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Genealogy and very old secrets


Scarlett
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YES. MAKING CONTACT WITH ANOTHER HUMAN IS POTENTIALLY HARMFUL.

It doesn't matter whether or not you mean to hurt them. What matters is that you're so selfish and self-centered that you refuse to consider the possible consequences of your action. And if this should all blow up in your face, you're going to be shocked because who could have possibly predicted that some people don't want total strangers poking their noses into their own private affairs?

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39 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Yes I meant is the woman who was living in this certain house your mother. Which is different from ‘who is your real mother. ‘

It's pretty closely the same. And it is none of your business. Leave the poor woman alone. You seem obsessed.

Edited by regentrude
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Why can't you email this lady? Or message her on Facebook? You said you have her Facebook info. Send her a message.  Don't call.  This is "how it is done" in genealogy research.  

I hope you have more proof to go on besides there was a cousin living there 3 months after the baby was adopted.   The cousin could have moved in as a boarder or a nanny to help with the baby and not be the mother at all!

You still haven't answered what you hope to gain from this, other than "truth", regardless of how much it might upset someone.  It feels almost spiteful. What will you do if this lady gets angry or cries? What if this lady never knew her mother gave away a baby? Her mother is dead, yes? So she can't get any answers from her mother now about what happened.  WHAT IF YOU ARE WRONG? Now you introduce doubt into this lady's mind about her mother and her mother's character, and the mother isn't here to defend herself. 

I really, really hope you have more evidence than a census report.  

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I keep saying but no one is listening so this will be my last post to this thread. I am not going to ask the lady anything about a baby. Good grief. I was simply going to have a general conversation about her mother and her mother’s family as it relates to genealogy.  

I probably won’t call her at all now. So yah Hive. 

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6 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I keep saying but no one is listening so this will be my last post to this thread. I am not going to ask the lady anything about a baby. Good grief. I was simply going to have a general conversation about her mother and her mother’s family as it relates to genealogy.  

I probably won’t call her at all now. So yah Hive. 

 

We are listening, but you still haven’t told us WHY you need this information and HOW it will benefit you and your son, other than filling in a blank space on the family tree. 

If you have a good reason, maybe more of us would be able to see your side of this, but right now it seems like you feel you are entitled to some kind of “truth” that most of us believe is none of your business, and that you are trying to uncover a very, very old secret simply for the sake of feeling like some sort of amateur sleuth. It doesn’t seem like you care about the elderly woman at all, nor do you want to face the very strong possibility that your call may be very upsetting or creepy to her.

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  Regardelss, all of the comments make me realize I don’t agre with you at all.   

 

pretty sure that's backwards.  you asked for people's opinion, we gave it to you - and we don't agree with you.

if you wanted everyone to agree with you - you should have posted this as a JAWM.

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37 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I keep saying but no one is listening so this will be my last post to this thread. I am not going to ask the lady anything about a baby. Good grief. I was simply going to have a general conversation about her mother and her mother’s family as it relates to genealogy.  

I probably won’t call her at all now. So yah Hive. 

 

From you, up thread. Also, if the woman is aware of a family secret, she is going to know what you are really after or might be afraid you will discover it, regardless of how you start the conversation. 

27 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

We are listening, but you still haven’t told us WHY you need this information and HOW it will benefit you and your son 

 

Or why the alternative of sending a letter, which everyone agrees would be better if you did do this, is so completely out of the question. 

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Well, I don’t know how one could have this conversation well... but here’s a few ideas about how *not* to do it...

“Hello, lovely elderly person just minding their own business at home. Thanks for taking my call. I was doing some general research about a person long ago who might or might not have had some form of extramarital sexual encounter and later walked away from an infant daughter. My son is related to that daughter. I’m suggesting that woman went on to become your mother too! Isn’t that a fun coincidence? Do you think your mother might’ve had that sort of crisis sometime before your birth? Maybe around (this year) in (this place)? Could we just sort of generally speak ill of your dead loved ones? Only in a hypothetical unprovable way, of course? I’d appreciate that, because I’m a curious type of person pursuing a hobby. And because I love my son and data is my love language! What? Really? Suggesting your mother might-or-might-not have a checkered past or a deep traumatic crisis that she never told you about — you find that confusing and upsetting? Well, don’t worry. After all, you wouldn’t have any memories about it, and one’s mother’s sexual history is only genealogy after all! At least it’s dry data to me. If these suggestions colour all of your memories of you mother and your childhood — oh well. That’s up to you, I guess? No, I don’t have any proof of my suggestions. Pretty much you will just have to wonder until you die. Thanks for helping with my research! Bye-bye, now.”

Edited by bolt.
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55 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I keep saying but no one is listening so this will be my last post to this thread. I am not going to ask the lady anything about a baby. Good grief. I was simply going to have a general conversation about her mother and her mother’s family as it relates to genealogy.  

I probably won’t call her at all now. So yah Hive. 

I hope you won't call. At this point, to me, it isn't important why you don't call. But I do wish you'll come around to thinking that you're doing it (not calling) to avoid potentially causing someone else pain. 

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Scarlett, I generally think that you get treated pretty roughly on here but in this case, I side with the board.

I understand the desire for truth but have come to a realization, truth is not the highest value. Have you heard the maxim- is it true, is it kind, is it helpful, is it necessary? This quest maybe about the truth but it is not necessary, kind, or helpful. Sometimes a desire for truth can be selfish and hurtful. And biology is not just the facts, our moral code makes all sorts of judgments on biology (homosexuality, sex before marriage, babies out of wedlock, sex in general, etc) and older people are from a different time.

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2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Yes I meant is the woman who was living in this certain house your mother. Which is different from ‘who is your real mother. ‘

 

now you're argument semantics.  same difference.

2 hours ago, Frances said:

But many, many others are telling you about different experiences and you seem unwilling or unable to comprehend what they are saying. Or you just don’t care. You say you would welcome such a call and she might be thrilled by it. What if instead, it’s so upsetting that it causes a medical crisis? You may not even know any of the long term ramifications of your phone call. 

 

If you’re so sure that you know the exact correct approach to calling and talking to her without causing harm, then why were you asking for our advice on how to do it in the first place? I think you do know that putting your desires above the well being of this woman is wrong and you simply don’t care.

I will be so bold as to say, I think she's enjoying the salaciousness of it.

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2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I am on my phone and can’t rrply to everyone, but I would like to say to all of you who are so harsh with me thank you for helping me see. It from another perspective. 

I do intend to be very gentle and discreet. I wasn’t going to say hey I think you are my MILs half sister.

Rather I intend to tell her I am researching X family and a woman with last name Z showed as living with X family. She was listed as a cousin to the head of household and I am trying to make that connection. 

Because in spite of the suspicion we have maybe she was just a cousin. 

I have a brain enough to not keep on if I feel she is upset in any way. 

And for every story you all tell about how upsetting this is I can tell a story about how happy or interested a person is. 

I felt a little defensive reading all of  your posts but in reality I recognize  we may never know the answer to all of these unknowns. 

If she wanted to have this discussion she’d take the test herself and be in the database. At this point it’s pretty safe to assume if someone hasn’t tested that they have opted not to be part of this sort of inquiry at this time. It’s possible that she’ll test in the future. Wait for her to step into the conversation before questioning her.

The truth exists whether you know it or not. You have no connection to this and no need to know. Curiosity is not a need and failing to pursue this doesn’t make you an enemy of The Truth. 

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1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

I keep saying but no one is listening so this will be my last post to this thread. I am not going to ask the lady anything about a baby. Good grief. I was simply going to have a general conversation about her mother and her mother’s family as it relates to genealogy.  

I probably won’t call her at all now. So yah Hive. 

I don't understand how this would help your research any way.  If all you want to ask her is about her mother and the family she lived with, that doesn't tell you anything about MIL, so why bother?

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I want to say something else I meant to say before and forgot: Your son does know who his great-grandmother is. She is the woman who adopted and raised his grandmother. Just because she wasn't that woman's biological mother does not mean she's not her mother, his father's grandmother and, perforce, your son's great-grandmother.

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Yeah, I think alling this lady is inappropriate.  As is giving her a letter. 

This isn't really about uncovering the "truth".  The past is full of things we don't know about.  In most cases, it's not important to root out all of these things.  If the people are all long dead, well, whatever.  This is a different thing, no one is being hurt by this as it stands.  

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So, I didn't read every single post, but I did get the gist of the whole Scarlett vs the board conversation and I gotta say - I am.....confused and surprised...

People reach out to unknown family members all the time.  It's just a thing right now.  There are commercials for Ancestry DNA on TV every 5 minutes.  To think that someone doesn't want to be found bc they didn't put their DNA into the system or someone would be upset talking about the past simply because.....actually I haven't figure out why everyone thinks this 84 yr old would absolutely, unequivocally be upset...   That is such a stretch.

If done with tact and grace, this could be a very interesting conversation and  may be future relationship between 2 half-sister.  who knows??

But I just don't see how it so hurtful and wrong to even try to reach out to this person.  And I actually would prefer a phone call than some letter.  But again, no one really knows except that 84 yr old woman

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12 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

So, I didn't read every single post, but I did get the gist of the whole Scarlett vs the board conversation and I gotta say - I am.....confused and surprised...

People reach out to unknown family members all the time.  It's just a thing right now.  There are commercials for Ancestry DNA on TV every 5 minutes.  To think that someone doesn't want to be found bc they didn't put their DNA into the system or someone would be upset talking about the past simply because.....actually I haven't figure out why everyone thinks this 84 yr old would absolutely, unequivocally be upset...   That is such a stretch.

If done with tact and grace, this could be a very interesting conversation and  may be future relationship between 2 half-sister.  who knows??

But I just don't see how it so hurtful and wrong to even try to reach out to this person.  And I actually would prefer a phone call than some letter.  But again, no one really knows except that 84 yr old woman

Because the subject matter of the conversation would not be, "Are you my relative?" but actually an attempt to dig up a skeleton in the history on a topic that back then was often painful, and kept quiet, family privacy being paramount. Just because you might be related to someone doesn't give you the right to go nose diving for intimate details of a person's life and especially so when those details don't have a direct effect on your life.

Beyond that, there are numerous scams out there calling the elderly and claiming one thing or another, attempting to get personal information on them. I have warned my mother and mother in law over and over and over again to hang up on phone calls from strangers asking personal questions, wanting information, claiming to know them or their relatives. It is a very dangerous thing to give out personal information over the phone. 

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6 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Because the subject matter of the conversation would not be, "Are you my relative?" but actually an attempt to dig up a skeleton in the history on a topic that back then was often painful, and kept quiet, family privacy being paramount. Just because you might be related to someone doesn't give you the right to go nose diving for intimate details of a person's life and especially so when those details don't have a direct effect on your life.

Beyond that, there are numerous scams out there calling the elderly and claiming one thing or another, attempting to get personal information on them. I have warned my mother and mother in law over and over and over again to hang up on phone calls from strangers asking personal questions, wanting information, claiming to know them or their relatives. It is a very dangerous thing to give out personal information over the phone. 

What does it even mean "doesn't give you the right"??  Right to what?  Ask a question?  Find out if they are family??  No one would start a conversation with "hey, found your name, let's talk dirt about your mother.  Let me see how much gossip I can collect"

A fairly general - "I was doing some family history search, your name came up and I and wonder if we might be related " conversation starter - is neither hurtful nor intrusive and certainly not harmful.  A person on another end can simply say "no", "not interested" or just hang up.  But the initial phone call is certainly not a crime that people on this thread making it out to be.

As far as your second point - yes, I can completely see that and would agree.  But again, in today's world, people are searching for all kinds of family members, so what are they to do?

 

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Oh boy!  Just a little humor here....Can you imagine this thread in say 60 or so years from now with all this trans stuff?    "I was doing some genealogy research and what...?   Uncle Pat is actually Aunt Patricia?  No one ever told me that, I have a right to know!"    Now that could be opening up a can of worms!  You know,  sometimes people do have a right to privacy...

I think it's time to just let this thread die!

 

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6 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

So, I didn't read every single post, but I did get the gist of the whole Scarlett vs the board conversation and I gotta say - I am.....confused and surprised...

People reach out to unknown family members all the time.  It's just a thing right now.  There are commercials for Ancestry DNA on TV every 5 minutes.  To think that someone doesn't want to be found bc they didn't put their DNA into the system or someone would be upset talking about the past simply because.....actually I haven't figure out why everyone thinks this 84 yr old would absolutely, unequivocally be upset...   That is such a stretch.

If done with tact and grace, this could be a very interesting conversation and  may be future relationship between 2 half-sister.  who knows??

But I just don't see how it so hurtful and wrong to even try to reach out to this person.  And I actually would prefer a phone call than some letter.  But again, no one really knows except that 84 yr old woman

 

The reason people think she may be upset is because the question Scarlett really wants answered is "Did your mother give birth to an illegitimate child as a teenager that she secretly gave up for adoption?"  You don't think an 84 yr old woman who is put on the spot by getting a call out of the blue from a complete stranger could possibly be upset about that? No one is saying she will absolutely unequivocally be upset, but the risk is obvious. Several people have shared that they, or their relatives, would be very upset to receive such a call. 

I once had to do a genealogy project for a sociology class, and I asked my grandfather's cousin what his mother's name was. She had the same last name as he did, so I asked what her maiden name was, and he said "That is her maiden name." When I asked what his father's name was, he very angrily said "Stop asking so many questions!" and walked out. I later found out (from an aunt who had once overheard my grandfather talking about it) that his mother was an unmarried Catholic girl in a predominantly Protestant area of Northern Ireland, and she refused to name the father, so he never knew who his father was. He was in his 60s at the time and it was obviously still a VERY painful subject for him. I'm sure if someone had called him out of the blue asking questions about his mother he would have been extremely upset and probably would have told her to go to hell and hung up on her. 

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1 minute ago, Corraleno said:

 

The reason people think she may be upset is because the question Scarlett really wants answered is "Did your mother give birth to an illegitimate child as a teenager that she secretly gave up for adoption?"  You don't think an 84 yr old woman who is put on the spot by getting a call out of the blue from a complete stranger could possibly be upset about that? No one is saying she will absolutely unequivocally be upset, but the risk is obvious. Several people have shared that they, or their relatives, would be very upset to receive such a call. 

I once had to do a genealogy project for a sociology class, and I asked my grandfather's cousin what his mother's name was. She had the same last name as he did, so I asked what her maiden name was, and he said "That is her maiden name." When I asked what his father's name was, he very angrily said "Stop asking so many questions!" and walked out. I later found out (from an aunt who had once overheard my grandfather talking about it) that his mother was an unmarried Catholic girl in a predominantly Protestant area of Northern Ireland, and she refused to name the father, so he never knew who his father was. He was in his 60s at the time and it was obviously still a VERY painful subject for him. I'm sure if someone had called him out of the blue asking questions about his mother he would have been extremely upset and probably would have told her to go to hell and hung up on her. 

This.

The person we responded to should have taken the time to read the whole thread. The information that the OP is seeking is not innocent. .

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What does it even mean "doesn't give you the right"??  Right to what?  Ask a question?  Find out if they are family??  No one would start a conversation with "hey, found your name, let's talk dirt about your mother.  Let me see how much gossip I can collect"

 

But they're not family. She's trying to find her ex-husband's long-lost biological grandma. Which means that even if contacting this woman is a good idea, the correct person to do so is her ex-husband or their son.

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1 hour ago, SereneHome said:

So, I didn't read every single post, but I did get the gist of the whole Scarlett vs the board conversation and I gotta say - I am.....confused and surprised...

People reach out to unknown family members all the time.  It's just a thing right now.  There are commercials for Ancestry DNA on TV every 5 minutes.  To think that someone doesn't want to be found bc they didn't put their DNA into the system or someone would be upset talking about the past simply because.....actually I haven't figure out why everyone thinks this 84 yr old would absolutely, unequivocally be upset...   That is such a stretch.

If done with tact and grace, this could be a very interesting conversation and  may be future relationship between 2 half-sister.  who knows??

But I just don't see how it so hurtful and wrong to even try to reach out to this person.  And I actually would prefer a phone call than some letter.  But again, no one really knows except that 84 yr old woman

I don’t think anyone said she would absolutely be upset. But the potential is definitely there. Scarlett herself said the whole situation is very traumatizing for her MIL. And others shared stories of pain and upset. And simply because it’s the in thing right now to find out about your ancestry, it doesn’t make it right to call a complete stranger out of the blue and start asking questions about their mom. And given all of the unscrupulous people who prey on the elderly, I definitely don’t think a phone call is the way to go. A letter puts the ball in the woman’s court and gives her more control over the situation. And hopefully she’s like many people I know and doesn’t answer the phone if she doesn’t recognize the number calling. And it seems like it would be better coming from the ex-MIL, ex-husband, or son, one of the blood relatives.

Edited to add would Scarlett’s ex-MIL even want a relationship? She said the whole situation was so traumatizing for her that she could not be the one to make contact. 

Edited by Frances
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17 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

What does it even mean "doesn't give you the right"??  Right to what?  Ask a question?  Find out if they are family??  No one would start a conversation with "hey, found your name, let's talk dirt about your mother.  Let me see how much gossip I can collect"

A fairly general - "I was doing some family history search, your name came up and I and wonder if we might be related " conversation starter - is neither hurtful nor intrusive and certainly not harmful.  A person on another end can simply say "no", "not interested" or just hang up.  But the initial phone call is certainly not a crime that people on this thread making it out to be.

One of the issues here is that Scarlett is not related to this woman — at best this woman may be a half-sister of Scarlett's ex-MIL, so the only connection to Scarlett is that this woman may possibly be a great-half-aunt to her son. Why does her curiosity about a distant relative of her son trump an 84 year old woman's right to privacy? What if they are related and this woman had no idea that her mother had an illegitimate child that was put up for adoption, and now she is horrified and traumatized that her mother kept this secret, and now has a million questions about it that no one can ever answer? What if Scarlett's ex-MIL was the product of rape or incest — is that really helpful to know??? The fact that this has been a secret for 80+ years may indicate that the people involved really truly wanted to keep it that way. Why open that can of worms and risk hurting people, for no other reason than a slightly salacious sense of curiosity? Its not like Scarlett is desperately trying to find an organ donor match or something. 

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12 minutes ago, Frances said:

I don’t think anyone said she would absolutely be upset. But the potential is definitely there. Scarlett herself said the whole situation is very traumatizing for her MIL. And others shared stories of pain and upset. And simply because it’s the in thing right now to find out about your ancestry, it doesn’t make it right to call a complete stranger out of the blue and start asking questions about their mom. And given all of the unscrupulous people who prey on the elderly, I definitely don’t think a phone call is the way to go. A letter puts the ball in the woman’s court and gives her more control over the situation. And hopefully she’s like many people I know and doesn’t answer the phone if she doesn’t recognize the number calling. And it seems like it would be better coming from the ex-MIL, ex-husband, or son, one of the blood relatives.

Edited to add would Scarlett’s ex-MIL even want a relationship? She said the whole situation was so traumatizing for her that she could not be the one to make contact. 

 

I guess that's the bottom line - *I* don't think anyone would be so brazen is to call and ask such questions from the get go .  I think what people typically do is start with general questions and go from there.  And THAT'S to me is just fine.  In most instances it's fairly evident if the person on another end of the question wants to continue or not.  And I don't think it has anything to do with rights at all. 

I don't know back stories of anyone, I was just commenting that idea of someone calling to find out if they are, in fact, a half-sister of MIL, mother, grandmother does not equate to dragging that person to some dirty old secrets and trying to cause them harm.  And that's the tone that I got from this entire thread - painting OP as some kind of villain. 

I am certainly not going to go another 3 pages debating this. I should hope we all have the right to express our opinions and POVs.

 

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9 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

One of the issues here is that Scarlett is not related to this woman — at best this woman may be a half-sister of Scarlett's ex-MIL, so the only connection to Scarlett is that this woman may possibly be a great-half-aunt to her son. Why does her curiosity about a distant relative of her son trump an 84 year old woman's right to privacy? What if they are related and this woman had no idea that her mother had an illegitimate child that was put up for adoption, and now she is horrified and traumatized that her mother kept this secret, and now has a million questions about it that no one can ever answer? What if Scarlett's ex-MIL was the product of rape or incest — is that really helpful to know??? The fact that this has been a secret for 80+ years may indicate that the people involved really truly wanted to keep it that way. Why open that can of worms and risk hurting people, for no other reason than a slightly salacious sense of curiosity? Its not like Scarlett is desperately trying to find an organ donor match or something. 

Based on what I read on this thread and this thread only (again, I don't know anyone's back stories) it seems that OP is the one doing the genealogy with the blessing of her ex-husband.  So it seems that was the reason she was going to call.  I just didn't read OP as Scarlett  being the nosy old busy buddy trying to harm a fragile 84 yr old stranger to satisfy her selfish curiosity.

As far as hurting people - it seems that MIL would be the one hurt, not this newly found half-sister - since it's implied that she might be the product of rape or incest.  In which case, the whole debate leaves me even more confused.  But that's OK.  Not everything in this world is meant for me to understand 🙂

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18 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

Based on what I read on this thread and this thread only (again, I don't know anyone's back stories) it seems that OP is the one doing the genealogy with the blessing of her ex-husband.  So it seems that was the reason she was going to call.  I just didn't read OP as Scarlett  being the nosy old busy buddy trying to harm a fragile 84 yr old stranger to satisfy her selfish curiosity.

As far as hurting people - it seems that MIL would be the one hurt, not this newly found half-sister - since it's implied that she might be the product of rape or incest.  In which case, the whole debate leaves me even more confused.  But that's OK.  Not everything in this world is meant for me to understand 🙂

I would suggest you read more comments.  scarlett is getting into a case of possible child born outside wedlock.  with suggestions of infidelity.  this isn't "just" genealogy.

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2 hours ago, SereneHome said:

So, I didn't read every single post, but I did get the gist of the whole Scarlett vs the board conversation and I gotta say - I am.....confused and surprised...

People reach out to unknown family members all the time.  It's just a thing right now.  There are commercials for Ancestry DNA on TV every 5 minutes.  To think that someone doesn't want to be found bc they didn't put their DNA into the system or someone would be upset talking about the past simply because.....actually I haven't figure out why everyone thinks this 84 yr old would absolutely, unequivocally be upset...   That is such a stretch.

If done with tact and grace, this could be a very interesting conversation and  may be future relationship between 2 half-sister.  who knows??

But I just don't see how it so hurtful and wrong to even try to reach out to this person.  And I actually would prefer a phone call than some letter.  But again, no one really knows except that 84 yr old woman

It's precisely because the commercials are on every five minutes and it's so easy to get yourself on the database that you should respect the privacy of those who do not participate. If she wanted to be contacted, it would be easy enough to opt in.  The people who didn't opt in should be left alone until they decide to do so. Just check back in a year and see if she joined the club.  

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22 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

It's precisely because the commercials are on every five minutes and it's so easy to get yourself on the database that you should respect the privacy of those who do not participate. If she wanted to be contacted, it would be easy enough to opt in.  The people who didn't opt in should be left alone until they decide to do so. Just check back in a year and see if she joined the club.  

I disagree.  There are different reasons as to why people might not participate.  So, "you" can't make a blanket statement that if someone is not on it, they don't want to be reached.

Like I said before, different perspectives,  different opinions

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50 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

I would suggest you read more comments.  scarlett is getting into a case of possible child born outside wedlock.  with suggestions of infidelity.  this isn't "just" genealogy.

I did read that part.  But again, the person possibly born out of wedlock is Scarlet's MIL, correct?  So, if anyone would be hurt, it would be MIL.  How does calling MIL's half sister with some initial general questions makes this a crime?

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There is no proof that this woman is anything other than a daughter of the grandmother’s cousin. It is  Scarlett’s supposition based on the cousin  living there for a period of time that she could have been her MIL’s unwed bio mom. I think that is a pretty big leap with no real proof pointing to it. If she did contact the woman and she said that her mother was a cousin- then what?  Ask for proof?  Call her family ties into question?

 

 

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I did the genealogy for my adopted MIL.  She was adopted out, while some of the kids were kept, so it was a mess.  I would not contact this woman.  I will always have questions, but that is all they will ever be.  There is no pressing medical question that I need to ask, so there is no reason for me to know what happened, because face it, there is no medical question that can't be answered these days with all the DNA and genetic testing available.

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22 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Well no one is required to discus anything with anyone,  

Is there a single person in this thread that has said, god bless, go forth and call this random person and fling your search for your truth over them? No. I don’t think you’re willing to take a clue. Might I  suggest another hobby that doesn’t involve cold-calling octogenarians? 

Edited by madteaparty
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54 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

I did read that part.  But again, the person possibly born out of wedlock is Scarlet's MIL, correct?  So, if anyone would be hurt, it would be MIL.  How does calling MIL's half sister with some initial general questions makes this a crime? 

 

Don't be so hyperbolic. Nobody suggested it was a 'crime'. We just suggested it was rude and possibly upsetting for this old woman to eventually hear that her mother may have had another child before her, one possibly born out of wedlock (perhaps in some traumatic situation) and that no, she couldn't meet her half-sister because the woman found the entire story so awful that she didn't want to talk about it ever.

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2 hours ago, SereneHome said:

I did read that part.  But again, the person possibly born out of wedlock is Scarlet's MIL, correct?  So, if anyone would be hurt, it would be MIL.  How does calling MIL's half sister with some initial general questions makes this a crime?

How do you know what this woman does or doesn’t know about her mom and a possible half sister and whether or not she will be upset or hurt? Many people have shared family stories about people, especially elderly relatives, being upset, ashamed, or embarrassed about family secrets for which they bear no responsibility. Scarlett is trying to ascertain if this woman’s mother had a child out of wedlock before having her and then lived with the father of the child and his wife. This woman may know everything or nothing. This could be upsetting, traumatizing, welcome, exciting, or shocking news to this woman. None of us know. That is why we are urging caution and putting the well being of this woman ahead of any personal desire Scarlett has to know this information or any quest for the “truth”.

And she does not know this woman is her ex-MIL’s half sister, it is just a working theory. And unless she either agrees to a DNA test or knows the whole story, I don’t see what information Scarlett is really going to get anyway.

Edited by Frances
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1 hour ago, melmichigan said:

I did the genealogy for my adopted MIL.  She was adopted out, while some of the kids were kept, so it was a mess.  I would not contact this woman.  I will always have questions, but that is all they will ever be.  There is no pressing medical question that I need to ask, so there is no reason for me to know what happened, because face it, there is no medical question that can't be answered these days with all the DNA and genetic testing available.

Very true.  My husband's bio father gave up his parental rights.  DH was adopted by his step-father.  I did a tiny bit of genealogy research into DH's bio dad and found out some information that was shocking, so shocking that I set the whole project aside and looked no further.  

Then we got a call a year or two later from a long-lost half-brother and the whole story blew up in DH's face.  

The whole thing was a mess.  There were a lot of big emotions and none of it involved a happy, tearful reunion of long lost "family".  I can't say that anyone is better off for knowing "the truth".  

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1 hour ago, Frances said:

How do you know what this woman does or doesn’t know about her mom and a possible half sister and whether or not she will be upset or hurt? Many people have shared family stories about people, especially elderly relatives, being upset, ashamed, or embarrassed about family secrets for which they bear no responsibility. Scarlett is trying to ascertain if this woman’s mother had a child out of wedlock before having her and then lived with the father of the child and his wife. This woman may know everything or nothing. This could be upsetting, traumatizing, welcome, exciting, or shocking news to this woman. None of us know. That is why we are urging caution and putting the well being of this woman ahead of any personal desire Scarlett has to know this information or any quest for the “truth”.

And she does not know this woman is her ex-MIL’s half sister, it is just a working theory. And unless she either agrees to a DNA test or knows the whole story, I don’t see what information Scarlett is really going to get anyway.

OK, so I really don't know why I am still going back and forth on this, but what the heck...

Obviously, there are all kinds of way this situation could go forward. I came into this thread pretty much at the end of it and from my  perspective the tone of the entire discussion did not sound as "hey, Scarlet, you might want to be careful doing this bc of A, B and C"  It sound like "Scarlett!  How dare are YOU, for your own selfish reasons even consider doing something that could be so very harmful to this poor 84 yr old woman. And btw, who the hell are you do even consider it, since you are no longer married to this man and you shouldn't have anything to do with  his family.  Shame on you!"

I didn't think it was right or fair or  necessary, bc didn't sound like Scarlett was going into full offensive of bombarding this woman with needless, tactless questions.  It just seemed like OP asked a question and then the whole thing was blown way out of proportion and some of the posts were quite unkind to OP.  So, I posted my opinion, that's all.

 

 

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1 hour ago, SereneHome said:

OK, so I really don't know why I am still going back and forth on this, but what the heck...

Obviously, there are all kinds of way this situation could go forward. I came into this thread pretty much at the end of it and from my  perspective the tone of the entire discussion did not sound as "hey, Scarlet, you might want to be careful doing this bc of A, B and C"  It sound like "Scarlett!  How dare are YOU, for your own selfish reasons even consider doing something that could be so very harmful to this poor 84 yr old woman. And btw, who the hell are you do even consider it, since you are no longer married to this man and you shouldn't have anything to do with  his family.  Shame on you!"

I didn't think it was right or fair or  necessary, bc didn't sound like Scarlett was going into full offensive of bombarding this woman with needless, tactless questions.  It just seemed like OP asked a question and then the whole thing was blown way out of proportion and some of the posts were quite unkind to OP.  So, I posted my opinion, that's all.

 

 

Because she seemed completely unconcerned about whether or not this could be a bad experience for the woman. She said needed to find out the “truth” and couldn’t seem to grasp or didn’t care that others might feel differently or the possible bad outcomes of such a phone call or inquiry. She seemed to be seeing it in very black and white terms. She needed this information in order to reveal the truth and this woman might have it, so therefore she was going to call her no matter what. I might have missed it, but I don’t recall her expressing any concern about the effect such a phone call might have on the woman, except trying to reassure us she would handle things appropriately during the call. Which is ironic given that she was originally asking us how to handle the call. I think the advice and tone started out more mild, but escalated due to her seemingly callous disregard for the elderly stranger. Or just complete inability to see a different point of view.

And many people urged her to write if she absolutely had to do something and she gave some nonsense answer about not being sure the message would reach her despite having her address and Facebook page. Of course I don’t expect her to bombard her with questions, but I’m not sure how she’s going to get to the information she wants without asking some potentially very uncomfortable questions and possibly revealing some pretty shocking information to this woman. Even saying she thinks the woman might be related to her son would seem to potentially open up a whole can of worms.

Edited by Frances
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7 hours ago, SereneHome said:

Obviously, there are all kinds of way this situation could go forward. I came into this thread pretty much at the end of it and from my  perspective the tone of the entire discussion did not sound as "hey, Scarlet, you might want to be careful doing this bc of A, B and C"  It sound like "Scarlett!  How dare are YOU, for your own selfish reasons even consider doing something that could be so very harmful to this poor 84 yr old woman.  And btw, who the hell are you do even consider it, since you are no longer married to this man and you shouldn't have anything to do with  his family.  Shame on you!"

So you missed all the times that Scarlett responded to suggestions that she be careful, take this woman's feelings into account, write a letter instead of a call out of the blue, etc., with claims that her son has the right to this information, that uncovering the TRUTH is always good, that secrets are bad and should be exposed, that she wouldn't be upset about this kind of information so why would anyone else? It was her absolute refusal to acknowledge that this information could be very hurtful and upsetting for an 84 yr old woman — and that this woman's feelings should count for something — that led to the "tone" you were hearing when you decided to pop in at the very end of the thread to chastise everyone else.

As for the comments about Scarlett being unrelated — I presume you also missed the parts where Scarlett admitted that her MIL is terribly traumatized by her past and is NOT the one who is driving this process. Her MIL and ex-husband "don't object" to her getting this info, but she is not contacting this woman for their sake. This is information Scarlett wants, for her own reasons, not something her MIL has been desperate to know all her life. In fact, opening this can of worms is far more likely to turn up information that will further traumatize her MIL, not help anyone. The actual relatives of this 84 year old are not the ones who are desperate for the information. 

This whole quest to uncover a long-buried secret risks causing two elderly women a lot of pain and further trauma for no reason other than to satisfy Scarlett's curiosity and let her fill in a blank on her son's family tree. There is no risk of Scarlett being hurt or traumatized, and she seems determined to get what she wants regardless of the potential cost to other people. 

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I have read most of this thread and I am still confused about the geneology here. I understand that there was an adopted baby in a home where a cousin was also living and (if I understand correctly) Scarlett believes the adopted baby to be the bio child of the cousin. But who is he 84 year old woman? The baby? Or the cousin? Or someone else entirely? And how is exMIL related? 

To Scarlett-- is this woman near enough to visit in person? I would imagine that in meeting her and developing some kind of relationship with her, you would be able to ascertain if she is mentally and emotionally capable of handling the questions you want to ask. You might decide you're better off not asking. Or you might be able to build a relationship with her and she would be willing to share those details with you.

 

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34 minutes ago, DesertBlossom said:

I have read most of this thread and I am still confused about the geneology here. I understand that there was an adopted baby in a home where a cousin was also living and (if I understand correctly) Scarlett believes the adopted baby to be the bio child of the cousin. But who is he 84 year old woman? The baby? Or the cousin? Or someone else entirely? And how is exMIL related? 

To Scarlett-- is this woman near enough to visit in person? I would imagine that in meeting her and developing some kind of relationship with her, you would be able to ascertain if she is mentally and emotionally capable of handling the questions you want to ask. You might decide you're better off not asking. Or you might be able to build a relationship with her and she would be willing to share those details with you.

 

The 84 yr old is the child of the woman who was living in the adoptive parents' home (listed as a cousin of the father on the census) when Scarlett's ex-MIL was adopted as a baby. Scarlett suspects that this "cousin," who is the bio mother of the 84 yr old, was also the bio mother of the adopted baby (although there does not seem to be any evidence for that other than the fact that she was living in the house at the time).

 

Edited by Corraleno
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