Jump to content

Menu

How does what is going on in the Russian and Ukrainian churches affect the Orthodox church in the US?


Recommended Posts

I am wondering how what is going on with regard to Russian, Ukraine, and Constantinople will affect the Orthodox branches in the US. From being on this board a couple years ago, my understanding was that it's been the practice of the Orthodox Church to allow a national expression of Orthodoxy that may differ culturally in the nonessentials, but which is united in the essentials. I recall that the US was an exception of sorts in that most Orthodox congregations in the US were a result of immigrants sticking to the church identify of their former country, but that there was also some movement to establish a branch of the Orthodox Church that was specifically for the US.  IIRC, the Russian Orthodox church was overseeing that process and deciding. Please correct me wherever I am wrong. 

I am reading not only that the Ukainians were allowed to have their own Orthodox Church separate from Russia (which I would have thought would go along with the "Orthodoxy in each culture/country" approach) but that the Russian Orthodox Church is threatening to break from Constantinople. 

How is what is happening affecting Orthodox believers in the US? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I will have to search and then copy/paste what I wrote about this somewhere else, ad state aforehsnd that I’m not the world’s expert on this, nor am I up-to-date oneecent developments.  

Net-net—this has potential to be a great sadness to the Irthidox and it is probably already too late to avoid bloodshed. The actions undertaken are politically, not theologically,  motivated—but fly in the face of the Orthodox tradition of ecclesial conciliatory governance.   We all pray for unity and humility.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the copy/paste.  Please note my caveats in preceding post.  This is at least a month old, in response to a PM.  

 

——-

 

Oh, thanks.  It is so derailing and so complex that it is likely that there would end up being "sides" when neither of us really knows for sure what is going on...and there is still hope that the Ecumenical Patriarch (Constantinople, who holds Greece in his see, but NOT Ukraine) will take back his going into the Patriarch of Russia's territory (Ukraine) and making a DEPOSED PRIEST a BISHOP of a non-canonical schismatic Orthodox group and calling it the Church of Ukraine.  

There will be blood shed in Ukraine.  The Ukrainians want OUT from under Russia, geopolitically, but there isn't that big a deal about it in the Church...well, there wasn't.  Now it is a problem.  Russia has said that its jurisdiction is no longer in communion with the EP (who has a dying jurisdiction under the Muslim rule).  That doesn't affect many people in Russia (who don't go to Greek parishes--because they are in Russia) or to the faithful of Greece (who don't go to Russian parishes--because they are in GREECE), but it DOES impact people in the US because we have all the jurisdictions here...because we were settled by immigration, and the immigrants brought their church jurisdictions with them.  So a friend of mine raised Russian married a woman raised Greek...and they can't commune in the same parish if this all goes blooey.  It is just SAD.

But it is not about Dogma.  It is about conciliarity and how bishops are supposed to behave (the Patriarchs are bishops with additional responsibilities, not extra votes).

I can't really say there is one site that is producing information about all this.  I've picked up the bits and pieces from Greek, Russian, and general Orthodox blogs and news sources, and I haven't followed it all that closely myself.  I have a goddaughter who has been going to a Greek parish for the last couple of years, and her brother is a priest in the Greek jurisdiction, so SHE has been following it, and she tells me from time to time what is going on.  She has not informed me that the Final Paper has been signed, so we are all begging God (and the Ecumenical Patriarch) to stop this action.  

 This is probably the most general information source I have...http://www.pravmir.com. And like you said, it is really a good question as to how much attention to pay to this when one can't do anything about it...well, that is not true.  We can pray.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Why are the Ukrainians called schismatics? Is the " schismatic “Kiev Patriarchate" another name for the Ukrainian Orthodox Church? 

Why was it not okay for the Ukraine to have its own --not sure the right word here---enculturation of the Orthodox Church? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

There IS a canonical and culturally Ukrainian Orthodox Church.  It has self-rule but is under the guidance of the Russian Patriarch.  

The Ukrainians are at geopolitical odds with the Russians right now, and that overflows into other areas, emotionally.

The Pariarch of Constantinople on his own and against the responses of every other jurisdiction declared a minority schismatic group in Ukraine to be the true church and under his authority.  He elevated to bishop a priest who had been DEPOSED.  

The US State Department has been interfering in this matter for its own political reasons. 

It would not be a complete stretch to compare this fake news story I just wrote to understand what is going on.  

“The governor of California today established governing control over the city of Las Vegas, putting into place as mayor the feloniously convicted head of a mafia family which has an established presence in the city.  The California governor said that “these are the True Nevadans and have a greater understanding of Las Vegas than the existing Nevada governor and citizenry.”   Observers suspect that California hopes to profit financially by annexing the famous gambling city.   The governors of Nevada and the other states have objected and said they will not recognize the annexation, citing established state and federal law to back up their stance.  The governor of California responded, “Pooh-Pooh.  Who cares?  I am the most important governor in the country and I do as I please.”

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes,  The Ukranian Orthodox Church does have it's own under the Russian Patriach. So, it really does feel like political reasons the Constantinople Patriarch did this. But, he is also in a very precarious situation there in Turkey and some say that he is trying to please the western world which wants Ukraine to be separated from Russia. The force in Ukraine is that part of them feel they are connected to Russia and others want to be separated from Russia. Not all Ukraines want out like our western media and information want to let us believe.  It is most certainly a political and culture issue that they are dealing with and the rest of  the world has their opinion and stakes in it as well. So the church has gotten messed up in it as well. Which is sad and unfortunate.  We don't know the hearts and minds of many of these people who are making decisions and so I try to refrain from harsh judgement on the people involved, but it does seem to not have been handled well. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
×
×
  • Create New...