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Michelle Conde

Male Teacher Punished for Refusing to Watch

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https://www.dailywire.com/news/38364/male-gym-teacher-punished-refusing-oversee-girl-amanda-prestigiacomo

 

A middle school gym teacher is in trouble for refusing to supervise a female-to-male transgender student while changing in the boys’ locker room.  Administrative leave was threatened, but he has instead since been transferred to a different school.  My first response was to wonder, who would want to force an adult man to watch a biologically female child undress, transgender or otherwise?  Like, did the child’s parents actually want this policy, or was it just originating with an administrator?

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That's a sticky wicket for sure. I guess they didn't give that sort of thing consideration before implementing the policy?  I agree- it seems a little odd that the parents of the pubescent female undressing in the male locker room would want her being observed by an adult male teacher. Maybe they don't read the news much to see how that could potentially play out in an unwanted manner? 

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And I would think the parents also wouldn’t want their biologically female child to have to undress in the male locker room at all.  Regardless of what she says she is, she still has a female body that would be open to gawking by most  of the teen boy population.

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58 minutes ago, texasmom33 said:

That's a sticky wicket for sure. I guess they didn't give that sort of thing consideration before implementing the policy?  I agree- it seems a little odd that the parents of the pubescent female undressing in the male locker room would want her being observed by an adult male teacher. Maybe they don't read the news much to see how that could potentially play out in an unwanted manner? 

 

No but he seems to have remembered part of his youth protection training - he had to protect himself from liability and possible false accusations. I wonder if he will now be accused of some sort of discrimination. Sticky indeed. 

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The language in that article, and the reputation of the Daily Wire make it hard for me to trust that they're telling the whole story.  

Are there any less biased sources on the same story?

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Politically incorrect post ahead — I don’t want to argue with anyone tonight, so please consider it a JAWM, and just ignore me if you disagree. ? 

I can’t help but wonder if the transgender child’s parents were aware that their child would be undressing in a potentially crowded boys’ locker room, under the supervision of a male teacher. There is just so much that can go horribly wrong. I also wonder how the parents of the boys who are sharing the locker room with a biological female feel about this situation. 

This may be terribly politically incorrect, but I would not have been happy about a biological female sharing a locker room with my son, but it’s hard to imagine that the parents of the transgender child would be comfortable with the situation, either. And honestly, it seems odd to me that a biological female in middle school would have the slightest interest in using the boys’ locker room. Yes, I know this child self-identifies as male, but the child is certainly also acutely aware of not having the same body parts as a biological male. How would that not be awkward for everyone involved? Middle school isn’t exactly the age of supreme body confidence in boys or girls, and even being in same-sex locker rooms makes a lot of kids uncomfortable, let alone knowing that someone who is biologically of the opposite sex might be changing at the locker next to you, or walking in on you in the shower.

Edited by Catwoman
I am the Queen of the Typo!
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16 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

 

No but he seems to have remembered part of his youth protection training - he had to protect himself from liability and possible false accusations. I wonder if he will now be accused of some sort of discrimination. Sticky indeed. 

 

That poor teacher was placed in a very difficult position. I think he handled the situation very well. I can only imagine what could have happened if parents found out that a male teacher was supervising a biological female in the locker room — I’m sure they would be up in arms about it! The teacher was in a no-win situation, and really, if he’s a decent guy, he would feel like a pervert if he watched a female-bodied middle schooler change clothes in the locker room, whether or not the child self-identifies as a male. 

Edited by Catwoman
Seriously, I can’t type tonight!
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13 minutes ago, Daria said:

The language in that article, and the reputation of the Daily Wire make it hard for me to trust that they're telling the whole story.  

Are there any less biased sources on the same story?

Here's another article from a local (I think) newspaper:

https://www.tampabay.com/news/education/k12/Religious-rights-group-protests-Pasco-s-treatment-of-transgender-students_172966092

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56 minutes ago, Daria said:

The language in that article, and the reputation of the Daily Wire make it hard for me to trust that they're telling the whole story.  

Are there any less biased sources on the same story?

 

I couldn’t find any liberal news sources providing coverage of the story.  I would be interested to read if someone else can find something.

Edited by Michelle Conde

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14 minutes ago, PeachyDoodle said:

 

It was the “may take showers” part of the article that I found most disturbing.

Honest question: Does anyone think it’s a good idea for a female-bodied student to be taking showers with middle school boys? Would you want your child to be placed in that situation (whether you were the parent of the transgender student or the parent of one of the biological boys?) 

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1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

 

It was the “may take showers” part of the article that I found most disturbing.

Honest question: Does anyone think it’s a good idea for a female-bodied student to be taking showers with middle school boys? Would you want your child to be placed in that situation (whether you were the parent of the transgender student or the parent of one of the biological boys?) 

 

My kid was a 3 sport athlete in high school.  In that time, he took one shower at school, on a day when there was a dance after practice.  I asked him once why he didn't shower more often, and he said that while it was conceivably allowed, no one did it.  

The kicker on his high school football team was a cisgender girl.  She suited up in the boys locker room.  It was never an issue, the boys figured it out.  

I have trouble believing that the young man in this question planned to take a shower.  "May" means it's conceivably possible.  It doesn't mean that it's something that actually would have happened.

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1 minute ago, Daria said:

 

My kid was a 3 sport athlete in high school.  In that time, he took one shower at school, on a day when there was a dance after practice.  I asked him once why he didn't shower more often, and he said that while it was conceivably allowed, no one did it.  

The kicker on his high school football team was a cisgender girl.  She suited up in the boys locker room.  It was never an issue, the boys figured it out.  

I have trouble believing that the young man in this question planned to take a shower.  "May" means it's conceivably possible.  It doesn't mean that it's something that actually would have happened.

 

But apparently it was entirely possible that the child could decide to take a shower. And I can certainly understand why a male teacher would be uncomfortable supervising this particular child in the locker room, even if showering was only a remote possibility. I can also understand why middle school boys might be extremely uncomfortable undressing next to a biological female. 

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Is it normal for adults to “supervise” a student change room?

In my experiences, adults were nowhere near naked students. We were just alone in there, we kept our underwear on, and the showers were 100% neglected by everyone. (Some shy kids used them as private change stalls.)

I wonder if the supervision was implemented because people recognized that the transgender boy (with female bodily attributes) might be better off with an adult presence. This might have been a change from a previous policy that might or might not have involved supervision before.

I think there might be more to the story. I’ll hold my judgement for now.

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4 minutes ago, bolt. said:

Is it normal for adults to “supervise” a student change room?

In my experiences, adults were nowhere near naked students. We were just alone in there, we kept our underwear on, and the showers were 100% neglected by everyone. (Some shy kids used them as private change stalls.)

I wonder if the supervision was implemented because people recognized that the transgender boy (with female bodily attributes) might be better off with an adult presence. This might have been a change from a previous policy that might or might not have involved supervision before.

I think there might be more to the story. I’ll hold my judgement for now.

In my experience, this isn't UNcommon. Our gym teachers supervised changing in middle school. Not in a creepy, voyeuristic way, but in a "hey, hurry it up and get out there before the period is over!" way. Otherwise I expect 75% of the girls in my class would have spent the entire gym period fixing their hair.

Positively no one in my middle school would have been caught dead in the showers though. We'd rather have stunk (and I'm sure we did). They had to make a rule that changing in the toilet stalls was off limits, for the same issues of time.

Edited by PeachyDoodle
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1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

 

But apparently it was entirely possible that the child could decide to take a shower. And I can certainly understand why a male teacher would be uncomfortable supervising this particular child in the locker room, even if showering was only a remote possibility. I can also understand why middle school boys might be extremely uncomfortable undressing next to a biological female. 

 

Did the student ever shower?  How could they have showered, naked, (since I'm assuming that showering with clothing on isn't what people are worried about) without enough notice to both the teacher, and the other students that they could move away if they wanted to?  I know that in our schools' locker rooms (the one I attended now, the one I teach in now, and my kid's middle school and high school, and the one at the high school where I use the pool) they aren't set up like on a TV set, or at the public pool where the showers are open to everyone.  The showers are in one area and separated by a wall (if they're group showers), or individual stall doors (if they're individual showers).  

It's possible that this was a difficult situation, and it's possible that this kid never made any attempt to shower, never indicated an inclination to shower, and wouldn't have been in the teacher's line of site if they had changed, and the teacher in question blew it out of proportion for their own agenda.  We don't know.  

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2 minutes ago, PeachyDoodle said:

In my experience, this isn't UNcommon. Our gym teachers supervised changing in middle school. Not in a creepy, voyeuristic way, but in a "hey, hurry it up and get out there before the period is over!" way. Otherwise I expect 75% of the girls in my class would have spent the entire gym period fixing their hair.

Positively no one in my middle school would have been caught dead in the showers though. We'd rather have stunk (and I'm sure we did). They had to make a rule that changing in the toilet stalls was off limits, for the same issues of time.

 

Our gym teachers had their offices in the locker rooms, positioned above the changing areas, and the offices had glass windows all around so the teachers could see what was going on. I don’t remember seeing them watching us, but they were definitely in there.

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1 minute ago, Daria said:

 

Did the student ever shower?  How could they have showered, naked, (since I'm assuming that showering with clothing on isn't what people are worried about) without enough notice to both the teacher, and the other students that they could move away if they wanted to?  I know that in our schools' locker rooms (the one I attended now, the one I teach in now, and my kid's middle school and high school, and the one at the high school where I use the pool) they aren't set up like on a TV set, or at the public pool where the showers are open to everyone.  The showers are in one area and separated by a wall (if they're group showers), or individual stall doors (if they're individual showers).  

It's possible that this was a difficult situation, and it's possible that this kid never made any attempt to shower, never indicated an inclination to shower, and wouldn't have been in the teacher's line of site if they had changed, and the teacher in question blew it out of proportion for their own agenda.  We don't know.  

 

I don’t know that the teacher ever mentioned the shower at all. And what “agenda” are you suggesting the teacher might have, and how was he blowing anything out of proportion? 

A male teacher not wanting to view a biologically female middle school student getting undressed seems pretty reasonable to me. 

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When I was in middle school, the showers were one large room with a bunch of open shower heads- no privacy at all. And the changing areas were large open ares with benches and lockers. Are schools still like that? 

(i fully support transgender rights and the ability of the person to use which ever restroom they prefer, but I may use some of the wrong vocabulary below just because I don't know the proper word to use.)

even in the all girls locker room we all hated showers. I can't imagine a true transgender kid wanted to take a shower in a shower room full of naked people with the opposite body type. Even without the potential harassment issues, I would think that would further emphasize to the kid how different they really looked from their preferred gender.

I do agree with the district policy as stated in the article - that staff members cannot share the student's information without express permission. Schools cannot share private information including disabilities or HIV status.

For the teacher's perspective, I can totally support his actions. A male teacher would never be expected to supervise openly female  students in a Female locker room, same for a female teacher and male students. If I was in this situation, at the minimum I would want a second adult in the room at the same time. Which come to think of it, is not a bad policy to have in general. To me it is not specifically about the child's gender but more about protecting the teacher from false accusations.

i think the solution to this would be to go to a more costly design for a locker room that would include private changing and shower areas.

 

edited to add: in middle school we were required to take a shower after PE. The female coach would sit outside of the large shower room in a chair with her back to the showers. As we came out, we had to say our "number". Showers were part of the participation grade.

Edited by City Mouse
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5 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Our gym teachers had their offices in the locker rooms, positioned above the changing areas, and the offices had glass windows all around so the teachers could see what was going on. I don’t remember seeing them watching us, but they were definitely in there.


Interesting.  There has been a lot of changes in schools since you and I attended, and rules about boundaries between adults and kids is one are where it's really obvious.  

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Just now, Daria said:


Interesting.  There has been a lot of changes in schools since you and I attended, and rules about boundaries between adults and kids is one are where it's really obvious.  

 

I agree!  ?

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4 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I don’t know that the teacher ever mentioned the shower at all. And what “agenda” are you suggesting the teacher might have, and how was he blowing anything out of proportion? 

A male teacher not wanting to view a biologically female middle school student getting undressed seems pretty reasonable to me. 


We don't know that the kid ever undressed in the locker room, or wanted to undress in the locker room.  I'm assuming from the "students may take showers" that this student never did take a shower.   So, it's quite possible that the teacher was blowing something out of proportion. 

I assume that in going to the media, the teacher wanted something.  Their job reinstated?  The policy changed?  Attention?  Now, maybe it was a reasonable request, but that's hard to say when he's being represented by an organization that has it's own agenda, as evidenced by the fact that the organization, Liberty Counsel, that seems to be speaking on his behalf, is also advocating for changes in how the district uses pronouns, and stopping the gay straight alliance.  

 

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4 minutes ago, City Mouse said:

even in the all girls locker room we all hated showers. I can't imagine a true transgender kid wanted to take a shower in a shower room full of naked people with the opposite body type. Even without the potential harassment issues, I would think that would further emphasize to the kid how different they really looked from their preferred gender.

 

I wouldn’t have imagined so, either, except that this particular kid did want to go change clothes in a room full of undressed people with the opposite body type.  Frankly, I don’t think our guesses on the likelihood of the showers actually being used is really relevant to the question of whether it is a reasonable school policy or not.

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My high school kids shower in school after PE and after sporting competitions. They don’t have much time to shower and dress in PE, so there is no taking turns as an option. Showers are not individual. 

Not showering, at least for boys, is a social negative. 

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9 minutes ago, Daria said:


We don't know that the kid ever undressed in the locker room, or wanted to undress in the locker room.  I'm assuming from the "students may take showers" that this student never did take a shower.   So, it's quite possible that the teacher was blowing something out of proportion. 

I assume that in going to the media, the teacher wanted something.  Their job reinstated?  The policy changed?  Attention?  Now, maybe it was a reasonable request, but that's hard to say when he's being represented by an organization that has it's own agenda, as evidenced by the fact that the organization, Liberty Counsel, that seems to be speaking on his behalf, is also advocating for changes in how the district uses pronouns, and stopping the gay straight alliance.  

 

 

Thanks for clarifying — I appreciate it. 

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4 minutes ago, Daria said:


We don't know that the kid ever undressed in the locker room, or wanted to undress in the locker room.  I'm assuming from the "students may take showers" that this student never did take a shower.   So, it's quite possible that the teacher was blowing something out of proportion. 

 

Yes, the kid started using the boy’s locker room in September.

From the Liberty Counsel complaint to the school board:

“Yesterday (Thursday, September 27, 2018), the girl was admitted to the boys locker room for the first time, and walked in, catching boys (literally) with their pants down, causing them embarrassment and concern by the fact that they had been observed changing by an obvious girl. Boys immediately came out of the locker room, and approached Stephanie and Robert, seeking assistance. The P.E. teachers were powerless to respond, because administrators had placed a gag order on them, and told them that they could not answer the boys on these questions. Today, boys were asking Robert why he is not supervising them. Again, he was not able to respond.”

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1 minute ago, Michelle Conde said:

 

Yes, the kid started using the boy’s locker room in September.

From the Liberty Counsel complaint to the school board:

“Yesterday (Thursday, September 27, 2018), the girl was admitted to the boys locker room for the first time, and walked in, catching boys (literally) with their pants down, causing them embarrassment and concern by the fact that they had been observed changing by an obvious girl. Boys immediately came out of the locker room, and approached Stephanie and Robert, seeking assistance. The P.E. teachers were powerless to respond, because administrators had placed a gag order on them, and told them that they could not answer the boys on these questions. Today, boys were asking Robert why he is not supervising them. Again, he was not able to respond.”

 

Read my post again.  I said it's possible the kid never undressed.  Nothing in your post implies that they undressed.  My guess is that they didn't, because Liberty Counsel would have reason to say so.  Similarly, if boys had been in the shower when she walked in, that would have been mentioned, because it would fit with Liberty Counsel's agenda.  

 

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30 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I don’t know that the teacher ever mentioned the shower at all. And what “agenda” are you suggesting the teacher might have, and how was he blowing anything out of proportion? 

A male teacher not wanting to view a biologically female middle school student getting undressed seems pretty reasonable to me. 

 

Cat, some people view 'safeguarding' in this context as a transphobic dog whistle.

It also seems reasonable to me that teachers with a female body supervise changing students with female bodies, and teachers with male bodies supervise  changing students with male bodies, Some people view this as bigotry and transphobia.

Edited by StellaM
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Well I am always super cautious about adults and children but then you have story after story like this:

https://abc11.com/news/va-hs-football-players-facing-sodomy-hazing-charges/1085620/

Which makes me feel like locker rooms DO need adult supervision.  I guess locker rooms need some kind of redesign with lockable doors to shower/change in with a common area for things like putting on gear/shoes/etc....Adult could stay in common area and supervise with a sight line to the showers to make sure only one kid per stall.  2 adults would be the best scenario to protect both youth and adults.  This should work for transgender students as well. Expensive but I think this is the way we are headed. I would not want my son in a locker room at all right now, but I would be much more concerned with a possible culture of hazing by straight males than I would be about a tween or teen transgender student personally.

 

 

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42 minutes ago, bolt. said:

Is it normal for adults to “supervise” a student change room?

In my experiences, adults were nowhere near naked students. We were just alone in there, we kept our underwear on, and the showers were 100% neglected by everyone. (Some shy kids used them as private change stalls.)

I wonder if the supervision was implemented because people recognized that the transgender boy (with female bodily attributes) might be better off with an adult presence. This might have been a change from a previous policy that might or might not have involved supervision before.

I think there might be more to the story. I’ll hold my judgement for now.

Obviously I don’t know in this case but at our old PS jr high they had to have a teacher come in when smart phones became an issue with students trying to take pictures and/or film each other changing. So it’s not unheard of. I’m too old to remember what it was like when I was in junior high. 

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1 minute ago, StellaM said:

 

Cat, some people view 'safeguarding' in this context as a transphobic dog whistle.

It also seems reasonable to me that teachers with a female body supervise changing students with female bodies, and teachers with male bodies supervise  changing students with male bodies, Some people view this as bigotry and transphobia.


See to me, given the frequency of sexual abuse perpetrated on students by adults, both same gender and opposite gender, it doesn't make sense for teachers of any body type to be visually supervising unclothed students.  It doesn't make sense to the administrators of any school I've been in either, so locker rooms and changing routines at the schools I've been at are set up to prevent that.  

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40 minutes ago, Daria said:


I assume that in going to the media, the teacher wanted something.  Their job reinstated?  The policy changed?  Attention?  Now, maybe it was a reasonable request, but that's hard to say when he's being represented by an organization that has it's own agenda, as evidenced by the fact that the organization, Liberty Counsel, that seems to be speaking on his behalf, is also advocating for changes in how the district uses pronouns, and stopping the gay straight alliance.  

 

The gym teachers didn’t go to the media.  They went to a pro bono group willing to help them when placed between a rock and a hard place: watch a female-bodied student undress or be reprimanded for discrimination.  The media picked up the story after the Liberty Counsel submitted an official complaint to the school board on their behalf.

 

By “changes in how the district uses pronouns” you must be referring to the part of the complaint where they protest the school trying to compel employees to use preferred pronouns?  It’s part of the same new policies, not a change from how they have done things in the past.  Your statement that they are advocating stopping the gay-straight alliance is incorrect.  They suggested that all school clubs should have parent permission slips, based on concerns brought to them by parents that the GSA at a district school was referring students to an outside organization without parental knowledge (one that held “youth” events for teens up through young adults aged 22 that they felt encouraged relationships between adults and teens).

Edited by Michelle Conde
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10 minutes ago, Michelle Conde said:

 

The gym teachers didn’t go to the media.  They went to a pro bono group willing to help them when placed between a rock and a hard place: watch a female-bodied student undress or be reprimanded for discrimination.  The media picked up the story after the Liberty Counsel submitted an official complaint to the school board on their behalf.

 

By “changes in how the district uses pronouns” you must be referring to the part of the complaint where they protest the school trying to compel employees to use preferred pronouns?  It’s part of the same new policies, not a change from how they have done things in the past.  Your statement that they are advocating stopping the gay-straight alliance is incorrect.  They suggested that all school club should should have parent permission slips, based on concerns brought to them by parents that the GSA at a district school was referring students to an outside organization without parental knowledge (one that held “youth” events for teens up through young adults aged 22 that they felt encouraged relationships between adults and teens).

 

I am gay positive, but I do have concerns about the way support groups for gay and lesbian kids are set up. 

Ds can't go to any around here, because they are for ages 14-25. And I don't want him in a group with grown men. Because....safe guarding.

I would be furious if he was referred without my consent. 

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13 minutes ago, Daria said:

Read my post again.  I said it's possible the kid never undressed.  Nothing in your post implies that they undressed.  My guess is that they didn't, because Liberty Counsel would have reason to say so.  Similarly, if boys had been in the shower when she walked in, that would have been mentioned, because it would fit with Liberty Counsel's agenda.  

 

Are you suggesting that the student went into the boys’ locker room for some other purpose than to change clothes, and that the teacher objected to supervising just in case a student with no intention of changing in that locker room inexplicably did so?  That the school put this policy in place and tried to enforce compliance from their employees without a transgender student wanting them to?  And that the complaints the school board is fielding are about the student walking into the locker room where the boys were changing and then walking out again?  (Frankly, if I were the parent of one of those boys, this scenario would be rather weirder than a transgender student wanting to use the locker room with all the guys.)

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I just don’t think it makes sense to assume nefarious intent or ulterior motives when there are perfectly reasonable explanations apparent.

Edited by Michelle Conde

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I can't imagine having a locker room that didn't have at least a potential for adult supervision.  Kids get up to bad things in all kinds of places, that's why they have adults supervising them a lot of the time.  What are they going to do if there is some problem in there, just leave them to it?

  This idea that a teacher supervising the group is more likely to be a problem than some kid in the group sounds lie a judgement out of hysteria to me, like being worried someone is going to kidnap your kid while you return your cart, when they are really more likely to be killed walking in the parking lot.

Anyway, I think he'd be crazy to be willing to supervise in that situation, even if it didn't bother him in a personal way. If it was my dh I'd be worried to death someone would decide after all it was not on and he'd be in trouble for that.

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1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

 

Our gym teachers had their offices in the locker rooms, positioned above the changing areas, and the offices had glass windows all around so the teachers could see what was going on. I don’t remember seeing them watching us, but they were definitely in there.

 

Our local middle schools (all relatively new construction) have a coaches office in the locker room with a window that can see into the changing area, which sounds similar to what you had but on the ground level.

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With the amount of hazing, gang issues, weapons, drug use and everything else going on at so many public junior high and high schools, any administration who didn't see the potential for liability when giving kids zero supervision in a locker room would seem very short sighted and naive at the least and more likely flat out negligent. However, the spectacular ineptitude of public school officials never ceases to amaze, so I'm sure that's probably the case more often that not.

"We can't let them go to the bathroom without raising their hand and receiving a hall pass, but let's let them all roam around the locker rooms unsupervised in a co-ed manner! What possibly could go wrong?" ?

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1 hour ago, Michelle Conde said:

 

I couldn’t find any liberal news sources providing coverage of the story.  I would be interested to read if someone else can find something.

so the local newspaper - the tampa bay times, wasn't good enough for you?

1 hour ago, bolt. said:

Is it normal for adults to “supervise” a student change room?

In my experiences, adults were nowhere near naked students. We were just alone in there, we kept our underwear on, and the showers were 100% neglected by everyone. (Some shy kids used them as private change stalls.)

I wonder if the supervision was implemented because people recognized that the transgender boy (with female bodily attributes) might be better off with an adult presence. This might have been a change from a previous policy that might or might not have involved supervision before.

I think there might be more to the story. I’ll hold my judgement for now.

It has been here - they're not sitting in the room - they are generally in their office, but can see what is going on.  and they need to be able to see what is going on.   (given the age of the kids and the things they can get up to . . . .)

what school did people go to that they had private stalls?  for dressing or showers?   it has always been one big open room.   that way teachers can see what is going on -and stop people doing things they're not supposed to do before it gets out of hand (hopefully).

we have brand new buildings here (earthquake codes and forcing visitors to go through the office.), showers are open, locker room is open.

10 minutes ago, ChocolateReignRemix said:

 

Our local middle schools (all relatively new construction) have a coaches office in the locker room with a window that can see into the changing area, which sounds similar to what you had but on the ground level.

my son's teacher is IN the locker room when they are changing.   given what kids can get up to, and cell phones . bad combination for a lord of the flies free for all.  and some students do think the locker room is an easier place to bully others than a general classroom.

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1 minute ago, gardenmom5 said:

so the local newspaper - the tampa bay times, wasn't good enough for you?

 

Not that at all, I just hadn’t seen that link yet when I wrote the post you quoted—I responded as soon as I saw the first objection to the Daily Wire, without reading the rest of the responses first.

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11 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

Come on people, use your brains. This is the Daily Wire. LOL.

Don't fall into the cesspool.

Bill

 

Do you have any thoughts you’d like to share on the story?

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My middle school had private showers and attached private changing cubicle. Showers were required and the couch walked by and put their hand in to make sure the shower was running.

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8 minutes ago, Michelle Conde said:

 

Do you have any thoughts you’d like to share on the story?

I've made myself entirely clear.

Please don't bring this trash here.

Bill

 

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11 minutes ago, Michelle Conde said:

 

Do you have any thoughts you’d like to share on the story?

 

No no, that's not how it works.

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May I ask those objecting to the source, are you opposed to the bias, or have you found instances in the past where it engaged in incorrect reporting?

 It definitely has a very strong conservative bias, but I am actually okay with that in a news source so long as they are open about it, don’t try to pass off their reporting as objective, or try to obscure facts.  Some years back I despaired of finding an unbiased news source, and instead settled for reading from a variety of sources from both sides that are open about their bias.  It seemed like the only way to get a somewhat balanced picture of what was going on in the world.  It’s really a fascinating study, comparing which stories each side highlights and which each tries to sweep under the rug, and how each can spin the same story with the exact same facts to provide a different conclusion.  But I have two different categories; those which need to be read with a grain of salt for bias, but whose facts are generally reliable, and those I have found to be dishonest, which I glance at very occasionally in order to get an idea of where people on either extreme are getting their perspectives from.

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4 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

I've made myself entirely clear.

Please don't bring this trash here.

Bill

 

Actually you haven’t.  You have made no comment on either article, from either source.

I like you, Bill.  I’ve enjoyed your posts a lot over the years.  I know you have strong opinions, but I’m not sure why you feel the need to be rude instead of just sharing them.

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