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Your opinion on teacher’s policy re: bathroom


Just Kate
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Just now, mom2scouts said:

You don't have to avoid a factory job. I've heard from several people that some factory workers wear adult diapers so they don't have to leave the line and get in trouble!😕

Well, when the issue is bowel-related, that would be awfully hard for me or my coworkers to tolerate!

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10 minutes ago, Farrar said:

To be clear, the issue is not kids cutting or wandering the halls or whatever. The issue is mostly that kids have to ask permission and teachers have to fill out passes. And if five kids do this in the course of a class (not unusual if your policy is lax) then that's time out of teaching you have to take. And it interrupts the flow of you helping others or actually instructing. And as kids get up in small classrooms, they sometimes have to literally move desks around and they make noise and disrupt things going back and forth. And then you have to go catch them up when they return, five or twenty minutes later. It's not only that they're cutting, it's that the actual getting up is disruptive because 14 yos are pretty cruddy at doing this quietly and the system at the vast majority of schools makes it into an ordeal anyway. They can't just quietly stand and leave and then slip back in even if they wanted to.

Yes, it sucks. No, there's no some magic answer that doesn't involve fixing some much deeper problems with how schools run.

And it sounds like discipline is a real problem at this school right now, so there are probably plenty of kids "needing" to use the bathroom during class, which forced the teacher to be overly strict.

As a teacher, by the end of the first month of school I knew who was using the bathroom legitimately and who was goofing off. I would have that phone conversation with the teacher. Try to be compassionate and show him that you are seeing things from his side (poorly behaved students, needing to set boundaries, etc), make certain that your student isn't one of the otherwise disruptive ones, and then tell him that your ds will continue to use the bathroom during class, but only when 100% necessary, and ask him for the easiest way for that to work. Maybe your ds can sit nearest the door.

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3 minutes ago, EmseB said:

And yet, given the issues I had growing up, as an adult I never had the same issues. I was in important meetings before I had kids. I worked fast food. I drive in traffic and get stuck. I was in the military. Nothing was ever so bad as being down the hall from a bathroom and being told by a teacher that I couldn't use it as a teen girl amongst other teens. 

How does being able to hold it for 20 minutes equate to not being more than 5 minutes from a bathroom? This math in your post doesn't seem to add up. 15 minutes seems like a pretty normal amount of time to get to a bathroom if one has to go, to be honest. In an office or classroom situation or at home there's one usually down the hall. Other situations may vary and I'm not planning my life out around bathrooms by any means (well, that's not true because I have kids, but not for myself anyway). There are people I know who can hold it all day because they don't want to use work bathrooms. I am not one of those people, but I'm also not scoping for bathrooms because I'm going to lose my stuff in 5 minutes if I don't have one handy. All things being equal, I'd rather not wait more than 20 minutes.

Hmm, I probably learned my bathroom holding ability at home, because we had 8 people living there and 1 bathroom.

Also we were out running around the neighborhoods all day in the summer time.  Sometimes I look back and wonder how we did it with very limited bathroom opportunities.  I assume we knew all the places and times where a public bathroom was available, e.g. during free lunch handouts at the public schools ....

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32 minutes ago, Pen said:

How many times per day does your son have bowel movements typically? 

If only once, might it be possible to try to adjust his schedule somehow?  My guess is that most students usually have bowel movement before or after school, and only rarely in the middle of day. 

If multiple times could he have something going on like irritable bowel or food sensitivities?

 

He goes multiple times per day, so it could be one of the issues you mentioned (he has had stomach issues in the past and also diagnosed anxiety as a younger child, which can cause stomach issues). I’ve thought about going to the doctor and requesting a note, but 1. If ds is the only student allowed to go, that seems unfair to the others and I know ds will have to explain himself to his classmates, and 2. I just hate to pay for yet another trip to the doctor. 

30 minutes ago, Pen said:

Could he get an after lunch study hall?

 

No study hall at this school. 

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27 minutes ago, SKL said:

When I worked in a factory, they said we were allowed to stop and use the toilet if we needed to, but it affected both the quality and quantity of the work we were evaluated on.  So obviously if you need to go, you need to go, but there is an incentive to try to wait if you can.

In business meetings, I would never get up and excuse myself if I was an important player in the room.  (Again, allowing for emergencies, which never happened to me.)  It would be so disruptive to make everyone wait while I went and attended to whatever.  Or to make them catch me up when I got back.

Even just driving or being on a plane - you have to wait most of the time.  If you truly cannot wait, then you have to plan around that, e.g., change your eating schedule or your travel schedule or wear some protection.  Obviously if you have that problem, you should be able to get an exception at school and hopefully at work.

Of course, he has no control over his eating schedule in a public school. 

24 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I agree that holding it for hours is not good for you. However, being unable to hold it without incident for 15-20 minutes could really effect your quality of life. Maybe I’m completely wrong, but it seem completely abnormal for a 14-year-old to be unable to do this. How could someone function normally if they can never be more than 5 minutes from a bathroom?

But she said there is no time to go between classes, so it would be holding it the rest of the school day (several hours) if he doesn't go during class time, either this class or another class. 

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16 minutes ago, Just Kate said:

 

He goes multiple times per day, so it could be one of the issues you mentioned (he has had stomach issues in the past and also diagnosed anxiety as a younger child, which can cause stomach issues). I’ve thought about going to the doctor and requesting a note, but 1. If ds is the only student allowed to go, that seems unfair to the others and I know ds will have to explain himself to his classmates, and 2. I just hate to pay for yet another trip to the doctor. 

 

No study hall at this school. 

 

I think in this case you should not worry about the other kids .  Just set up what your own child needs. 

And if anxiety is a part of it, fear about not being allowed out could breed its own anxiety. 

 

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43 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I agree that holding it for hours is not good for you. However, being unable to hold it without incident for 15-20 minutes could really effect your quality of life. Maybe I’m completely wrong, but it seem completely abnormal for a 14-year-old to be unable to do this. How could someone function normally if they can never be more than 5 minutes from a bathroom?

The fact that someone experiences a sense of urgency in response to a specific trigger or time of day (could be 20-30 minutes after a big meal, or X hours after waking up, or whatever) doesn't mean that they experience that feeling at random times all day every day. 

My son often has to go fairly urgently half an hour to an hour after a big meal. He's always been like that, since he was little. I think he just has a sluggish GI tract and a big meal gets things going quickly. He's learned to work around that somewhat by timing when he eats his meals. But a high school student whose body happens to work like that does not have any choice in when he eats, there's a very small window to scarf down lunch. 

And there's nothing abnormal about a body that works like that. The idea that a child's perfectly normal bodily functions would be pathologized as a "medical problem," just because it doesn't fit the factory-like environment of schools in this country, is symptomatic of how utterly screwed up the educational system is here. 

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1 hour ago, StellaM said:

Diapers ? To work ? Oh man. Oh boy. 

Not only is that unhealthy (rashes, infections), undignified (smells, discomfort), it's an extra cost imposed on the worker (cost of diaper). 

Please tell me adults wearing diaper to work because they aren't allowed to go to the loo is an urban myth. Please!

We did a mine tour a while back and the trucks are programmed so that if someone is doing a toilet stop for more than 10 minutes or too frequently it reports back somehow.  Also they have face recognition and if driver eyes are off the road a speaker activates to “always look forward” or something like that.  It’s all supposedly safety related but definitely no privacy in work hours.

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56 minutes ago, Just Kate said:

 

He goes multiple times per day, so it could be one of the issues you mentioned (he has had stomach issues in the past and also diagnosed anxiety as a younger child, which can cause stomach issues). I’ve thought about going to the doctor and requesting a note, but 1. If ds is the only student allowed to go, that seems unfair to the others and I know ds will have to explain himself to his classmates, and 2. I just hate to pay for yet another trip to the doctor. 

 

No study hall at this school. 

 

I’m not sure what you want to happen here. When I read your OP, I assumed you wanted the teacher to allow your son to use the rest room, but now it seems that you’re worried about your ds potentially being the only child allowed to use the rest room. I wouldn’t be concerned about the other students; this is about your son and his needs, not about his classmates.

Personally, I think you should advocate for your son by speaking directly to the teacher, as well as to the principal if it becomes necessary. If your son needs to get to the rest room in a hurry during class, and he returns to class promptly afterward, I don’t think the teacher should be making such a big deal out of it. If your son has to go, he has to go. It wouldn’t be fair to burden him with anxiety every day, worrying that he might not be able to hold it until class is over. That would be awful for him.

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The idea that a child's perfectly normal bodily functions would be pathologized as a "medical problem," just because it doesn't fit the factory-like environment of schools in this country, is symptomatic of how utterly screwed up the educational system is here. 

 

It's also symptomatic of how badly we disrespect workers. It doesn't have to be this way.

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1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

I agree that holding it for hours is not good for you. However, being unable to hold it without incident for 15-20 minutes could really effect your quality of life. Maybe I’m completely wrong, but it seem completely abnormal for a 14-year-old to be unable to do this. How could someone function normally if they can never be more than 5 minutes from a bathroom?

Good for you if you don't have this, but some do -- either their body is on a schedule, or certain foods/drinks trigger, or they might actually have a medical situation.

OP, I come firmly down in having your son's back. I told my kids early & often that they can ALWAYS get up and hit the restroom even if the adult in charge (including me) has said they can't. (I have one kid who parks herself in there with a book. She's not necessarily using the toilet-- she just knows it is a safe place to hide out from siblings and a nagging mom. She wants to put a comfy chair in there . . . ) I have too many bad didn't-make-it-to-the-bathroom experiences from childhood (due to teachers like this).

If you have to go, you have to go. I'd sue the teacher/school if I had to. But, I'd talk to the teacher & principal, get a doctor's note, and several other things before going that far. I feel very strongly about this topic. [I worked in a factory for several years in management. You go to the bathroom when you need to. Others would cover for you for those few minutes.]

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20 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I’m not sure what you want to happen here. When I read your OP, I assumed you wanted the teacher to allow your son to use the rest room, but now it seems that you’re worried about your ds potentially being the only child allowed to use the rest room. I wouldn’t be concerned about the other students; this is about your son and his needs, not about his classmates.

Personally, I think you should advocate for your son by speaking directly to the teacher, as well as to the principal if it becomes necessary. If your son needs to get to the rest room in a hurry during class, and he returns to class promptly afterward, I don’t think the teacher should be making such a big deal out of it. If your son has to go, he has to go. It wouldn’t be fair to burden him with anxiety every day, worrying that he might not be able to hold it until class is over. That would be awful for him.

 

You are right...I went back and read my original post and then this last one, and I do seem like I’m not certain about what I actually want. This is the 7th year that my kids have attended this school and up until this year, I have found that the teachers have been nothing but reasonable, kind, and accommodating. So I think I’m still processing and trying to determine exactly what I want. 

This is a very small school - about 250 kids in K-12. Ds has been with the same kids since 3rd grade and I know many of them well. If the teacher has a no bathroom policy, the kids would think it was weird if ds were still allowed to go. But I guess I just need to advocate for ds and not worry about the rest. 

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From reading this thread, it seems like your ds's health issues may warrant you discussing this with the teacher.

At the same time, I would suggest helping your child to realize that there are times when you need to learn to go a longer time before using the bathroom. You can't just get up during the SAT and go whenever you want to go even if nature calls. You sometimes have to hold it if you are driving a car or stuck in traffic. If you are on a plane with serious turbulence, you may not just get up and go to the restroom. So I agree that while we don't want to have our children do something physically harmful, at age 14 one can learn to hold it for a bit when it is not optional to go. Hopefully, that doesn't happen often. 

When he goes to college, he will be able to go to the bathroom whenever he likes. However, make sure he realizes that professors won't "stop the class" for him.

 

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2 hours ago, MissLemon said:

All of those examples involve adults with full authority over their day.  The violinist has the autonomy to say "I'll make time before the concert to use the bathroom".  Teens in school don't always have the luxury of autonomy.  They don't always get to say "I'll stop in the bathroom before chemistry".  You only get to use the bathroom at lunch if the lunchroom supervisor allows you to.  You don't always get to use the bathroom during class change if your classes are far apart or the bathroom is already full.  Or you run into a sour-faced aide/monitor who decides that "enough" people have used the bathroom during class change, and s/he isn't going to let anyone else in because s/he feels disrespected and this is a way to exert some control   

Teens in school don't have autonomy during their day.  Not using the bathroom before class isn't always due to lack of planning. 

Back in the stone age, (aka when I was in school), several of my teachers told the class "I know you don't have long to change classes.  If you are a few minutes late coming to class because you had to use the bathroom, it's fine. Just come in quietly, take your seat, and try not to make it a regular occurrence."  And wonder of wonders, it's a system that worked.  No one abused it because we liked being treated like regular human beings instead of wee naughty children that needed to ask.       

If the issue is that students do not have enough time to stop in the bathroom before class or if monitors are not letting students into the bathroom, then those issues need to be addressed (rather than putting it on the teacher as a classroom management issue).  I think there is a difference in "you should go to the bathroom during breaks, sometimes you will be a few minutes late to class and need to come in quietly, and occasionally you might have an emergency" (which if that is what was happening, I can't imagine the teacher implementing this new policy) and "any student should be able to wonder in and out of the classroom as often as they want and whenever they want to go to the bathroom"   

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3 minutes ago, tampamommy said:

From reading this thread, it seems like your ds's health issues may warrant you discussing this with the teacher.

At the same time, I would suggest helping your child to realize that there are times when you need to learn to go a longer time before using the bathroom. You can't just get up during the SAT and go whenever you want to go even if nature calls. You sometimes have to hold it if you are driving a car or stuck in traffic. If you are on a plane with serious turbulence, you may not just get up and go to the restroom. So I agree that while we don't want to have our children do something physically harmful, at age 14 one can learn to hold it for a bit when it is not optional to go. Hopefully, that doesn't happen often. 

When he goes to college, he will be able to go to the bathroom whenever he likes. However, make sure he realizes that professors won't "stop the class" for him.

 

In those situations a person who knows they have to "go" 1 hour after eating could just change their eating schedule for those occasions. I have to go about 30 minutes after my morning coffee, so if I am going to be stuck in the car for an hour I have my coffee earlier. He can't eat earlier, he has to eat on the school timetable. And as stated several times, there is not time to go during breaks between classes, so he'd have to hold it for hours. Not healthy. 

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11 minutes ago, Just Kate said:

 

You are right...I went back and read my original post and then this last one, and I do seem like I’m not certain about what I actually want. This is the 7th year that my kids have attended this school and up until this year, I have found that the teachers have been nothing but reasonable, kind, and accommodating. So I think I’m still processing and trying to determine exactly what I want. 

This is a very small school - about 250 kids in K-12. Ds has been with the same kids since 3rd grade and I know many of them well. If the teacher has a no bathroom policy, the kids would think it was weird if ds were still allowed to go. But I guess I just need to advocate for ds and not worry about the rest. 

 

I think a blanket “no bathroom” policy is ridiculous and unreasonable. I can’t imagine that there are so many kids asking to use the rest room every day in that one specific class. It doesn’t sound like this is the usual school policy, but that it’s something this teacher decided on his own. I can’t help but wonder if the principal knows about it.

If you talk to the teacher directly and he won’t change his policy, I don’t think you should hesitate to meet with the principal about it. If you suspect the teacher might be difficult about it, perhaps you get a bit of information in advance of your conversation by telephoning the principal’s office in and asking about the school’s official policy on student rest room use during class time and whether teachers are permitted to have a strict policy of prohibiting students from using the rest room during class.

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3 hours ago, Farrar said:

I really sympathize with the thinking that this is overly controlling and wrong on a basic level.

But I've also been a classroom teacher and instituted this policy. For 90%+ kids, I do think that's the right approach. Kids need to develop a different routine. If your class is chill about letting kids go, you can end up with someone asking to go every two minutes. It's not about having a more engaging class or better class management skills. Kids will just develop the routine of settling in and then mid-class (or, heck, mid fun project) raising their hands and headed out. The vast majority of teens can control it for the time that a class takes. That's just medically true.

What do you do about the kids who really can't? I mean, once you break the "everyone is excusing themselves every day every minute" thing, then usually you can relax it a little and sort it out. Is it ideal? No. But neither is having your class interrupted constantly. When I was teaching, I did have a student with a medical need. I absolutely never applied the policy to that student. And if any student or parent had come to talk to me about a medical need, I'd have absolutely have modified sooner.

In an ideal world, I'd give kids more time between classes and a longer lunch though. Thirty minutes is really short.

Thank you.  Part of the problem I had in my classroom is that one of my classes started passing the hall pass from one student to another.  Only one student was allowed out at a time, so anyone who legitimately needed to go was not able to because someone else was goofing off.  I know most of these kids did not need to use the bathroom at that time.  They would come into the room snickering and then give the pass to one of their friends.  It was ridiculous and I didn't know how else to stop it.

3 hours ago, OKBud said:

When I worked in a factory, I wasn't allowed to use the restroom when I wanted. They'd relent in the height of summer (because they needed us to drink tonnes of water to avoid over-heating because it was insanely hot in there) but otherwise we had to go during breaks.

For that matter (!) when I was a teacher, I couldn't just leave the class to make water. I, too, had to wait for breaks. Ditto doing hair, between clients.

Now that I am thinking about it, the only job I ever had where I could just walk away to the restroom was when I worked overnight in a hotel and that's because almost no one was there. My husband can currently schedule his own time that way, but that's not always the case. I bet personal experience this way strongly influences people's responses. 

As a classroom teacher, I had very few opportunities to use the restroom.  I could have gotten fired if I had left my class unattended.

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I’m on the side of teachers and administrators with this one… We task them with an unbelievable amount of things in education of our children and hold them accountable for everrrrrrrrry conceivable thing imaginable in creating the “perfect environment” for our kids. And it’s unrealistic. 

I don’t think this policy is harsh insofar as classroom management and dynamics.  Spend a few days volunteering and you might see it differently.  Maybe not.

 As a former homeschool mom and wife to a man who was homeschooled third through 12th grade (as were his 4 siblings) this hits one of my critiques of homeschooling  - students and parents get accustomed to creating and existing in the perfect tailor-made environment of homeschool that has to address the needs of 2-5 students and project that onto the rest of life.  Ive seen more than a few homeschool kids and moms really struggle to embrace the realities of group management when it’s not a cooperative environment.

 

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I worked in an office where I could use the restroom whenever needed, but I still got so busy that I often went hours without using the restroom. I ended up getting recurrent bladder then kidney infections. Once, I almost became septic. Not to mention being a teen girl and needing to change a tampon or menstrual cup during class. I can't imagine having to explain that to a teacher. So, I am firmly in the camp that thinks this policy is bullsh*t, and I wouldn't require my kid to follow it.

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2 hours ago, Corraleno said:

The fact that someone experiences a sense of urgency in response to a specific trigger or time of day (could be 20-30 minutes after a big meal, or X hours after waking up, or whatever) doesn't mean that they experience that feeling at random times all day every day. 

My son often has to go fairly urgently half an hour to an hour after a big meal. He's always been like that, since he was little. I think he just has a sluggish GI tract and a big meal gets things going quickly. He's learned to work around that somewhat by timing when he eats his meals. But a high school student whose body happens to work like that does not have any choice in when he eats, there's a very small window to scarf down lunch. 

And there's nothing abnormal about a body that works like that. The idea that a child's perfectly normal bodily functions would be pathologized as a "medical problem," just because it doesn't fit the factory-like environment of schools in this country, is symptomatic of how utterly screwed up the educational system is here. 

 

Missing 1/3 of the instruction in a high school English class because you NEED to use the bathroom during that precise class every day, and there is nothing you can do to change it, is definitely an outlier situation. The teacher’s policy can stand AND an acception can be made so this student isn’t suffering. 

It may be important in the future for this kid to have a non-core class after lunch. I’m all for accommodations when a student is truly unable to fully participate in a class for any reason. 

I’m still sympathetic to the teacher who is responsible for supervising these kids and maintaining classroom order when parents are screaming “I’ll sue you!” when a policy isn’t one they’d choose. 

Luckily for most students and their teachers, bowels that behave like ticking time bombs are NOT the norm.  This just isn’t a situation that comes up in every class every year.

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1 hour ago, LarlaB said:

I’m on the side of teachers and administrators with this one… We task them with an unbelievable amount of things in education of our children and hold them accountable for everrrrrrrrry conceivable thing imaginable in creating the “perfect environment” for our kids. And it’s unrealistic. 

I don’t think this policy is harsh insofar as classroom management and dynamics.  Spend a few days volunteering and you might see it differently.  Maybe not.

 As a former homeschool mom and wife to a man who was homeschooled third through 12th grade (as were his 4 siblings) this hits one of my critiques of homeschooling  - students and parents get accustomed to creating and existing in the perfect tailor-made environment of homeschool that has to address the needs of 2-5 students and project that onto the rest of life.  Ive seen more than a few homeschool kids and moms really struggle to embrace the realities of group management when it’s not a cooperative environment.

 

Being able to use the bathroom so you don't poop your pants isn't demanding a perfect, tailor made environment. It's expecting basic human rights and dignity. 

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I get that the healthiest thing would be to go the moment you need to go... And I get that if you're not given enough time in the course of an overall day, that's a giant problem. No one should wait hours and hours. That's bad. But I also think that it is medically unusual at the least and of medical concern at most for a teen or adult not to be able to routinely "hold it" for half an hour. And I'm dubious that there are really medical consequences for routinely waiting that length of time. Multiple hours, absolutely. But less than a class period? Really?

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4 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I get that the healthiest thing would be to go the moment you need to go... And I get that if you're not given enough time in the course of an overall day, that's a giant problem. No one should wait hours and hours. That's bad. But I also think that it is medically unusual at the least and of medical concern at most for a teen or adult not to be able to routinely "hold it" for half an hour. And I'm dubious that there are really medical consequences for routinely waiting that length of time. Multiple hours, absolutely. But less than a class period? Really?

I have been trying to explain this without being too detailed.

Some people in my house spend TIME taking care of business. Some of us are done in less than five minutes. Some of us can wait all day to go if we need to. Others of us cannot fathom doing that. When some people in my house need to go, I can often tell because of the smell and sounds. That's problematic in a classroom full of teens even if things aren't urgent. At any rate, every body's different, right? Some of us have a shorter fuse than others. I think a medical problem is indicated when the need is truly immediate, like can't wait even 5 minutes or 10. I've heard of people with IBS who can't wait 20 seconds. Needing a toilet within 30 minutes with no other indications of a problem sounds like...not a medical issue to me. But if you hold it in until the urge goes away, you're just setting yourself up for constipation or impaction. This is especially true in kids who are the ones in classrooms dealing wth scheduled bathroom breaks.

I'm not saying that a student should drop everything and book it to the bathroom as soon as they feel the urge. By all means, hold it if you can. Wait until after class. Wait until the lecture is over. But if 20 minutes ticks by and you still have 15 minutes left of class and your stomach hurts like the dickens, then no one should be prevented from going because the teacher has a blanket ban or because they "shouldn't" have to go at that point of the day.

 

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Is the period after lunch the only time he can have English or could he have a different period for English — and some other class after lunch, even if a study hall isn’t an option.  Ideally a class which is less important to miss and where the teacher doesn’t mind him needing to take breaks to go to the toilets? 

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OP here...a couple of clarifying points. 

Ds doesn’t have to go to the bathroom in English class every day. I asked him how often and he said maybe twice a week. He tries to go at lunchtime, but often he just doesn’t need to yet. 

Also, this isn’t a public school. It is a small teeny tiny private school. 9th grade English is after lunch for all 9th graders. Ds doesn’t get to choose when to take English class. 

Ds is a pretty good kid. Teachers tend to like him and have said they enjoy having him in class. He is mostly a straight A student and he works hard in school. He isn’t a problem student. 

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Yeah, sorry, I don't buy that being able to go to the bathroom when one needs to is some special snowflake homeschool thing.

Like making it the exception so that your mom has to call your school so that you, at 14yo, can be given special permission to use the bathroom when you need to, which just happens to coincide with eating lunch when the school tells you to, your mom having to explain your BM habits to your teacher so you can go to the toilet ...that's not weird or creepy controlling at all. That's not special snowflake in and of itself??

Maybe more than just the OP's son have this issue that's why the teacher thinks too many kids need to go to the bathroom during his class so he had to ban it. Maybe the issue is the schedule or his overall class discipline and not, say, otherwise good kids going to the bathroom.

 

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I'm thinking back to my own high school days. By and large, the teachers with the biggest problems weren't the extremely lenient ones - they were the excessively hardass ones, the ones who made a big stinking deal about bathroom passes (among other things). They were sometimes able to keep kids in the room - although I remember several notable instances where kids simply walked out in the middle of their tirades, and they all had a high amount of kids who decided not to even show up on any given day - but they spent so much time and energy on that garbage that not much teaching got done, and the students didn't respect them.

If the school policy forces teachers to be more controlling, I think this often backfires. I'll tell you, my sole criteria for evaluating high schools for my kids was "do they run this place like a freaking prison?" and I rejected several schools that looked good on paper solely because I didn't think they were likely to treat the kids well.

I'm not saying that being a pushover is the solution - the super easy teachers didn't get much teaching done either, though they at least managed to have better atmospheres inside the classroom simply due to having very low standards - but the best teachers I had knew better than to make mountains out of molehills. They dealt with hall pass abuse and other relatively minor issues on a case-by-case basis rather than making blanket rules and freaking out about them all. the. time, and the kids rarely abused their trust (and mostly learned things).

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1 hour ago, Just Kate said:

OP here...a couple of clarifying points. 

Ds doesn’t have to go to the bathroom in English class every day. I asked him how often and he said maybe twice a week. He tries to go at lunchtime, but often he just doesn’t need to yet. 

Also, this isn’t a public school. It is a small teeny tiny private school. 9th grade English is after lunch for all 9th graders. Ds doesn’t get to choose when to take English class. 

Ds is a pretty good kid. Teachers tend to like him and have said they enjoy having him in class. He is mostly a straight A student and he works hard in school. He isn’t a problem student. 

 

Twice a week??? The teacher can suck it up and deal with it. Seriously. Your son isn’t being a nuisance or a special snowflake. He’s being NORMAL.

Your son sounds like a great kid. The teacher sounds like a control freak.

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We had this exact situation last year with ds. His teacher for the class right after lunch wouldn't let him go to the bathroom and would get super annoyed when asked. He came home complaining and we told him to figure it out. At 15, he's approaching adulthood. IMO, there's no reason he can't make it through that class without needing a bathroom break. If it was so bad that he couldn't make it, well, he can always walk out and deal with whatever the consequence is. He managed to make the time to go to the bathroom right before the end of lunch and that solved it. 

At this point in his development, my larger concern is that he becomes an adult that can navigate the world without expecting someone to come along and clear the path for him. Once he knew that mom and dad weren't going to fix it, he figured out what he needed to do to fix it himself.

On a separate but related note, in my college classes, some of the lower level classes (i.e. all freshman) have an incredible amount of traffic. Just absolutely constant in and out movement. It's absolutely disruptive to the class. I can imagine it's only worse at the high school level.

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1 hour ago, Just Kate said:

OP here...a couple of clarifying points. 

Ds doesn’t have to go to the bathroom in English class every day. I asked him how often and he said maybe twice a week. He tries to go at lunchtime, but often he just doesn’t need to yet. 

Also, this isn’t a public school. It is a small teeny tiny private school. 9th grade English is after lunch for all 9th graders. Ds doesn’t get to choose when to take English class. 

Ds is a pretty good kid. Teachers tend to like him and have said they enjoy having him in class. He is mostly a straight A student and he works hard in school. He isn’t a problem student. 

 

I just want to say that this sounds very similar to my eldest's high school and I completely sympathize with the unique struggle that a teeny tiny high school presents. Her graduating class was 11 kids- to this day, the largest in the school's history!

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This is one of the reasons dd1 hated school and one of the bonuses to homeschool for me. 

It's not raising special snowflakes to allow them to use the restroom when needed. I did so at college and at any job I worked at without issue.

The amount of control schools take over kids just continues to grow and I thought it was bad enough when I was in school.

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11 hours ago, Bootsie said:

I can see the teacher having this policy (as long as there some consideration if there is a medical issue or a rare request).  When I was in school it was extremely rare for someone to go to the bathroom during class.  That is what lunch time and changing class period times were for.  The classroom is not the only time that people are asked to wait to certain times to use the bathroom.  You don't jump up when the plane it taking off to go to the bathroom; you go before you board the plane.  You don't get up in the middle of a theater performance and disrupt those around you to go to the bathroom unless it is an emergency (and some theaters will not let you return to your seat until an intermission).  I have been on jury duty where the judge will not allow people to go to the bathroom.  The symphony violinist doesn't get up in the middle of the performance to go to the bathroom.  The basketball game doesn't stop for the referee to go to the bathroom.  In many situations the teacher is not in a situation to jump up and run to the bathroom whenever he wants.

I say this as a parent of a child with a history of serious, documented GI issues.  When a teacher refused to let her go to the bathroom (despite documentation from the doctor--and the fact that the teacher knew the child had recently been in a hospital half-way across the country undergoing testing for this GI issue), I had a fit.  I asked the teacher if the child had been abusing this privilege and was told no, this was the first time (six weeks into the school year) that the child had asked to go to the bathroom but that she could tell by looking at a child's eyes when I child really needed to go to the bathroom.   

Except for the jury duty, all of those situations are voluntary. School attendance is compulsory and the schedule is completely out of the control of the student. As for jury duty, in imagine the judge gave the jurists more than 4 minutes  during ther breaks. FWIW, I have quietly left business meetings to go to the bathroom on occasion. It really isn’t an issue in most circumstances. 

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10 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

So how do you propose that teachers with 30 kids in a classroom tell the difference?  If 90% of kids can hold it, and kids who really can't hold it till the end of class are not common, how do you propose that the teachers determine the difference if a doc note isn't the answer?

We could start by believing th students when they say they need to go to the bathroom. 

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It's funny the topics that generate a lot of responses here!

I can totally see a teacher having to put down a blanket "casual" rule regarding bathroom breaks if it has gotten out of hand.  I remember sneaking off with a friend to the "bathroom" almost daily, just to get out of class!  I assume the teacher has had this experience and that it has been a problem.  Most students can hold it till lunch, and hold it again until after school.  And not just hold it, but not even have that desire, really, for four hours at a time.  That said, lunch breaks are a lot shorter these days at a lot of schools.  We used to have a full hour!   So that's something.  In a perfect world, a student could quietly raise their hand during class and the teacher would nod back and the student would know he could leave to use the bathroom.  But if that is being taken advantage of or becomes a regular habit, then something more probably needs to happen.  Either the teacher needs to set (casual) rules in place so students learn they can't misuse it (which believe me, DOES happen!), or the student can talk privately with the teacher (parents can step in if needed).  A teacher should certainly understand and give approval going forward.  NOT allowing a student to use the bathroom who really needs to seems terrible.  It could also be a girl on her cycle who has an urgent need to attend to as well.  

I think what I'd do as a teacher is trust the student if it's just now and then.  If it seems to be a habit or I suspected misuse, I'd want more information to make sure everything is okay or that they're not up to something else.

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8 hours ago, tampamommy said:

From reading this thread, it seems like your ds's health issues may warrant you discussing this with the teacher.

At the same time, I would suggest helping your child to realize that there are times when you need to learn to go a longer time before using the bathroom. You can't just get up during the SAT and go whenever you want to go even if nature calls. You sometimes have to hold it if you are driving a car or stuck in traffic. If you are on a plane with serious turbulence, you may not just get up and go to the restroom. So I agree that while we don't want to have our children do something physically harmful, at age 14 one can learn to hold it for a bit when it is not optional to go. Hopefully, that doesn't happen often. 

When he goes to college, he will be able to go to the bathroom whenever he likes. However, make sure he realizes that professors won't "stop the class" for him.

 

1

The bolded:  my dh is a college professor and he had an issue with a female student who always "needed" to use the bathroom during an exam and "needed" to bring her purse with her. It was pretty clear that she was cheating -- not just because of the bathroom thing, but because her class work and her exam work didn't jive.

 

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I have never understood a teacher trying to keep students from using the bathroom and thankfully I've never encountered it. My dc were homeschooled 1st-5th, so they attended ps for K and middle school on up. The high school, that youngest still attends, has a block schedule so no teacher has a no restroom policy because classes are 90 minutes each. They have six minutes between classes but they have never used that time to use the bathroom. The school is several floors and super crowded so it usually takes up the passing time just getting to the next class. Their middle schools, in two different states without a block schedule, never had this policy either though. The high school currently has a big problem with students vaping in the bathrooms but they still don't try to institute a no bathroom policy for classes. They take measures to try and curb it by having more hall monitoring and adding detectors that are supposed to go off if students are vaping. 

Yes, teachers have to write passes for anyone that has to go but that hasn't ever interfered with my dc's education. So, maybe teachers find it distracting and annoying but students seem to be still learning. Most of my family are all teachers and why they sometimes can't go as soon as they need to they also have not really ever had a problem having the teacher next door keep an eye on their class so they can go if they need. It's just never been some big deal. I also volunteered a lot in my dc's classes when they were in K and it was the same way and a non issue. 

I don't think being told you can't use the bathroom in high school prepares you for any part of life as an adult. I actually have found very little done in high school mimics adult life. OP, I would push for my dc to be allowed to use the bathroom when they needed to. 

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OP, could your son not deposit his books from the before-lunch class and get his English books at the same time before lunch? If he doesn't need to use the locker after lunch, that may free up extra time for him.

All 3 of my kids have gone through public high school. All 3 of them chose not to use the school restrooms because they are gross. It hasn't seemed to harm any of them, though they frequently needed to use the toilet when they got home.

I sub K-12. In the middle and high schools, the students are not allowed to leave the classroom for any reason, barring an emergency, during the first and last 10 minutes of class. Several teachers have the no bathroom breaks during class rule. The kids figure it out. If it's truly an emergency, generally a teacher can tell and will allow the student to leave. Some students come in, drop off their backpack or books, and ask to use the restroom. I remind them to be quick and let them go. I always request they leave their device in their backpack so they aren't tempted to take longer than they should. 

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7 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

I'm thinking back to my own high school days. By and large, the teachers with the biggest problems weren't the extremely lenient ones - they were the excessively hardass ones, the ones who made a big stinking deal about bathroom passes (among other things). They were sometimes able to keep kids in the room - although I remember several notable instances where kids simply walked out in the middle of their tirades, and they all had a high amount of kids who decided not to even show up on any given day - but they spent so much time and energy on that garbage that not much teaching got done, and the students didn't respect them.

If the school policy forces teachers to be more controlling, I think this often backfires. I'll tell you, my sole criteria for evaluating high schools for my kids was "do they run this place like a freaking prison?" and I rejected several schools that looked good on paper solely because I didn't think they were likely to treat the kids well.

I'm not saying that being a pushover is the solution - the super easy teachers didn't get much teaching done either, though they at least managed to have better atmospheres inside the classroom simply due to having very low standards - but the best teachers I had knew better than to make mountains out of molehills. They dealt with hall pass abuse and other relatively minor issues on a case-by-case basis rather than making blanket rules and freaking out about them all. the. time, and the kids rarely abused their trust (and mostly learned things).

 

I've been reading this thread with partial amusement this morning.  I don't really have a suggestion for the OP.  Some teachers just aren't terribly good with managing classes.  Others are set in their ways that "this is what must happen."  Still others think the school policy must be followed, etc.

I've been subbing (with occasional full time work) at my high school since 1999 having everything from classes with the low level (often "bad") students to the college prep (usually "trustworthy" students).  The "bathroom policy" at our school is that the student must ask the teacher for permission to leave the room, sign out on a sign out sheet, take a pass (that's with the sheet), go, return, and sign in.  Long ago I learned that this was annoying to me for two reasons.  I hated that I had to give permission as if they were unable to figure out on their own that they needed to go and I hated the disruption of my time (sometimes - it depended upon what I was doing).

My solution?  I modified the rules for "my" classrooms.  The first time I see a class, esp of 9th graders, I flat out tell the kids they do NOT ever have to ask.  The answer is "yes."  I add my thoughts that by the time they are in high school they ought to know if they need to or not and know the school's policy about signing out/in.  Go for it.  Anytime (except during tests if they aren't finished).  Even if they just want a "break" for a few minutes.  They're human, I respect that.  My final thoughts to them are that if I ever find out they are abusing the privilege I will do my job and they will be in serious trouble, but that rarely happens.  I like to keep that rare (or non-existent).  (All of this is verbalized.)

The results?  Kids use the bathroom throughout my class as needed.  No problems.  No disruption.  The vast, vast majority won't go while I'm speaking/lecturing, but will wait until there is a break or some independent work time.  The few who go when I'm speaking catch up quietly with their peers later or ask me privately.  About once or twice a year someone will abuse the privilege and I'll speak to them privately about it.  Most have apologized.  It's never happened with the same student twice.  I've also overheard students speaking about it and they're thrilled that someone finally treats them like adults. 😉

BUT, I honestly don't know that my policy will work for everyone.  Teaching comes naturally to me as does class management.  I don't have behavior issues of any sort with any level - not more than once or twice per year anyway and again, never with the same student twice.  Kids like my classes.  They like seeing me in when their teacher is out. (Most teachers like it when I'm in too as class gets accomplished without the need for busy work.)  I often get asked why I don't teach full time all the time (too lazy to work full time and too addicted to travel).  If one doesn't have that ability to get kids wanting to be in their classes, I'm not sure how it would work.

Nonetheless, I have no plans to change.  Trust kids and have the good classroom experience kids want = kids end up living up to the high expectations one has of them too.  It's a great working relationship.  Hopefully it teaches them to have a good working relationship in their future jobs too - esp when they're the employer.

FWIW, the rare times I need to go during class time I can trust the kids in my classroom too.  I love that.

It's modifying school policy, but I don't care.  I'm sure admin knows.  I suspect they don't care either because I don't have problems in my classroom.  The rare time I do they support me 200% telling me they do this because I never have problems, so they know if I did, it was a real problem.  (There are a few teachers who share my policy - also some who are very well loved and respected.)

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Some of my kids have a 504 that states they can leave class whenever they want without explaining why. It's partially for bathroom issues. DD ended up with recurrent kidney infections and UTIs because she wouldn't go to the bathroom at school because it required asking. I know it's not exactly the same, but for some people, being asked to hold it is too much and causes physical problems. It could be fine and reasonable for most people and kids, but for those who it is a problem for, it makes it awkward for them to have to explain their situation publicly. 

So I think the policy is rude and discriminatory and lacks consideration that not everyone has the privilege of being able to time their bathroom needs conveniently. 

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re: factories

I certainly can't speak for what happens everywhere but that is absolutely not across the board.

Dh has worked at a factory for nearly 25 years and I know several other people that have worked/ are working in different factories, none of them wear diapers! They go when they need to go, just ask someone to cover for them. They also get longer breaks and lunch than the local PS does here.

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When I was in school, I don't believe there was a policy that nobody was allowed to go to the toilet at certain times, but you always had to ask for permission, and the teacher was not necessarily discreet and not necessarily understanding about it.  So it was embarrassing and humiliating and most kids would rather just wait than ask.

As I said in my first post, I hate that this has to be an issue, but I do understand both sides of it.  I am sure most teachers, or at least seasoned ones, would rather not have to police kids' bladders and bowels.

When my kids were in primary school, I had teachers talk to me about how long my kid spent in the bathroom.  Eldest would take forever to do #2.  Youngest claimed a need to pee rather often.  I confirmed that that was how it was at home too, and I never heard about it again.  Nobody wants kids having bathroom issues in class.

Now, at least one of my kids holds it all day rather than take time out of lunch or ask to go at other times.  I told her she should just do it, but it's her bladder.

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Whoa, "to talk with me over the phone if I felt like he wasn’t clear in his class mail  "     He didn't!   That was a verbal slap.  I would expect the teacher to treat even the kids better than that.  

Thirty minutes can be a very small time for lunch.   I remember having that amount of time in Junior High and sometimes having to continue eating WHILE walking out of the cafeteria because I ended up at the end of the line.  Bathroom was totally out of the question.  

I'd had to go to the bathroom frequently as a teen.   Some of it was a small bladder and sometimes there was no time to move between classes and going to the locker.   Some of it was that I was bleeding myself anemic and I sometimes had replace the tampon more often then every hour.  What teachers did was to demand you come by their class after school to spend a few minutes to 'make up the time'.   If you agreed instantly, like I did, they never actually made you stay.   Most kids didn't agree and sat back down.  
 

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I can see this from both the teacher's and student's point of view. I don't have any particular advice, but I will share an anecdote from our family.

DD13 attends a small private school for students with learning disabilities. Most of the students have IEPs, but the school develops their own learning plans and classroom goals for each student as well. This fall, one of DD's school goals involved bathroom usage. DD is extremely social, and so she used her breaks between classes for talking to friends and then would need to use class time for using the bathroom. Her teachers set a goal for her to use the restroom during breaks and request to leave the classroom less often. This worked well for DD, and her teachers say that she is not leaving class as much. In her case, she needed to become aware of the expectations and understand how to make choices that worked better within the school schedule. I appreciate how the school handled it, because they recognized a problem and presented a solution that worked.

OP, it sounds like your son is already aware of the need for him to try to go during breaks and that his need for a break is out of his control. If I were you, I would want the teacher to recognize the problem and try to find a solution that works, so I would reach out to him one more time. If the teacher is unwilling to bend or listen, I would bring it up with the principal.

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13 hours ago, StellaM said:

Diapers ? To work ? Oh man. Oh boy. 

Not only is that unhealthy (rashes, infections), undignified (smells, discomfort), it's an extra cost imposed on the worker (cost of diaper). 

Please tell me adults wearing diaper to work because they aren't allowed to go to the loo is an urban myth. Please!

I started working in a call center about 5 months ago. I was stunned at how limited my opportunities to go to the bathroom are. I don't have to stick to a schedule, exactly, but I have to be mindful of the call queue.  (I receive inbound calls; I'm not calling out unless I have to call a customer back.) If I can see that other people are available to take calls, then I go pretty quickly.  I can take care of business and be back at my desk in 2 1/2 - 3 minutes. 

If I am doing online chat, I can be trapped for 2 or more hours if chats come in one right after another and there is no one who can jump in so I can go unavailable. Since a chat can go 30 minutes or more... it's tough.  I've gotten over being embarrassed to say to a coworker, "hey Steve, can you jump into chat, I've gotta pee!"  

I'm supposed to drink a lot of water due to kidney stone history. I don't drink enough on the days I work, and I've thought about asking my kidney doctor for a letter stating that I need hydration and frequent bathroom breaks.  Imagine needing accommodations to pee! 

I do wear an incontinence pad every day.  So far, it hasn't been needed.  If anyone around me wears diapers, I don't know. But it wouldn't surprise me. And we are in one of the "better" call centers in terms of strictness, or so I'm told.   

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28 minutes ago, shawthorne44 said:

Whoa, "to talk with me over the phone if I felt like he wasn’t clear in his class mail  "     He didn't!   That was a verbal slap.  I would expect the teacher to treat even the kids better than that.  

 

Yeah, I think I'd have a hard time not responding with an email stating "Let me be EQUALLY clear that while DS will make every effort to take care of bodily needs prior to class that he IS to be permitted to use the bathroom on those occasions when he does need it. Otherwise I will be forced to take this issue to the principal as it directly relates to my student's health and well-being." The teacher's tone does make him sound like a condescending jerk.

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10 minutes ago, marbel said:

I started working in a call center about 5 months ago. I was stunned at how limited my opportunities to go to the bathroom are. I don't have to stick to a schedule, exactly, but I have to be mindful of the call queue.  (I receive inbound calls; I'm not calling out unless I have to call a customer back.) If I can see that other people are available to take calls, then I go pretty quickly.  I can take care of business and be back at my desk in 2 1/2 - 3 minutes. 

If I am doing online chat, I can be trapped for 2 or more hours if chats come in one right after another and there is no one who can jump in so I can go unavailable. Since a chat can go 30 minutes or more... it's tough.  I've gotten over being embarrassed to say to a coworker, "hey Steve, can you jump into chat, I've gotta pee!"  

 

Traditionally, some of the areas of USAA have had extremely strict break times.  You are allotted not only a certain amount of time, but also a certain time window--perhaps 10:13-!0:23 to take a break and use the bathroom.  You are expected to be back at your desk at 10:24 whether you were late to leave your desk or not.  

And astronauts quickly learned that it wasn't possible to take a bathroom break whenever they would like, Alan Shepard's bathroom needs have gone down in history...

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