Your opinion on teacher’s policy re: bathroom

[RootAnn]

1 hour ago, Lady Florida. said:

I think unless one has to go it's a body thing. My body won't let me go when I'm away from home for a while and yes, that can get uncomfortable. I've had to take something to help if we're gone for more than a few days. We had a dog who used to travel with us and he wouldn't poop while we were gone, or he'd only go occasionally. As soon as we'd get home he would go out into the yard and start dropping poop mines everywhere. To this day we joke about it when anyone in the family has to go #2 after coming home from a trip. We call it pooping like Dingo. 

I worked with a guy who would only go #2 at home. His body was set to go before work, then he'd head home over lunch for another 'sit', then he'd go when he got home, if necessary. This was an adult working schedule, post-military. I definitely know people like this.

As to the above phenomemna, my DD#2 dog-sits for a pup that did this, but once he got used to our family and the routine at our house, he resumed his normal schedule.

We are blessed with three toilets in our house. There are times, coming home from a trip like mentioned above, when there is a literal rush for the bathrooms and lines form. And no one wants to be rushed. It would be incredibly difficult to 'hold it' on our 12+ hour car journeys. In fact, we encourage the utilization of the 'last civilized toilet' before reaching our primitive camp grounds in North Dakota. The bucket toilet we have now is a luxury. 

[Bluegoat]

15 hours ago, Corraleno said:

How does that work? Do people who work full time really manage to schedule their intestinal processes in a way that ensures they never ever have to go during work hours? If you're out shopping and need to go, do you just jump in the car and head home ASAP? Do you ever travel by air? Or even take long car trips? I can't imagine trying to schedule my life in such a way that I never ever have to use a public bathroom for #2.

I'm really curious about the reasoning behind it. Is it a germ thing? (Although aren't the same germs there even if you just go in to pee?)

 

I don't think it's much to do with deciding to poop at a different time, or even scheduling.  It's more about when the body things conditions are appropriate.  Lots of people need a clean or quiet environment to even feel the urge to poop - I have an uncle who for many years couldn't poop if anyone else was in the upstairs part of the house.  The only time I'd do it is if I am away for an extended time, but it's not because I plan it that way.

 I think i's a  bit like a horse, or even a person, who is pregnant - they generally won't go into labour until things are safe and calm.  Now, sure, if they are never safe and calm, eventually things will happen anyway.  But most people are home enough hours of the day to poop there.

I suspect that most people don't poop at work if they are in a job with regular hours - though I don't know that anyone has ever tried to collect data on that!

[Pen]

19 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

 

I don't think it's much to do with deciding to poop at a different time, or even scheduling.  It's more about when the body things conditions are appropriate.  Lots of people need a clean or quiet environment to even feel the urge to poop - I have an uncle who for many years couldn't poop if anyone else was in the upstairs part of the house.  The only time I'd do it is if I am away for an extended time, but it's not because I plan it that way.

 I think i's a  bit like a horse, or even a person, who is pregnant - they generally won't go into labour until things are safe and calm.  Now, sure, if they are never safe and calm, eventually things will happen anyway.  But most people are home enough hours of the day to poop there.

I suspect that most people don't poop at work if they are in a job with regular hours - though I don't know that anyone has ever tried to collect data on that!

 

No.  I don’t either.  But I know a doctor who told me that he had to choose an office type practice so he could go to lavatory frequently as that was a physical problem for him (urinary), rather than a surgical specialty where having to leave in the middle of a surgery and get redressed, rescrubbed etc was not feasible as the time lost could endanger  someone.  There could be quite a few people choosing work fields for reasons like this, but not mentioned because our society has made that a taboo subject  .  

It could also have public health implications if it involves agriculture workers not being enough time to use toilets and thoroughly wash their hands  

However, I suspect that a lot of people (as with a lot of adult dogs) become able to meet a once or twice per day poop schedule that usually doesn’t have to be during classes or work time. 

[Katy]

Wow, I remember thinking it was really stupid that my high school had three lunch periods and the first one started at like 10:30am, but we all got 45 minutes plus the 5 minutes before & after, so no one ever had this issue.  Also, by high school they generally trusted us to manage our own bodies and go whenever we needed.

I've always been the type to go 3 times a day, the urge is fast, I'm done quickly.  The only exception is when fasting or in the 6 weeks after giving birth.  I suspect that's a family trait. I could probably be diagnosed with irritable bowel, but as long as I avoid corn syrup and onions I'm generally fine.

I think I would pretty much demand the school make an exception for my child and not worry about the other kids.

[Pen]

There could also be gut microbiome matters involved. 

[Clemsondana]

I'm not going to offer an opinion on bathroom frequency, but I will say that, although these may be good kids, that doesn't preclude them being difficult in the classroom.  I've had around 150 students over the years at co-op, and all of them have been good kids individually. But, there have been times when a small group of them was very difficult to deal with.  We had one group that caused problems in every class that they were in, all day long, to the point that other students complained.  The board chose to address it with all involved families and it improved.  But, for a time, co-op rules became much more strictly enforced.  I'd imagine that the same was happening in individual classrooms.  I think in those situations, it's not teachers on a power trip - they're dealing with almost a 'mob mentality' (clearly not violent or anything like that, just people behaving very differently in a group than they do individually).  Even in those circumstances, where we tightened up rules that were being abused (like about eating in class) we would always make need-based accommodations, but we needed to know about them in order to do something.  So, I'd advocate you or your son speaking to the teacher (or sending a note) and seeing if you can find a workable solution.  

[EmseB]

43 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

 

I suspect that most people don't poop at work if they are in a job with regular hours - though I don't know that anyone has ever tried to collect data on that!

 

When I was working there was a running joke about a of people that did because they were "getting paid to poop". This was an office job.

[SKL]

One of my kids used to be incredibly predictable about needing to poop upon taking her first bite at the dinner table - usually when my first bite of food was halfway to my mouth.  It was a family joke.  When she was little (needing assistance in the bathroom), I was like that mom in A Christmas Story who never ate a hot meal, LOL.

I don't notice this any more.  I do remember the first time we were at a restaurant and we got through the whole meal without a potty interruption.  😛  I assume that as she got older, she figured out how to manage it for convenience.

But I do understand there are those who can't.  I had an adult friend who seriously asked how anyone can possibly hold #2 for later.

On the other hand, I have friends who can actually decide what time of the day they are going to have a bowel movement.  How convenient that must be.  😛

[TABmom]

I would be very irritated with the teacher's response and I would go to the school and talk to him face to face. I would tell him that my child needed to be free to use the restroom as needed. I would tell him that even though my child was male, I was also concerned about female students in his class that are NOT going  to want to tell a male teacher that they have started their period unexpectedly and need to go out a tampon in. If I did not get an adequate response from the teacher, I would be in the administration offices on my way out. Seriously, kids/teens do not need to deal with this. And I say that as a previous public school teacher who had a kid who did have to poop every day during math and he was not quick about it. I had to give him his own minilessons on a regular basis. But not letting a kid go to the bathroom was not a solution. I also say this as a kid who never, ever used the bathroom at school even to pee. I wasn't specifically trying to hold it- but my body couldn't relax in a public bathroom.

As an adult, I can use public bathrooms to pee, but I have to be pretty desperate to poop in public. Most of the time my body just shuts off the urge when I am out- even when travelling for multiple days. 

[Bluegoat]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

No.  I don’t either.  But I know a doctor who told me that he had to choose an office type practice so he could go to lavatory frequently as that was a physical problem for him (urinary), rather than a surgical specialty where having to leave in the middle of a surgery and get redressed, rescrubbed etc was not feasible as the time lost could endanger  someone.  There could be quite a few people choosing work fields for reasons like this, but not mentioned because our society has made that a taboo subject  .  

It could also have public health implications if it involves agriculture workers not being enough time to use toilets and thoroughly wash their hands  

However, I suspect that a lot of people (as with a lot of adult dogs) become able to meet a once or twice per day poop schedule that usually doesn’t have to be during classes or work time. 

 

Yeah, there are really quite a lot of jobs where it is just not possible to go whenever you might feel the urge.  Not just exploitative type ones.  

I think agricultural workers probably have time, they are the ones who get less pay if they do less, usually. Lack of facilities can be a problem though.  My first job when I was 12 was picking strawberries, I think we got 12 cents a box, and you had to hike quite a way to get to the outhouse in some of the fields.  Most people went in the woods.  One time I went and somehow walked out on fallen trees covered in moss, thinking it was solid, and kind of fell through with my pants down.  It took me a while to extricate myself and I have lichen in my underpants all day.

[Lady Florida.]

27 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

 

Yeah, there are really quite a lot of jobs where it is just not possible to go whenever you might feel the urge.  Not just exploitative type ones.  

 

Ironically, considering the original topic of this thread, teaching is one of those jobs. 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Lady Florida.

[GoodGrief]

4 hours ago, Lady Florida. said:

I think unless one has to go it's a body thing. My body won't let me go when I'm away from home for a while and yes, that can get uncomfortable. I've had to take something to help if we're gone for more than a few days. We had a dog who used to travel with us and he wouldn't poop while we were gone, or he'd only go occasionally. As soon as we'd get home he would go out into the yard and start dropping poop mines everywhere. To this day we joke about it when anyone in the family has to go #2 after coming home from a trip. We call it pooping like Dingo. 

 I've got a vivid memory of coming back from a camping trip with my two young daughters (they must have been 5 and 7 at the time), who apparently did not go in the campground outhouse for the entire four days. We stopped at a restaurant with two stalls. One daughter clogged one toilet and the other clogged the other! Apparently they felt safe there and let it fly!

[ktgrok]

3 hours ago, Katy said:

 

I've always been the type to go 3 times a day, the urge is fast, I'm done quickly.  The only exception is when fasting or in the 6 weeks after giving birth.  I suspect that's a family trait. I could probably be diagnosed with irritable bowel,

Everything I've read about gut health says what you are describing is the normal workings of the bowl, and what we should be striving for. But so much of the population is chronically constipated we don't recognize normal anymore. 

2 hours ago, Bluegoat said:

 

Yeah, there are really quite a lot of jobs where it is just not possible to go whenever you might feel the urge.  Not just exploitative type ones.  

I think agricultural workers probably have time, they are the ones who get less pay if they do less, usually. Lack of facilities can be a problem though.  My first job when I was 12 was picking strawberries, I think we got 12 cents a box, and you had to hike quite a way to get to the outhouse in some of the fields.  Most people went in the woods.  One time I went and somehow walked out on fallen trees covered in moss, thinking it was solid, and kind of fell through with my pants down.  It took me a while to extricate myself and I have lichen in my underpants all day.

And then, without proper hand washing facilities, go back to touching people's food. 

[Katy]

32 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Everything I've read about gut health says what you are describing is the normal workings of the bowl, and what we should be striving for. But so much of the population is chronically constipated we don't recognize normal anymore. 

And then, without proper hand washing facilities, go back to touching people's food. 

 

It's normal when I avoid fructose, onions, anything fermented, and animal fat.  Basically everything the GAPS diet says is healthy. Otherwise I have a strong tendency toward diarrhea. I'm a volume eater and have always tended towards lots of vegetables.

[moonflower]

My kids are in school now and I would totally support a school day that is 1/2 hour longer to allow for a 45 minute lunch and 15 minute tea break in lieu of the no break, 30 minute lunch they have now.  I know hour lunches and a regular 15-20 minute break at mid-morning aren't necessarily normal anymore in the working world, but I think they're very civilized and improve daily happiness, honestly.  

[Pen]

Avogel.co.uk 

Is site for quotation below  

 

@Just Kate no idea if this is related at all or how legitimate the site is, but it came up on a search. Has some suggestions for what can be done   If it is relevant at all  

“Urgency is a distressing symptom of IBS. Our expert Ali explains why you may be experiencing bowel urgency as a result of IBS and discusses different tactics you can ... “ 

“

An introduction to IBS and urgency

Urgency is a sudden, desperate need to go to the toilet and is most commonly associated with diarrhoea dominant IBS. Incontinence may even be experienced in severe cases.

Feeling an uncomfortable urgency to use the toilet is often regarded as one of the most distressing aspects of irritable bowel syndrome (IBS). This situation may happen unexpectedly and if caught off guard, can be extremely stressful.  Recurrent distressing situations of this nature must be addressed as they can lead to more serious issues such as anxiety or panic attacks.

...

There could also be a more functional issue evident such as sphincters in the rectum not working as they should. Peristalsis, or movement of waste along the digestive tract, becomes voluntary at the point of the external rectal sphincter so we can go to the toilet at our convenience. If, for some reason, this sphincter is damaged through time or not working properly, urgency or incontinence may be a result.

...  “

 

[moonflower]

I don't think the idea for this kid, or for some other people in the thread, is necessarily that it is urgent.  Like, not in the next 30 seconds urgent, or in the next 5 minutes urgent.  Is having to go in the next half hour an urgency issue?  I dunno.

[Daria]

4 hours ago, Bluegoat said:

 

Yeah, there are really quite a lot of jobs where it is just not possible to go whenever you might feel the urge.  Not just exploitative type ones.  

I think agricultural workers probably have time, they are the ones who get less pay if they do less, usually. Lack of facilities can be a problem though.  My first job when I was 12 was picking strawberries, I think we got 12 cents a box, and you had to hike quite a way to get to the outhouse in some of the fields.  Most people went in the woods.  One time I went and somehow walked out on fallen trees covered in moss, thinking it was solid, and kind of fell through with my pants down.  It took me a while to extricate myself and I have lichen in my underpants all day.

 

Teaching is one of those professions, at least it is in many places.  I teach high school now, and knowing that I never have to make it more than a 90 minute period is so nice, but for all the years I taught elementary school I just wouldn't drink until I got home, because if I did need to pee, I knew I might be waiting hours.  

I'm not saying this an excuse, but I do think that people who experience something unpleasant are often the most likely to think it's reasonable to cause similar unpleasantness for others.  

As a teacher, I see both sides of the issue.  I teach at a school that has a 50 minute lunch period, and a small enough building with enough bathrooms that it really is possible for a kid to eat, use the bathroom and make it to class without hurrying.  And yet, I have kids asking to go within the first 30 seconds of class.  It's hard for me to believe that the need is now urgent when they didn't know in time to go a few minutes ago. I think it's more likely that they counted on the fact that I would let them go when they made the decision to socialize a little longer.  

So, I'll ask a kid "can you wait until the directions are done?"  and if they say yes, I see if they ask again.  Often they don't.  If they say no, they can't wait I let them go.  But it is disruptive, and costs precious instructional minutes.

[Bootsie]

In this particular situation, I find it hard to believe that the teacher just dreamed up one day to create a new policy.  There must have been a reason that the teacher was trying to address.  It may have been a few students leaving regularly and taking a long time in the bathroom.  It could have been a constant coming and going that was distracting to the learning of others.  It could have been some leaving the classroom to chat or do other things.  The teacher must have, at a minimum, perceived that there was some problem. Knowing what problem the teacher was having, causing him to implement the policy, would probably help in working toward creating a solution that reduces that problem but meeting the needs of a student who occasionally does need to go to the bathroom.

It may sound like a student leaving class twice in a week is not that much.  But, if this is the "norm" the teacher is experiencing, with a class of only 20 students, that would average 8 students per class meeting going to the bathroom during class.  If the class is about an hour long, that would be 16 times within an hour (more than once every four minutes) that the door opens and closes.  I have taught in classrooms that, it doesn't matter how hard a student tries, the door closes slowly and loudly (I have noticed this to be the case in doors where the central office can automatically centrally lock doors in case of a lockdown).  I have taught in classrooms where the door is located near a central teaching area so it is impossible for students to leave without walking in front of the teacher.  In some classrooms, students cannot quietly leave without disrupting other students because of the type of desk arrangements.  It is also interesting how there can be group contagion.  One student gets up and goes to the bathroom, another student thinks maybe he needs to go, then another goes.    

[Daria]

8 hours ago, StellaM said:

It's interesting to me that when I supervise exams, we HAVE to let kids go to the loo if they need to. I suppose because it's considered that physical discomfort will impact on their exam performance. But apparently it doesn't impact on learning ?

 

What kind of exams are you proctoring?

I guess I see exams as totally different for a variety of reasons.  One is that you may not know the kids, so you can't judge whether they're like my kid who NEVER asks (and I'd let that kid go immediately) or my kid who asks every single day 30 seconds after arrival, or my kid who has a history of never coming back.

The second reason is that there is no instruction during an exam.  So, if a student loses 5 minutes to go to the bathroom, it's just them.  On the other hand, if a student misses the 5 minutes when I explain a task, then either the entire class loses 5 minutes of instruction while I reexplain it when they return, or the kid can't do the activity and loses a much bigger chunk of time.    Kids are also really motivated to do well on an exam, or to finish.  They're much less likely to ask, so it's usually one or two disruptions. 

Finally, if this is a national exam like the SAT or a PARCC or something, then there is a high level of supervision, with kids walked to the bathroom and then someone waiting for someone.  So, the concerns about hallway behavior and not coming back to class don't apply.  

As I posted, I do let kids go, although sometimes I'll ask them to listen to this set of directions first, but that doesn't mean that it isn't disruptive, and I can't understand why teachers are tempted to make other choices.

[Bluegoat]

14 hours ago, Daria said:

 

Teaching is one of those professions, at least it is in many places.  I teach high school now, and knowing that I never have to make it more than a 90 minute period is so nice, but for all the years I taught elementary school I just wouldn't drink until I got home, because if I did need to pee, I knew I might be waiting hours.  

I'm not saying this an excuse, but I do think that people who experience something unpleasant are often the most likely to think it's reasonable to cause similar unpleasantness for others.  

As a teacher, I see both sides of the issue.  I teach at a school that has a 50 minute lunch period, and a small enough building with enough bathrooms that it really is possible for a kid to eat, use the bathroom and make it to class without hurrying.  And yet, I have kids asking to go within the first 30 seconds of class.  It's hard for me to believe that the need is now urgent when they didn't know in time to go a few minutes ago. I think it's more likely that they counted on the fact that I would let them go when they made the decision to socialize a little longer.  

So, I'll ask a kid "can you wait until the directions are done?"  and if they say yes, I see if they ask again.  Often they don't.  If they say no, they can't wait I let them go.  But it is disruptive, and costs precious instructional minutes.

 

I think that's true, although I think it's a good idea to be careful about this.  Maybe the reason that they think it's reasonable because they know it's not actually that big a deal, or they have some reason to think there were pros as well as cons to whatever it is.  

If I think of the jobs I've had, there were really only a few where I could always go to the toilet whenever I wanted to.  Working in a museum kid library, restocking medical exam rooms, I think that's it.  THe military, working on a pizza line, working at a bakery, none of these were things where I could just go when I wanted to.  Sure, if it was a dire emergency, but otherwise, you don't just leave in the middle of the lunch rush.  Things like being a guard, or selling Christmas trees, or as a hotdog vendor - it wouldn't have just been inconvenient, it was a big deal to leave in order to pee.  (In fact as far as being a guard in the army, I'd probably have peed myself before I was willing to leave my spot.  )

But - I don't think any of those are unreasonable, they are just conditions of the environment.  And they weren't really unpleasant in a serious way.