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Katy

Hypothetically speaking...

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50 minutes ago, bolt. said:

I know what you mean here, but I want to say that it’s insensitive to cast marital infidelity (a very bad thing) as obviously “worse” than the kinds of heartbreaking, personalitiy-changing, cognitive breakdown, and potentially end-of-life issues that could be in play in terms of medical issues.

Both of those things are shatteringly horrible... but I think someone would have to endure both to be able to asses one as “worse than” the other.

I’m not trying to criticize: I’m feeling protective because of some situations I’m close to. People who live daily with a spouse who is losing their mind possibly sometimes wish that the evidence of decline had been evidence of an affair instead. (Then, they’d not have endured the infidelity and fallout, so how would they know either? I just think it’s not worth comparing the pain.)

My mother was schizophrenic.  I think I know about mental illness.   she was also in an adulterous relationship.  the damage that did to the family was FAR FAR worse!!!

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7 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

My mother was schizophrenic.  I think I know about mental illness.   she was also in an adulterous relationship.  the damage that did to the family was FAR FAR worse!!!

Yes.  While both are horrible, one is a choice and the other isn't. 

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6 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Yes.  While both are horrible, one is a choice and the other isn't. 

and the person who made the choice - demonstrated how little value they place on their family. 

while it's hard to watch a loved one descend into madness - it's not something they deliberately chose becasue they put their own temporary pleasure ahead of their own spouse or children.

Edited by gardenmom5
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12 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Yes.  While both are horrible, one is a choice and the other isn't. 

But I think how much harm is experienced can vary from one person to another, so there isn't a universal 'worst".

 

I remember going through financial and health difficulties after a major car accident at the same time as a dear friend was having her marriage disintegrating.  We were both sad and struggling, but, to me, what she was going through would have been so much worse, I much preferred health and money problems while having a strong, happy marriage... but she felt just as strongly that not having her health and experiencing financially precarious situations would have been much worse than what she was doing through.  Fortunately this difference of perspectives left us each grateful for having the problems we did... but it has stayed with me all these years as a reminder that it isn't just what happens, it is how we experience it, which is shaped by our pasts and our personalities. 

 

I think that sense was behind bolt's comment that mental decline and infidelity aren't on an objective scale, we might each experience them differently.  

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9 minutes ago, Eliana said:

But I think how much harm is experienced can vary from one person to another, so there isn't a universal 'worst".

 

I remember going through financial and health difficulties after a major car accident at the same time as a dear friend was having her marriage disintegrating.  We were both sad and struggling, but, to me, what she was going through would have been so much worse, I much preferred health and money problems while having a strong, happy marriage... but she felt just as strongly that not having her health and experiencing financially precarious situations would have been much worse than what she was doing through.  Fortunately this difference of perspectives left us each grateful for having the problems we did... but it has stayed with me all these years as a reminder that it isn't just what happens, it is how we experience it, which is shaped by our pasts and our personalities. 

 

I think that sense was behind bolt's comment that mental decline and infidelity aren't on an objective scale, we might each experience them differently.  

Yes. I wasn’t making a comparison of how it might feel to someone specifically. But there is a difference between an “evil” (aka difficult circumstance) that is avoidable if someone made different choices and one that is “random “. 

Edited to add that there is no personal betrayal in mental illness itself though mental illness can lead someone to betray others. 

Edited by Jean in Newcastle
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4 hours ago, maize said:

How old is the baby?

It takes me a couple of months to internalize a new baby's name. In the meantime they get called wrong more often than right, though usually just the next older sibling's name. Could this be a name he considered for the baby?

I do mix up family member names constantly, my kids especially get called by each others' names, the cats' names, and my own siblings' names. My mom's dad called my dad (his SiL) by his dog's name; the problem runs in the family.

A non family and not in habitual close circle name though is odd.

She's more than 3 months. Definitely not a considered name- we choose classic names, think the ones that are probable for the Britlish royal family and/or Biblical.  This was an 80's trendy name that works for either gender but was more common in girls.

4 hours ago, Garga said:

Was it really 30 seconds? Because that’s a veeeery long time to take to try to remember your own child’s name.  When I was a corporate trainer, they’d tell us to ask the trainees a question and then wait for 8 seconds. It takes 8 seconds for people to get up the nerve to answer in front of people, and it’s also how long it is before people start feeling uncomfortable with silence and will try to fill the silence.  30 seconds can be an eternity.  

If it was 30 seconds, I’d be very worried about mental issues—but I’d start with being worried about his sleep.  My dh was having severe memory issues and it turned out to be sleep apnea. I was pretty convinced he was having super-early onset of dementia because the memory issues were so bizarre and prevalent. 

If he was sheepish about it for a length of time, he’s either having an affair or there have been other memory issues that he’s starting to realize are a problem and he’s worried...or it really was a one time thing out of the blue that embarrased him.  

I know that no one gets sleep with a new baby, but if his sleep issues are extra bad, he could be a real danger on the road (a certain amount of sleep deprivation is the same as driving drunk), and he could start messing up on the job (that was the only reason my DH finally believed me that he has memory issues.  He simply didn’t remember forgetting things, so when I told him he was being scarily forgetful...he forgot that I told him he was forgetful.  His memory issues were always new to him when I brought them up, because he didn’t remember that he had memory issues.  It was a mess!). So, first step is probably to try to get him some extra sleep and then go from there. That would be the easiest fix.  Because an affair or true mental impairment will be seriously bad news.

 

At least 30 seconds. And the babies sleep pretty well.  I'm sometimes up by 3 with one, and both are often up by 4, but DH's alarm starts going off then, so that's not their fault.  When he came home he told me he had trouble sleeping last night and was really stressed at work.

3 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

Good point about the former co-worker.

Katy, can you check and make sure the former co-worker is still living out of state? Do she and your dh still work for the same company or travel to the same conventions?

 

 

Definitely works for the same company, as far as I know still out of state.  Not someone I worried about in regards to an affair before - not to be cliche, but she's pretty unattractive with poor social skills. Not that men don't cheat with women like that too.

 

3 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

Can you call a receptionist - play dumb, don't identify yourself, and say you're trying to get a hold of ___ person, but you only know the first name.

what does your gut say?    God gave us a gut for a reason.  if he only needs more sleep, fabulous.  if he is developing something with his mental health - you have an early warning to get appropriate medical help.   if he's being a very naughty boy . . . . . you can start doing what you need to do to protect yourself and your children.

THIS.   it's ok to say you think he needs more sleep, or maybe a medical checkup as he could be deficient in something - but absolutely do not let him think for one minute you even have a thought there could be something worse.   if it's is "worse" - he will make it harder for you to do what you need to do for yourself and your children.

 

I nearly called my grandson 1dd's dog's name . . . . but their role is the same.  both entirely dependent upon the adult, and I had been puppy sitting during the day all summer.

 

No, he's in engineering middle management at a huge corporation.  This isn't something I can call a receptionist for. They have multiple locations within a 20 mile radius and he's probably at at least two of them daily because of the nature of his job. Today he was at 4 - I know because I was watching him on Find My Friends most of the day.

When he walked in my gut said our relationship is fine and he is overtired, but at the same time I'm thinking back to my ex and how HE would call me an idiot for trusting DH.  Baggage, yes; but wisdom and/or cynicism I'm not sure. I don't want to look back later and think I was an idiot for denying what was obvious. I also don't want to blow up an otherwise calm and happy relationship because of baggage from my ex.  When DH came home tonight he talked extensively about work stress I hadn't been aware of before, and not knowing whether it was time to start applying to other jobs yet (within the company) or to stick it out until the project he's managing that's turning out to be a disaster is finished. There are obvious management issues that aren't going to be resolved to his satisfaction here, and he's responsible for some things he has no control of so it's really a no-win situation. Well I've hated this location ever since about 3 months after we moved here.  This location is close to a good business school, and as a result there are too many young MBA's without families or work experience who insert themselves into his job and tell him things that are flat-out illegal, like the jerk who gave him advice to not take time off for the birth of his child!  The jerk came back and apologized a few weeks later, but then got promoted, but it's not the only issue I have had here with people he peripherally works with. This is not the kind of company with those sorts of values, it's more like a dream employer who in other locations emphasizes work-life balance so you stay your whole career. As a result of my annoyance we haven't socialized as much here as we have in other locations, so I can't call around to the few women in the department and mention the name.

He said he hadn't been able to sleep last night.  I suggested he go to bed early and he asked why.  I said I was worried about him. When he asked why I said he wasn't acting like himself.  He's seemed moody, stressed, he hadn't remembered our daughter's name this morning and had called her by the name of some random woman at work.  He said it wasn't a woman, it was a guy.  Well it was one of those 80's names (like Kelly, but not Kelly), where I'd met ONE man named that before, but half a dozen women, so I guess it's possible. I said, "Great, glad it wasn't a sign you're secretly cheating on me.  I'm still worried about you."  He went into more work talk about stress and worries he hadn't shared about since the baby was born, and afterwards did those sort of deep breathy sighs that he's done in the past when calming down after deep stress. Then he mentioned that he might take a whole two weeks off of work for the holidays.  He still has weeks of paternity leave left that he can take at any time.

He fell asleep before 8 pm and is currently snoring loudly.  I hadn't thought much about sleep apnea before, but it could be a factor.  In the past when he snored loudly I would elbow him until he turned over, but with this last baby I've either become too tired to care or my brain started to filter out the noise as unimportant. He said he doesn't want to buy another fixer upper until our kids are all over 18, and now he understands why all his coworkers buy ugly overpriced but new McMansions that need little work. He wants to get the house projects done ASAP so we can sell the house, even if that means hiring someone to do the work we don't have time for.  That is unusual for him.  Usually he'd just want to wait a few more months until DD is on a regular nap/sleep schedule and then count on me and weekends to get stuff done. The only times he's hired contractors in the past were for things I refuse to do because they are gross or dangerous (plumbing, demolition), and we've always bought ugly houses in good neighborhoods with cosmetic issues so I could do most of the work myself.  This house has needed more work than others, but it was also bigger and in a nicer neighborhood than we've ever bought in before.  I can see how the undone projects could be adding stress.  Especially because he was in the middle of one when I started going into labor early and it's still not finished.

He also asked me to look into the services available for our child with special needs in a town out of state that has a job open he might apply for.

 

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Snoring is the #1 sign of sleep apnea.

My dh is stressed and moody and depressed and has memory issues when he doesn’t have enough sleep

I get depressed and overwhelmed by life without enough sleep.  

See about getting him in for a sleep study. 

Edited by Garga
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+1 on the sleep study.

My husband has apnea, he never even snored but his breathing was stopping many times each hour so he was never sleeping deeply.

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Maybe it was the name of someone at work but he wasn't thinking of that person at the time.  He might have heard the same name on the radio or tv and was thinking about that while he played with your daughter.  It might be from all the stress.  I hope taking time off work helps him feel better.

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He's seemed moody, stressed, he hadn't remembered our daughter's name this morning and had called her by the name of some random woman at work.  He said it wasn't a woman, it was a guy.  Well it was one of those 80's names (like Kelly, but not Kelly), where I'd met ONE man named that before, but half a dozen women, so I guess it's possible. I said, "Great, glad it wasn't a sign you're secretly cheating on me.  I'm still worried about you."  He went into more work talk about stress and worries he hadn't shared about since the baby was born, and afterwards did those sort of deep breathy sighs that he's done in the past when calming down after deep stress. Then he mentioned that he might take a whole two weeks off of work for the holidays.  He still has weeks of paternity leave left that he can take at any time

I think if this were *my* dh, this would not be plausible enough for my guard to come all the way down. For one thing, it makes less sense that he would say the name of a guy (unless he has tender inclinations in that direction) while caressing a soft baby girl’s cheek. It sounds more like he came up with that explanation after he thought about his blunder. Ie., “well, there are guys named Jamie, so I can just say it was Jamie-the-guy...” 

Also, not to harp on this possibility, but an incident of infidelity, or a temptation in that direction is a reason someone wants to move house. Even declaring he’s going to take two weeks off work would make me nervous...is he trying to distance himself from a problem person at work, either because there’s a temptation there or because something has crossed the line? 

I’m sorry to bring these points up and I hope I am utterly wrong. I hope he has sleep apnea! 

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When my husband had a migraine last year he temporarily lost his normal ability to visually focus, then he couldn't remember his phone number. Normally he can remember the number of every credit card he's ever had.  When I took him to urgent he couldn't correctly fill in phone number or email-he made a few errors.  That had never happened with one of his migraines before. The doctor said next time to go immediately to the ER and explain what's happening so they can observe it while it's happening.

When my middle daughter was about to get a migraine she would say strange things and get spacey.  She's the least spacey girl I ever met.

My mother once called me by the dog's name.  She had no cognitive decline going on, she was thinking about something the dog had done, then she saw me, remembered she needed me to come in and do something, and used the dog's name to get my attention.

I don't think one isolated instance of a husband using someone else's name is a reason to be upset. I would keep my eyes and ears open for other instances. I'd jot down each odd thing with the date I observed it.

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It does sound like his stress level is a lot higher than you had realized. And the sleep issue--for me, it had become so bad that I dreaded bedtime, because my insomnia was so bad. It took some time to adjust to a cpap machine, and I still don't love that I have to use one. But wowzers, what a difference it has made. 

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26 minutes ago, Quill said:

I think if this were *my* dh, this would not be plausible enough for my guard to come all the way down. For one thing, it makes less sense that he would say the name of a guy (unless he has tender inclinations in that direction) while caressing a soft baby girl’s cheek. It sounds more like he came up with that explanation after he thought about his blunder. Ie., “well, there are guys named Jamie, so I can just say it was Jamie-the-guy...” 

Also, not to harp on this possibility, but an incident of infidelity, or a temptation in that direction is a reason someone wants to move house. Even declaring he’s going to take two weeks off work would make me nervous...is he trying to distance himself from a problem person at work, either because there’s a temptation there or because something has crossed the line? 

I’m sorry to bring these points up and I hope I am utterly wrong. I hope he has sleep apnea! 

Ugh, well, I am at least glad I wasn’t the only one to think these things. 

I hope he is just exhausted. 

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6 hours ago, bolt. said:

I know what you mean here, but I want to say that it’s insensitive to cast marital infidelity (a very bad thing) as obviously “worse” than the kinds of heartbreaking, personalitiy-changing, cognitive breakdown, and potentially end-of-life issues that could be in play in terms of medical issues.

Both of those things are shatteringly horrible... but I think someone would have to endure both to be able to asses one as “worse than” the other.

I’m not trying to criticize: I’m feeling protective because of some situations I’m close to. People who live daily with a spouse who is losing their mind possibly sometimes wish that the evidence of decline had been evidence of an affair instead. (Then, they’d not have endured the infidelity and fallout, so how would they know either? I just think it’s not worth comparing the pain.)

 

I read it as in "deficient in some vitamins, sleep, etc. as gardenmom said "something." In that case, I'd agree that an affair would be worse.

OP, after your longer update, I am inclined to think he is extremely distracted and stressed out. However, I would of course keep my eyes open and check on a few oddities should they occur. If it's something you need to know, it's better to know soon. The part about moving possibly seems to me to point in the direction that he has been thinking of changing jobs for a while but perhaps has not mentioned it to you because of the impending birth? Don't know if this is plausible for him but you know him better than I do. 🙂 Also, with every child there seems to be a new sense of responsibility that some men feel. Several men have said this to me. It is the feeling of having to make sure the new addition to the family is also well provided for. It seems a somewhat intangible feeling and some guys would think for a few moments to self-check before being able to say if they felt this way or not. 

As someone else has said, sometimes moving can mean "wanting to get away from someone," however, if this were the case, at least he then appears to want to stop it and not continue it. But again, the way you described the whole situation, it sounds more like: "I want to get out of this job yesterday and I was just waiting for a good time to get going."

OP, I totally get why you would be alarmed since you have experienced deception in a previous marriage. I still hope it's preoccupation with work issues and him contemplating what changes he wants / needs to make.

Edited by Liz CA
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Once when taking dd10 to the doctor, I told the receptionist that her name was Heather.  I have 5 girls and I don't have a Heather.

I have no idea where it came from.  Fortunately dd10 thought it was funny.

I've also have memory lapses.  I remember once when I had been regularly taking fish oil.  I had to stop taking it for bloodwork and promptly forgot a phone number that I call nearly every day.  I thought for several minutes and still couldn't remember the number.

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1 hour ago, Quill said:

I think if this were *my* dh, this would not be plausible enough for my guard to come all the way down. For one thing, it makes less sense that he would say the name of a guy (unless he has tender inclinations in that direction) while caressing a soft baby girl’s cheek. It sounds more like he came up with that explanation after he thought about his blunder. Ie., “well, there are guys named Jamie, so I can just say it was Jamie-the-guy...” 

Also, not to harp on this possibility, but an incident of infidelity, or a temptation in that direction is a reason someone wants to move house. Even declaring he’s going to take two weeks off work would make me nervous...is he trying to distance himself from a problem person at work, either because there’s a temptation there or because something has crossed the line? 

I’m sorry to bring these points up and I hope I am utterly wrong. I hope he has sleep apnea! 

I was thinking similarly. Maybe it is the way OP is typing it and not being able to hear how the whole conversation actually played out but from reading the update I'd be even more suspicious. Having dh call his dd the name of a male co-worker, suddenly wanting to move, hiring work out when that isn't his personality at all, and  bringing up how stressed he is at work in what seems like a lot of detail seem to all be suspicious.

 

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1 hour ago, Katy said:

 When DH came home tonight he talked extensively about work stress I hadn't been aware of before, and not knowing whether it was time to start applying to other jobs yet (within the company) or to stick it out until the project he's managing that's turning out to be a disaster is finished. There are obvious management issues that aren't going to be resolved to his satisfaction here, and he's responsible for some things he has no control of so it's really a no-win situation. Well I've hated this location ever since about 3 months after we moved here.  This location is close to a good business school, and as a result there are too many young MBA's without families or work experience who insert themselves into his job and tell him things that are flat-out illegal, like the jerk who gave him advice to not take time off for the birth of his child!  The jerk came back and apologized a few weeks later, but then got promoted, but it's not the only issue I have had here with people he peripherally works with. This is not the kind of company with those sorts of values, it's more like a dream employer who in other locations emphasizes work-life balance so you stay your whole career. As a result of my annoyance we haven't socialized as much here as we have in other locations, so I can't call around to the few women in the department and mention the name.

He said he hadn't been able to sleep last night.  I suggested he go to bed early and he asked why.  I said I was worried about him. When he asked why I said he wasn't acting like himself.  He's seemed moody, stressed, he hadn't remembered our daughter's name this morning and had called her by the name of some random woman at work.  He said it wasn't a woman, it was a guy.  Well it was one of those 80's names (like Kelly, but not Kelly), where I'd met ONE man named that before, but half a dozen women, so I guess it's possible. I said, "Great, glad it wasn't a sign you're secretly cheating on me.  I'm still worried about you."  He went into more work talk about stress and worries he hadn't shared about since the baby was born, and afterwards did those sort of deep breathy sighs that he's done in the past when calming down after deep stress. Then he mentioned that he might take a whole two weeks off of work for the holidays.  He still has weeks of paternity leave left that he can take at any time.

He fell asleep before 8 pm and is currently snoring loudly.  I hadn't thought much about sleep apnea before, but it could be a factor.  In the past when he snored loudly I would elbow him until he turned over, but with this last baby I've either become too tired to care or my brain started to filter out the noise as unimportant. He said he doesn't want to buy another fixer upper until our kids are all over 18, and now he understands why all his coworkers buy ugly overpriced but new McMansions that need little work. He wants to get the house projects done ASAP so we can sell the house, even if that means hiring someone to do the work we don't have time for.  That is unusual for him.  Usually he'd just want to wait a few more months until DD is on a regular nap/sleep schedule and then count on me and weekends to get stuff done. The only times he's hired contractors in the past were for things I refuse to do because they are gross or dangerous (plumbing, demolition), and we've always bought ugly houses in good neighborhoods with cosmetic issues so I could do most of the work myself.  This house has needed more work than others, but it was also bigger and in a nicer neighborhood than we've ever bought in before.  I can see how the undone projects could be adding stress.  Especially because he was in the middle of one when I started going into labor early and it's still not finished.

He also asked me to look into the services available for our child with special needs in a town out of state that has a job open he might apply for.

 

he sounds very very stressed.  my dsil just (finally) changed jobs from one that was incredibly stressful - and similar in that people would come in and undermine what he was responsible for.  and when his boss got wind he was trying to change jobs - his boss actually threatened one potential new boss with hiring someone who was unqualified (apparently, he was unfamiliar with something that takes about 15 minutes to get up to speed on . . . )    he finally changed jobs.  I hope it's better for him - as he is just starting the change.   and they're one of those couples who bought a house that didn't need much work.   (paint, light fixtures, some backyard landscaping if they want anything besides grass.)

stress increases cortisol levels - which greatly can interfere with sleep.   and if he does have sleep apnea - that's like adding insult to injury.    just makes things worse.  

also understand - prolonged stress can have a similar effect upon the body as depression - it's not depression, but similar.  moodiness could easily be caused by stress/raised-cortisol levels.

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35 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

I was thinking similarly. Maybe it is the way OP is typing it and not being able to hear how the whole conversation actually played out but from reading the update I'd be even more suspicious. Having dh call his dd the name of a male co-worker, suddenly wanting to move, hiring work out when that isn't his personality at all, and  bringing up how stressed he is at work in what seems like a lot of detail seem to all be suspicious.

This was my thought as well. He said the wrong name; he acted sheepish; and then he came home talking about how stressed and tired he was, accompanied with lots of sighing? And he hasn't talked about being stressed for several months? This seems to me like it *might* be an attempt to not-so-subtly provide an explanation for what happened. And it seems unlikely (and just plain weird) that he would say a guy's name while caressing his baby daughter's cheek. 

Like others have said, I hope I'm wrong. This all could very well be totally innocent. I'm so sorry you're dealing with this, Katy. 

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The thing that would cause me the most concern is the 30+ second gap before he remembered the name.  Either it took him that long because he realized his mistake and was trying to figure out how to get out of it, or he was just totally confused.

How long have you been married?  

My dh used to get migraines a lot.  He said some pretty weird stuff before and during his migraines!  Sometimes a full day before his migraines, he would get moody and fuzzy-headed.  I think it took us several years to connect everything to migraines.  (That's why I was wondering how long you've been married.)  So if my dh did that, I'd think nothing of it.  I'd probably say, "You're going to wake up in the morning with migraine!"

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I don’t know. Work stress is real, and it’s not ever something I’ve experienced at home. I almost went driving the wrong way  direction the other day. All this honking,’I wonder who it is. Why, it’s me.  

I think you should be worried, but about a health issue or something else happening at work that he hasn’t shared yet. Not affair necessarily.

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I’m not sure what to think. 

On one hand, he could be telling the truth. But on the other hand, it seems awfully strange that he picked the day he messed up his dd’s name as the day he suddenly wanted to have a big heart-to-heart conversation with Katy — and that a large part of that conversation seemed to have been designed to make her feel sorry for him. 

It almost seems like he was trying to divert her attention away from the earlier incident with the name by bringing up serious, important, and even life-changing topics (job, big home projects, moving...) that would be stressful for her and that would preoccupy her mind so she wouldn’t give another thought to the fact that he called his dd by the wrong name.

And as much as I would like to believe him, I don’t buy it for a minute that he mistakenly called his own baby dd by the name of a GUY from work!  Nobody would do that. 

Something definitely seems wrong here, but there are possibilities that don’t involve an affair. I’m still not ready to accuse him of cheating because we really have no evidence to support it, even though there are certainly some red flags. I think Katy should let her dh think all is well and that she trusts him completely, while she covertly does a LOT of snooping. In her shoes, I would be looking at credit card bills and bank statements, as well as at his texts and emails if at all possible. It would also be worth checking his wallet for credit cards that she doesn’t recognize, and to check for any receipts that seem unusual. 

I am hoping against hope that the snooping will help prove that nothing is going on, but whenever someone says that something doesn’t seem right to them, I always encourage them to try to find out the truth, and I think that’s what all of us are suggesting to Katy. 

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Do you think he could be depressed?  Another thing that can really affect cognition is depression. 

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I keep thinking about this and trying to view this from the perspective of Katy’s dh having a perfectly reasonable and innocent reason for acting so strangely, but no matter how hard I try, I can’t get past the idea of him calling his baby dd the name of a guy from work. It makes no sense to me. It actually made more sense when I thought it was a woman from work, because at least it was a female. But who would cuddle with their baby girl and call her a man’s name? 

Seriously, think about it. If your dh was holding your little baby girl and said, “That’s my adorable little Matthew!” — wouldn’t you think that was bizarre? Because even if the name Katy’s dh used was unisex, he was supposedly thinking it was a male co-worker’s name, so it was the equivalent of referring to his daughter as Steve or Gary.

I think that is so weird. It makes it difficult for me to be objective about all of the other details.

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+1 on the sleep apnea. Get him a sleep study.  It will benefit both of you. I thought I was sleeping through my husbands snoring.  I finally *insisted* he get a sleep study because it was impacting his health. When he got his CPAP, I noticed after a while that I was feeling more rested too. 

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59 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I keep thinking about this and trying to view this from the perspective of Katy’s dh having a perfectly reasonable and innocent reason for acting so strangely, but no matter how hard I try, I can’t get past the idea of him calling his baby dd the name of a guy from work. It makes no sense to me. It actually made more sense when I thought it was a woman from work, because at least it was a female. But who would cuddle with their baby girl and call her a man’s name? 

Seriously, think about it. If your dh was holding your little baby girl and said, “That’s my adorable little Matthew!” — wouldn’t you think that was bizarre? Because even if the name Katy’s dh used was unisex, he was supposedly thinking it was a male co-worker’s name, so it was the equivalent of referring to his daughter as Steve or Gary.

I think that is so weird. It makes it difficult for me to be objective about all of the other details.

I agree that it is bizarre that he used a man's name to address a girl baby. I am very stressed in life and I say something when I mean something else - my mind is racing ahead and I think about other things while I am in the middle of a conversation on a different topic and end up saying bizarre things - my son is usually my audience because I do it a lot at home and he bursts into laughter when I am talking to him about basketball and say things about changing my car tires in the conversation. I am trying to say how it is possible to say out-of-context things due to severe stress.

But, I don't think that it is enough reason to drop caution. If I were you, Katy, I would create a linkedin account (maybe not with my real name to preserve my anonymity) and use it to check out all the employees of the company that your DH is connected to and see if there is anyone with the unusual first name working there. If that person is real, then you can get their full name and see what their position within the company is etc. 

Edited by mathnerd
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It's not the first time he's mentioned moving or work stress, but it is the first time he went into this much detail. To be fair he has complained several times over the last week specifically as there have been a series of 6am progress meetings where it became increasingly clear this project isn't going to get finished in time. He's texted me about having sinking feelings that this project isn't going to work as last week went on.  It might not even get finished in the next 3 years, and as it involves competing departments with competing interests there isn't a good solution at hand.  He's known I've been ready to move for a while now. I hate the impact young MBA's have on the engineering culture here, and as a result I haven't gone out of my way to make friends here the way I have in other locations.  I have a handful of local friends that I've made mostly through the foster care community, but in previous locations we were very involved in church and the community and networking stuff so we had a richer social life. Not that I would normally focus on social stuff with infant(s) in the house anyway. I did say about halfway through the pregnancy that I wanted to stay where we are until after baby was born & everything was settled, but it usually takes 3-6 months minimum after starting to apply for other jobs to get one and get moved.  Engineering projects are planned several years in advance so this is typical. 

Someone in the family has sleep apnea so I can ask how sleep studies work and how they knew it was needed in front of DH over Christmas, so he can possibly think it was his idea to have one done.

Re the 30 second name thing, first he said the name from work, then he used, "Buddy," which we call the boy baby frequently, then he used, "Sweetheart," which we use for her frequently, then he used her legal name rather than one of the nicknames we use more frequently.  And I could see him looking increasingly bewildered the whole time, like "why can't I remember her name?"

 

ETA: apparently when a toddler hits the tab key on the corner of your Mac the response you're typing up gets submitted.  My point was he did go through other male nicknames first, and since the other baby is a boy it doesn't seem that strange to me. I'll snoop through his phone again, but if there's an ongoing situation he's either got a secret phone or they don't text/call.  I have that stuff pretty supervised bc of kids and just last week I was looking through his phone in front of him to turn off data usage for some apps because his data usage suddenly tripled.  I handle most financial things, I have the passwords for everything.  He likes to shop for Christmas presents, especially for the boys in the family, so odd spending this month usually turns up as stuff he wants me to wrap in the next couple days.

Also his entire company usually grants the week of Christmas off, and there's a use it or lose it policy re the parental leave for the extra week for the older baby, so it's not super surprising he wants to use it.  It is the first time he confirmed he was going to use it though.

Edited by Katy
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When you frame it as an affair, it makes sense, but it could easily be seen the other way...and I speak with some experience here.

He has been very stressed with work, even considered moving. It's affected him sleep-wise and emotionally. He may feel trapped and depressed, and this may concern him even more because of family history. BUT he's the man, he's the strong one, he should be able to handle this. He's embarrassed. Worse, you are probably busy and stressed caring for little ones and the last thing he wants to do is put the burden on you that he is at the breaking point, that he is about to suggest that you pick up and move  (and we all know it's the mom that does all the work in that scenario!)

And then he can't remember his own child's name. He comes out with something random and can't even explain it to himself. He is freaked out. Thirty seconds with blank mind is terrifying (I know this from personal experience.) And he's thinking, now you know, you are going to realize how bad it's gotten. It's awful, but on the other hand, maybe now it means he can open up to you. There is no way to hide it. So suddenly you are hearing the depths of his stress.

It's hard to say which scenario is more likely, but I would consider all options. If my thoughts are true, it might really break him to realize that with everything else falling apart that you don't trust him anymore. 

And on the list of medical things, if he is getting a physical, makes sure he gets checked for a UTI. 

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7 hours ago, Catwoman said:

I keep thinking about this and trying to view this from the perspective of Katy’s dh having a perfectly reasonable and innocent reason for acting so strangely, but no matter how hard I try, I can’t get past the idea of him calling his baby dd the name of a guy from work. It makes no sense to me. It actually made more sense when I thought it was a woman from work, because at least it was a female. But who would cuddle with their baby girl and call her a man’s name? 

Seriously, think about it. If your dh was holding your little baby girl and said, “That’s my adorable little Matthew!” — wouldn’t you think that was bizarre? Because even if the name Katy’s dh used was unisex, he was supposedly thinking it was a male co-worker’s name, so it was the equivalent of referring to his daughter as Steve or Gary.

I think that is so weird. It makes it difficult for me to be objective about all of the other details.

Um, I call the girl kids boy names, and the boy kids girl names ALL THE TIME. And I call them all by the dogs' names and the cats' names, lol. And by the amazon echo's name. Has nothing to do with gender, has to do with what was on my mind right before I started talking. So if he was thinking about work issues, it makes sense he'd use a name from work. Also, the other youngest is a boy, so that could be part of it too. 

Honestly, he sounds stressed in the way my DH gets around work stuff, plus add in the holidays, plus add in a new baby, and it seems perfectly normal. As for bringing up too much detail, she's the one that started that conversation, not him, from the way she phrased it. 

OP, I think you should insist that he get a physical while he's taking that two weeks off, and make sure he mentions the snoring to the doctor. 

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My DH has sleep apnea (so does his mom). She used to have terrible issues with her memory before she was treated. DH also has some cognitive function impact when he has to go without his machine for a few nights. Definitely look into that!

(But still, cover all your bases. Phone history and such...)

Edited by alisoncooks

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He has very pale, anemic looking gums.  Both his parents had early cancer.  Will schedule a doctors appt asap.

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3 minutes ago, Katy said:

He has very pale, anemic looking gums.  

 

My kids pediatrician says eye bags with eye shadows are a symptom of sleep apnea. He suggested sleep study for my younger kid if my kid seems tired during the day. My kid did have slight anemia and Vit D deficiency.

For anemia, besides gums, eyelids and nails are rather accurate indicators.

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3 hours ago, Katy said:

He has very pale, anemic looking gums.  Both his parents had early cancer.  Will schedule a doctors appt asap.

 

Based on your updates today, I am feeling better about the affair thing because after hearing more details, his behavior doesn’t sound as suspicious... but now I’m back to my original concern about his health. 😞

I’m sorry if I worried you yesterday, Katy — I was just trying to sort out all of the possibilities because I was worried about you, and I wanted you to be in the best possible position so you didn’t get blindsided by anything that might happen. 

 

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3 hours ago, Arcadia said:

 

My kids pediatrician says eye bags with eye shadows are a symptom of sleep apnea. He suggested sleep study for my younger kid if my kid seems tired during the day. My kid did have slight anemia and Vit D deficiency.

For anemia, besides gums, eyelids and nails are rather accurate indicators.

can also be a wheat allergy

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5 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Um, I call the girl kids boy names, and the boy kids girl names ALL THE TIME. And I call them all by the dogs' names and the cats' names, lol. And by the amazon echo's name. Has nothing to do with gender, has to do with what was on my mind right before I started talking. So if he was thinking about work issues, it makes sense he'd use a name from work. Also, the other youngest is a boy, so that could be part of it too. 

Honestly, he sounds stressed in the way my DH gets around work stuff, plus add in the holidays, plus add in a new baby, and it seems perfectly normal. As for bringing up too much detail, she's the one that started that conversation, not him, from the way she phrased it. 

OP, I think you should insist that he get a physical while he's taking that two weeks off, and make sure he mentions the snoring to the doctor. 

next older kid is a girl - 1ds got called a girl's name . . .

I hang my head in shame when I nearly called grandson (I need a nickname for him.  1cutiepie?) by 1dd's dog's name . . .

mil calls her OWN children by her SIBLINGS names. she even used dead siblings names.

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2 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

next older kid is a girl - 1ds got called a girl's name . . .

I hang my head in shame when I nearly called grandson (I need a nickname for him.  1cutiepie?) by 1dd's dog's name . . .

mil calls her OWN children by her SIBLINGS names. she even used dead siblings names.

Oh, I call my kids by my siblings' names frequently. Especially if I am around members of my family or have been thinking about them. Like, I'll be talking to my sister M on the phone and after I hang up call my son by my brother J's name.

I'm sure a sibling passing away wouldn't remove their name from my brain's "family name bank" that apparently can be called upon generically when a name for someone close to me is needed 😄

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My grandma A says that when she was a kid she thought her name was "dammit A[...]" because that's what her dad ended up saying every time he tried to call her and found himself going through the list of her sisters' names first (grandma was the youngest).

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48 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Based on your updates today, I am feeling better about the affair thing because after hearing more details, his behavior doesn’t sound as suspicious... but now I’m back to my original concern about his health. 😞

I’m sorry if I worried you yesterday, Katy — I was just trying to sort out all of the possibilities because I was worried about you, and I wanted you to be in the best possible position so you didn’t get blindsided by anything that might happen. 

 

 

I wouldn't have posted if I hadn't already been worried myself!  Both of my parents went through multiple divorces, and even though I'm much healthier than either of them when it comes to relationships I'm never quite as certain of myself as I am in other areas of my life.  I know I'm a very good mother and my instincts there are spot-on.  But when it comes to this, the part of myself that has been happily married for years was at war with the part of myself that was with my ex. When I heard his voice echoing in my head, "How could you be so stupid?" I figured I needed some outside perspective.

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14 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

can also be a wheat allergy

 

He was a carnivore then eating frozen chicken, pork, beef cooked in plain water. Will keep wheat allergy in mind though as he had GI issues that he seems to have outgrown when he turned eight. Asthma, anemia and eczema runs on my side of the family so that gets check first for my kids before food allergies. 

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21 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

next older kid is a girl - 1ds got called a girl's name . . .

I hang my head in shame when I nearly called grandson (I need a nickname for him.  1cutiepie?) by 1dd's dog's name . . .

mil calls her OWN children by her SIBLINGS names. she even used dead siblings names.

I frequently refer to dd by the name of my deceased sister. Only when talking about her, though -- never to her. I have no idea why. I also have dreams in which my sister and dd are conflated -- dd will suddenly change into my sister as a kid, or vice versa. Brains are weird.

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7 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Um, I call the girl kids boy names, and the boy kids girl names ALL THE TIME. And I call them all by the dogs' names and the cats' names, lol. And by the amazon echo's name. Has nothing to do with gender, has to do with what was on my mind right before I started talking. So if he was thinking about work issues, it makes sense he'd use a name from work. Also, the other youngest is a boy, so that could be part of it too. 

Honestly, he sounds stressed in the way my DH gets around work stuff, plus add in the holidays, plus add in a new baby, and it seems perfectly normal. As for bringing up too much detail, she's the one that started that conversation, not him, from the way she phrased it. 

OP, I think you should insist that he get a physical while he's taking that two weeks off, and make sure he mentions the snoring to the doctor. 

To me, this is just not the same as the scenario Katy posted. I call my dh or my kids by the wrong name sometimes, but it’s usually when I am exasperated with them. It has never, ever been during a tender moment such as caressing a baby’s cheek. To me, it is pretty much impossible for me to come up with the wrong name at a tender moment because I only have tender feelings connected with a small number of names and none of them are my co-workers. 

To use a similar analogy, if dh was giving me a naked massage and, while reveling in the massage comfort, I called him by an irrelevant name, that’s bound to raise some questions. Those comfortable, sensual feelings cannot possibly be connected to many names, kwim? 

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2 hours ago, maize said:

My grandma A says that when she was a kid she thought her name was "dammit A[...]" because that's what her dad ended up saying every time he tried to call her and found himself going through the list of her sisters' names first (grandma was the youngest).

 

I heard a somewhat similar story about a young pair of twins. They each believed they had the same name, because everything else about them was the same and their parents always hollered for them together. Each thought his name was BobandFred (fictitious names).

Edited by Seasider too
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As a 3rd possibility with the weird data usage your dh doesn’t have any gaming issues in the past?  Late night screen use/gaming due to insomnia can make people tired and have cognitive issues too.

I really hope it turns out to be nothing or something simple to resolve with some vitamin supplements or something.  

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2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

As a 3rd possibility with the weird data usage your dh doesn’t have any gaming issues in the past?  

 

Or the company internet WiFi has an outage and OP’s husband had to use his own phone as a WiFi hotspot to get and received emails.

I had to use my phone’s data at places with unstable WiFi to get my Uber ride or to check if an urgent email has come in when I am outside with no free WiFi nearby. 

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2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

As a 3rd possibility with the weird data usage your dh doesn’t have any gaming issues in the past?  Late night screen use/gaming due to insomnia can make people tired and have cognitive issues too.

I really hope it turns out to be nothing or something simple to resolve with some vitamin supplements or something.  

 

No, I think he downloaded a couple new apps, never closed them, and didn't realize they were draining data constantly because he never connects to WiFi.  The Target app was one of the worst.  He started running almost all of the errands since this newest little one, so he downloaded all the apps to get the best deals.

 

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It sounds like stress plus sleep deprivation.  

The other day, I was at Subway and they asked what kind of cheese I wanted.  I couldn't remember what to call the sliced round cheese, and the more I tried to remember, the more I panicked and could NOT remember.  The girl looked at me like I was nuts and I wondered if maybe I was starting to experience early dementia or something and then all of a sudden...PROVOLONE!

The brain is weird. 

The sheepishness might not be guilt over an affair.  It might be the embarrassment that he's stressed at work and that stress is spilling into his home life, (ie: he couldn't remember the correct name for the baby).  Maybe it makes him feel like he's not in control.  Is a lot of his identity tied to be "In charge/in control/Mr. Responsibility"?  

Any chance that he's worried about getting laid off at work?  Maybe the name slip-up isn't "I'm thinking about this affair partner", but worry that "Person X may take my job/wants to re-org my department", and that is why they were on his mind. 

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*my* mind would continue to allow for any possibility whatsoever. However, I will tell you that I have a male family member who started acting v v v weird in all kinds of ways and come to find out (months later) he had a severe B vitamin deficiency. 

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I would be on the lookout for another job.   When dh was finally ready to change jobs, he just lost it.  He just came home and said, “find me something somewhere else.  Send out my resume wherever. I’m done.”  It took a while obviously, but there was some immediate relief because he knew we were being proactive in getting him out of that situation at work.  So, yeah, I do think the stress can get overwhelming pretty suddenly.    

And yes, memory can be a strange thing.  I get names wrong all.the.time.  I’ve called everyone in this house names that have no meaning to us whatsoever.  I’ve called people my own name.  At my first therapy appt last year, the therapist was asking about family members and I couldn’t even remember if my uncle was dead or alive.  We have a close family and yet, I couldn’t remember if he’d died from his heart troubles or not.  She did mention me seeing a dr about my memory...but I forgot and haven’t been.  Anyway, all that to say, memories can be a little crazy anyway and that’s without tremendous stress added to the situation.   I’m sure he’s as stressed as he says he is.  But...still keep your eyes open.  💛

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58 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

 Any chance that he's worried about getting laid off at work?  Maybe the name slip-up isn't "I'm thinking about this affair partner", but worry that "Person X may take my job/wants to re-org my department", and that is why they were on his mind. 

 

Or being the person that has to deliver the bad news. It’s horribly stressful for managers to have to hand out pink slips. 

One of my former employers was retrenching staff after every quarter close. It was demoralizing for the remaining staff. 

If OP’s husband’s employer does year end closing in December (instead of March) then that might be another added stress of month, quarter and year end closing next week. 

Edited by Arcadia
Autocorrect error
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Oh, and there was that time I forgot my own name.

I was teaching school and was Miss Y to everyone.  I was in a new city and the only people who knew me were in the school.  I literally went weeks without someone using my first name. One day I was purchasing something and had to sign the credit card receipt with my full name and it took me about 10 seconds to remember it.

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10 hours ago, Junie said:

Oh, and there was that time I forgot my own name.

I was teaching school and was Miss Y to everyone.  I was in a new city and the only people who knew me were in the school.  I literally went weeks without someone using my first name. One day I was purchasing something and had to sign the credit card receipt with my full name and it took me about 10 seconds to remember it.

I have been divorced from my first husband for 9 years.  Remarrried to second husband for 8.....the other day I almost signed my old name.  Smh.  I mean i did have that name for 26 years....but still. 

Edited by Scarlett
27. I had that name for 28 years. See I can’t even do math.
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