ByGrace3 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 I know this will obviously vary per child. . . however, I switched ds from MM to CLE this year mostly due to the fact I needed a break from the stress that was math. Little background-- ds struggles with sensory processing and gets anxious over performance. The multi level thinking of MM (which I love) was a daily battle for this very smart and math intuitive kid. I felt he needed more review and we switched after MM5 to CLE 6. The switch has been rather seamless. He is doing GREAT. I rarely have to help. In fact, I am feeling a little guilty that I am doing practically nothing. Am I doing this wrong? I know back in our Saxon days if we had not used the teachers guide we would be skipping half the program . . . is something like that the case here? Should I be doing more? Enjoy the break? Step up and do more? I am enjoying the break, not gonna lie. Math had been such a struggle for so long. . . Also, I am having him check his own work. Which I have never done before. Ever. But I was facing burn out and am trying to back off a bit and give us some space to enjoy some aspects of school this year-- which we are. Maybe that is my concern...it's going too well, we must be doing it wrong??!! ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristin0713 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 My DD is doing CLE 7. If she reads and understands the new content, I don't need to help her. Then throughout the very thorough review, she does it all independently unless she gets stuck and forgets something. The new content is in such small bites that she has really been doing great on her own. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 It really can go that smoothly! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Lynn Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 On average, I would say no, it shouldn't be completely independent. However, I feel like I know you, your work ethic, and your standard of excellence - given that background and what you wrote above I think it can be okay for a season. Are you grading his tests to be sure he is learning and retaining? Are you checking behind him sometimes? He is probably very conscientious and I would not suspect any foul play with him checking his own work, but it's still good to have some accountability, iykwim. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByGrace3 Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Another Lynn said: On average, I would say no, it shouldn't be completely independent. However, I feel like I know you, your work ethic, and your standard of excellence - given that background and what you wrote above I think it can be okay for a season. Are you grading his tests to be sure he is learning and retaining? Are you checking behind him sometimes? He is probably very conscientious and I would not suspect any foul play with him checking his own work, but it's still good to have some accountability, iykwim. Yes, Tests are taken with me and I grade them. I do spot check occasionally, and every once in awhile he will ask for help, just not very often. I very much see this as a season. He will take Pre-algebra next year online with either Mr D or DO . . . He is a super honest kid and often does math where I can see him, so I know nothing like copying answers is happening. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Lynn Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 23 minutes ago, ByGrace3 said: Yes, Tests are taken with me and I grade them. I do spot check occasionally, and every once in awhile he will ask for help, just not very often. I very much see this as a season. He will take Pre-algebra next year online with either Mr D or DO . . . He is a super honest kid and often does math where I can see him, so I know nothing like copying answers is happening. Sounds good! Now, if there was something that worked like this for writing! ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Not commenting on CLE, but I would not leave an 11 yr old to grade their own work. It is really just not fair to the student. On top of increasing their workload (they have to do the work and take the time to grade it), it also places them in the tempting position of cheating, even super honest kids. It may not be in form of copying, but maybe they are tired and got something wrong. It can be very tempting to erase and write down the correct answer or not grade thoroughly and just grade random questions or not mark answers wrong in the first place. It is really just an unfair expectation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 2 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said: Not commenting on CLE, but I would not leave an 11 yr old to grade their own work. It is really just not fair to the student. On top of increasing their workload (they have to do the work and take the time to grade it), it also places them in the tempting position of cheating, even super honest kids. It may not be in form of copying, but maybe they are tired and got something wrong. It can be very tempting to erase and write down the correct answer or not grade thoroughly and just grade random questions or not mark answers wrong in the first place. It is really just an unfair expectation. She grades the tests. Unless she has a rule of redoing every incorrect problem, I don't see much motivation to mark wrong answers on daily work as correct. I mean, if my kids were tried and got something wrong, the result would be the same regardless of who graded it - oh, that was a silly mistake, but I got the others right and understand the concept. They only redid problems when they got a certain percentage wrong. If he is doing well on the tests, then he is either doing the daily work or doesn't need the daily work. I'm not nice enough to worry that grading CLE 6 math is adding to their workload, lol. It cannot possibly take very long. I don't think it will do him any harm for a few months or a school year. It sounds like the positives outweigh the negatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freesia Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 I wouldn't let it go on too long, honestly. The folks I've known who've done this (or gotten behind on grading themselves) have all had problems. One, who got behind on grading herself, didn't know that her dd had completely hit a wall in long division and they had to back track a lot. Another one's "honest" dd succumbed to temptation and just put 100% on each homework after a while. This temptation in good honest kids is most likely to happen when they are having trouble with some concept. They may also look at the answer and say--oh, I have it now, but they don't. Folks who use TT with self-grading where the child is given 2 chances run into this, too. In general, I feel that math needs to be taught daily to children until at least high school and grading needs to be done by the "teacher" so problems can be caught early (and so any "self-teaching" or online or TT highschoolers can have a live person step in and teach what ever concept is giving them difficulty.) But this isn't to say that doing it for a while to catch a breath for yourself is doomed, at all. I am just encouraging you to have it be a short term solution. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mona Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 We used CLE Math for many years in elementary. As long as you grade the quizzes and tests, you will be fine. If you are doing a lesson a day then there would be a quiz a week and a test the 3rd week. The quizzes will allow you to see if your son comprehends the information he's been learning before he gets to the LU test. You can take that opportunity to review anything missed. My son loved that he could move along at his own pace. My daughter needed more help with math, and I sat with her for the new material of each lesson to get her started. If he works well independently then yeah, it's that easy. Also, I didn't do any timed drills with my son. He did the drills, but I just didn't time him. Also, we didn't skip problems. If you were to continue with CLE after this year, I would suggest adding some sort of more challenging story problem practice. They only offer 2-4 per lesson, and we could have used more practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syllieann Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 2 hours ago, katilac said: She grades the tests. Unless she has a rule of redoing every incorrect problem, I don't see much motivation to mark wrong answers on daily work as correct. I mean, if my kids were tried and got something wrong, the result would be the same regardless of who graded it - oh, that was a silly mistake, but I got the others right and understand the concept. They only redid problems when they got a certain percentage wrong. If he is doing well on the tests, then he is either doing the daily work or doesn't need the daily work. I'm not nice enough to worry that grading CLE 6 math is adding to their workload, lol. It cannot possibly take very long. I don't think it will do him any harm for a few months or a school year. It sounds like the positives outweigh the negatives. The answers to the tests and quizzes are right in with the answers for all the other lessons. It could be very tempting to glance at the answers for a section that he’s shaky on before taking the quiz or test. It is literally going to be on the page that is already open if he is checking his lesson the day before. I would personally not feel secure that good grades on tests and quizzes meant understanding in this situation, nor would I want to repeatedly put a child into such a tempting situation. I would either completely skip grading the daily work so that he doesn’t need the TM, or do parent-graded daily work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 I would assume that most of what he's encountering right now is review. I agree with the posters who said they wouldn't have their younger kids self-grading daily work all the time. (I do get the burnout on checking math homework.) CLE is meant to be more independent at that level than you might be used to, but not completely independent. I'd slowly get more involved in grading the daily work, personally, as you feel like you can handle it. And, don't be surprised if he does encounter some more new material eventually. (Although, it is possible MM5 covered 75%+ of CLE6's material. I haven't examined both side-by-side.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 3 hours ago, freesia said: I wouldn't let it go on too long, honestly. The folks I've known who've done this (or gotten behind on grading themselves) have all had problems. One, who got behind on grading herself, didn't know that her dd had completely hit a wall in long division and they had to back track a lot. Another one's "honest" dd succumbed to temptation and just put 100% on each homework after a while. This temptation in good honest kids is most likely to happen when they are having trouble with some concept. They may also look at the answer and say--oh, I have it now, but they don't. Folks who use TT with self-grading where the child is given 2 chances run into this, too. In general, I feel that math needs to be taught daily to children until at least high school and grading needs to be done by the "teacher" so problems can be caught early (and so any "self-teaching" or online or TT highschoolers can have a live person step in and teach what ever concept is giving them difficulty.) But this isn't to say that doing it for a while to catch a breath for yourself is doomed, at all. I am just encouraging you to have it be a short term solution. OK this was me when I got a little bit too relaxed when my eldest was in sixth grade. He seemed to get things so easily... that I just kind of trusted that he got it. (We were doing MM6.) Anyhow....we had to go back and re-do exponents and a few other things. Oops! Lesson learned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 20 hours ago, Another Lynn said: On average, I would say no, it shouldn't be completely independent. However, I feel like I know you, your work ethic, and your standard of excellence - given that background and what you wrote above I think it can be okay for a season. Are you grading his tests to be sure he is learning and retaining? Are you checking behind him sometimes? He is probably very conscientious and I would not suspect any foul play with him checking his own work, but it's still good to have some accountability, iykwim. I completely agree with this. Like others, I'd be cautious about having him grade his own work. It sounds like you are already on top of that, so I'd go ahead and enjoy this break! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clemsondana Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 You might also try checking your son's math by having him call out the answers. I do this with my older, so that I have an idea of how he's doing and can catch mistakes, but it takes only a few minutes for him to read the list of answers to me while i follow in the answer key. He circles anything that he misses so that he/we can go back and take a look to see what's wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrissiK Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 We do CLE math, and I agree with Lynn, it can be mostly independent. But the lessons are so short and to the point, that even if you went over the lesson (new material) daily it shouldn’t take more than 5-10 minutes of your time. Otherwise, keeping track of learning and progress by grading tests and quizzes does need to be done by you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 15 hours ago, Syllieann said: The answers to the tests and quizzes are right in with the answers for all the other lessons. It could be very tempting to glance at the answers for a section that he’s shaky on before taking the quiz or test. It is literally going to be on the page that is already open if he is checking his lesson the day before. That does change my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 16 hours ago, Syllieann said: The answers to the tests and quizzes are right in with the answers for all the other lessons. It could be very tempting to glance at the answers for a section that he’s shaky on before taking the quiz or test. It is literally going to be on the page that is already open if he is checking his lesson the day before. I would personally not feel secure that good grades on tests and quizzes meant understanding in this situation, nor would I want to repeatedly put a child into such a tempting situation. I would either completely skip grading the daily work so that he doesn’t need the TM, or do parent-graded daily work. It actually depends. If the OP is using the answer key, the tests are in a separate section. They also only have the answer, so there would be no way to check a particular section. Unless you had the test in hand, it would be virtually impossible to use them to cheat. Now you are right about the teacher guides. It just depends which one the OP is using. The teacher guides aren't really necessary past 3rd grade, fwiw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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