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Michelle Conde

Male Teacher Punished for Refusing to Watch

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Well, the concerns about where the student should change, and teachers 'observing' are valid....

All this talk about showering is most likely not that relevant. The middle schoolers are NOT showering. They won't even be given enough time to shower if they wanted to. And this in Florida (lol) and it's likely that most of the boys aren't changing clothes anyways. Athletic shorts worn year round.

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I think locker rooms should be supervised. Let's say you have 30 other students in a locker room and one teacher. If something untoward was going to happen, odds are that it would be from one of the other students. And if one student starts, it's very possible that others will join in. Any decent adult is not going to gawk at a bunch of sweaty, stinky kids in a locker room. If the teacher isn't decent, then that moves into a whole other area of conversation that involves screening and reporting procedures and believing students if they complain, not victim blaming, etc.

What I don't understand is this gag order. So this "obvious girl" is changing with the boys... but the teacher is going to out him by simply saying something???

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12 hours ago, CaliforniaDreamin said:

Well I am always super cautious about adults and children but then you have story after story like this:

https://abc11.com/news/va-hs-football-players-facing-sodomy-hazing-charges/1085620/

Which makes me feel like locker rooms DO need adult supervision.  I guess locker rooms need some kind of redesign with lockable doors to shower/change in with a common area for things like putting on gear/shoes/etc....Adult could stay in common area and supervise with a sight line to the showers to make sure only one kid per stall.  2 adults would be the best scenario to protect both youth and adults.  This should work for transgender students as well. Expensive but I think this is the way we are headed. I would not want my son in a locker room at all right now, but I would be much more concerned with a possible culture of hazing by straight males than I would be about a tween or teen transgender student personally.

 

 

I had the no privacy communal shower and locker room situation.  The female gym teacher was a bully and so were a number of the students in my gym class.  I lied about having a period a lot in order not to take the shower.  I also would sneak off to toilets too.   There is often more going on in gym locker rooms than just transgender issues.  

Overall though, I do not think people with opposite sexed bodies should be involuntarily changing together.  And then you also get the issue of all sorts of religions who frown upon that kind of familiarization and what about their rights?  Does an Orthodox Jewish boy have to be in the co-ed changing area or the Moslem or the Hindu or the Christian who also follows those kinds of proscriptions?  And you bring up other points too- as in some of the hazing and harassment issues also involved teachers or coaches.  Is the transgendered person with the female body even safe in a locker roomful of young males?

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As far as informing the other kids, I think it can be done in a generic way, e.g., this is a diverse school in all ways, including LGBT, you don't need to know who but you need to know how to respect everyone, give people their privacy and dignity, and if you violate these it will be treated as __ subject to section __ of the discipline code.  If you have any questions about different groups and how to respect them, you can ask ___ or here are some resources.

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1 hour ago, BarbecueMom said:

Seriously.  I was in middle school in the mid 90s and there was no showering (shower stalls sometimes used for changing) and no adult supervision.  The school decided it was better for classmates to sexually abuse each other than risk an teacher staring too long at a kid in front of 40 other kids and word getting out.

Because obviously 10-12 year olds can’t assault anyone because they’re just kids.... *eyeroll*

 

I’m not disputing that unsupervised kids can and do do appalling things.  I’m just surprised supervision of locker room time is going on at all.  

My sons school doesn’t offer gym.  You have to get your PE credits in your own time.  I can’t say I have a problem with that.  That’s how it was at the second high school I attended as well.  

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Schools should definitely have an option to do phys ed / activity outside of school.

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Kids don't get fully naked in a big room anymore. They just don't. There has been a dramatic shift in locker room culture in the US in terms of nudity. When today's parents were in high school, yeah, that was a thing that happened. With everything I've read about this shift and observed in pool locker rooms in the last decade, I'd be FLOORED if middle schoolers stripped beyond underwear in the locker room and they might not even do that. A lot of schools around here don't even have kids change into gym clothes anymore. They just let them be smelly rather than deal with locker room "issues."

I thought the local article was pretty balanced. No one lost their job. The schools have a policy of trying to work with individuals. These are the guidelines, not hard fast rules for every situation.

I'm beyond sick of these threads in the last month. They follow a pattern. Someone posts the "shocking" "how dare trans people demand this or that" thing they found - in this case on an extremely slanted site and then everyone chimes in with their shock and dismay about the existence of trans people needing basic rights.

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9 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

It is such a shame when someone enters a thread with the sole purpose of mocking and ridiculing the OP and the other participants in the thread and telling them what they should and should not be posting, rather than actually joining the conversation and treating others with respect. It does nothing but derail the thread by making people angry, although I suspect that was his intent when he started posting in this thread.

Frankly, I think Michelle has been very gracious to everyone who posted here, yet she has now been called both a troll and a bigot. I think that’s terrible, and entirely uncalled-for.

 

I have no idea why Bill hasn't been banned for being an out and out troll.  

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19 minutes ago, SKL said:

Schools should definitely have an option to do phys ed / activity outside of school.

Oh, I agree.  At our local high school, only kids playing certain varsity sports get an exemption from gym and only during that sport's season.  But there are lots of elite club athletes who train year-round, doing much more physical activity than the gym classes, but they can't get an exemption.  That was part of the reason why we didn't have dd enrolled full time.  She didn't have time to take gym when she was training 15 hours a week for her sport (not including the commute.)  It has been an issue that parents are bringing up. 

That said, this school's PE program is much more fitness oriented than sports oriented.  There is at least one unit each year that focuses on non-sports fitness - doing cardio using heart rate monitors, strength training etc.  I think that juniors and seniors get to choose many of their PE units 

 

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8 hours ago, Frances said:

In talking to friends, neighbors, and relatives this definitely seems to be the norm now. Most students never use the school showers and many said they even go into bathroom stalls to change in private. This is completely different from when I went to school. We were required to shower after middle school PE and there was a monitor present and most chose to shower after high school sports and PE, despite there being only open group showers and changing areas. 

 

I've noticed this a lot in pool changing rooms and such as well. Generally when I was a kid, people changed openly, and while teen girls were often shy adults would walk around in the buff.  Now everyone is in a stall or hiding.  I don't know if it's similar for men.

I am not convinced this is a good thing.  It seems the only common exposure we get now to other women's bodies are in advertising and tv, and those don't tend to give a normal impression of our body.

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9 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

It is such a shame when someone enters a thread with the sole purpose of mocking and ridiculing the OP and the other participants in the thread and telling them what they should and should not be posting, rather than actually joining the conversation and treating others with respect. It does nothing but derail the thread by making people angry, although I suspect that was his intent when he started posting in this thread.

Frankly, I think Michelle has been very gracious to everyone who posted here, yet she has now been called both a troll and a bigot. I think that’s terrible, and entirely uncalled-for.

Which sadly illustrates some of the issues people were highlighting in the earlier threads about speech. If people cannot reasonably and in good faith discuss current events without being slammed--especially when they attempt to provide more than once source and invite correction on the pertinent facts of the matter--should anyone be surprised when people (general people) double down and stop caring about being open-minded or wanting to learn about the other side on controversial issues? God help us.

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We have some schools in our wider area with swimming pools and where swimming can be a pe option such that full change to nakedness and showers is definitely a part of locker room scene. 

Even short of that we have run into changing issues for example with regard to ice skating when Ds has been the sole boy. (Born boy, identifying as male). In general he has been used to wearing things where he does not need to change pants and has changed costume shirts in public view.  Thus Allowing the one dressing room to be all girls without emotional distress. There is one child born girl, girl body, who self identifies as male who uses male restroom, (but not the urinals), and who I think changes with the girls in the dressing room.  

I think the partial enclosure of toilet and shower stalls in public changing rooms is experienced by many of us as a safety matter. It is easier to hide in a stall with partitions all the way down. Without that it takes standing on the toilet or something like that. It is also easier to get help in a non fully enclosed stall. 

And I think a lot of programs like school pe cannot provide individual change rooms for every student for space and cost reasons. But perhaps there could be 3 options — male, female, non binary.   Or perhaps people could get used to more public nudity and changing in front of others wouldn’t be seen as a big deal anymore. 

The teacher, faced with two bad options seems to me to have chosen the right one. Had he supervised and then been accused of watching a girl changing he could have had sex crime accusations on his record. Really serious for a teacher. This way there are many places that are going to feel he did the right thing and it is likely to hurt him far less than the other option. 

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12 hours ago, Michelle Conde said:

 

 It definitely has a very strong conservative bias, but I am actually okay with that in a news source so long as they are open about it, don’t te bias, or have you found instances in the past where it engaged in incorrect reporting?ry to pass off their reporting as objective, or try to obscure facts.  Some years back I despaired of finding an unbiased news source, and instead settled for reading from a variety of sources from both sides that are open about their bias.  It seemed like the only way to get a somewhat balanced picture of what was going on in the world.  It’s really a fascinating study, comparing which stories each side highlights and which each tries to sweep under the rug, and how each can spin the same story with the exact same facts to provide a different conclusion.  But I have two different categories; those which need to be read with a grain of salt for bias, but whose facts are generally reliable, and those I have found to be dishonest, which I glance at very occasionally in order to get an idea of where people on either extreme are getting their perspectives from.

1

This  

I read a lot of news and even more, I skim headlines.  I have also found other non-traditional news sources too- like locally, there is Nextdoor neighbor and statewide, there is a email service I get that gives me more news and different news than I get through local news channels or through the paper.  Other sources are foreign press, bloggers and reporters who are independent and reporting on news that they are interested in, Reason (which is libertarian and reports on many things that are not in widespread media, etc.  Like an interesting news blog I ran into is some pilot guy who shares news about airlines.  That is how I found out about an Air France flight that had engine issues and ending up landing in upper Siberia where the passengers were taken off but had to be guarded by Russian police because they had no visas and they were there for 72 hours.

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15 hours ago, PeachyDoodle said:

 

So - just in case anyone is worried about this -The Tampa bay Times is considered a center-left paper with high marks for factual reporting.

My guess is they quite properly reported on this because it is local to them, and the Daily Wire picked it up because it fits their narrative.

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8 hours ago, StellaM said:

 

As a parent, I would disagree with the teachers refusal to change pronouns.

I understand and respect the position against compelled speech, but  I wouldn't want a teacher to make a student  feel uncomfortable. As a parent, I'd feel a workable compromise would be for the teacher to use the child's new name, and avoid she/her pronouns, using 'they' where needed. 

 

 

3

I haven't  had any lengthy interactions with transgendered people (in fact, I am not sure how I would know that my waiter, etc is transgendered) (just passed such people in the street ever since I was a child and didn't know if they were transexuals ((what they were called then if they had surgery)) or cross dressers or ? -- and no,Bill, I was never rude and stared or made comments or anything).  However, I know that I have clicked on some links where I am so confused as to who or what they are claiming to be - I think one was a person who had a beard and looked like a man but I think was wearing pink and lavender and this person was transgendered but I wasn't even sure whether they would want to be called she or he.  With my brain fog, I am trying to train myself to refer everyone by name or title.  

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9 hours ago, LucyStoner said:

Wait a second.  

Why would any teacher be expected to watch the school locker rooms?  

I don’t recall the gym teachers, male or female, ever coming in to the locker room unless it was before or after everyone was changed.  

This is what I was thinking. I'm pretty creeped out by the idea of adults watching kids change clothes.

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8 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

.  With my brain fog, I am trying to train myself to refer everyone by name or title.  

 

Same here.

And increasingly often to find ways not to use pronouns at all when possible. 

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8 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Bill, you are not the board police. 

Everyone else, don't feed the troll.

Bill, if you want to object to this post, take it up with Susan privately.

 

Yes Bill. I am the board police. Susan says so.

~Rosie the Moderator

 

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3 hours ago, Spy Car said:

Removed quote

 

Extremists websites are stuff like The Daily Stormer (and I only know that name because it was in my morning newspaper today and NOT because I have ever been at it) and whatever one is the Alex Jones one plus I am sure there are such sites on the far left that I have no knowledge about because the other side of extremes is not as well published.

No one has said anything disrespectul to transgendered individuals on this thread.  Many of us are talking about how we want to be respectful to everyone. Suggestions like talking to all students in a general discussion about treating everyone kindly including LGBTQ have been made. Others have suggested other solutions.  Discussions about how showers are or are not taken at schools.  

Edited by Rosie_0801
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The Daily Wire is an extremist website that fuels heat rather than light. They are not a credible source of "news."

Trans individuals are entitled to their full human rights.

Bill

Edited by Spy Car

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Bill, you made your point.  The Daily Wire is fake news in your opinion.  I wouldn't know, I don't read it.  But thanks for the heads up.

Having made your point enough times, please respect that as adults we can process input from a variety of sources, utilize our free speech rights, and have a grown-up discussion.  Your attempts to derail this process come off as extremism.

And yes, I believe Rosie is the board police.

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6 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

Trans individuals are entitled to their full human rights.

Yes, absolutely, of course.  But, as in all cases, their right to "swing their fist" ends at the "tip of someone else's nose."  In this situation, I think it is the school's job to ensure that one party's rights don't infringe on another's. 

That child is certainly entitled to the same treatment and use of school facilities as all his classmates.  But that right should not extend to putting the teacher in a legally and morally precarious position.  We all know what a shit storm it would be if the media got a hold of a story of a male teacher supervising a child with female genitalia in a locker room.  Even if the guy had a heart of gold and never had an impure thought, he could still lose his job and all future teaching prospects.  It could ruin his entire life.

It doesn't do society any good to treat these issues as simplistic and one sided.  There are not always easy answers; it can be hard to find solutions that are safe and respectful for everyone.  I think society moves forward not by being hit over the head with black and white maxims, but rather by discussing all the real life, grey situations and trying to improve them for everyone involved.

Wendy 

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12 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

It doesn't do society any good to treat these issues as simplistic and one sided.  There are not always easy answers; it can be hard to find solutions that are safe and respectful for everyone.  I think society moves forward not by being hit over the head with black and white maxims, but rather by discussing all the real life, grey situations and trying to improve them for everyone involved.

Wendy 

 

Well said. 

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Being asked to do your job doesn't infringe on your rights. Regardless, no one forced this teacher to supervise the locker room in the end. And he still has his job. And many of us are dubious that anyone gets fully naked in plain view in the locker room in the first place.

In general, the whole "you can't make me because religion/philosophy" argument is one that has severe limits. The state can make, say, a science teacher teach evolution. They can disallow a principal who believes that God has told them that "spare the rod and spoil the child" means they need to administer physical discipline. They can fire a teacher who forces children to say the pledge of allegiance or to pray. The same defense has been used in all those cases and it does not fly in a legal sense. Your right to express your beliefs in a job is not greater than a child's right to have certain basic protections in a government school that they're compelled to attend. That doesn't mean that government employees have no rights - they do. But when they conflict with the rights of the students who are compelled to be there (or parents must find and pay for an alternative, such as private school or homeschooling), then I don't buy that this is a simple, "well, we all have rights" situation.

 

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2 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-daily-wire/

As extreme as World Net Daily.

Bill

 

Center left bias, in the opposite direction of the other source.  You also might not they have a high rating for factual value.

Two sources with different biases, one who is known to accurately report facts, telling the same story.  Generally that would be considered pretty reasonable.  Back when I was collating news stories for the army, that would have bee considered good sourcing for a minor story.

Your troll pants are showing pretty clearly here.

 

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6 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-daily-wire/

As extreme as World Net Daily.

Bill

Oh. My. God. Are you actually serious here?

Read this very slowly until you comprehend it: There is another news source on this story.

Even extremist news sources pick up real stories if it serves their agenda and just because a story serves the agenda of an extremist news source, doesn't mean the story is somehow invalid or false. Am I typing slow enough for you??

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7 minutes ago, Mimm said:

Oh. My. God. Are you actually serious here?

Read this very slowly until you comprehend it: There is another news source on this story.

Even extremist news sources pick up real stories if it serves their agenda and just because a story serves the agenda of an extremist news source, doesn't mean the story is somehow invalid or false. Am I typing slow enough for you??

The other news story paints a very different picture and wasn't in the OP.

The Daily Wire version is inflammatory and aimed at undercutting the rights some of our society's most vulnerable people.

I fully comprehend what is going on here, believe me.

Bill

 

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4 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

I read a lot of news and even more, I skim headlines.  I have also found other non-traditional news sources too- like locally, there is Nextdoor neighbor and statewide, there is a email service I get that gives me more news and different news than I get through local news channels or through the paper.  Other sources are foreign press, bloggers and reporters who are independent and reporting on news that they are interested in, Reason (which is libertarian and reports on many things that are not in widespread media, etc.  Like an interesting news blog I ran into is some pilot guy who shares news about airlines.  That is how I found out about an Air France flight that had engine issues and ending up landing in upper Siberia where the passengers were taken off but had to be guarded by Russian police because they had no visas and they were there for 72 hours.

While the OP would probably like her thread to stop being derailed, I think yours would be a great first post in a separate thread on alternative news sources. Obviously certain stories are going to be of too little interest to the big news providers to be covered, and will be found in sources where the readership will have a more or less common outlook that will be reflected by the editorial outlook and by the framing as well as choice of the stories covered. To use your example, Reason presumably reported that story because it had interest to their libertarian readership ("fit their narrative" we say somewhat condescendingly today); it would be unsurprising if the story was itself framed to a libertarian perspective; yet a reader who found the story interesting wouldn't necessarily be a libertarian in philosophy. It's hard to see how you can have niche news sources with out-of-the-way or less-reported news without that source having a bias of some kind. But it would be crazy to dismiss the story as "fake news" (whatever that means these days) just because one disagrees with libertarianism: sure the source has that bias, and possibly shapes the story accordingly, but if no one other than libertarians cares, it may not be reported anywhere else at all.

<Goes back to reading her latest issue of The Remnant>

Edited by Violet Crown
double negative
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7 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Bill, you are not the board police. 

Everyone else, don't feed the troll.

Bill, if you want to object to this post, take it up with Susan privately.

 

Thank you, Rosie.

Apparently, though, Bill doesn’t care what you or the other moderators have to say. His lack of respect for forum rules is appalling.

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Entertaining thread!  The teacher did the right thing.  The teacher's union did the right thing.

I would definitely complain to the school board if my son were forced to change in a locker room with a girl.  I honestly think the only reason there are still male/female locker rooms is for team sports.

I wasn't forced to shower in middle and high school gym, but my husband was, starting in 6th grade.  He said it was because all boys stink and need multiple showers a day.  Some schools still force boys to shower, but I haven't heard of schools forcing girls to shower.

We often weren't supervised in the locker room, and I heard the WORST things in the locker room.  Intimate details of a certain group of girls having a rainbow party, etc. And after the locker room rapes of boys story that came out a few years back I would think ANY school would require supervision.

I personally like to balance news sources with different political views.  It seems like the only way to get the complete story and how to have a *clue* what someone is talking about if they only get their news from one particular extreme slant.

Edited by Katy
clarity
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4 hours ago, Farrar said:

Kids don't get fully naked in a big room anymore. They just don't. There has been a dramatic shift in locker room culture in the US in terms of nudity. When today's parents were in high school, yeah, that was a thing that happened. With everything I've read about this shift and observed in pool locker rooms in the last decade, I'd be FLOORED if middle schoolers stripped beyond underwear in the locker room and they might not even do that. A lot of schools around here don't even have kids change into gym clothes anymore. They just let them be smelly rather than deal with locker room "issues."

I thought the local article was pretty balanced. No one lost their job. The schools have a policy of trying to work with individuals. These are the guidelines, not hard fast rules for every situation.

I'm beyond sick of these threads in the last month. They follow a pattern. Someone posts the "shocking" "how dare trans people demand this or that" thing they found - in this case on an extremely slanted site and then everyone chimes in with their shock and dismay about the existence of trans people needing basic rights.

Another example of inflammatory rhetoric in my opinion. I don't think it makes anyone more likely to listen to your view point, and instead shuts down communication.

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1 hour ago, Violet Crown said:

While the OP would probably like her thread to stop being derailed, I think yours would be a great first post in a separate thread on alternative news sources. Obviously certain stories are going to be of too little interest to the big news providers to be covered, and will be found in sources where the readership will have a more or less common outlook that will be reflected by the editorial outlook and by the framing as well as choice of the stories covered. To use your example, Reason presumably reported that story because it had interest to their libertarian readership ("fit their narrative" we say somewhat condescendingly today); it would be unsurprising if the story was itself framed to a libertarian perspective; yet a reader who found the story interesting wouldn't necessarily be a libertarian in philosophy. It's hard to see how you can have niche news sources with out-of-the-way or less-reported news without that source having a bias of some kind. But it would be crazy to dismiss the story as "fake news" (whatever that means these days) just because one disagrees with libertarianism: sure the source has that bias, and possibly shapes the story accordingly, but if no one other than libertarians cares, it may not be reported anywhere else at all.

<Goes back to reading her latest issue of The Remnant>

 

I’ve heard so many claims of “fake news” fly from people on both sides, I’ve become pretty skeptical of such claims unless there is some example of the source giving incorrect information or leaving out relevant information, and not printing a retraction when informed of their error.  If writing a story with preconceived biases makes a news story “fake”, I don’t think I’ve ever read a “real” news story.  Just because I think a journalist is wrong in how they interpret and present a story doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

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1 minute ago, Michelle Conde said:

 

I’ve heard so many claims of “fake news” fly from people on both sides, I’ve become pretty skeptical of such claims unless there is some example of the source giving incorrect information or leaving out relevant information, and not printing a retraction when informed of their error.  If writing a story with preconceived biases makes a news story “fake”, I don’t think I’ve ever read a “real” news story.  Just because I think a journalist is wrong in how they interpret and present a story doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

Are you unaware The Daily Wire is a right-wing extremist website that is notorious for its dishonest reporting?

Bill

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Just now, Spy Car said:

Are you unaware The Daily Wire is a right-wing extremist website that is notorious for its dishonest reporting?

Bill

 

I am aware it is very right biased.  I am not aware of instances of dishonest reporting.  

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Just now, Michelle Conde said:

 

I am aware it is very right biased.  I am not aware of instances of dishonest reporting.  

I suggest you check it out. It really doesn't serve as a source for threads here IMO. Especially ones that threaten the rights of those who are among the most vulnerable. 

Bill

 

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8 minutes ago, Michelle Conde said:

 

I’ve heard so many claims of “fake news” fly from people on both sides, I’ve become pretty skeptical of such claims unless there is some example of the source giving incorrect information or leaving out relevant information, and not printing a retraction when informed of their error.  If writing a story with preconceived biases makes a news story “fake”, I don’t think I’ve ever read a “real” news story.  Just because I think a journalist is wrong in how they interpret and present a story doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

Except there are actual "fake" news sites that intentionally report false and misleading information.  They are not mainstream and neither is their target audience. 

There are also others (example: redstate.com) that are so obviously biased that there is no way to gather credible information from them without fact checking every part of a story. Those who support those sites are the ones pushing the narrative about "fake" news in the mainstream media, and blurring that line for consumers is intentional.

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Just now, ChocolateReignRemix said:

Except there are actual "fake" news sites that intentionally report false and misleading information.  They are not mainstream and neither is their target audience. 

There are also others (example: redstate.com) that are so obviously biased that there is no way to gather credible information from them without fact checking every part of a story. Those who support those sites are the ones pushing the narrative about "fake" news in the mainstream media, and blurring that line for consumers is intentional.

 

Correct. And The Daily Wire is among these websites that intentionally report false and misleading information. 

Bill

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Just now, ChocolateReignRemix said:

Except there are actual "fake" news sites that intentionally report false and misleading information.  They are not mainstream and neither is their target audience. 

There are also others (example: redstate.com) that are so obviously biased that there is no way to gather credible information from them without fact checking every part of a story. Those who support those sites are the ones pushing the narrative about "fake" news in the mainstream media, and blurring that line for consumers is intentional.

 

Oh, certainly, I don’t have a problem with people calling sources “fake news” if they have been shown to knowingly report false information, or leave out relevant information they have been made aware of.  

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14 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

I suggest you check it out. It really doesn't serve as a source for threads here IMO. Especially ones that threaten the rights of those who are among the most vulnerable. 

Bill

 

 

I am aware of an instance when the guy who runs it was gone and the person left in charge put some racist satire junk up, but when the editor who was gone heard about it he had it removed and issued an apology.  That’s all I’ve turned up.  Lots of people railing against the Daily Wire, but I can’t seem to find anything where it gives examples of incorrect information.  Do you have any suggestions for what stories to look for?

Edited by Michelle Conde
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12 minutes ago, Michelle Conde said:

 

I am aware it is very right biased.  I am not aware of instances of dishonest reporting.  

 

They have a long history of sharing stories that are taken out of context or have not been verified. They are not in any way a valid news source. 

An example:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/19851/year-zero-vigilante-protesters-start-dig-remains-john-nolte

Another:

https://archive.is/G4u0d

In both cases they take something that is true and take it out of context to generate reactions from its readers.  In the first they used a 2 year old story and exaggerated what actually happened, and in the second they leave out some important facts (namely that Harvard still had a main graduation and the "black graduation" was a separate event organized by individuals).  What they do goes well beyond a slant or bias in reporting.

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3 minutes ago, Michelle Conde said:

 

I am aware of an instance when the guy who runs it was gone and the person left in charge put some racist satire junk up, but when the editor who was gone heard about it he had it removed and issued an apology, but that’s all I’ve turned up.  Lots of people railing against the Daily Wire, but I can’t seem to find anything where it gives examples of incorrect information.  Do you have any suggestions for what stories to look for?

Try Snopes, where they debunked a story that claimed Muhammad is the most popular name in the Netherlands:

DailyWire.com has a tendency to share stories that are taken out of context or not verified. For example, in the days after a violent white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia in August 2017, the site helped spread a false rumor that “leftists” were digging up Confederate graves. In March of that year, the site spread a false claim that Democratic lawmakers refused to stand for a fallen Navy SEAL’s widow. In May 2017, the site falsely reported that Harvard University was holding segregated commencement ceremonies. The site was embroiled in another racial controversy after posting a video disparaging Native Americans in October 2017. After removing the video, Shapiro responded by apologizing, but called the video satire.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/is-mohammed-popular-name-netherlands/

The nature of The Daily Wire is hardly a secret. I'm sure you can find plenty of corroborating information on the false nature of their "reporting."

Bill

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4 minutes ago, Michelle Conde said:

 

I am aware of an instance when the guy who runs it was gone and the person left in charge put some racist satire junk up, but when the editor who was gone heard about it he had it removed and issued an apology, but that’s all I’ve turned up.  Lots of people railing against the Daily Wire, but I can’t seem to find anything where it gives examples of incorrect information.  Do you have any suggestions for what stories to look for?

If you google "false news daily wire" and click on the Snopes Archive, you can see a list of all the stories where they have either fabricated whole details, or aggregated false details from other unreliable online sources without fact-checking, thereby amplifying a false story for OTHER networks, bloggers, or online for-profit news sources to pick up. 

 

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2 minutes ago, SanDiegoMom in VA said:

If you google "false news daily wire" and click on the Snopes Archive, you can see a list of all the stories where they have either fabricated whole details, or aggregated false details from other unreliable online sources without fact-checking, thereby amplifying a false story for OTHER networks, bloggers, or online for-profit news sources to pick up. 

 

Thanks, SanDiegoMom!  I will definitely look into this, but it will take me a while to do so and respond, as I have somewhere to be this afternoon.

Edited by Michelle Conde
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6 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

Try Snopes, where they debunked a story that claimed Muhammad is the most popular name in the Netherlands:

DailyWire.com has a tendency to share stories that are taken out of context or not verified. For example, in the days after a violent white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia in August 2017, the site helped spread a false rumor that “leftists” were digging up Confederate graves. In March of that year, the site spread a false claim that Democratic lawmakers refused to stand for a fallen Navy SEAL’s widow. In May 2017, the site falsely reported that Harvard University was holding segregated commencement ceremonies. The site was embroiled in another racial controversy after posting a video disparaging Native Americans in October 2017. After removing the video, Shapiro responded by apologizing, but called the video satire.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/is-mohammed-popular-name-netherlands/

The nature of The Daily Wire is hardly a secret. I'm sure you can find plenty of corroborating information on the false nature of their "reporting."

Bill

 

Thanks, Bill, I will look into it.

Edited by Michelle Conde

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7 minutes ago, Michelle Conde said:

 

Thanks, Bill, I will definitely look into it.

You got it.

If you find the time I'd look at the way the local story reported this and compare it to the Daily Wire version, complete with the weasel words like "might" and "could" that give them plausibility deniability when spinning the story to their ideological advantage.

As our society expands rights to include everyone there will be moments when the rights of one group will cause tensions with the rights (or perceived rights) of others. We will need to turn to reason and law and ethics to figure out how to accommodate everyone fairly.

Reason isn't what the Daily Wire is about. That is why I objected. 

Bill

 

Edited by Spy Car

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5 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

I haven't  had any lengthy interactions with transgendered people (in fact, I am not sure how I would know that my waiter, etc is transgendered) (just passed such people in the street ever since I was a child and didn't know if they were transexuals ((what they were called then if they had surgery)) or cross dressers or ? -- and no,Bill, I was never rude and stared or made comments or anything).  However, I know that I have clicked on some links where I am so confused as to who or what they are claiming to be - I think one was a person who had a beard and looked like a man but I think was wearing pink and lavender and this person was transgendered but I wasn't even sure whether they would want to be called she or he.  With my brain fog, I am trying to train myself to refer everyone by name or title.  

 

I think a teacher has a special duty of care towards a student, which makes it a different situation for me.

I am way more careful of students than I am of dudebro in lavender.

Out in the world ? If someone looks like a bloke, I'll call them he/him. If they look like a woman, I'll call them she/her. This includes passing transmen and transwomen, who, by virtue of passing, present as the opposite sex. 

I'm not interested in linguistic acrobatics, other than in service of vulnerable students in my care.

 

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2 hours ago, Katy said:

Entertaining thread!  The teacher did the right thing.  The teacher's union did the right thing.

I would definitely complain to the school board if my son were forced to change in a locker room with a girl.  I honestly think the only reason there are still male/female locker rooms is for team sports.

I wasn't forced to shower in middle and high school gym, but my husband was, starting in 6th grade.  He said it was because all boys stink and need multiple showers a day.  Some schools still force boys to shower, but I haven't heard of schools forcing girls to shower.

We often weren't supervised in the locker room, and I heard the WORST things in the locker room.  Intimate details of a certain group of girls having a rainbow party, etc. And after the locker room rapes of boys story that came out a few years back I would think ANY school would require supervision.

I personally like to balance news sources with different political views.  It seems like the only way to get the complete story and how to have a *clue* what someone is talking about if they only get their news from one particular extreme slant.

 

I agree with reading outside the bubble. I read everything, from left to right. 

On this particular topic, many of the left news sources don't cover, cover late, or cover in a not entirely factual way. It's a deliberate editorial position. 

It's a conundrum for the non conservative reader when stories are only covered by conservative sources. 

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34 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

As our society expands rights to include everyone there will be moments when the rights of one group will cause tensions with the rights (or perceived rights) of others. We will need to turn to reason and law and ethics to figure out how to accommodate everyone fairly.

 

This right here is exactly what this thread was about.

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