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Shellydon

newly diagnosed -- dyslexia

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Hi all.  My 9 yo old son was diagnosed with dyslexia this week.  He has been struggling with reading for years, but doesn't have any of the typical signs of dyslexia.  I decided to have him tested in September because he was just progressing so slowly.  He struggles with writing and reading, math skills are above grade level.  Can anyone give me pointers of where to start for curriculum or programs?  We currently use all about reading.  Lexercise has been recommended as has Barton. 

If I order Barton, can anyone tell me what to get besides the Level 1 kit? 

Writing-- he needs to build endurance-- suggestions on that?

Finally-- cost is not an issue. I will purchase whatever is necessary to help this kiddo.

Thanks

Edited by Shellydon

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I would probably start with Barton, it will do the best (that I'm aware of) at filling in any holes from the ground up. 

For writing, I would probably recommend a good typing program if hand strength and endurance are a problem and see if typing makes that easier.

 

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Welcome to LC! Here is a great place to be. It's really hard to get the diagnoses, but once you get them, like you say, it's permission to take a deep breath and start moving forward.

So on Barton, the gig is that when you go to resell you're going to want to keep your tiles. If you buy directly from Barton, order an extra set (or two!) of tiles for the level. They're cumulative, so you'll do this every time you buy. And that way, when you sell the person receiving the set will also have tiles. Some people buy and keep their sets to tutor or use with multiple children, so I kind of didn't worry beyond that. I just wanted to be able to sell my sets with tiles and still have tiles to keep going.

Did you do the Barton placement test yet? https://bartonreading.com/students/#ss  You DEFINITELY want to do this before you buy your first level. Some students need some precursor work, and the screening tool will walk you through exactly what your options are for that if he needs it. Once you do the screening tool, report back with the scores and will help you.  :)  Remember too, you can always call Barton! Seriously, she takes calls, emails, and she's lovely! 

Does he have any complicating factors like articulation issues, language problems, ID (intellectual disability), etc.? We did, so Barton needed a lot of flexing for us. Barton is upfront about things her program is not prepared to address. If you have co-morbid or complicating issues like that, you'll need to talk through them and make sure all your bases are covered.

If you buy from Barton directly, she will send you a link to the tutor materials online. This is awesome, because it means you get to watch the videos and are good to go as soon as your kit comes!!!

When you say writing endurance, you mean physical stamina? A writing SLD diagnosis, well my ds has it and honestly I have a hard time pinning down what in the world they're looking for. I think it's the convergence of ability to organize the thoughts AND ability to get the thoughts on paper. So think about that. You can get a referral for OT and pursue OT, and they might find some things that are making it hard for him to get his thoughts onto paper. I've done OT with my dd (who is now kicking butt in college, yay!!) and my ds. There are fine motor things that can be addressed, stuff with core and how they're resting their weight that can make it painful, retained reflexes in the hands (Babkin, Palmer, etc.) that are KNOWN to glitch the hand to brain to language connection. And will you get an OT who knows about reflexes? LOL Good luck on that. I just started a thread, so you could read there. Apparently Pyramid of Potential has their downloadable videos on sale. I need to go look. The PT we used for reflexes had been trained with their stuff, and the ones we did WORKED, huge differences.

So I personally would not ramp up any expectation of writing by hand until you've had an OT eval *and* checked super thoroughly for retained reflexes. 

I don't know if you've heard Pudewa talk at conventions, but he does these talks on boys and he repeats a comment that I think was from an author (Steve Green? I forget, someone jump in here). The idea though is "If they could, they would." So you've got these labels now, but there's also this gentleness and restraint required, where you're sort of balancing yes it's hard and wow we really need to figure out why this isn't clicking. If they could, they would.

I've got an OT now who literally viewed working on handwriting as cracking the whip. For real. She'd sit him down each week and glare and say WRITE. We're gonna fire her. ;)  Our previous OT, whom we're scheduled to go back to, would work on handwriting in games, found exactly what stage of handwriting he was prepared to do with joy, and did that. The next effect writing with her? He came home and started trying to write more!!! His confidence was boosted!!! But this draconian OT was like oh no, must write on lined paper, must this, must that, and ds has totally shut down. 

So it's not that we're pushovers and not willing to do hard things, but we're also watching and going ok what is the net effect on the dc, is the task within reach, is it bringing joy and the self-reward of knowing the task was in reach and I got it? Success is very motivating. 

Your other tip of the day, since you didn't ask LOL, is to remember to be putting time daily into something that is a STRENGTH. 

2nd, 3rd, and 4th the mention of typing. He might be a bit young, but it could take a while. Talking Fingers is adorable. Definitely start pursuing tech. Does he have a kindle or ipad mini or something portable so he can listen to audiobooks while he plays, etc? Audiobooks are SO going to cover your butt. You can get him registered with the National Library Service (BARD), Bookshare, etc. for free and get access to stuff. We use NLS a LOT. And then, whatever tech you give him will also be able to do dictation!! You can scan worksheets and type on them. He can dictate emails and texts to friends. Look up videos by Ben Foss and see him doing this stuff. 

On the writing as composition, my question would be whether they did any narrative language testing? If they didn't, then ask yourself informally how he does with narration. If he seems to have any issues there at all, then I would be backing up and getting an SLP eval for language and/or looking into the Story Grammar Marker materials. SKILL (Gillam) is a similar program out of Utah State. It has some data behind it but doesn't go as far making the connection from narrative to expository writing the way SGM does. I'm actually using both, because SKILL has a clearer structure for ds and SGM has an autism kit that brings some extra modifications and graphic organizers he needs. Either way, what these programs are acknowledging what we already know as classical educators and readers of WTM, that narrative language is IMPORTANT and it's the foundation of learning to get out our thoughts, organize them, prioritize, etc. SGM was developed by an SLP working in a dyslexia school, so you're probably going to find it intuitively hits issues he has. You cannot go wrong offering more support and structure for the writing process, highly recommend. They'll also have great sales with Thanksgiving and Christmas coming up. Check out their FB page to get hooked up with those. :)

Sounds like you're making great progress formulating a game plan!! You go girl! 

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One other thing to consider, if cost is not as much of an issue, is to hire a tutor.

This is the approach that we started with, and it was highly effective. Right before fourth grade, DD13 was diagnosed with dyslexia, and the neuropsych said her phonological problems were severe. She had two hours of tutoring per week with an Orton Gillingham trained tutor during fourth grade (that is the year she transitioned from homeschooling to brick and mortar school, so we did not choose an at-home program, like Barton). In fifth grade, she enrolled in a private school for dyslexia, and when they gave her the phonological testing (CTOPP), her scores were so much higher. After just a year of tutoring at that point. Her school weaves OG into all of their lessons, and it has been so good for her.

So in addition to considering Barton (which is what I would have purchased if we had continued homeschooling), you might consider tutoring. Look for an Orton Gillingham trained tutor. If you have a private dyslexia school nearby or anywhere in your state, you may want to contact them, because often part of their mission is to help the community, not just their students, and they are willing to give advice about how to find a tutor, etc.

Barton teaches the parent how to be the tutor, but I have heard that it can be a hard slog. I've also been told that people who take OG training find it to be the most intense and challenging learning experience they have gone through (and these are usually teachers, many of whom are certified in special ed). So tutoring for dyslexia is a specialty skill. Parents can take on the challenge at home, but it's going to be hard work for both parent and student. I just want to point out that hiring a tutor can be a good option.

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1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

Welcome to LC! Here is a great place to be. It's really hard to get the diagnoses, but once you get them, like you say, it's permission to take a deep breath and start moving forward.

So on Barton, the gig is that when you go to resell you're going to want to keep your tiles. If you buy directly from Barton, order an extra set (or two!) of tiles for the level. They're cumulative, so you'll do this every time you buy. And that way, when you sell the person receiving the set will also have tiles. Some people buy and keep their sets to tutor or use with multiple children, so I kind of didn't worry beyond that. I just wanted to be able to sell my sets with tiles and still have tiles to keep going.

Did you do the Barton placement test yet? https://bartonreading.com/students/#ss  You DEFINITELY want to do this before you buy your first level. Some students need some precursor work, and the screening tool will walk you through exactly what your options are for that if he needs it. Once you do the screening tool, report back with the scores and will help you. ?  Remember too, you can always call Barton! Seriously, she takes calls, emails, and she's lovely! 

Does he have any complicating factors like articulation issues, language problems, ID (intellectual disability), etc.? We did, so Barton needed a lot of flexing for us. Barton is upfront about things her program is not prepared to address. If you have co-morbid or complicating issues like that, you'll need to talk through them and make sure all your bases are covered.

If you buy from Barton directly, she will send you a link to the tutor materials online. This is awesome, because it means you get to watch the videos and are good to go as soon as your kit comes!!!

When you say writing endurance, you mean physical stamina? A writing SLD diagnosis, well my ds has it and honestly I have a hard time pinning down what in the world they're looking for. I think it's the convergence of ability to organize the thoughts AND ability to get the thoughts on paper. So think about that. You can get a referral for OT and pursue OT, and they might find some things that are making it hard for him to get his thoughts onto paper. I've done OT with my dd (who is now kicking butt in college, yay!!) and my ds. There are fine motor things that can be addressed, stuff with core and how they're resting their weight that can make it painful, retained reflexes in the hands (Babkin, Palmer, etc.) that are KNOWN to glitch the hand to brain to language connection. And will you get an OT who knows about reflexes? LOL Good luck on that. I just started a thread, so you could read there. Apparently Pyramid of Potential has their downloadable videos on sale. I need to go look. The PT we used for reflexes had been trained with their stuff, and the ones we did WORKED, huge differences.

So I personally would not ramp up any expectation of writing by hand until you've had an OT eval *and* checked super thoroughly for retained reflexes. 

I don't know if you've heard Pudewa talk at conventions, but he does these talks on boys and he repeats a comment that I think was from an author (Steve Green? I forget, someone jump in here). The idea though is "If they could, they would." So you've got these labels now, but there's also this gentleness and restraint required, where you're sort of balancing yes it's hard and wow we really need to figure out why this isn't clicking. If they could, they would.

I've got an OT now who literally viewed working on handwriting as cracking the whip. For real. She'd sit him down each week and glare and say WRITE. We're gonna fire her. ?  Our previous OT, whom we're scheduled to go back to, would work on handwriting in games, found exactly what stage of handwriting he was prepared to do with joy, and did that. The next effect writing with her? He came home and started trying to write more!!! His confidence was boosted!!! But this draconian OT was like oh no, must write on lined paper, must this, must that, and ds has totally shut down. 

So it's not that we're pushovers and not willing to do hard things, but we're also watching and going ok what is the net effect on the dc, is the task within reach, is it bringing joy and the self-reward of knowing the task was in reach and I got it? Success is very motivating. 

Your other tip of the day, since you didn't ask LOL, is to remember to be putting time daily into something that is a STRENGTH. 

2nd, 3rd, and 4th the mention of typing. He might be a bit young, but it could take a while. Talking Fingers is adorable. Definitely start pursuing tech. Does he have a kindle or ipad mini or something portable so he can listen to audiobooks while he plays, etc? Audiobooks are SO going to cover your butt. You can get him registered with the National Library Service (BARD), Bookshare, etc. for free and get access to stuff. We use NLS a LOT. And then, whatever tech you give him will also be able to do dictation!! You can scan worksheets and type on them. He can dictate emails and texts to friends. Look up videos by Ben Foss and see him doing this stuff. 

On the writing as composition, my question would be whether they did any narrative language testing? If they didn't, then ask yourself informally how he does with narration. If he seems to have any issues there at all, then I would be backing up and getting an SLP eval for language and/or looking into the Story Grammar Marker materials. SKILL (Gillam) is a similar program out of Utah State. It has some data behind it but doesn't go as far making the connection from narrative to expository writing the way SGM does. I'm actually using both, because SKILL has a clearer structure for ds and SGM has an autism kit that brings some extra modifications and graphic organizers he needs. Either way, what these programs are acknowledging what we already know as classical educators and readers of WTM, that narrative language is IMPORTANT and it's the foundation of learning to get out our thoughts, organize them, prioritize, etc. SGM was developed by an SLP working in a dyslexia school, so you're probably going to find it intuitively hits issues he has. You cannot go wrong offering more support and structure for the writing process, highly recommend. They'll also have great sales with Thanksgiving and Christmas coming up. Check out their FB page to get hooked up with those. ?

Sounds like you're making great progress formulating a game plan!! You go girl! 

Thanks for all the info.  I really appreciate your information sharing.  On here, I typically do not reveal personal info, but I think I need to here.  I am a speech-language pathologist. ?  I have tested this kiddos language multiple times because he was struggling so much with reading.  Language scores always come out high normal to above average.   His comprehension of complex text is excellent.  He is a perfectionist, so writing is a struggle because he can't make the letters perfect.  His endurance for writing is poor.  We have worked our way through WWE1 and are starting on 2.  He can do everything verbally, but writing is such struggle.  His penmanship looks good when I can get him to write, nothing atypical, he just hates it.

Part of the reason it took me until this year to get him tested is that he doesn't have any of the 'soft signs' I typically find when I am evaluating a student who I suspect also has dyslexia.  I refer out children all the time for additional dyslexia testing.  

I have given him the Barton screening and he passes.  I will go ahead and order level 1 and get started on the training.

Thanks again!  I have kids waiting for me to help with school but will check back in later and re-read your post for more info.

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Since everyone is different, I would say that any reputable Orton-Gillingham-based program is the way to go. I personally like Wilson a lot. I haven't tried Barton.

With my dyslexic students, I often use the Lindamood-Bell program LiPS. If your son has difficulty distinguishing the different vowel sounds (for example, mixing up e and i), or has trouble segmenting sounds (like "slip" into "s-l-i-p), you would want to first address underlying phonemic awareness weaknesses.

The great strength of Orton-Gillingham programs is they are sequential, teaching each sound thoroughly. You should choose a program that has students building with letter tiles. Building with tiles forces students to recognize each sound in a word.

Edited by Mainer
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Realized I have two additional questions-- Barton has a computer app in lieu of the tiles-- is that okay or should I buy physical tiles. 

Spanish-- DS is enrolled in an elementary Spanish program at co-op.  He is doing fine (hates it, but is doing fine), should I continue the class or will adding reading/spelling in Spanish be detrimental. 

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1 hour ago, Shellydon said:

I am a speech-language pathologist. ?  I have tested this kiddos language multiple times because he was struggling so much with reading.  Language scores always come out high normal to above average.  

Cool! You ran the CELF, CASL or TILLS? There's a really good EBP for SLPs FB group where quite a few people are dealing with literacy. You might find good help there. And because I'm terribly nosy, have you run the TNL on him?

35 minutes ago, Shellydon said:

Realized I have two additional questions-- Barton has a computer app in lieu of the tiles-- is that okay or should I buy physical tiles. 

Spanish-- DS is enrolled in an elementary Spanish program at co-op.  He is doing fine (hates it, but is doing fine), should I continue the class or will adding reading/spelling in Spanish be detrimental. 

I like the physical tiles *and* the ipad app. I would start with the physical tiles and switch to the ipad app later, like maybe level 3. See what you think. 

On the spanish, hmm. I don't think it's so much a question of whether Barton is going to mess up his spanish. It's more just a total load, brain drain thing. How hard are you going to go at the Barton? If you're going to do 2-3 hours a day of Barton (which some people do, it's not crazy), then probably you're going to have to cut back on some things simply because he'll be tired! And in a situation like that, you might want to have his remaining energy and time spent on something highly preferred. But if you're going at it at maybe 1 hour a day, 4 days a week, that's really different.

Maybe just talk with him and collaborate? I've seen some terrible stats lately about later intervention vs. early, so I'd be in favor of a really aggressive approach. Like when you consider what is IMPORTANT right now, focusing on reading for say 3-6 months and seeing how far you could get might be more important. He might literally go through 4 levels of Barton and be reading books by then. Not every kid needs levels 5-9 of Barton. I've seen SLPs in literacy saying they just switch over to morphology and spelling resources at that point. Things clicked for ds and he's not the only one. But I think it sort of depends what is important to HIM. Is he motivated to work like that? What does he want and how much does he want it and what would it take to achieve his goals?

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1 hour ago, Shellydon said:

I have given him the Barton screening and he passes.  I will go ahead and order level 1 and get started on the training.

That's exciting that he passes the screening! Barton is good, Wilson is good, and getting OG training would be good. Any of those would work for you. Barton's niche is being open and go. Hopefully you enjoy it! And if you get into it and want something more flexible, you go pursue OG training, no biggee. But for open and go, Barton is where it's at. 

Keep us posted! :)

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1 hour ago, Mainer said:

I would say that any reputable Orton-Gillingham-based program is the way to go. I personally like Wilson a lot.

Yup, ANY of them would work for her. It's more how much prep you want, whether your dc fits the intended market, etc. 

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5 hours ago, Shellydon said:

Realized I have two additional questions-- Barton has a computer app in lieu of the tiles-- is that okay or should I buy physical tiles. 

I agree with PeterPan that starting with physical tiles is a good idea, and then move to the app later on. He may like the app, or may not. I'm not sure if there's research specifically on using tiles, but my students seem to get a lot out of physically moving the tiles around the table. It's also easy for me to put my finger on the tiles, and ask questions - not sure if that would be possible with an app (might move stuff around).

I'm jealous - I think being a speech-language pathologist would be so fascinating ? 

Oh, and about writing... I would just stick with however much writing the program you choose recommends. For my beginning Wilson students, they write 2-3 sentences each session. I know they write in their regular LA classes, but with me, I insist on 2-3 proper sentences. Your son might not balk so much if he knew there was a limit to the amount of writing involved. I'm sure writing is a struggle when you don't spell fluidly. Someone on this board recently suggested drawing comic strips and writing the speech bubbles, and I thought that was a really fun and creative idea!

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2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Cool! You ran the CELF, CASL or TILLS? There's a really good EBP for SLPs FB group where quite a few people are dealing with literacy. You might find good help there. And because I'm terribly nosy, have you run the TNL on him?

I like the physical tiles *and* the ipad app. I would start with the physical tiles and switch to the ipad app later, like maybe level 3. See what you think. 

On the spanish, hmm. I don't think it's so much a question of whether Barton is going to mess up his spanish. It's more just a total load, brain drain thing. How hard are you going to go at the Barton? If you're going to do 2-3 hours a day of Barton (which some people do, it's not crazy), then probably you're going to have to cut back on some things simply because he'll be tired! And in a situation like that, you might want to have his remaining energy and time spent on something highly preferred. But if you're going at it at maybe 1 hour a day, 4 days a week, that's really different.

Maybe just talk with him and collaborate? I've seen some terrible stats lately about later intervention vs. early, so I'd be in favor of a really aggressive approach. Like when you consider what is IMPORTANT right now, focusing on reading for say 3-6 months and seeing how far you could get might be more important. He might literally go through 4 levels of Barton and be reading books by then. Not every kid needs levels 5-9 of Barton. I've seen SLPs in literacy saying they just switch over to morphology and spelling resources at that point. Things clicked for ds and he's not the only one. But I think it sort of depends what is important to HIM. Is he motivated to work like that? What does he want and how much does he want it and what would it take to achieve his goals?

I have done the CELF-5 and CASL-2 along with a subtest of the CASL-1.  The original CASL had a subtest that they did away with in the second version.  My company doesn't have the TNL or TILLS, so I haven't done those. I have given him pieces of the TOLD as well.  

For Spanish, it is minimal homework, 15-20 minutes a week and mostly just exposes him to the correct accent, so I think we'll stick it out.  I forsee us doing 1-2 hours of Barton 4 times a week right now.  He has 3 older siblings, so I am pulled in a lot of directions already. 

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He didn't get a dysgraphia diagnosis along with the dyslexia? What you are describing sounds a lot like red flags for dysgraphia and it often accompanies dyslexia. One of the best things we ever did was Read, Write, Type. It is a typing program that reinforces the phonics from an OG program while getting you around the hang up of dysgraphia. You can buy online licenses for a period of time.

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We skipped all the writing in Barton (shhh), but I think it has them start with words, and then it probably extends them to sentences. It brings in some snazzy grammar working at the phrase level too that you can milk so you don't need additional grammar right now. I think writing at the word level to build confidence is really smart. You can probably get many words out of him, one at a time, where he might lock up for sentences. I think the sentences could come naturally. Also consider whether you want lined or unlined, like log paper vs. a whiteboard vs. a lined whiteboard. You can draw lines on an inexpensive whiteboard using a sharpie and have them be permanent. Just depends on where he is with his fine motor and what is important. There is data behind making the *effort* to write what he's thinking/spelling, because it makes connections in the sides of the brain. But you have a lot of flexibility in how you do it. Personally, I would go for comfort and confidence. I've had an OT (whom we're firing, pht, pht) push writing to the point of making what should be happy wearisome, and I've had an OT bring joy out of doing things that were seemingly too simple to the point that he developed confidence. I kinda like the confident, upbeat thing personally. You already know that, being a therapist yourself. :biggrin:

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1 hour ago, FairProspects said:

He didn't get a dysgraphia diagnosis along with the dyslexia? What you are describing sounds a lot like red flags for dysgraphia and it often accompanies dyslexia. One of the best things we ever did was Read, Write, Type. It is a typing program that reinforces the phonics from an OG program while getting you around the hang up of dysgraphia. You can buy online licenses for a period of time.

I think she did say that, yes, that he got diagnosed with SLD Writing. I can tell the op that my ds, very similar age, writes single words and his IEP says that he should have a scribe for anything more than a sentence. For him, writing a sentence is a 20-40 minute gig. So to write two sentences literally would not be worth it. However, like I said, I can get single words out o him for spelling purposes using a whiteboard, yes. He's going to have a limit on that, but single words he can do. For pleasure, before the accursed OT came on the scene, he was actually writing more and it was all single word things, like lists and signs. Then Miss Draconian came in with her Now We Will Write and he totally clammed up. And what was he doing before? Spy missions with codes. I kid you not, all they did was stamp out codes and write letters to solve the codes, and he started writing joyfully. More is NOT MORE when it comes to handwriting.

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1 hour ago, Shellydon said:

I have done the CELF-5 and CASL-2 along with a subtest of the CASL-1.  The original CASL had a subtest that they did away with in the second version.  My company doesn't have the TNL or TILLS, so I haven't done those. I have given him pieces of the TOLD as well.  

For Spanish, it is minimal homework, 15-20 minutes a week and mostly just exposes him to the correct accent, so I think we'll stick it out.  I forsee us doing 1-2 hours of Barton 4 times a week right now.  He has 3 older siblings, so I am pulled in a lot of directions already. 

Our ps didn't have the TNL either, and after we came in with the results (6 subtests, blah blah), the SLP liked it so much she compelled the district to buy it for them. I'm looking forward to redoing our testing (SPELT and TNL) next spring and seeing what has improved. I'm not sure we'll be all the way there, but I'm excited. Given that he's getting an SLD Writing label, I'm surprised you're not looking at narrative language and organized intervention for that. The SLD Writing label means he has difficulties both with organizing the thoughts AND getting them on paper, yes? And my thought was that the TNL would give you standardized data and maybe bust through your familiarity with him and his style, etc. But me, I'm always looking for data anymore after three years of IEP fights.

I think your idea of using the spanish to focus on language, auditory, accent, etc. is fabulous. That's gonna be a lot of work! Are any of the older siblings needing some intervention too so that what you learn in Barton will carry over? 

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3 hours ago, FairProspects said:

He didn't get a dysgraphia diagnosis along with the dyslexia? What you are describing sounds a lot like red flags for dysgraphia and it often accompanies dyslexia. One of the best things we ever did was Read, Write, Type. It is a typing program that reinforces the phonics from an OG program while getting you around the hang up of dysgraphia. You can buy online licenses for a period of time.

Right now he only has a dyslexia label.  The LSSP that tested him said he did not show dysgraphia on her testing.  The Read, Write and Type program sounds great, I'll look it up.

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I thought I'd up date.  I got all of his testing numbers and his visual spatial IQ was 135. 

He finished Level 1 of Barton today, it took about a week.  I just ordered level 2.

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You go girl! And if you email/call Barton, she'll probably just let you return the level 1 for the level 2. She does that for people who complete it super fast. :)

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I was in your shoes a year ago. We hired a Barton tutor for 2x a week. She LOVES her tutor and has made leaps and bounds in her reading. For the past year we've demphasized any physical reading and turned to audio books. (because her interest level outstrips her skill level at the moment) She "reads" several books a week - we've got through Harry Potter, Percy Jackson, Spy School. She now has an unlimited budget for audio books. The second she says she wants to read a book, I immediately get the audio book into her hands. We have a Audible subscription, and Epic! subscription, and a Scribd subscription and we get audio books from the library. 

I wanted to start her on Latin, but our tutor said reading second language (where the same letters make different sounds) is incredibly difficult for dyslexics, and so pointed us to American Sign Language instead.

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10 minutes ago, showelott said:

She now has an unlimited budget for audio books.

You could apply for the National Library Service (BARD) and have unlimited access to audiobooks for free. :smile:

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