Menu
Jump to content

What's with the ads?

displace

Following instructions

Recommended Posts

Any guidance on working with DS10 on following instructions?  He is compliant when I ask him to clean, do X or Y around the house, etc.  With schoolwork, he’s always struggled with this.  He doesn’t want to follow instructions.  I think it’s his giftedness combined with his disabilities and how his brain works with forming very different and broad connections.  For some subjects it’s not a problem and I don’t ask him to do things a certain way, we go off on tangents, find work-arounds, etc.  However, with some subjects, like math, it’s always been a struggle and is now prohibitive to his education with me as a teacher.  Frequently with remediation subjects (writing and reading), it’s also a struggle.  But these subjects have not much of a workaround solution.  You have to read, form letters, and do math problems a certain way.

Typical math situation: 

me- Do step 1, which is retype math problem exactly (and explanation of why given).  We use modmath and typing it first is step to solving it.  Clear warning that I’m not helping him solve until it’s retyped.

ds- tries to solve 4 step problem without writing it down, asks for help, multiple errors in operations, numbers, answers, etc.

me- retype math problem exactly

ds- tries to solve math problem only 2 steps instead of whole problem, is now frustrated

me- retype math problem exactly.

Repeat but with tears and complaints and frustration for a few more times, ending with breaks all around.  This was today, after having had long discussions all week about needing to follow instructions for some subjects to be able to do the work.  Also, accommodations are given.  The reality is I think he doesn’t want to do the work and go through the effort of multiple steps and my ability to act calm forever and help is limited.  He will not do the first step, to retype the problem, and he wants to just solve it.  But he makes mistakes from the retype and most steps along the way.  Even if I did the first step and retyped it, he will jump five steps and try to solve mentally when he needs to go step by step.  Plus, I  accommodate a LOT and he is very capable of typing into his program and is expected to.  Conceptually, I believe he understands most of what we’re doing, but I need to verify what’s happening because of his disabilities (is he not seeing well, typing well, doing the math, getting distracted, etc?).  

Same with reading.  I ask him to sound out the first syllable ONLY, then he just starts guessing words without even sounding out the first syllable (which he’s saying incorrectly), then finally after multiple tries and me repeating instructions 5 times, we move on to second syllable and it’s a repeat random guessing of words.  Or spelling: spell syllable X and he randomly spells out the whole word multiple times incorrectly.

So, I’d like something to help him “get it” that when I ask him to do X in school, he does it.  I’m drowning and tired of explaining this to him all the time that sometimes we need to take baby steps to do it right.  I’ve always encouraged free thought, exploration, etc, but he also needs to know how to just Do What Is Asked.  I typed up a list of expectations for him during school work with steps (stop talking and listen, think about it, and follow instructions, etc), because he also will talk over me frequently and is very emotional.

Any morals/books/workbooks/resources/videos/websites/help?

Edited by displace
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When in doubt, eat cookies. Especially this time of year. Go make a batch of cookies and keep eating and see if the problem doesn't get solved. 

I want to take your whole list very seriously and engage, but sometimes the answer really is like that, a bigger picture thing going on. So sometimes you have to back up, take a deep breath, eat cookies, re-callibrate, take a break, come back fresh. Especially this time of year. If you're trying to do school work after the transition back from Thanksgiving, how is that going? If he's feeling some puberty, how is that going? If you're feeling some stress with presents not wrapped, tree not decorated, etc., how is that going?

It's really hard to get big picture and see what's going on and instead you get sucked into the list. So my advice is first eat cookies. Whatever is going on will be more clear when you and he have eaten enough of them. It could be he has some attitude going, but it could be other stuff too. It's probably a combo of things. I kinda got lost in the absoluteness of your requirement on him typing the math, so I couldn't get through the rest. I'll go look up mod math and see why typing the math problems is so important, but for now I would just go eat cookies. It's more important that you have a RELATIONSHIP, and you can build that with cookies. You can solve anything if you have your relationship and keep it calm.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, displace said:

So, I’d like something to help him “get it” that when I ask him to do X in school, he does it.

Ok, I just wanna laugh, because I'll just say as a parent (and others with more kids and more years going through the teen things can tell you), the absolute "jump because I say jump" is probably over. That was like age 2. From now on, you're in squishy territory, because they're turning into thinking adults. He has outgrown the "obey just because" stage and is being more rhetorical, thinking through things. My dd is now over 18, and even that middle stage has changed so that now it's do what you want and live with the consequences. 

So just looking at it developmentally, I think maybe recallibrate or take a deep breath? Did he have a growth spurt? I would expect a 10+ yo dc to challenge and think, and I would expect a more collaborative relationship at this point.

17 minutes ago, displace said:

You have to ... do math problems a certain way.

That's an interesting thought process. You may need two batches of cookies, maybe three, lol. :biggrin: Like seriously, let's talk cookies here because I haven't made any. Of course I'm TRYING to be good and NOT eat a bunch of junk. I haven't had pneumonia or bronchitis yet this winter, and I'd like to keep it that way! By this time last year I was already through my first round, oy.

Anyways, I think with some distance you'll remember things you already know, like that there's an algorithm we're used to but that there are more algorithms. There are ways that are *inefficient*, and I'm with you that it's really, really frustrating to poke around with a dc who is being really stinking inefficient. I get that. My dd was so ADHD she was just the inefficiency QUEEN. If there was a long way to get to the same place, she did it! And my ds tries and gets STUCK on some inefficient path.

There are ways to work on that, sigh. The EF stuff is going to make them rigid and inefficient, so you want to read about mindset and flexibility concepts and go ok, show me another way, that way didn't seem very efficient, show me another way... That's what I do with my ds. I put up a scenario and he shows his idea on how to solve it, which I write out on the whiteboard, and we count all the steps. Then I show another way to solve it and we count those steps. And sometimes we go for a 3rd way! I'm working on mindset. I'm not going to win if I try to go into a war with his rigidity, so I'm modeling flexibility and the place I want him to get to mentally. Eventually, eventually he sees it's faster to do it a certain way, but that's an inference, down the road.

I scribe. It sounds like typing is very important to you. Is he doing algebra 1 or 2 or precalculus? I think by then it would be nice for them to be able to write some/most of their work in some way. Honestly though, we've had people scribe even longer. Have you tried typing math problems out with that app? It sounds so tedious, I think I'd lose my mind. I'm not sure I'd expect him to do something I wouldn't be willing to do myself. I wouldn't expect him to do something I haven't load-tested myself so I could know what the strain/drain is from doing the task. So buy a 2nd ipad, put the app on yours as well, and you BOTH do the math. Do it parallel, and you try to show another way to solve it. Almost anything has more ways it could have been done. (arrays, short division, with exploding dots, with rods or an abacus, etc.)

Another strategy, and you already know this, is to decrease the number of problems any time you're at max instructional level. So I do things with ds that are really hard and at his instructional level. Right now we're diagramming complex sentences together from his reading (which BLOWS HIS MIND) and we're doing multi-digit subtraction. So for the subtraction, we literally only are going to do *3* just three. I scribe, but if you want them typed in, same gig. When your demands are really high, you decrease the reps. 

I'll keep reading what you wrote. I think though you know all this stuff and that it's easy to get sucked in and forget.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, displace said:

 I ask him to sound out the first syllable ONLY, then he just starts guessing words without even sounding out the first syllable (which he’s saying incorrectly), then finally after multiple tries and me repeating instructions 5 times, we move on to second syllable and it’s a repeat random guessing of words.  Or spelling: spell syllable X and he randomly spells out the whole word multiple times incorrectly.

He sounds very impulsive and slightly bored. It's a challenging dynamic, because you want to stop his errors by increasing your control. If *you* are controlling, then is *he* using his self-control? And if his self-control is not there, is that some impulsivity that needs meds or something that would respond to intervention like metronome work? Metronome work via music therapy (what my ds is doing) is evidence-based for behavior, and I think it's literally because it's tapping into that EF and impulsivity piece. 

I know impulsivity is hard for my ds. Like it's REALLY hard. He used to not even be able to do a single clap but would just HYPER-CLAP, and you're like oh my oh my how do I get that tamped down? I can tell you the music therapy my ds does is actually really hard work! He comes out TIRED from it, lol. And they're doing a lot of just together, working on rhythm and keeping time and moving to time (drums, tapping, etc.). For him he needed that broader starting point. He wasn't even CLOSE to ready for a targeted metronome approach like IM, lol.

So since I know my ds is clinically impulsive, then I know that any time I'm doing something that requires him to inhibit (restrain his impulsivity, inhibition, it's something they measure, might be the wrong term but the right idea), I know that I'm making a BIG DEMAND just in that very step. So to make the big demand to restrain his impulsivity during the task AND work on an area of disability (phonological processing, math, whatever) is a double demand. So in something like that, I'm gonna raise my supports SUPER HIGH, really crazy high, and I'm gonna drop my reps down so low they're like 1 or 1/2. Can you get a 1/2 rep? Absolutely, find a way. (You read half the word, I read the other half! It can be done! Take turns doing the steps in the math problem, etc.)

Like right now I have my ds doing cross-touches with his fingers, and he is crazy, crazy impulsive with it. I'm constantly like ok, back up, find another way. My goal is 1 perfect rep, because that will eventually lead to more reps.

So on the word, you may need to bust out your index card and cover up till he's ready for the next part. He may need to rediscover what it's like to hold back that impulsivity. He may need to do some sensory to get his body calm. Like sometimes I'll break things up with some input for my ds, like do the first step, clap, do the 2nd step, clap. And sometimes I bring out really big motivators to get us over that hump, like those COOKIES. Told you cookies would solve everything. Like I might say wow I made this dough and I want us to get to scoop and bake them, but I need 3 of these words read with the syllables without rushing through. Boom, now super motivation. :biggrin:  

And then we get back to the point of natural consequences, not being too controlling but more just letting him see that his actions aren't getting him toward what he wanted. (It's fine if you want to rush and read it other ways, but I only have 5 minutes and then I have to move on and these won't be done and you won't get to bake the cookies.) I find with my ds that I can't let his actions have power over me. It's easy for me to let the consequences of his actions affect ME, and I have to flip that so they affect HIM. I get really upset if ds is dawdling, etc. and it's keeping from me from getting my break, my stuff done, whatever. I have to stop, take a deep breath, and go ok how can I shift this so the consequences affect him but not me? Then I'm not so angry.

And consequences don't have to be perjorative. If I use really negative consequences, my ds just shuts down. I try to set it up so his compliance helps him gain access to what he wants or helps him get privileges and that when he isn't complying he isn't getting access to those privileges. It's pure behavioralism, but my ds understands it. It would be nice if he gave a rip about esoteric stuff (the future, employers, following the law, etc.) but he doesn't. You have to meet your dc's mind where he is, with what motivates him and with what he understands. 

My ds' compliance improves with interaction and relationship, when I do things with him and make small demands that he complies with to keep the interaction going. I try to make myself the highest value, most awesome thing in his life. Complying with me gets you access to everything awesome. So I really wasn't blowing you off with the making cookies. Make cookies, become high value, make demands. (Hey, while these bake, let's go do 2 of those math problems...) 

But I would make sure you're being as flexible and realistic and aware of the level of challenge/demand as you can be. It may be that the level of demand (typing plus this plus that) is overwhelming him. If he's an otherwise normally compliant dc, I would be looking at that. Even with my ds, who always needs support to continue complying, reality is he wants to do well and will do the task when he can. Or as Steve Green puts it, if they could they would. My ds is not exactly an easy dc to work with, but when he CAN he usually will and when the task has a component overwhelming him and he can't solve it, he just turns into a donkey. And then all the emphasis on compliance won't help because reality is he has a problem he can't solve. (the typing feels too hard, it's hard to stay calm for that many steps, whatever)

Edited by PeterPan
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it more that he is stubborn in wanting to try an "easier" way first, or is it more that it is hard for him to re-direct his attention?  I see both of these.  

For being stubborn about wanting to try an easier way first, I have a hard time dealing with this.  My older son can be like this for math.  I help him with homework sometimes.  I don't much anymore, because he will be rude to me and not want to listen to me.  I got to a point where if he would not just listen and work as directed, if he wanted me to help him, I would get up for 15 minutes.  He would want help so as not to end up losing his video games over his school grades.  I don't think I have helped him at all this school year (he is in 8th grade).  He needed a lot of help when he was younger, a lot a lot a lot of help.  We ended up having some ownership/responsibility issues.  He thought I was responsible for his schoolwork and learning.  But he was also getting more capable with his schoolwork and fortunately his capability was better when he was being more difficult this way.  

I think there are some "whys" in there.  We have needed to talk a lot about whys.  My son has also been disrespectful to teachers.  This year is going a lot better that way!  Thank goodness!  

But I see some "theory of mind" issues with him where he doesn't understand the effect his behavior has, and he doesn't understand why he needs to act in certain ways for the benefit of other people around him.  My joke is that there are those things that "good students know," and he doesn't know any of them.  There was some kind of book out about "What Good Students Know" when I was younger that I thought was so stupid, because I thought it was all so obvious, lol.  

When he was younger he would need help to get out of those "I'm working myself up" moments.  When he was younger I think that was needed and appropriate.  When he was younger also, I would have provided more help to get started (even with each step), and I might not have done the whole "type the problem" step, but I might have really, really guided him to beginning the typing and possibly got him started like "type this first" or started typing it myself first and then have him finish it.  

So that is math with my older son sometimes.  

Then reading with my younger son.  I have that same kind of situation with him sometimes (thank goodness it is less now, but I also have him in easier books where he can sound out most of the words, he does not do well with sounding out 3-syllable words, but we aren't working on it right now).  Okay -- he has a hard time to re-direct his attention.  It is just hard for him to do.  I "tend" to say I would try to work on the words he misses, separated out.  Can you skim and know there are some words you can pre-teach, or work on sounding out ahead of time?  My son will do better if it is "decoding time."  I think if your purpose with reading is to read for content or fluency, it's okay to be a little quicker to give words.  I will also try giving the prompt of just slowly starting to sound out and expect to be joined (which hopefully it happens).  Or I might prompt all the way back to "what is this sound, what is this sound, what is this sound."  I do that even though -- that should be known!  And it is known, he just doesn't always do it.  I feel like when he goes along and knows most of the words, it's hard for him to come to a word he needs to sound out and get back into "sounding out" mode.  I am trying to chill out about this though because I DO see him beginning to self-correct and go back and sound out words on his own.  This is a really hard balance for me, because on one hand, I want accurate decoding.  But on the other hand, it is good to have opportunities to self-correct and re-read.  This is a little bit new or developing with my younger son right now, and I'm trying to give him opportunities to self-correct instead of stopping him at the moment.  

Just some ideas, though.  Good luck.  I hope things will go smoother.    

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a couple more thoughts.

One, does he do any independent work?  Any easier review?  I used to be really skeptical of this as a waste of time, but honestly I have seen some valuable growth from having some independent work.  It can help to take out that whole "waaa mom" dynamic (or lessen it).  It can help to let some things be easier and get maybe a little better attitude of expecting to be able to figure things out.  It also does give a child a chance to be in charge of how they are going to try to solve a problem.  

Two, I feel like there is some balance between two ideas..... one is "praise the positive, ignore the negative."  This is an idea about shaping behavior by paying attention to positive behavior and ignoring negative behavior.  Then there is a second idea, that is more about explicitly pointing things out.  I think it sounds like you are doing good on explicitness, but maybe it's a time to look at going back to "praise the positive, ignore the negative" a little bit.  Will he run out of steam if you don't pay attention to it?  Maybe he will, maybe he won't.  But it's okay not to always respond to him or think it's your problem, if that is how you feel.  I will often feel that way and have to talk myself out of it.  The thing on this also is, it is really based on kids having all the skills and tools they need..... so if that's not the case, it's just not.  But this is another reason why sometimes it can be good to go down in level for some independent work. 

I'm not saying to do "all" independent work, but if everything is done with you sitting by him and managing his moods (and I could be reading so much into things here) then it can be a good step.  

It can be really hard to develop independent work skills, too, and it is okay if it starts very short and easy.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think in general though it is really hard to know if it is a situation where it is better to detach or to manage.  

It just depends.  For what you are saying about math, I can see it going either way.  Maybe it can be better to detach, let him spin his wheels a bit, and then just patiently redirect him. 

Or I can see it better to manage him more, try to prompt him in the first place so he doesn't go off track and start to get frustrated.  

I think sometimes it can be helpful to think "okay, if I've gone a long way with managing, maybe I should detach more.... if I've been detaching because I want him to just figure it out, maybe I do need to provide some more support and management."  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right there with you! The impulsivity is so frustrating. It's hardest for me to deal with this in math, because my student's thinking gets so twisted and removed from what we were actually trying to do that it's super hard to get back to the task at hand. Sometimes an alternative/longer path through a problem gets a kid there with the right answer, but sometimes it just gets them hopelessly lost in the forest, ya know?

Since he's refusing to even type the problem without starting to solve, could you just type the problem out for him? If he protests, you can remind him that he won't do it for himself, so you have to take over. Would that help with the frenzy of solving/getting mixed up?

For my student, it is very hard for him to wait for even a few seconds before doing *something.* Writing something, saying something, grabbing something... it's like he has to be doing something so immediately that his brain doesn't have time to even think about a math problem before things have already gone haywire. It's very frustrating.

I don't have any wise thoughts other than to perhaps break the task up into teeny tiny chunks, get compliant with that for even a single problem, and then move on to 2 problems... 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With word problems, I have to cover up sentences and only let him see one sentence at a time. Not sure how that would work for algebra problems, though.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I totally agree about natural consequences.  

For my older son when he was younger, I felt very comfortable having natural consequences along the lines of "well, you didn't make a good effort on this, now we aren't able to have this privilege."  Usually with a way to re-earn if he would then show a good effort.  

For my younger son, I am more likely to have an idea of some things I want him to do, and some things he wants to do.  Some of the things he wants to do, aren't going to happen, if some things that I want to happen haven't happened yet.  It is very "first, then."  "First, then" is a really powerful strategy for him.  It makes sense to him, it is very straightforward and clear to him.  

Something I really think -- as kids get older, all of a sudden, something maybe more gentle or more hand-holding that was just right when they were younger, all of a sudden isn't working anymore, and it can be really hard to recalibrate.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Mainer said:

For my student, it is very hard for him to wait for even a few seconds before doing *something.* Writing something, saying something, grabbing something... it's like he has to be doing something so immediately that his brain doesn't have time to even think about a math problem before things have already gone haywire. It's very frustrating.

 

This is where I think pre-emptively helping so kids don't go off track can help!  I have a thing where I take a deep breath and ask them to breathe with me.  There is a tendency that our emotions/affect will match the people we are around, so if we can be very calm and breathe slowly, it can help them.  But the natural tendency is that if they are moving faster, we are going to move faster too in response to them.  

I also don't know if you have heard of.... I can't think of the name, but there is a technique where you try to block this by giving random commands, it looks like starting to play Simon Says.  It's a behavioral technique.  Sometimes it can help kids to slow down, because they ARE doing something, but they don't have to think about what they are doing.  It can be a good transitional thing to do, to try to go from random/wild to getting a little calmer.  It is also a fun way of following instructions, sometimes, and can help build a habit of listening and following instructions.  It can also be fun and a chance for the child to be successful.  If the child isn't *always* like that but then it comes out with math, they could be a little anxious too, and then it can help to have a good start.  

Just some ideas.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand the frustration. I found this kind of thing maddening when we were homeschooling (all four of my kids struggle with EF and/or impulsivity and/or difficulty following directions, some of them to a severe extent).

I responded by controlling the situation more and micromanaging more, and it really didn't work out well for anyone. Note -- there is a reason I don't homeschool any more!

Task initiation, sticking with a task, and task completion are all aspects of executive function and can be hard for some people. In particular, task initiation can be hard when the overall task seems overwhelming or too big. There is tendency to want to avoid the task (I get this way; I freeze), or rush to get it over with (DD13 is this way), or to skip over steps.

I think most of the time, the answer for EF issues is more scaffolding. So, it's not the answer you are going to want to hear, but I would consider not making him type the math problems. Because that adds to the load of what needs to happen to accomplish the problem, and the load might be too burdensome for him to feel he can tackle it.

I know you said he still skips through the problems if they are typed out for him. So you will still have to deal with the issue. But by removing one difficult element, it allows him to use his EF ability on thinking about the math, instead of thinking about typing the math.

Really, 10 year olds are not having to type or even write out math problems most of the time. So the expectation for performance is higher than what one would expect from a same-age typical peer without any EF or learning issues. Something to ponder.

 

And I agree about using an index card to cover up all but the syllable being sounded out. It's the only way I was able to get DD with dyslexia to stop guessing.

DD13 is my kid who rushes, skips, and guesses the most. She has a super high processing speed, which is a great gift but also makes it hard for her to slow down and focus on the details, when the details are in her areas of disability (dyslexia and math calculation).

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, I'm sure you have very good reasons for wanting him to type his math problems. Maybe it is part of the math program you are using. Maybe you have worked really hard for a long time on getting those typing skills down, and you know that he is capable of doing it, and you don't want him to stop using the skill. Maybe you don't have the time to type them yourself, because you are stretched thin.

Those -- or your own list -- are really valid reasons. I want to acknowledge that I don't think you are in the wrong at all for setting the expectation.

Yet, if there is a struggle, it may be necessary to rethink even good ideas.

I hate doing that, myself. I remember hurling a book across the room once (don't be like me! not recommending this!) out of frustration, because DD (dyslexic) was having trouble reading it. Not because I was frustrated with DD or with the book, but because I realized what I was trying to do was not working, and I was going to have to re-plan everything that I had expected to do that fall for literature, because my plans were not panning out.

It was a lovely book, by the way. A Frog and Toad collection, and I had a fabulous curriculum to use with it. I had planned out a really fun literature class for my three youngest to do together. I don't remember what I did now, but I figured out how to make it work, in the end. I think I had the boys do most of the reading aloud, and DD tagged along for the ride.

Anyway, I find it hard to rejigger things when they are not working, so I wanted to let you know I feel empathetic toward you, even as I'm saying, "maybe change your expectations."

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lecka said:

I also don't know if you have heard of.... I can't think of the name, but there is a technique where you try to block this by giving random commands, it looks like starting to play Simon Says.  It's a behavioral technique.  Sometimes it can help kids to slow down, because they ARE doing something, but they don't have to think about what they are doing.  It can be a good transitional thing to do, to try to go from random/wild to getting a little calmer.  It is also a fun way of following instructions, sometimes, and can help build a habit of listening and following instructions.  It can also be fun and a chance for the child to be successful.  If the child isn't *always* like that but then it comes out with math, they could be a little anxious too, and then it can help to have a good start.  

I love that idea!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am sorry for your struggles. What math are you doing?  I’m curious.

When DS was 5th grade, I limited math to 20 minutes.  Modmath never worked for us because there was no way to easily input problem sets.  

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm looking at this mod math and I'm surprised at this point you can't just place your cursor and use dictation. You could/enter the line or whatever and then use the microphone/dictation to enter the part under the denominator, etc. It definitely looks cumbersome if you don't have some alternate entry like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dysgraphia sucks!

 If your son is unable to properly enter the math problems into the app from the start, I’m not surprised he is half-heartedly attempting the math.  Maybe take turns entering problems (you enter two problems and he enter one) or use a whiteboard.  I write out my DD’s math problems until she masters the algorithm/method.  Once I’m convinced she can manage on her own, I step away and periodically check her work. My DS, who was identified 2e with dyslexia/reading/handwriting SLDs, used a white board and 1/2” grid paper for years.

Time of day mattered for us when approaching especially difficult subjects.  I’m shot by afternoon, so math is our first subject of the day.  My kids like hot tea and graham crackers, so I often busted up subjects with a tea break.  I use a timer to ensure we get back to our tasks.  We use a cube timer...https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00889AVDG/ref=sxr_rr_xsim_1_a_it?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=9ddc66f6-9fc0-49ff-b2fa-06a39d9859e6&pd_rd_wg=5GShf&pf_rd_r=57E8DNRT3DMQN3Z93NTH&pf_rd_s=desktop-rhs-carousels&pf_rd_t=301&pd_rd_i=B00889AVDG&pd_rd_w=xxx9R&pf_rd_i=cube%2Btimer&pd_rd_r=8870ac64-f3da-4628-a883-32c328de7454&ie=UTF8&qid=1543670710&sr=1&th=1

If handwriting on a whiteboard is too much, maybe use math mats with number tiles.  You could print those up and laminate them for easy reuse.  If I knew what math you were working on, we could examine solutions.  Think in therapeutic terms.

My son didn’t type fully until the 7th grade.  Transitioning to full typing and tech was a process for us.  DS is at university now and told me that he is tired of the hassle of typing everything. He’s 19 and knows full well he needs to type to survive in an academic setting.  

About 2 years ago, DS was working with a CBT for EF issues.  I was really frustrated with my son, and the CBT stopped and reminded me that my DS does not process information in the same way that I do.  I tend to forget that because son is very intelligent.  Kids also know when their parents are frustrated, and they want to please us.  

I’m a firm believer in using qualified OG tutors where necessary to supplement and support teaching at home.

 

Edited by Heathermomster
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm re-reading this and realizing your son is only 10. If I were in your shoes, I would scaffold a task (say, math problem) until he can do it without a fuss/tears. That might mean you're doing 90%. Then, gradually back off the scaffolding.

Like Heathermomster said, even if typing might be the long-term solution, it's not easy for a 10 year old to type, particularly if there are other executive functioning or ADHD issues happening. Scribing can help with the impulsivity, because YOU are writing, so you control the speed. At least in theory 🙂 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a compromise process with my dd in the middle grades because she needed to let her mind go solve the problem quickly but she also couldn't necessarily hold everything and needed to have it written by the end. I would be her scratch board, and she would do things in her head and call them out for me to write. So anything she needed to hold, I would write. And then, when she was doing that, THEN we went back and did the full problem written.

It's actually considered a pretty normal thing for a gifted kid to want to do an over-amount of the math that should be written in their head. It's a known gig and is because they probably could. However there's also fatigue from that and the dropping of digits (and resulting errors) from working memory deficits, etc. So I was giving her leash there to be impulsive, not hit walls and have errors simply because of EF, and then let her feel good then about doing it the other way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, also the neuropsych suggested that for math problems, DD13 be given a card that showed the steps for each kind of problem, so that she could execute the math without having to ALSO remember the steps. Because remembering while executing is too heavy a load on the working memory. Even if the student has learned the steps. "Use your tools," is a common phrase to hear from teachers at DD's dyslexia school. They provide a LOT of memory tools. And a calculator. Is he using a calculator?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My son has a difficult time remembering the steps and uses behavior to mask that. 

I think improving working memory is important( you could use Working memory games or Cogmed. We found an affordable provider for that so I can report back next fall as that will be our summer program) but I would strongly recomend breaking this up into steps and sequencing in. Find where the gap is. 

I really like Hearbuilder auditory memory, its affordable and assesible to a 10 year old. That is the age my son did it. If he struggles with that then I would do Fast Forword and then come back to Hearbuilder. Improving Auditory memory helps all working memory because the brain is so connected. The only thing is it isn't a quick fix. It is a daily practace and takes months for that skill to improve. My son has been working on it the entire last year and slowly over time has shown huge improvement. 

 

I also agree with all of the suggestions above. Also breaking the time down that he works on steps and circling back with frequent review is better for example 15 minutes of math in the morning to introduce the topic, then go on to something good he can do . Then after lunch do 15 more minutes have him work a few problems. Then right before have him work one problem. use the notecard crib sheet for steps to help him remember.  Always incorporate 15 minutes of review work that is how I would break up an hour of math is to chunk it throughout the day. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

SUBSCRIBE TO OUR NEWSLETTER & RECEIVE A COUPON FOR
10% OFF
We respect your privacy.You’ll hear about new products, special discounts & sales, and homeschooling tips. *Coupon only valid for first-time registrants. Coupon cannot be combined with any other offer. Entering your email address makes you eligible to receive future promotional emails.
0 Shares
Share
Tweet
Pin
×