We're determined for our children to graduate debt-free since I was a first generation college student who struggled through while working so we'll continue to work. 

eta:  Another thought is that millennials and subsequent generations have a skewed sense of what is a want and what is a need.   I recently heard someone remark that cable bills are as much as car notes.  I think this statement is true for most  generations -- our parents wants become our needs but millennials and others since have wants that never even existed as a previous generations needs. 

Edited by Starfish
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Arcadia said:

 

 

I think social media like Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn has make “goalposts” no longer a fixed  target. When I graduated from college, my boss had maybe 20 resumes for the job I applied for. Then came Monster.com and LinkedIn and employers has huge amounts of resumes to mine from. People are more willing to be relocated to another country which means the employer can hire someone from any country. Comparison and competition is crazier and 24/7 in this digital era compared to the early 90s where having a high speed dial up modem at home was considered privileged.

Yep dhs company has a rating system where applicants get points for various stuff and only the ones that tick the most boxes get through out of hundreds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Bluegoat said:

 

I wonder at their response though.  I mean, I am not seeing these people, overall, get into political activism, or union work, or anything like that. I've just finished reading a sort of biography of Dorothy Day, and she talks about being involved in workers movements in the first half of the 20th century.  THis was not stuff that was simple as signing a FB petition, it was serious hard work, real investment in a cause, self-education, risk, - in order to improve the lot of workers being exploited by owners with no ethics.

That wasn't a small movement, or confined to one country, it was a widespread response.  Somehow though, it doesn't seem like the younger generation that feels they have been betrayed here is coalescing into anything, and responding.  It maybe looked like the Occupy movement might go that way, but it really hasn't.  In fact, sometimes it almost seems the opposite - a huge part of the issue is technology related, but if you suggest that maybe we shouldn't simply be following the bouncing ball (or Apple?) that gets a very negative response from many millennials.  Not that they don't feel the pressure, but they seem to think there is simply nothing to be done, and be scared of the idea even if it were possible.

For one thing the unions are corrupt.  They are often just as much about personal gain not really a grass roots movement. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, StellaM said:

 

Yeah, because there are nasty people in all generations. I would best my last dollar in 20 years time there will be some rotten millenials complaining aobut 'youth these days'. 

Lol ... even Solomon said “it isn’t wise to ask why is everything worse than it used to be” - and that was a couple of thousand years ago.  

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have "Allentown" running through my head 

..."Well we're waiting here in Allentown, For the Pennsylvania we never found, For promises our teachers gave, if we worked hard, if we behaved.  But the graduations hang on the wall, they never really helped us at all.  They never taught us what was real ..."

...."every child had a pretty good shot to get at least as far their old man got.  But something happened on the way to that place ..."

In 1982, the first Millenials were babies and the oldest Gen-Xers were still in high school.  Billy Joel was singing for and about the Boomers.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

For your reading pleasure The 2,500-Year Old History of Adults Blaming the Younger Generation

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Margaret in CO said:

I'm seeing a difference with Generation Z kids (my last three could be considered Z rather than Millennial by some measures). Some count from 93 on to 2010 or so. Z tend to be more focused on security and risk aversion. "Research from the Annie E. Casey Foundation conducted in 2016 found Generation Z youth had lower teen pregnancy rates, less substance abuse, and higher on-time high school graduation rates compared with Millennials." I definitely see a difference in the last few years of graduating classes avoiding student debt. 

Parents who saw how things were going taught them differently. The crash in 2008 was early enough in DDs life we had time to start talking to her early about career plans that would actually pay, and about not getting into debt. It was brought up often enough that it started eliciting the eye roll (right up there with safe sex, and not leaving your drink at parties... ) But she did take it seriously.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/7/2019 at 8:26 PM, goldberry said:

Parents who saw how things were going taught them differently. The crash in 2008 was early enough in DDs life we had time to start talking to her early about career plans that would actually pay, and about not getting into debt. It was brought up often enough that it started eliciting the eye roll (right up there with safe sex, and not leaving your drink at parties... ) But she did take it seriously.

My

Edited by Frances
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm finding this fascinating. I'm right at the end of the Boomers and first of Gen X. I did all the things I was "supposed" to do like go to college, get married, and work hard. DH and I have degrees and have worked as professionals, but life has been hard. Our profession is very sensitive to what is happening in the economy and we lived below the poverty level when our millennial children were young and haven't done better than our parents. We're in our 50's now with no hope of retirement in the next couple of decades. DH works 50+ hours a week in a salaried job with no benefits. Our millennial children however are doing very well. Sure they have college debt, but the oldest came out of college and immediately got jobs that pay more than dh has ever made after 30+ years in his profession plus benefits that we can only dream of having. My two oldest, both still in their 20's, own houses that are bigger than ours and as least as nice. They do what they need to do and are far more mature and competent about day to day stuff than I was at their age. Poor little millennials are too burnt out to do their errands. Give me a break! They're always working? My millennials all have the most flexible jobs I've ever seen and use their off work time to eat out, cook amazing meals, brew beer, make wine, fix free broken hot tubs and electronics, remodel their houses, go camping, and a bunch of other interesting things. I really HATE whining and this whole article is nothing more than a pity party because some entitled kids grew up and found out that adult life is hard. This kind of article is exactly why millenials have a bad reputation.

Edited by mom2scouts
  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Sherry in OH said:

I have "Allentown" running through my head 

..."Well we're waiting here in Allentown, For the Pennsylvania we never found, For promises our teachers gave, if we worked hard, if we behaved.  But the graduations hang on the wall, they never really helped us at all.  They never taught us what was real ..."

...."every child had a pretty good shot to get at least as far their old man got.  But something happened on the way to that place ..."

In 1982, the first Millenials were babies and the oldest Gen-Xers were still in high school.  Billy Joel was singing for and about the Boomers.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

For your reading pleasure The 2,500-Year Old History of Adults Blaming the Younger Generation

Yep. DH and I are pretty much the people BJ was singing about. We're on the tail end of the Boomers. But the younger folks--or at least the ones who have no good grasp of history (or maybe just really, really need to blame someone for their own struggles)--seem to think we had it made and ruined their world.

 

6 hours ago, mom2scouts said:

I'm finding this fascinating. I'm right at the end of the Boomers and first of Gen X. I did all the things I was "supposed" to do like go to college, get married, and work hard. DH and I have degrees and have worked as professionals, but life has been hard. Our profession is very sensitive to what is happening in the economy and we lived below the poverty level when our millennial children were young and haven't done better than our parents. We're in our 50's now with no hope of retirement in the next couple of decades. DH works 50+ hours a week in a salaried job with no benefits. Our millennial children however are doing very well. Sure they have college debt, but the oldest came out of college and immediately got jobs that pay more than dh has ever made after 30+ years in his profession plus benefits that we can only dream of having. My two oldest, both still in their 20's, own houses that are bigger than ours and as least as nice. They do what they need to do and are far more mature and competent about day to day stuff than I was at their age. Poor little millennials are too burnt out to do their errands. Give me a break! They're always working? My millennials all have the most flexible jobs I've ever seen and use their off work time to eat out, cook amazing meals, brew beer, make wine, fix free broken hot tubs and electronics, remodel their houses, go camping, and a bunch of other interesting things. I really HATE whining and this whole article is nothing more than a pity party because some entitled kids grew up and found out that adult life is hard. This kind of article is exactly why millenials have a bad reputation.

Ditto.

I'm reminded of my niece, who is a millenial, at Christmas brunch a year ago. We were catching up with her on how her job was going, and how getting used to the working world was. The first words out of her mouth were: "Adulting sucks." And she's not really a whiner. She was pretty much laughing at herself and how she'd taken the "easyness" of non-working life for granted.

The millenials we know are doing fine for the most part. Some have struggled due to lifestyle choices (unplanned pregnancies mostly, but also some who didn't take college seriously enough), but are now getting things together and AFAIK don't blame anyone else for their own bad decisions. Others, like the niece I mentioned above, are excelling. Oldest DS just graduated in May and has a fabulous job working for a large, very well known tech company. He makes a lot of money, has unbelievable benefits and can come and go from work as he chooses, or work from home whenever he wants. He had two weeks of paid vacation over the holidays. Nobody from work emailed, texted or called him (I know because he spent those two weeks with us). Stuff DH and I couldn't have begun to imagine in our wildest dreams when we were beginning our careers. Shoot, way back in 1983 I had a boss who thought nothing of calling me up until 11:00 p.m., anytime on a weekend or holiday, etc. I rarely made it through a weekend w/o multiple calls. Two weeks paid time off over the holidays and NO contact? That was unbelievable to me and DH. But we were very happy for DS.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Pawz4me said:

Yep. DH and I are pretty much the people BJ was singing about. We're on the tail end of the Boomers. But the younger folks--or at least the ones who have no good grasp of history (or maybe just really, really need to blame someone for their own struggles)--seem to think we had it made and ruined their world.

 

 

Every generation has challenges. I'm so over young people telling me how we screwed everything up. We're tail-end Boomers here, too. Don't talk to me about job security, etc. My parents could count on a pension and social security. They had the same employer their whole lives. Didn't have to relocate halfway across the country just to get a job. Not us. Our hopes for retirement are...sketchy at best.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

For one thing the unions are corrupt.  They are often just as much about personal gain not really a grass roots movement. 

 

That's a huge generalisation.  And all institutions are prone to problems because of people who covet power.  It doesn't mean they don't have an important role.

But my point really was that it isn't like this kind of evil among large employers is new.  It is not all that different than the way it was before we began to regulate certain business practices by law.  History shows us that for a variety of reasons, trusting to people's good nature does not work.  Not only do the worst make the most money and so rise to the top, they feel justified in their actions because the society comes to believe the purpose of labour is to enrich business owners.

The union movement didn't spring up because workers wanted to be assholes, it sprang up because they were being exploited and government was not willing to do anything about it.  And it had an effect - many of the labour laws we think of as basic came out of the labour movement.  In more recent years we've been told that because of such laws, the union movement is no longer needed, and gosh, doesn't it violate individual freedoms?  Except - as it has lost a lot of its power, somehow workers rights are being eroded quite quickly, new problems like zero hours contracts are not really addressed, and governments are actually abolishing many of the old workers rights.  And who benefits and what is the result - a return toward the pre-labour movement type of workplace.

There were many different elements of the workers movement - small c conservative types, quite a few Catholic movements like the Catholic Workers movement or Antigonish  movement, various sorts of communists and socialists.  To say "unions are corrupt"  is just not seeing the breadth of that or what they did in terms of raising awareness, education, and so on.

People are quite rightly upset about the workplace now, worried about automation, that all gains in productivity are going to the 1%.  Millennials are right to look at this and think things are getting worse for them. But - I don't see, in the west, many of them taking actions even slightly comparable to the people who were involved in the labour movement around the turn of the last century, trying to look at underlying causes and structural issues.  Interestingly the people who do seem to be taking political action are older and often dismissed as retrograde and conservatives (implied that is bad.)

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Bluegoat said:

 

 

People are quite rightly upset about the workplace now, worried about automation, that all gains in productivity are going to the 1%.  Millennials are right to look at this and think things are getting worse for them. But - I don't see, in the west, many of them taking actions even slightly comparable to the people who were involved in the labour movement around the turn of the last century, trying to look at underlying causes and structural issues.  Interestingly the people who do seem to be taking political action are older and often dismissed as retrograde and conservatives (implied that is bad.)

I quoted this last part because it is what I want to address specifically.

My experience with Millenials is that they do feel passionately about this issue, and they do the work. It's just that our media doesn't report it. They are so darn determined to bash this generation that they will not run stories about the work that they are doing.

Local case. U of MI has a long history in the last decade of really abusing their lecturer's, seriously...work them full time, refuse to give them full benefits, have them lecturing at three different campuses and then claim they aren't full time at any single campus therefore deserve the low pay and no benefits, etc. My son and thousands of students demonstrated for three days on behalf of the lecturer's during U of MI contract negotiations. They did not go to class, and were willing to pay the consequences - but since the professors were grateful for their activism, they let them make up the work, and speak in class about their activism. They held a fundraiser prior to the demonstration to get matching strike t-shirts. A local paper...just one...came and interviewed anyone. Just one. There was a photo, a caption, and NO STORY. But, they won the day. It worked. The contract negotiation ended in a large pay increase plus the addition of health benefits for the lecturers.

And the thing is, as I've walked around WMU, NMU, and U of MI - the three campuses where I currently have millenials in school - the civic groups are constantly advertising activism, protests, email blitzes, letter writing campaigns, you name it, and they are well attended. Many, many students involved. Now maybe this a later millenial thing, my kids are the tail end of that generation. But they, their friends, their TA's who would be of that generation, their younger professors are very involved and active. In the Flint area, one could never make the case that millenials don't get involved in the same way in labor or other causes...not when you see them out there demanding the big three automakers and their subsidiaries be held accountable for the water pollution, handing out gallons and bottles of water, hugging victims, demonstrating in Lansing, email blitzing their senators, and then when their senior senator shows up to speak, filling the auditorium to capacity with students all carrying signs, the hallways, sidewalks, and parking lots filled with those that couldn't get a spot inside. When MSU tried to duck and cover on the Nassar issue, students by the many thousands protested, joined sit ins, made it nearly impossible for the administration to function. There was a near riot when John Engler was posted to the interim president position. Between grad students and undergrad as well as the younger teaching staff, it was a massive attempt to hold the administration accountable. It was barely mentioned in the national media, and totally downplayed as if the Millenial response was pretty much nothing. In case no one noticed, real journalism appears to be entirely broken, nearly extinct.

Funnily enough, while people bemoan the millenials for not being activists, the millenials pretty much view their parents Gen X as the lazy butt generation that couldn't be motivated to care about squat, LOL. Generational hate...alive and well! To be honest, I do have to admit that I think my kids are better at activism than I ever was at that same age.

Of course, all of this is very regional too. What is happening in one part of the country, may not be a thing in another.

Between the climate crisis, the plastic ocean, the poison water, destruction of rainforest, and stagnating wages in the face of serious inflation on top of everything else they've inherited, I truly believe Millenials and GenY have a lot more to worry about than my Gen X peers and I ever did at the same age. But that's also perception, and perceptions are very subjective things.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


There is one way in which the young-ins are getting the shaft.   Taxes.   This isn't a generational thing but it gets worse for those farther away from the baby boomers.  Their part of the national debt, and the unfunded social security debt is obscene.   

When I was doing unskilled labor, it was pre-cell phones which I am thankful for now.  My Grandmother REFUSED to get an answering machine because she thought that only people who didn't pay their bills used one.  She also insisted that Grandpa worked because otherwise he wouldn't leave the recliner.  He worked in a grocery store and he was always working the crappy hours because the managers knew that they could call him and make him come in when he wasn't scheduled.  That was because he would answer the phone when everyone else let it go to voice mail.   I can see how everyone would have that problem now.  

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, there are definitly things every generation deals with and certainly some that the younger will have that we didn't. 

We never practiced a shooting drill once in school.

We have been at war since my oldest was a baby and before my other teens were even born! Though children whose parents were deployed felt it greatly the rest will still feel it in taxes and loss of resources. I know there were many other wars before but this has become perpetual.

Climate change and strained resources. I'm sad my children will never experience my home state how I did. I realize things are always changing. I'm not sure that in the past it was this fast.

 

A shift from real community to virtual community. And honestly, virtual communities are NOT a replacement for real community even if perhaps they are an ok supplement. My children have not experienced this. In fact most of their friends aren't on social media and we work at lot on IRL friends in general but I know that isn't every child's reality and I do believe it contributes to a lot of mental health issues although I realize there are a myriad of influences and issues surrounding mental health. 

 

I don't blame the upcoming generation for being somewhat risk adverse!

I also don't see that job pay and how much money someone has will fix these and I don't think that they have it particularly hard when it comes to amount of work or material possessions compared to previous generations but there seems to be a lot of intangible yet fundamental to well being things that a lot of the next generation is missing and when I stop to think about it I wonder, maybe they really do have it harder. 

P.S. Though I don't think they yet have had it more difficult economically, I do worry about the amount of debt and unfunded liabilities that we are leaving our children with.

 

Edited by frogger
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Pawz4me said:

But some of us did “duck and cover” drills. And I bet none of us was clueless enough to believe ducking and covering was going to protect us from a nuclear bomb. 

We did duck and cover, and that was LATE into the years in which they were being done. I am pretty certain it was just because we had a whole bunch of older teachers near retirement, and so it was kind of a habit. We used to giggle while under the desks and tables that we were just logs for the fire. Our whole room had wood floors, wood tables, wood chairs...so sure teacher, sure we 5th graders believe that in a mushroom cloud of fire, this will protect us! For sure.

Seriously. I don't know who comes up with this stuff. Most kids are just not that clueless.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I went to high school in the early 80's and we had a student walk into the school with a rifle. He was angry at a teacher and planned to go to her class and shoot her. Fortunately, a teacher familiar with guns was able to sneak up on him and grab the gun out of his hands. There was also a school shooting in the mid 80's that killed or wounded over a dozen people. I still believe the extensive news coverage we now see makes it worse.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, OKBud said:

 

Guys. You did duck and cover drills and nothing ever happened. (thank God!!)

...

 

I suspect that in the middle of the cold war the experts estimate of the probability of an all-out nuclear war in the next 20 years would be a MUCH higher number than the odds of a kid experiencing a school shooting.  That is with school shootings being nothing new.  DH and I, Gen X'ers, were both at school during a school shooting in different schools.   School didn't even stop, and it wasn't big news.  DH was restrained from entering a classroom because they hadn't cleaned up the mess yet.  I also genuinely thought as a teen that Nuclear War was happening that moment.   I woke up on a weekend morning to the sound of the nuclear alarm.  I remember thinking, "I thought they said there wasn't a chance anymore."  Then I fell back asleep.  So, I don't buy the idea that Millennial's have more to fear.  

 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, OKBud said:

 

Guys. You did duck and cover drills and nothing ever happened. (thank God!!)

Younger people have grown up legitimately afraid to be randomly murdered at school because it DOES happen.

I think you probably have no true understanding of the level of anxiety about nuclear war some of us experienced. I'm 56 years old and I still vividly remember many nights, laying awake in my bed, worrying about what could happen. The worst was imagining if the bombs fell while I was at school, I survived but couldn't make it home to my parents, to see if they'd made it. No, of course it never happened. But we didn't have the benefit of hindsight. We were living in the "right then" and the danger seemed very, very real.

Edited by Pawz4me
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, shawthorne44 said:

 

I suspect that in the middle of the cold war the experts estimate of the probability of an all-out nuclear war in the next 20 years would be a MUCH higher number than the odds of a kid experiencing a school shooting.  That is with school shootings being nothing new.  DH and I, Gen X'ers, were both at school during a school shooting in different schools.   School didn't even stop, and it wasn't big news.  DH was restrained from entering a classroom because they hadn't cleaned up the mess yet.  I also genuinely thought as a teen that Nuclear War was happening that moment.   I woke up on a weekend morning to the sound of the nuclear alarm.  I remember thinking, "I thought they said there wasn't a chance anymore."  Then I fell back asleep.  So, I don't buy the idea that Millennial's have more to fear.  

 

 

Yes, there were school shootings but there wasn't constant drills, schools closed because of graphetti on a bathroom stall (happened in our district before the holidays), 24 hour news coverage for a long time. I really do thing the anxiety is more than when I went to school,  which includes nuclear war, school shootings, or natural disasters. ADULTS won't let them forget for a moment. Don't blame the kids.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/6/2019 at 10:19 PM, Margaret in CO said:

Whine, whine, whine. Yeah, life is hard. It is for every generation! All of my children are technically millennials, and ya' know what? ALL are launched save the one still in college. 

Didn't your kids go into the military? That isn't feasible for a lot of people, my own son included. 

On 1/6/2019 at 11:20 PM, Corraleno said:

I think millennials are in a no-win situation, because older, wealthier people tell them that it's their own fault they're poor, and when they complain that no matter how hard they work they can't get ahead, the long-term poor tell them to stop complaining because life sucks and that's just the way it is.

What we're seeing now is a whole lot of 20-30 years olds saying but it shouldn't be that way. In a country as rich as the US, people who go to school and work hard should be able to afford to raise a family and have a roof over their heads and see a doctor when they need to. It blows my mind that people wanting to be paid a living wage and not die from preventable diseases or lose their homes because insulin costs more than their monthly rent get told they're just lazy and entitled snowflakes who need to grow up. 

Exactly. 

When your student loans (that your advisors all told you you should take, and you trusted them) cost more than your house payment, and your insurance also costs more than your house payment, and you are STILL having to pay money out of pocket for healthcare, and you are working two jobs...it's okay to say "this isn't right". 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, OKBud said:

I'm literally sitting here chatting with a 63 year old woman who teaches in a public school currently about it as I type this. LOL it just worked out that way (we're visiting). She and I are of a mind about it. 

So you want to talk about generalities re: your own experience, but millennial people should shut their traps. 

I completely understand the danger felt very very real. But that experience of cold war drills is a separate experience from having a school shooting being a real possibility during you whole, entire school career. There are parallels.  We have much common ground there. But they are, ultimately, different things. 

I've never said that. Go back and re-read my first post in this thread, please. I'll quote the pertinent parts right here for convenience: "I have zero patience with stereotyping any one "generation" as if they're a monolith, regardless of whether the stereotyping is in general good or bad. [snip] All the millenials I know are good, capable folks. Sure they have their issues. Just like all of us do. But none of them are whiny excuse makers like the author of that piece."

Edited by Pawz4me
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Margaret in CO said:

Not sure what the modern equivalent would be for earthquakes--how do they get under the desks? Not much room. And it wouldn't have worked in high school as those desks had those metal thingies to hold books. 

 

It actually makes sense to get under the desk or chairs or lab tables, or anything that will shield you from falling objects during an earthquake and we still do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Bluegoat said:

 

That's a huge generalisation.  And all institutions are prone to problems because of people who covet power.  It doesn't mean they don't have an important role.

But my point really was that it isn't like this kind of evil among large employers is new.  It is not all that different than the way it was before we began to regulate certain business practices by law.  History shows us that for a variety of reasons, trusting to people's good nature does not work.  Not only do the worst make the most money and so rise to the top, they feel justified in their actions because the society comes to believe the purpose of labour is to enrich business owners.

The union movement didn't spring up because workers wanted to be assholes, it sprang up because they were being exploited and government was not willing to do anything about it.  And it had an effect - many of the labour laws we think of as basic came out of the labour movement.  In more recent years we've been told that because of such laws, the union movement is no longer needed, and gosh, doesn't it violate individual freedoms?  Except - as it has lost a lot of its power, somehow workers rights are being eroded quite quickly, new problems like zero hours contracts are not really addressed, and governments are actually abolishing many of the old workers rights.  And who benefits and what is the result - a return toward the pre-labour movement type of workplace.

There were many different elements of the workers movement - small c conservative types, quite a few Catholic movements like the Catholic Workers movement or Antigonish  movement, various sorts of communists and socialists.  To say "unions are corrupt"  is just not seeing the breadth of that or what they did in terms of raising awareness, education, and so on.

People are quite rightly upset about the workplace now, worried about automation, that all gains in productivity are going to the 1%.  Millennials are right to look at this and think things are getting worse for them. But - I don't see, in the west, many of them taking actions even slightly comparable to the people who were involved in the labour movement around the turn of the last century, trying to look at underlying causes and structural issues.  Interestingly the people who do seem to be taking political action are older and often dismissed as retrograde and conservatives (implied that is bad.)

Yeah I kinda started posting ran out of time and didn’t finish what I was trying to say!  I actually didn’t mean to post but obviously did.  I’m not anti union at all but the current iteration where do works appears to have become more about looking after the unions interests than the workers.  Also it appears that at least one of the union reps is receiving kickbacks from the companies for getting the employees to sign up to the newest eba without fuss.  Secondly they have upset a number of employees by insisting on equal wages for everyone which means many of the guys that have significant experience or were receiving bonuses due to extra training and skill levels are losing that and getting the exact same as the kids straight out of their apprenticeship.  As well as that they are less powerful due to legislation changes here that undermine their power.  But yeah quite a lot of the employees at dhs work are disillusioned.  I agree that unionism can be an answer - but I think it has to be a movement from within the actual workers chasing their own specific goals not something that is a fully separate organisation with paid employees who at certain points in time may have conflict of interest with the people they are supposed to represent.

anyway, these aren’t fully formed views/opinions just response to some bad stuff that’s gone on recently.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My personal experience also has each generation doing better than the previous generation. I also am helping my children get a much better (well easier at least but maybe that's a bad thing) start in life. I was out at 17 living in a different state on minimum wage.

 

My children also are in so many ways privalaged. A very stable home (when it isn't being shook by the earth 😂), the knowledge that they can depend on family and friends (they saw we had countless beds available to us when our home was deemed unsafe until fixed), the ability to work (build, shovel, fix, cook), challenges out in the wild and in real life (not just panicking over which bubble to fill out), parents who teach coping skills (not just freak out about things which I have sadly seen in real life), just so many life skills and the comfort of friends and family who will back them up and support them if they mess up.

I'm not sure everyone else has that.

My 11 and 13 year old watched a person die on the side of the road a couple months ago. They were booted from an unsafe home after 4x4's snapped and walls moved from an earthquake. They have been allowed to fail but they are happy and healthy because they are being taught how to deal with life and honestly, that doesn't include whining. Sure you can cry. Sure you can vent and whine a little but then you get up and deal with the situation. Sometimes it's best not to whine and cry at all but I make allowances. 😉

I just don't know that all kids are getting the same lessons and support and honestly just know they are loved regardless of if they fail. I certainly wouldn't want my children trying to figure it out from the internet and news media!

 

I'm not arguing that millanials have it worse, actually I was arguing the opposite earlier in the thread. I just think every person on this earth has their own story and I can see challenges that some of this generation has even if all of them don't apply to my children.

Edited by frogger
Forgot half a sentence.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...