Your opinion on teacher’s policy re: bathroom

[Syllieann]

It's super disruptive to have the kids using class time for potty breaks right after lunch.  Most kids should have no problem waiting the duration of the class if they went beforehand.  If my child couldn't go an hour without pooping his pants after eating I would be teaching him ways to deal with that...maybe changing what he eats and when he eats it.  If it is not possible to address it that way it would constitute a medical issue.  A simple note should take care of it.  I don't see any reason to divulge the nature of the medical issue.  Just a note from a doctor saying that the child has medical reason to use the bathroom during that time.  Furthermore, if it is an emergency I would instruct my child to go to the bathroom and accept the detention (or whatever) rather than actually crap his pants.  I don't believe the teacher would attempt to physically restrain him.  He may not go, but he CAN go.  

[EmseB]

1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

Honestly, if a person cannot wait 10 to 15 minutes, it may very well be a medical situation.  I of course cannot diagnose, I am not a doc of course.  But it's pretty unusual.  

Okay. Let's grant that someone who can't hold it 10 minutes needs a doctor's note. Most high school class periods are 45-60 minutes long. So what happens to the kid who has to go between minute 16 and minute 44 or 59 in a classroom with a policy that kids aren't allowed to go?

And, again, let's say someone can hold it uncomfortably for 45 minutes or an hour. That's not particularly healthy, I don't think, and really does not help one trying to learn anything of substance.

And I still don't understand. Why can't someone who has to go to the bathroom during class just...go to the bathroom? I have been in briefings with very important people and excused myself to go to the restroom. I have been in trainings or lecture classes with 300+ people and when people have to go to the bathroom, they go. Surely a class of 20-30 kids can manage this issue of people needing to go?

[KungFuPanda]

I wouldn’t even assume the policy was put into place because kids were avoiding class. My guess is, since their lunch is short, most spent it eating and talking to friends and neglected to prioritize a trip to the restroom. Then they get to class and realize they need to go to the point that every third hand-raise is a bathroom request and not a question. I’m sure the teacher used the bathroom before class like an organized adult and is a little frustrated that, in addition to English, he has to teach this life skill. Would you not allow your son to go on a field trip if it involved an after-lunch bus ride?

Spending the entire class period IN the class is not asking too much of the average, healthy student. How do these kids manage to ride busses, play sports or sit on an airplane when the seatbelt light is on? How will they cope with rush hour traffic or jury duty as adults? MOST people can manage their bowels. If someone cannot, that is a medical consideration that a person needs. I’m sure a doctor’s note would satisfy the teacher so your son can go when he needs to. The rest of the class probably won’t need this accommodation so the policy will hold and order will remain intact. 

I have a kid in a wheelchair that can manage to get to the bathroom during a too-short lunch AND get to the next class on time. He has to watch the clock and cut his lunch break short to do this but that’s his life and he copes. 

Maybe the answer is to eat lunch in ten minutes, talk/digest for ten minutes, then go to the bathroom for the last ten? Maybe he needs to

pack a lunch so he doesn’t waste precious minutes in a line?

Edited December 4, 2018 by KungFuPanda

[KungFuPanda]

38 minutes ago, EmseB said:

I don't know how to say this any more clearly. I did not have a medical issue. I had to go to the bathroom at the same time every day give or take 30 minutes and could not hold it for more than about 10-15 minutes. That is the warning my body gave me. I know that other people's bodies allow them to hold it for longer, in some cases much longer. I am not like this. Gosh, this is horrible to post on a public forum, but I'm putting it out there because I was met with this exact same lack of sympathy over and over again as a kid and it is embarrassing and socially isolating and extremely uncomfortable. When the whole thing would not have been an issue if I just could have walked the three doors down to the restroom, gone, and come back, usually in less than 5 minutes. I was a compliant rule follower and did not want to disrupt anyone's class time, much less my own. I just needed to go to the bathroom. It was not a medical issue.

Did you never have to deal with a time change? If you did, did you start needing to go before school or during second period? There can definitely be a phychological element to training your bowels and with qualified medical help you can adjust the timing/triggers so that your life isn’t disrupted. 

[SKL]

I do think most people in that age range can fairly easily hold it for several hours.  I do think that if every kid in the class decided they needed to go at some point during the 45 minutes, that would be ridiculous.  I would also note that very few healthy adults take frequent toilet breaks at work.  The policy that you don't get up and leave during class is more in line with realistic work life than not.  Adults on an assembly line, food counter, customer service desk, or in an important meeting will get dinged in one way or another if they leave their post to use the bathroom without a medical reason.

I hated high school with a fiery passion, and one of the reasons was  having all these rules and procedures around using the toilet.  It's stupid and dehumanizing.  But it's also stupid to have a bunch of kids use the bathroom as an excuse to avoid applying themselves in school - or worse, to have a fight or a smoke or whatever.  It isn't easy to address both sides of the issue in a typical high school.  Unfortunately having some policy is understandable.

[EmseB]

6 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

In a high school, not everyone who says they have to go to the bathroom actually has to go to the bathroom.  

Right. We don't disagree on that point. I still don't understand what this has to do with people who legitimately have to go.

If someone is caught out not using the bathroom when they said they had to go, then discipline them appropriately. No one ever said that kids should be able to roam the halls and hook up in the band room or whatever other scenario happens at high schools on any given day.

But a kid that has to go to the bathroom will go to the bathroom and then come back to class.

[SKL]

2 minutes ago, EmseB said:

Right. We don't disagree on that point. I still don't understand what this has to do with people who legitimately have to go.

If someone is caught out not using the bathroom when they said they had to go, then discipline them appropriately. No one ever said that kids should be able to roam the halls and hook up in the band room or whatever other scenario happens at high schools on any given day.

But a kid that has to go to the bathroom will go to the bathroom and then come back to class.

How would you police this? 

[Farrar]

I really sympathize with the thinking that this is overly controlling and wrong on a basic level.

But I've also been a classroom teacher and instituted this policy. For 90%+ kids, I do think that's the right approach. Kids need to develop a different routine. If your class is chill about letting kids go, you can end up with someone asking to go every two minutes. It's not about having a more engaging class or better class management skills. Kids will just develop the routine of settling in and then mid-class (or, heck, mid fun project) raising their hands and headed out. The vast majority of teens can control it for the time that a class takes. That's just medically true.

What do you do about the kids who really can't? I mean, once you break the "everyone is excusing themselves every day every minute" thing, then usually you can relax it a little and sort it out. Is it ideal? No. But neither is having your class interrupted constantly. When I was teaching, I did have a student with a medical need. I absolutely never applied the policy to that student. And if any student or parent had come to talk to me about a medical need, I'd have absolutely have modified sooner.

In an ideal world, I'd give kids more time between classes and a longer lunch though. Thirty minutes is really short.

[Farrar]

1 minute ago, SKL said:

How would you police this? 

For real.

And most of the time, if I really need to, I can work up a pee. Like, I need to get out of this meeting, sure, I can make myself pee. This is mostly what they're doing, not wandering the halls.

[EmseB]

3 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

Did you never have to deal with a time change? If you did, did you start needing to go before school or during second period? There can definitely be a phychological element to training your bowels and with qualified medical help you can adjust the timing/triggers so that your life isn’t disrupted. 

Oh my goodness. Yes, okay, sometimes I had to go during 2nd period instead of first.

Trust me when I say I would have rather have not had to go at school at all. But the real nightmare was having to go and having a (male) teacher look me in the eye and tell me, "No. Sit down and finish the lab."

And I figured out that my life isn't really disrupted at all since leaving high school because 99.9% of the time I can, as an adult, go to the restroom when I choose. I didn't need qualified medical help. I just had to use the bathroom. And being regular is kind of the opposite of a medical problem for most people. Holding it for hours (as one other poster mentioned) seems really, really unhealthy , honestly.

[Farrar]

Holding it for hours is problematic. But classes are rarely more than 45 minutes in schools. Assuming someone didn't need to go when the class starts, we're talking about holding it for half an hour and then going.

Everything's a balance... there's the need of the class as a whole to not be disrupted and disruptive and to develop new habits in when they use the bathroom. And there's the need of maybe a couple of kids in a regular size class who probably are going to have more trouble holding it. Ideally, the policy goes forward, but the teacher should be understanding of an individual chat with those students and possibly parents.

[EmseB]

4 minutes ago, SKL said:

How would you police this? 

How would I police kids doing something they shouldn't be doing in high schools? IDK, that would depend on the school and the administration. How is anything like that ever handled in any school?

If someone is caught hooking up in the band room, then they'd be sent to the office. If someone is walking to the restroom, then they would not be sent to the office. If someone is smoking in the bathroom, then they'd be sent to the office. If someone is pooping in the bathroom, then they would not be sent to the office.

Here's the thing, I was in classes where if you needed to use the bathroom, you could grab the pass that was hanging on the wall and go without asking anyone. So I know this can be done where a kid can just...use the bathroom during class and not make a big deal about it or abuse the policy. I was in the military and went through boot camp. I saw someone wet their pants in boot camp because they were afraid to ask to go. High school is not boot camp. Discipline issues can be handled however the school chooses to handle them. Someone going to the bathroom is not normally very disruptive, nor is it a discipline issue.

[SKL]

2 minutes ago, EmseB said:

How would I police kids doing something they shouldn't be doing in high schools? IDK, that would depend on the school and the administration. How is anything like that ever handled in any school?

If someone is caught hooking up in the band room, then they'd be sent to the office. If someone is walking to the restroom, then they would not be sent to the office. If someone is smoking in the bathroom, then they'd be sent to the office. If someone is pooping in the bathroom, then they would not be sent to the office.

Here's the thing, I was in classes where if you needed to use the bathroom, you could grab the pass that was hanging on the wall and go without asking anyone. So I know this can be done where a kid can just...use the bathroom during class and not make a big deal about it or abuse the policy. I was in the military and went through boot camp. I saw someone wet their pants in boot camp because they were afraid to ask to go. High school is not boot camp. Discipline issues can be handled however the school chooses to handle them. Someone going to the bathroom is not normally very disruptive, nor is it a discipline issue.

I believe that in this day and age, watching someone in the bathroom to confirm they are pooping vs. whatever else is an absolute no-go.  Or at least I hope it is.  Also, I assume there aren't staff members in every classroom / janitor closet when not in official use.

Unfortunately, at some point people started suing schools for not seeing everything that happens when kids sneak around where they aren't supposed to be.  Also we expect teachers to keep track of everyone both in and out of their classrooms somehow.  And we penalize teachers when students don't learn what is taught because they aren't there to hear it.

[EmseB]

1 minute ago, Farrar said:

Holding it for hours is problematic. But classes are rarely more than 45 minutes in schools. Assuming someone didn't need to go when the class starts, we're talking about holding it for half an hour and then going.

Everything's a balance... there's the need of the class as a whole to not be disrupted and disruptive and to develop new habits in when they use the bathroom. And there's the need of maybe a couple of kids in a regular size class who probably are going to have more trouble holding it. Ideally, the policy goes forward, but the teacher should be understanding of an individual chat with those students and possibly parents.

This is what I don't understand, though. How is it disruptive? I go to church services where maybe 5 people get up during the 40-minute sermon to go do whatever and it isn't disruptive. I've been in lectures where people get up and go and it's not disruptive. I have taught classes where people had to go to the bathroom. I honestly don't understand how someone quietly excusing themselves to go to the bathroom is a huge deal, even if a lot of people do it. But to say that I have to have a private chat about my bathroom habits with my teacher? I mean, it just seems so unnecessary and invasive.

In an younger elementary class, I get how it's disruptive because of logistics. But in middle or high school? A kid quietly going to use the restroom is so disruptive that a policy must be enacted that no one can go at all?

I'm actually surprised about the amount of people who think kids shouldn't be allowed to go to the bathroom when they need to because it's a classroom or learning environment.

[EmseB]

3 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

So how do you propose that teachers with 30 kids in a classroom tell the difference?  If 90% of kids can hold it, and kids who really can't hold it till the end of class are not common, how do you propose that the teachers determine the difference if a doc note isn't the answer?

I don't think it's their business to arbitrate who needs to go and who doesn't. If a kid says they need to go, then take them at their word. If they are going to hook up in the band room and miss class it's not likely that they were getting a lot out of sitting there anyway. If someone is caught doing something they shouldn't, then deal with it however that is dealt with in the school on any other occasion. 

The kids abusing a bathroom break are not the responsibility of the person who legit needs to go to the bathroom. As an adult I was allowed to go to the restroom even though I had co-workers who stretched their smoke breaks far too long or dawdled at the water cooler excessively. Their behavior was not my problem or my fault.

[Farrar]

Just now, EmseB said:

This is what I don't understand, though. How is it disruptive? I go to church services where maybe 5 people get up during the 40-minute sermon to go do whatever and it isn't disruptive. I've been in lectures where people get up and go and it's not disruptive. I have taught classes where people had to go to the bathroom. I honestly don't understand how someone quietly excusing themselves to go to the bathroom is a huge deal, even if a lot of people do it. But to say that I have to have a private chat about my bathroom habits with my teacher? I mean, it just seems so unnecessary and invasive.

In an younger elementary class, I get how it's disruptive because of logistics. But in middle or high school? A kid quietly going to use the restroom is so disruptive that a policy must be enacted that no one can go at all?

I'm actually surprised about the amount of people who think kids shouldn't be allowed to go to the bathroom when they need to because it's a classroom or learning environment.

Have you ever been a classroom teacher? I think what you're saying is maybe true for college students. But when 14 year old boys stand up and walk across a room, you wouldn't believe the damage they can cause - I remember a student, who stood up and walked across the classroom to retrieve a new pencil and in the process knocked over two desks and stepped on someone's backpack and when the whole class went nuts, was like, what? I didn't do that. Because he literally did not know that he did. They have some wacky body control.

And just logistically, in a lot of public high schools, you're not allowed as a teacher to let kids out of the room. You have to stop what you're doing and write a pass. When I was teaching in public school, at one point, they banned the big wooden passes. Passes had to be handwritten, dated, and signed. That takes the teacher's time. Plus, as a teacher, you can often get in trouble for allowing too many kids out of the room during class. There are hall monitors out there. They can report on you and you can get it from the principal - what's up with your class, why do so many kids have to use the bathroom. You may think I'm exaggerating, but I'm really not.

Ideally, kids should be more focused. It *should* be like a college lecture or like church. But the reality is that teens aren't that great at managing themselves yet. They will push the boundaries. Letting kids just get up and leave... it will become a revolving door - even if you're doing a good job.

I think... the way you change it is by building a culture from the ground up. But doing that in a traditional high school that's so big that lots of people don't know each other and some kids simply don't want to really be there most days? It's not happening most of the time.

I feel for you and what you're saying. But to me, a student like you were... in the balance, yeah, should quietly go to the teacher and say, I am someone who feels an urgency to go and I don't know what to do with this policy. I know that sucks, but so does having your class constantly milling around and up and down because you allow all students to get up and leave whenever they want.

 

[Farrar]

7 minutes ago, EmseB said:

I don't think it's their business to arbitrate who needs to go and who doesn't. If a kid says they need to go, then take them at their word. If they are going to hook up in the band room and miss class it's not likely that they were getting a lot out of sitting there anyway. If someone is caught doing something they shouldn't, then deal with it however that is dealt with in the school on any other occasion. 

The kids abusing a bathroom break are not the responsibility of the person who legit needs to go to the bathroom. As an adult I was allowed to go to the restroom even though I had co-workers who stretched their smoke breaks far too long or dawdled at the water cooler excessively. Their behavior was not my problem or my fault.

There's a part of me that totally agrees with this, by the way. But this is where we run into the problems of compulsory schooling. And also the problems of teens. Teens are too old to not have control of things like when they get up to use the bathroom. But they're also not responsible enough to be trusted to do so without disrupting things en masse. It's a complete Catch-22. It's encapsulating why teens are so hard. It's obvious that for little kids, you have to oversee things. It's obvious that for college students, you have to let them get up and leave and fail. What do you do with boundary pushing teens? A lot of kids, if given the option, would go to the bathroom every day and never return if it wasn't policed in some fashion.

[Mbelle]

Well these schools sound like prisons. 

I know when I have to go and am stuck in traffic all I can think about is peeing.  If this was a classroom I would learn nothing.

[EmseB]

1 minute ago, OKBud said:

 

I think you went to school with people who were more conscientious than the rest of us.

I was a stone cold *jerk* in high school, and for sure not above using restroom breaks to escape both stuff I knew already and stuff I felt was impossible to learn when I was 14.

So, again, I think the OP should either homeschool or ask for breaks to be lengthened instead of insisting that her son HAS TO GO exactly right in the middle of English class.

I would bet I went to an average school where kids abused restroom breaks and made out under the bleachers instead of going to class. Or used the ventilation in the wood shop classroom to smoke pot (that did not work out how they planned). Or skipped first period to sleep in. Or any number of other disciplinary issues. But I don't think that's the fault of any other kid in class that just needs to go to the bathroom.

I'm not that gullible. I sent my kid in the WC with his math workbook the other day because he was having a fun time dawdling all morning and he was driving me nuts. When my 3yo tells me that she has to go right after we just went to the super fun public restroom at McD's, I'll tell her she can wait. But I'm their mother and I can tell the difference. If an acquaintance told me they needed to go, I'd just take them at their word unless I had reason not to. If I had to deal with 30 acquaintances all day, every day, I'm certainly not going to tell all of them that I certainly know that none of them will ever have to go in my class so they better get their bodies on my schedule. I just wouldn't. And if I had them all in chaos because I've my policy I'd look for other ways to address it rather than banning the bathroom with a blanket policy.

But I can see that I'm in the minority. That's fine. We do homeschool, so now I can add another reason why to my list: so my kids can use the bathroom if they want to and not bother anyone except their long-suffering mother.  😄

[Reefgazer]

3 hours ago, Just Kate said:

My ds is age 14, in 9th grade at a small Christian school. He’s been at this school since third grade and we’ve always loved it. However recently a few very young teachers and there have been multiple issues in these classes. Ds rarely gets in trouble (if he does, it’s for something silly like talking in class) and is generally viewed as a well-behaved kid. 

Ds has a 30 minute lunch period and then has English class directly after. Just recently, the English teacher changes the classroom policy and students can no longer use the bathroom during his class. His opinion is that they should go during lunch. Twice since making this new policy, ds almost had an accident in his class because the teacher wouldn’t let him go. Both times, the teacher finally relented and let him go at the very end of class (right before the bell). 

Over the weekend I sent the teacher an email and kindly asked if ds could be allowed to use the bathroom during his class if necessary. I let the teacher know that oftentimes ds has to use the bathroom right after eating and that it doesn’t surprise me that he occasionally needs to go during class. The teacher emailed me back and basically said that it is his new policy to not allow students to use the bathroom during his class and that he feels that ds should be able to go either before or after lunch. He offered to schedule a time to talk with me over the phone if I felt like he wasn’t clear in his class mail  

I want to respond back, but I guess I’m looking for validation. I don’t think that it fair for a teacher to say that a student can never use the bathroom during their class and I’m upset that this is becoming such a big deal. 

What do you think of this policy? How would you feel if you were me?

 

I think the policy is ridiculous.  Get a doctor note so that teacher is forced to let the child go when he needs to, or take it up the chain of command.  Can you imagine someone telling you that you can't go to the John?

[bolt.]

I’m less concerned about kids getting into mischief instead of attending all of their classes than some posters here.

Upfront, I affirm that I want teachers (and school policies) to advocate and facilitate students attending as much class as they possibly can.

However, I’m of the ‘lead a horse to water’ line of thinking regarding kids who actually want to skip class to go for a stroll, nap, smoke or ‘hook up’. I don’t mind if nobody polices that. Teach the kids who want to be there. Attempt to inspire the others... but if they want to lie about their washroom needs and wander: they are only hurting themselves. (Unless they are hurting others, damaging property, etc.)

As a bright high schooler, I went for a leisurely stroll to and from the washroom in multiple classes most days. Usually I would ask after the lecture during ‘now work on what you just learned and finish for homework’ time. It didn’t hurt anyone and none of my teachers ever seemed irritated at my predictability. Reflecting on it now, I wonder why I wanted to do that. I think I liked being alone (in the quiet hallway) and I wanted to move after sitting in the lecture.

[SKL]

1 minute ago, StellaM said:

What about teen girls who flood ? They have ZERO control over that. Surely nobody wants them to sit there leaking for 40 min ?

Honestly, people need to go to the loo at awkward times sometimes. If you work in a job that won't let you go when you need to go, that job considers you an automaton, not a human.

In class, let students go and return singly. That gets around the '10 at once' deal. 

Being a girl with a male teacher when the woman thing hit was the worst.  Theoretically you go whisper to the teacher or ask to go to the nurse's office.  Realistically that is not gonna happen in most cases.  Girls figure out a work-around if they can.

But I believe (or hope) that high school teachers have policies about this that girls can go if they have that issue.

Teen years are so hard.  My girls are at the age where they are trying to figure out how to plan for their feminine needs.  I give them advice, but ultimately they have to make their own mistakes and live with them.  Like we all did.

[EmseB]

10 minutes ago, Farrar said:

There's a part of me that totally agrees with this, by the way. But this is where we run into the problems of compulsory schooling. And also the problems of teens. Teens are too old to not have control of things like when they get up to use the bathroom. But they're also not responsible enough to be trusted to do so without disrupting things en masse. It's a complete Catch-22. It's encapsulating why teens are so hard. It's obvious that for little kids, you have to oversee things. It's obvious that for college students, you have to let them get up and leave and fail. What do you do with boundary pushing teens? A lot of kids, if given the option, would go to the bathroom every day and never return if it wasn't policed in some fashion.

1

So the only thing keeping these kids in class is a strict no-bathroom policy? If it's a Catch-22, I'd rather err on the side of letting them go to the bathroom, to be honest. I would deal with truancy or cutting the same way I'd deal with it via any other means...report it to the office. If they are 14 or older, there's nothing physically I can do to force them to learn, or even be in class. If I thought that banning bathroom use would make them into better students, then maybe I would consider it.

[SKL]

I guess as an introvert I just went inside my head when I needed a break.  Which was often.  😛

Full disclosure though, I was told I had the worst attendance record in the history of my high school.  I used to walk to school, and I was frequently late due to putzing and enjoying the beautiful sunrises etc.  If I signed in tardy, it was a big hassle, so I would just skip whatever period was going on and walk in when the next class began.  If I lost track of time and found myself late for 2nd period, I'd skip that one too.  As I never signed in, I would be marked absent for the whole day.  (I still had excellent grades and my teaches liked me, but the office staff didn't like my antics.  Of course nowadays, you couldn't get away with all those absences.)  So maybe I'm the wrong person to talk about skipping classes ....

[Pippen]

2 hours ago, Just Kate said:

 

They have four minutes between classes and they also have to go to their lockers to switch books because they can’t take their backpacks into class. The school is tiny, so it definitely doesn’t take long to switch classes. But with also needing to stop at a locker, 4 minutes isn’t much time. 

Can't they take the books for two classes with them and eliminate the locker stop?

[SKL]

2 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

There's a big problem in a school if a humane bathroom policy means many students are using it to cut class or truant regularly. If you can only get kids in a seat by making the entire class pretend they don't have bowels, bladders or a uterus, then it's not a very good class/school. 

Honestly, when I teach, if an older kid needs the bathroom regularly, and I suspect it's not for 'good' reason, I use that as a prompt to reflect on if I am meeting their learning needs effectively.

Sure, it's an ask when you've got 30 kids, and not 10, but the principle is the same.

To be fair, they just had 30 minutes to do as they pleased.  I don't think it's unreasonable to ask them to attend to their bodily needs to the extent possible before class.

[Farrar]

10 minutes ago, EmseB said:

So the only thing keeping these kids in class is a strict no-bathroom policy? If it's a Catch-22, I'd rather err on the side of letting them go to the bathroom, to be honest. I would deal with truancy or cutting the same way I'd deal with it via any other means...report it to the office. If they are 14 or older, there's nothing physically I can do to force them to learn, or even be in class. If I thought that banning bathroom use would make them into better students, then maybe I would consider it.

For a surprising number of kids, yes. If it was just a question of kids who don't want to be there... well, okay. I honestly think we shouldn't force teens to be in school who don't want to be in school. But for a lot of kids, it's a "soft break." They want to wander out, do their makeup, check their phones while sitting in the stall, take the longest route possible back, etc. It's a disruption when multiple kids are doing this all the time. There's not some great, perfect answer to this. I mean, anything that might punish them for it (say, pop quiz that you can't make up) would punish kids who are legitimately going to the bathroom too.

The best answers, IMHO, aren't things that teachers have at their disposal. Like, changing the set up of the school to give kids some down time built into their days would be ideal. Making lunch long enough to eat and have a bowel movement. Giving kids enough time to get across two buildings and use the bathroom. Having school communities where teachers actually can really know the kids so they can decide this sort of stuff on a more individual basis. Having options other than one single path through school so kids who don't want to be there don't have to be. Building in more respect for kids from the get go so that they learn how to handle themselves so that by the time they're in high school you can trust them more because they haven't been consistently treated like prisoners all their lives. But these aren't things individual teachers can just fix.

Individual teachers have to run their class and not get fired for letting kids out. They have to write passes. They have to get kids to pass a test or they lose their jobs. They're also stuck in the system. They also can't leave the room to go if they need to go. And that's also a function of not being in a system that's trusting. The system doesn't trust them either. None of this has easy answers.

[mom2scouts]

2 hours ago, Just Kate said:

 

Ds is also pretty clockwork with going. Since his lunch is only 30 minutes long, he tries to go to the restroom at the end of lunch, but his body isn’t always ready to go then. And yes, for the most part we are talking Number 2. So he can’t just hold it until class is over (and even if he could, he only has four minutes between classes, so even though it is a tiny school there still isn’t much time to go to the bathroom then). 

My mom is 76 years old and she still remembers a boy in high school who had to use the bathroom one hour after lunch every day. He was in study hall and she said he asked every day if he could go, was always denied, and ended up pooping his pants every day. That's the only thing she remembers about him. It's actually a healthy thing to have your body on a regular schedule, but you can't always control what that may be.

I'm sympathetic to teachers who have students misuse bathroom trips and disrupt the class, but I can't approve of not letting a student go to the bathroom. My shy and introverted son peed his pants several times in first grade because his very intimidating teacher wouldn't let him go during a lesson (just one of the many reasons I've homeschooled him since then) and after being refused a few times, he was too scared to ask. I finally got her to agree to just let him go without asking when he needed to go and he did not abuse it.

I also admit to not having any sympathy for the middle school teacher who wouldn't let one son go to the bathroom right across the hall when he told her he felt sick. She insisted that class would be over soon and he could wait until then. Obviously he couldn't wait because he finally jumped up and tried to run out of the room right as the bell rang and he threw up right in the doorway. No students could get in or out of the classroom until they got the custodian to come and clean the carpet (yes, carpet!). THAT was disruptive to the teacher's next class and to the other classes students were trying to attend. Son said she never denied bathroom access to anyone after that.😄 

[hippiemamato3]

1 hour ago, happysmileylady said:

In a high school, not everyone who says they have to go to the bathroom actually has to go to the bathroom.  

Perhaps not, but that doesn't mean that the ones who really do should be punished for it. 

[Shoeless]

1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

I can see the teacher having this policy (as long as there some consideration if there is a medical issue or a rare request).  When I was in school it was extremely rare for someone to go to the bathroom during class.  That is what lunch time and changing class period times were for.  The classroom is not the only time that people are asked to wait to certain times to use the bathroom.  You don't jump up when the plane it taking off to go to the bathroom; you go before you board the plane.  You don't get up in the middle of a theater performance and disrupt those around you to go to the bathroom unless it is an emergency (and some theaters will not let you return to your seat until an intermission).  I have been on jury duty where the judge will not allow people to go to the bathroom.  The symphony violinist doesn't get up in the middle of the performance to go to the bathroom.  The basketball game doesn't stop for the referee to go to the bathroom.  In many situations the teacher is not in a situation to jump up and run to the bathroom whenever he wants.

3

All of those examples involve adults with full authority over their day.  The violinist has the autonomy to say "I'll make time before the concert to use the bathroom".  Teens in school don't always have the luxury of autonomy.  They don't always get to say "I'll stop in the bathroom before chemistry".  You only get to use the bathroom at lunch if the lunchroom supervisor allows you to.  You don't always get to use the bathroom during class change if your classes are far apart or the bathroom is already full.  Or you run into a sour-faced aide/monitor who decides that "enough" people have used the bathroom during class change, and s/he isn't going to let anyone else in because s/he feels disrespected and this is a way to exert some control   

Teens in school don't have autonomy during their day.  Not using the bathroom before class isn't always due to lack of planning. 

Back in the stone age, (aka when I was in school), several of my teachers told the class "I know you don't have long to change classes.  If you are a few minutes late coming to class because you had to use the bathroom, it's fine. Just come in quietly, take your seat, and try not to make it a regular occurrence."  And wonder of wonders, it's a system that worked.  No one abused it because we liked being treated like regular human beings instead of wee naughty children that needed to ask.       

[EmseB]

40 minutes ago, OKBud said:

When I worked in a factory, I wasn't allowed to use the restroom when I wanted. They'd relent in the height of summer (because they needed us to drink tonnes of water to avoid over-heating because it was insanely hot in there) but otherwise we had to go during breaks.

For that matter (!) when I was a teacher, I couldn't just leave the class to make water. I, too, had to wait for breaks. Ditto doing hair, between clients.

Now that I am thinking about it, the only job I ever had where I could just walk away to the restroom was when I worked overnight in a hotel and that's because almost no one was there. My husband can currently schedule his own time that way, but that's not always the case. I bet personal experience this way strongly influences people's responses. 

So if you had to go in those situations, what would happen? I mean, I'm 99% positive I've had a hairdresser say something like, "I just have to go to the restroom real quick, I'll be right back." I don't know for sure because it seems unremarkable enough for me to not take note of it, but I feel like that's happened before. I know that teaching positions are notorious for not allowing breaks because of a lack of aides, but I'm not sure that's the model I want to use for if a student can go. Or a factory that would say that'd have to go on schedule.

It's not like I don't understand that there are situations where someone can't go. I have dealt with those outside of high school. I just don't think high school should be one of those situations where someone should have to sit and wait to the point of discomfort, or be made to think they have a medical problem because their body doesn't conform to a bell schedule. But it's just so awful to have someone in authority tell you that you are not allowed to relieve yourself.  It obviously brings up very passionate feelings for me. 😄

 

[Farrar]

3 minutes ago, StellaM said:

I wonder if our school breaks are better set up for genuine bathroom needs. We had a 20 minute recess at 11, and a 50 minute lunch break. 

50 minutes break is much more likely to see kids able to eat, have some downtime, and go.

No high school in the US has a break of any kind (maybe some private schools) and most don't have lunch that long. At some US high schools, the schools are so large and the time to change classes so short that kids have to literally run to get to their next class. No time for the bathroom.

It's a systematic problem more than anything else, I think. Individual teachers are really in a bind.

[Pen]

How many times per day does your son have bowel movements typically? 

If only once, might it be possible to try to adjust his schedule somehow?  My guess is that most students usually have bowel movement before or after school, and only rarely in the middle of day. 

If multiple times could he have something going on like irritable bowel or food sensitivities?

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

I think a healthy teenager can probably manage to avoid needing the restroom during the one hour a day he has English class. I’m guessing multiple, disruptive bathroom trips during his class was the reason the teacher made the policy. With the policy in place I’m sure he has fewer disruptions. Most teens without medical issues can manage this schedule. I wouldn’t argue further unless my kid had a medical need. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

Holding it for hours is problematic. But classes are rarely more than 45 minutes in schools. Assuming someone didn't need to go when the class starts, we're talking about holding it for half an hour and then going.

Everything's a balance... there's the need of the class as a whole to not be disrupted and disruptive and to develop new habits in when they use the bathroom. And there's the need of maybe a couple of kids in a regular size class who probably are going to have more trouble holding it. Ideally, the policy goes forward, but the teacher should be understanding of an individual chat with those students and possibly parents.

As someone else pointed out, there is not time to go between classes, and so it isn't holding it for 45 minutes, it's holding it until the end of the school day which isn't realistic, or going during another class. 

14 minutes ago, SKL said:

To be fair, they just had 30 minutes to do as they pleased.  I don't think it's unreasonable to ask them to attend to their bodily needs to the extent possible before class.

I know I can't poop on demand, can you?

8 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

Have a bathroom monitor, then, or a hall monitor. Idk. 

Letting kids, who are forced to be there, have no say in when they can go to the loo is just not OK as a school wide discipline strategy, imo.

 

Yes, in my school there were administrators who wandered the halls and checked the bathrooms regularly. 

[Pen]

Could he get an after lunch study hall?

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Pen said:

How many times per day does your son have bowel movements typically? 

If only once, might it be possible to try to adjust his schedule somehow?  My guess is that most students usually have bowel movement before or after school, and only rarely in the middle of day. 

If multiple times could he have something going on like irritable bowel or food sensitivities?

Um, it's healthy and normal to have multiple bowl movements a day if eating plenty of good, healthy food with the recommended amount of fiber. 

[SKL]

Yeah, it was hard to do anything between classes when I was in school.  We had 2.5 minutes between classes.  Sometimes the classes were pretty far apart.  No running allowed of course, and it was not unusual to be held up because some fools were blocking the hall necking or fighting or whatever.

Most teachers were understanding if you rushed into class slightly late.  That is different from interrupting in the middle of a lesson to get a restroom pass.

[EmseB]

13 minutes ago, Farrar said:

For a surprising number of kids, yes. If it was just a question of kids who don't want to be there... well, okay. I honestly think we shouldn't force teens to be in school who don't want to be in school. But for a lot of kids, it's a "soft break." They want to wander out, do their makeup, check their phones while sitting in the stall, take the longest route possible back, etc. It's a disruption when multiple kids are doing this all the time. There's not some great, perfect answer to this. I mean, anything that might punish them for it (say, pop quiz that you can't make up) would punish kids who are legitimately going to the bathroom too.

The best answers, IMHO, aren't things that teachers have at their disposal. Like, changing the set up of the school to give kids some down time built into their days would be ideal. Making lunch long enough to eat and have a bowel movement. Giving kids enough time to get across two buildings and use the bathroom. Having school communities where teachers actually can really know the kids so they can decide this sort of stuff on a more individual basis. Having options other than one single path through school so kids who don't want to be there don't have to be. Building in more respect for kids from the get go so that they learn how to handle themselves so that by the time they're in high school you can trust them more because they haven't been consistently treated like prisoners all their lives. But these aren't things individual teachers can just fix.

Individual teachers have to run their class and not get fired for letting kids out. They have to write passes. They have to get kids to pass a test or they lose their jobs. They're also stuck in the system. They also can't leave the room to go if they need to go. And that's also a function of not being in a system that's trusting. The system doesn't trust them either. None of this has easy answers.

I appreciate all this. I would still let kids go to the bathroom. That just wouldn't be something I'd want to be in charge of for another person that I'm not related to, no matter how frustrating.

[SKL]

14 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

 

As someone else pointed out, there is not time to go between classes, and so it isn't holding it for 45 minutes, it's holding it until the end of the school day which isn't realistic, or going during another class. 

I know I can't poop on demand, can you?

Yes, in my school there were administrators who wandered the halls and checked the bathrooms regularly. 

I generally don't poop on demand, but I can wait for quite a while after the first urge to go, unless of course I'm sick.

I'm sure it's physically best to be able to squat and poo the instant you feel the urge, but humans and even many animals don't normally do that.  We are designed to be able to wait for the appropriate time and place.

Again - there are exceptions, for whom the policy needs to be relaxed, but in general it is not a real issue.

Edited December 4, 2018 by SKL

[Pen]

 

I have heard that up to 3 per day is  considered to be within “normal” range— but that could still potentially be outside of school hours entirely.  

I still think there could be a potential thing to ask physician about with a 14yo who apparently cannot go at all during lunch, and then has to go so desperately that he is in danger of soiling himself within the following hour. 

But it could be helped by either a personal accommodation for him to leave class as needed, or perhaps a study hall after lunch from which he can leave as needed. 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Pen

[Pronghorn]

There are ways to keep kids from making out in the empty band room, etc. To start, empty classrooms could be kept locked. A hall monitor could walk the halls and sniff out any cigarette smoke emanating from the bathroom.

[Farrar]

6 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

Another reason to be glad not to be teaching in schools. 

Same. I literally could not cut it for this and a million other reasons. My hat is off to those who can. We need schools. We need them to change, but we also need people who make the best of them in the meantime, including teachers who figure out how to balance competing needs and keep their jobs.

[SKL]

5 minutes ago, OKBud said:

 

At the salon I would have been fired had I made a habit of that. I did not.

At the factory, I was written up when I did it. It was worth it and fine, though wouldn't have been if I planned to be a manager. 

When I worked in a factory, they said we were allowed to stop and use the toilet if we needed to, but it affected both the quality and quantity of the work we were evaluated on.  So obviously if you need to go, you need to go, but there is an incentive to try to wait if you can.

In business meetings, I would never get up and excuse myself if I was an important player in the room.  (Again, allowing for emergencies, which never happened to me.)  It would be so disruptive to make everyone wait while I went and attended to whatever.  Or to make them catch me up when I got back.

Even just driving or being on a plane - you have to wait most of the time.  If you truly cannot wait, then you have to plan around that, e.g., change your eating schedule or your travel schedule or wear some protection.  Obviously if you have that problem, you should be able to get an exception at school and hopefully at work.

[Farrar]

5 minutes ago, Pronghorn said:

There are ways to keep kids from making out in the empty band room, etc. To start, empty classrooms could be kept locked. A hall monitor could walk the halls and sniff out any cigarette smoke emanating from the bathroom.

To be clear, the issue is not kids cutting or wandering the halls or whatever. The issue is mostly that kids have to ask permission and teachers have to fill out passes. And if five kids do this in the course of a class (not unusual if your policy is lax) then that's time out of teaching you have to take. And it interrupts the flow of you helping others or actually instructing. And as kids get up in small classrooms, they sometimes have to literally move desks around and they make noise and disrupt things going back and forth. And then you have to go catch them up when they return, five or twenty minutes later. It's not only that they're cutting, it's that the actual getting up is disruptive because 14 yos are pretty cruddy at doing this quietly and the system at the vast majority of schools makes it into an ordeal anyway. They can't just quietly stand and leave and then slip back in even if they wanted to.

Yes, it sucks. No, there's no some magic answer that doesn't involve fixing some much deeper problems with how schools run.

[KungFuPanda]

1 hour ago, EmseB said:

Oh my goodness. Yes, okay, sometimes I had to go during 2nd period instead of first.

Trust me when I say I would have rather have not had to go at school at all. But the real nightmare was having to go and having a (male) teacher look me in the eye and tell me, "No. Sit down and finish the lab."

And I figured out that my life isn't really disrupted at all since leaving high school because 99.9% of the time I can, as an adult, go to the restroom when I choose. I didn't need qualified medical help. I just had to use the bathroom. And being regular is kind of the opposite of a medical problem for most people. Holding it for hours (as one other poster mentioned) seems really, really unhealthy , honestly.

I agree that holding it for hours is not good for you. However, being unable to hold it without incident for 15-20 minutes could really effect your quality of life. Maybe I’m completely wrong, but it seem completely abnormal for a 14-year-old to be unable to do this. How could someone function normally if they can never be more than 5 minutes from a bathroom?

[rebcoola]

I don't agree with the policy but I was under the impression it was the norm.  In High School we had 10 minute passing periods and you were expected to do everything personal during that time.  It wasn't a teacher policy it was school policy they could let you out but it was rare that kids ever asked.  My kids use a charter school and they have 5 minutes to transfer classes in an 8 room building and even in Kinder they are encouraged (not forced) to use the bathroom during passing time.

Edited December 4, 2018 by rebcoola

[mom2scouts]

I remember never being able to go to the bathroom between classes. Our lunch periods were only 20 minutes so I could choose between eating or a bathroom break. We only had 3 minutes between class and it often took that long just to get from one end of the building to the other. As for teenage girls, I think I'm still scarred from that period flooding incident in 9th grade. I knew I should have gone to the bathroom before history class, but I would've been late and I was a very compliant rule follower. I'm still embarassed by that.

 

ETA: Most teachers I've known kept a large wooden hall pass hanging on a hook near the door. They aren't stopping class to write out hall passes. They just hand it over or the student grabs it on the way out the door. It doesn't need to be disruptive at all.

Edited December 4, 2018 by mom2scouts

[Farrar]

2 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I agree that holding it for hours is not good for you. However, being unable to hold it without incident for 15-20 minutes could really effect your quality of life. Maybe I’m completely wrong, but it seem completely abnormal for a 14-year-old to be unable to do this. How could someone function normally if they can never be more than 5 minutes from a bathroom?

The student that I mentioned who had a medical issue had this problem. It deeply affected that student's life and it was extremely limiting. I know that there are times when I've really had to go... but I do keep thinking that the vast majority of people can be away from a bathroom for longer. In and of itself, having to wait half an hour shouldn't hurt any student without a medical need. When schools are set up so that you can't go for longer, it's a big problem.

But as a classroom teacher, I can't tell you how many times I had kids come into the room, chat with friends for the whole passing period, then ask to use the bathroom less than five minutes after the bell. Yeah, as an adult, we get more control, but not always. And we learn to plan ahead. Like, I'm leaving for this drive or taking this walk or heading into this meeting so I'd better go now or I'll have to wait. That's just life.

[Pronghorn]

The funny thing to me in reading this is what happened to me this morning. I ate breakfast, went to the bathroom, drove my child to community college, a half hour trip. As I walked with my child toward her class, I asked her if she minded if we stopped at the first building we saw to see if we could find a bathroom. I absolutely needed it! And, yes, I will have to get a job somewhere other than a factory, but kids do not have a choice to avoid school like I can avoid a factory job.

So, I guess I'd better call the doctor tomorrow and schedule a full bowel workup!

[EmseB]

2 minutes ago, SKL said:

When I worked in a factory, they said we were allowed to stop and use the toilet if we needed to, but it affected both the quality and quantity of the work we were evaluated on.  So obviously if you need to go, you need to go, but there is an incentive to try to wait if you can.

In business meetings, I would never get up and excuse myself if I was an important player in the room.  (Again, allowing for emergencies, which never happened to me.)  It would be so disruptive to make everyone wait while I went and attended to whatever.  Or to make them catch me up when I got back.

Even just driving or being on a plane - you have to wait most of the time.  If you truly cannot wait, then you have to plan around that, e.g., change your eating schedule or your travel schedule or wear some protection.  Obviously if you have that problem, you should be able to get an exception at school and hopefully at work.

And yet, given the issues I had growing up, as an adult I never had the same issues. I was in important meetings before I had kids. I worked fast food. I drive in traffic and get stuck. I was in the military. Nothing was ever so bad as being down the hall from a bathroom and being told by a teacher that I couldn't use it as a teen girl amongst other teens. 

Just now, KungFuPanda said:

I agree that holding it for hours is not good for you. However, being unable to hold it without incident for 15-20 minutes could really effect your quality of life. Maybe I’m completely wrong, but it seem completely abnormal for a 14-year-old to be unable to do this. How could someone function normally if they can never be more than 5 minutes from a bathroom?

How does being able to hold it for 20 minutes equate to not being more than 5 minutes from a bathroom? This math in your post doesn't seem to add up. 15 minutes seems like a pretty normal amount of time to get to a bathroom if one has to go, to be honest. In an office or classroom situation or at home there's one usually down the hall. Other situations may vary and I'm not planning my life out around bathrooms by any means (well, that's not true because I have kids, but not for myself anyway). There are people I know who can hold it all day because they don't want to use work bathrooms. I am not one of those people, but I'm also not scoping for bathrooms because I'm going to lose my stuff in 5 minutes if I don't have one handy. All things being equal, I'd rather not wait more than 20 minutes.